People often compare Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker to former Minnesota Governor Tim Pawlenty. Geographical proximity probably explains most of this, but the two men are both notoriously lacking in charisma. They look good as presidential candidates on paper, but that doesn’t mean that they have the political touch to connect with voters. Obviously, Pawlenty’s presidential campaign completely flopped, so one can be forgiven for wondering if the same fate awaits Governor Walker.
I suppose it’s possible, but no matter how hard the establishment media try to fluff Jeb Bush, there seems to be an enormous appetite among the Republican base for someone else.
In one sense, this seems to happen every time. Poppy Bush had to put up with Pat Buchanan and Ross Perot. The base never got enthusiastic about Bob Dole. By 2008, the base was positively hostile to John McCain whose campaign experienced a near death before rebounding. And pretty much every alternative to Mitt Romney was given a brief road test before all were found wanting. When Rick Santorum was still cleaning Romney’s clock in some states late in the game, that was all you needed to know about the base’s true feelings about Mitt.
Perhaps this pattern will repeat itself and Jeb will eventually emerge as the nominee. I’ve certainly felt like this was the most likely outcome for almost eight years now. I have never been able to imagine any Republican nominee other than Jeb, simply because no else has the chops.
But I’m not convinced that Scott Walker can’t pull it off for the simple reason that a two-term governor of a Blue State is a whole lot more plausible as presidential candidate than a disgraced former Speaker of the House (Newt Gingrich) or a backbench member of the House (Ron Paul, Michele Bachmann) or an unpopular former senator (Rick Santorum) or a clueless red state governor (Rick Perry) or a businessman with no political experience and a record of serial sexual harassment (Herman Cain).
There was another candidate in 2012, and that was former Utah Governor Jon Huntsman, Jr. He, more than any other candidate, most closely resembled Jeb Bush. It’s true that he came from a red state, but he was pitching himself as a moderate who was opposed to the emerging Tea Party flavor of the GOP. He was good looking, had a nice family, all the credentials you could want, including serving as ambassador to China (like Poppy Bush) during the Obama administration. But the base wanted no part of Huntsman and the establishment was happy enough with Romney. Huntsman’s campaign went nowhere.
Jeb isn’t going to go out like Huntsman, but they’re similar enough to make me wonder if Jeb can really beat someone like Walker if the two are matched up one-on-one.
Despite all their spittle, Republican primary voters have historically placed a very high premium on perceived electability. Every time the Republicans lose (Dole, McCain, Romney), the base complains that it turned out that the “electable” candidate wasn’t so electable after all. But that doesn’t change the historical pattern. If Jeb can convince people that he’s got a shot at beating Hillary and that Walker simply doesn’t, he may be able to win. But if the polls don’t back him on that or show him with any particular advantage, then Bush’s best hope is that there are multiple candidates running strong enough to divide up the opposition to his campaign.
If Mike Huckabee, for example, were to win throughout the South, or if Ohio Governor John Kasich were to split the blue state governor bloc by trading some midwestern states with Walker, then Bush might be able to eek out a delegate war.
What I think will happen, though, is that it will come down to a Walker-Bush race. And, as charismatically challenged as Scott Walker is, I don’t think he’ll have to show all that much to win that kind of showdown.
The caveats here are that Walker will never be able to compete with Jeb in his preparedness for the job, and that will show in all kinds of ways, particularly in debates and interviews with the press on foreign policy. There are also skeletons in Walkers closet that could jump out and finish his chances. I think that’s somewhat true of Jeb, too, though.
I didn’t expect to feel this way, but I do now believe that Walker is the most likely alternative to Jeb, and that he has a real shot of pulling it off.
I wonder of Jeb would help unite the party and accept the second slot on the ticket, like his father did way back in 1980?
Didn’t we see this post before?
No Jeb will not take #2, but Walker may well. I see that as a real possibility, Walker as Veep to placate the Tea Party. Our oligarchs won’t object to the union buster as #2 either.
Wisconsin is no longer Blue. Not since the heavy industry was moved to China.
Why was the presidential D vote larger in 2012, 2008, and 2004 than it was in 2000?
And the House delegation has been ping-ponging from 5/4 to 4/5 for over a decade.
So when did all the jobs move to China?
After the WTO treaty. Southern Wisconsin is like a ghost town. Hmmm! That’s over a decade.
Take away Chicago and Illinois is Indiana.
Take away Detroit and Michigan is Indiana.
Take away Milwaukee and Wisconsin is Indiana.
In case you haven’t noticed (I have) Illinois is also drifting Rightwards.
Wisconsin hasn’t voted for a Republican for president since 1984.
When was WTO, again?
That is an argument for why a thrice-elected native son makes sense at the top of the ticket.
And to the insight that Detroit, Chicago, and Milwaukee have held their states in the blue column until recently, Walker has shut down Milwaukee’s power to put Dems over the top, Snyder has carpet-bombed Detroit, and Rahm has destroyed the Dem brand in Chicago. It is the same dynamic that gutted North Carolina as a mildly progressive Democratic state. And it has become institutionally hardened in order to create permanent dominance.
Democrats are in deep trouble nationally, and they are still in denial in thinking that electing Hillary Clinton will magically bail them out.
And there are political forces to the right of Walker and his big business cronies. And they are being empowered by the media and becoming gradually legitimized. They become Scott Walker’s right wing, replacing the Tea Party that becomes the “centrists”.
The problem is not that Democrats no longer have strong support in places like the Piedmont small counties of North Carolina. The problem is that the Democratic brand has become toxic so that Democrats no longer have the opportunity to persuade voters. It is the increasing polarization of politics as sport. It is also the unceasing social pressure that Republicans put on their personal networks.
you could pretty much say this about any election.
In his book on the 1060 election, Theodore White goes through the results, noting Kennedy was dependent on the large cities (Philly, Chicago, New York, Cleveland) to win.
Rahm has so destroyed the brand in Chicago he is close to 50%.
NC was a mildy progressive state as long as race wasn’t discussed. Where did the white hand ad run again? Oh, NC.
43% in the poll I saw on WGN the other day.
IL isn’t drifting rightward, what do you base that on? One governor race? We still won every other state wide race and kept big majorities in the Assembly.
Rahm Emanuel. Pat Quinn. What is the legislature going to let Rauner “accomplish”?
Pat Quinn wasn’t a bad governor, just a bad politician and Rahm is Rahm. Chicago is pretty Democratic (the actual base of the party) and they seem to like him fine.
Rauner is sinking pretty fast already and his proposed budget today is probably going to cost him even more support.
Chicago likes Rahm fine? Really? Is that why Karen Lewis would have kicked his ass if she didn’t have to bow out of the Mayoral race for health reasons?
I’m not saying he’s a ray of sunshine but he’s not any better or worse than any other mayor Chicago has had
Big Bill Thompson, Martin Kennely, Richard Daley I & II, Jane Byrne, Michael Bilandic. That’s not saying much.
and none of them hurt the Democratic brand in the state so maybe we can back off the panic button a little
Remember the derision the Bushies had for the BUG Exterminator from Texas.
You think Pappy, Babs, and King George would allow a BUSH to be under a College Dropout, after all the money the Bush’s wasted on their Ivy League Educations, that produced STRATEGERY!
I guess I’ll have to give up dairy products for the duation of the cycle, since any mention of the Wisconsin guv’s name curdles them in my system – somthing like this.
Walker is the guy who scares me. Of course Huntsman was the guy who most scared me last time around (with Romney a distant second). What scares me about Walker is that he might be able to convince low information voters he’s moderate and presidential.
Unlike Huntsman, Walker won’t run as a moderate. To get through the primaries, he’ll assert his caveman status and, at the same time, his electability, having served in a blue state. It’s tough to pull off that kind of whitewash when you’ve got a clear record to exploit and the electoral deck is stacked against you. Demographics have resulted in a playing field far less favorable to contemporary Republicans than it was to Reagan or GHW Bush.
Still, it worries me because Americans are so stupid. Hillary has vulnerabilities. The least of these is that she does not excite the base. Worst is simply that she’s a woman (and an old one to boot). Generally in politics, but exponentially more so at the presidential level, people are seeking an alpha. Primitive parts of our brains want an emperor, a strong man, someone who will protect us from evil. The country pretty much always goes for the alpha. Recall how silly Dukakis seemed, standing on a box at the debates and in his tank helmet. Recall too how effectively Obama used his physicality during the debates to make war-hero McCain look old and weak. (Romney screwed himself by coming off as such a doofus.)
I imagine a Hillary vs. Walker campaign as one in which new states would not be put into play but it would be impossible to rule out the Republican pulling off the inside straight.
Hillary is more of a Man than Jeb and I mean that positively not negatively. Walker is a cockroach.
say she does not excite the base? I really haven’t seen that in polling evidence.
Maybe among bloggers but beyond that group I just don’t see the lack of excitement.
It’s all over the comments sections of progressive blogs. It must be true.
Don’t take my word for it, take former president Dean’s word for it.
Definitely agree that Walker is the candidate who is most likely to emerge as a credible alternative to Bush. This is partially because I believe that Jeb won’t fully consolidate Republican establishment support, and Walker has a shot at attracting a substantial portion of the $$ and institutional support that doesn’t flow to Bush (most likely from the Koch network). Walker is a candidate who can attract both Republican institutional support and conservative activist/grassroots support.
As for Veep, I’m pretty sure that Jeb (and family) wouldn’t go for it. Entitlement is the primary rationale for another Bush candidacy, and I can’t see the point of “settling” for VP. (Although if this were to happen, I think it’d be more like Cheney’s consigliere role for W than HW’s “unite the party” role for Reagan.) Rubio seems more likely for Veep, and not just for Walker – he could fit in the VP slot for any non-Bush ticket. In fact, I’m not sure why Rubio still seems intent on running in 2016, if not for a VP slot (and a leg up for 2020 or 2024…)
Anyhoo – glad to see I’m not the only one taking Walker’s candidacy seriously. And it’s pretty scary, since he’s basically Sarah Palin with experience getting re-elected. I thought we had a whole system in place to keep people like him from being elected President 😉
Hope your instincts are right about shark-eye Walker, as I see him as easily more beatable in the general, largely for personality reasons, than the Jebster.
The Jeb-Huntsman comparison is a bit off however. Huntsman, by accepting O’s offer of the ambassadorship, committed an unforgivable sin in the eyes of most Goopers. In addition, he was already seen as, and showed himself to be in the primaries to be far more of a soft moderate than 98% of GOP primary voters could stomach. Practically one of those Librul Democrat Marxist Commies. Not so the Jebster who represents for them a mostly acceptable small-c type of conservatism.
Jeb is also twice as ambitious, twice as aggressive and twice as politically savvy as Huntsman. Ditto compared to Walker probably. Certainly twice as savvy in terms of how to run a political campaign on the national stage.
I think Jeb will quietly make peace with the far right of his party, the TPers and religious wackos, much as his idiot brother did behind the scenes in the 2000 campaign cycle. Offer them at least one of the first two Court picks, and promise to get their OK on the other. He’s already grabbing most of the $ needed to campaign as a juggernaught force. The MSM will once again be brought into the Bush tent to cover for his many shortcomings, a huge advantage in both the primaries and general.
I hope I’m wrong. A third Bush presidency will be a disaster for this country — probably another major US military blunder into the ME, perhaps trying to take on ISIS with another Bush-crafted “coalition of the willing” led by too many American soldiers.
I just can’t see Walker beating Bush, so the offer of a VP slot just doesn’t compute with me.
Walker will be Jeb’s Dan Quayle. I cannot see Walker in the second chair if we put boots on the ground to fight ISIS. How is Walker any more prepared to be Commander in Chief than Palin? The VP will be one of the neocons…Bolton.
I wouldn’t underestimate the Bush crime family so casually. They will destroy Walker before he gets the nomination. His political career will be left as mincemeat as an example to the others. He’s a lightweight fighting way above his class here.
Well, if Walker makes the mistake of winning an early primary/caucus, as McCain did in 2000, the family hit-squad apparatus will go into overdrive to hit him hard, and low, by the time of the SC primary probably, assuming that’s still an early one. Not quite a Mafia hit though — they’ll leave enough remaining of Walker just in case they need him for the #2 slot.
I wonder if they’ll come up with a black kid by Walker?
Bush in the #2 slot might be of use to the BCF if it appears easier to get through the election stages
Like you I don’t underestimate the Crime Family either.
After all, they dispensed with Willard, who thought he was ENTITLED to be President.
for that reason looks to me like they’re playing serious hardball this round.
In a way, there is a similarity between the Clinton ’08 run and the Bush ’16 run. Clinton’s numbers in Iowa were never very good for a front runner, and Bush’s numbers in Iowa and NH are worse. I always thought at bottom there was resistance among the rank and file to Clinton, I think the same things exists for Bush.
Bush may overcome it. But I doubt it.
Keep in mind that Walker has a long history of grift and penny-ante corruption and cronyism and a bunch of convicted former associates (including one who went to jail for stealing from a fund meant to send the children of veterans to the zoo); any oppo research outfit worthy anything will be able to make him look bad in about 10 seconds. He also will struggle when he’s outside the cradle of the lap-dog Wisconsin press.
Why has he survived in Wisconsin. Are the Wisconsin Dems incapable of opposition research?
My sense is that he is as slippery as W was. All the opposition research gets drowned in a he said-she said frame in the media. And overwhelming saturation advertising.
Likely he’s no more corrupt than the Kochs who fund him. But make it stick to any of them? That’s where Dems are vulnerable because of their own mushiness.
Why has he survived in Wisconsin. Are the Wisconsin Dems incapable of opposition research?
Why? Because the state party, like most Democratic state parties, are afraid of standing up for unions and generally being like Elizabeth Warren. Look at Barnett and Burke. Neither backed repealing Act 10, did they?
In other words, mushiness.
him. And they protested the right to work legislation.
I don’t think that is close to correct.
“Likely he’s no more corrupt than the Kochs who fund him.”
In other words, extremely corrupt. but I think you just said the magic phrase: “The Kochs who fund him”.
Walker vs Bush is really Kochs vs Bush and that means a fight for the soul, for want of a better word, of the Republican Party. Wih the Kochs behind him (as they have always been), Walker is not the lightweight he may appear.
“… and that means a fight for the
soulblack heart, …”Kochs vs ??? who is backing Bush. But yes, very interesting how this will play out. Also who is Edelson backing?
I suppose he’ll back both of them, but I think he’d prefer Jeb.
This article is almost a year old, but it may be relevant:
http://www.thenation.com/blog/178997/jeb-bush-chris-christie-and-sheldon-adelson-primary#
And yet, Walker has done nothing but crush liberals in a supposedly “blue state” for half a decade while governing in a hard right manner. If you read Daily Kos you will see a huge torrent of diaries about some new “scandal” that is finally going to “bring down” Scott Walker but every single one has barely touched him.
To the base, this sends the message as electable as Jeb but with the right stuff. Scott Walker is the one to stop at all costs.
Well, Palin crushed Democrats and Republicans in Alaska. Only lasted two weeks on the national political stage as the rising GOP star before her stupidity began to dull her glow.
Uh, how is Wisconsin comparable to Alaska in this statement?
Because the local politics are unknown to voters in other states — and usually not even well known within a state. For example, how many people outside TX even today know that the Governor of Texas is vested with few powers?
Walker exists in a bubble with a local media apparatus almost exclusively controlled by conservatives and Republicans. National TV — for better and worse — is a different arena. For example, Elizabeth Warren did well enough on TV in MA to beat Brown but not by all that much. Yet on national TV she rocks.
Walker is neither slick nor charismatic. The little bubble above his head reading “duh” should become apparent soon after he makes a few national appearances.
Jeb Bungles Facts, Pronunciation in His Big National Security Speech
Can we put “Beau-coup Haram” up there with “choots-pah”?
I’m sure the world can’t wait for “liberty democracy” from Jeb! to replace whatever it was that his big bro dished out for eight years.
Just great — the second coming of Reagan. Still ascending to the heights of global domination.
Remember, Jeb is the smart one. Oh. Wait.
We’d have to compare his statements with that of his big bro in early 1999 before answering that question. Easy to forget just how ignorant GWB was before he got better speechwriters and teleprompters.
GWB is a better bullshitter than Jeb! More glib because he had no intellectual pretensions or insecurities about his profound knowledge and logic deficits. Like those that proudly waved their homemade signs saying “keep government out of my Social Security” and “get a clue morans.”
If Walker runs, the dems should film a lot of political ads from Minnesota. our current unemployment rate in Minneapolis is 3.1% (!) vs Milwaukee 7.2%.
Love Minneapolis, it’s such a clean city with dwellers who have their heads screwed on straight. I’d move there except for the Winters and Summers. I love visiting in Spring and Fall, however.
waiting for Joni Ernst for vp candidate