CHUM 1 “ch um” informal, noun: a poster that seeks out controversial diaries or comments in order to make inflammatory statements and then troll rate anyone who stands up to them. Often seen impersonating a Progressive, they can be found in packs, usualy kissing each other’s rectums and convincing themselves that they are not acting like a NeoCon. CHUMS are well known for being given a tiny amount of power only to abuse it on a consistent basis.
Well, the abusive CHUMs at DKos have managed to troll me right out of there. At least it appears that way. I can’t edit my own diaries or post comments. BooHooHoo. I’m curious to know from the users here if many have had the same experience when they’ve stood up to the small group that seems to feel they can do as they please because they have the power (virtual though it may be) to troll rate. I don’t care about not being there, I was rarely there as it was and so lost my Trusted User Status. But I have noticed a pattern from my first days. Someone posts a comment or a diary that people don’t like. Not one that could be considered trollish as defined by Dkos, and then the CHUMs show up. These are those on DKos that are the true trolls. They troll around and seem to gravitate toward the diaries that are getting the most hits, most often than not because of a flame war created by these same sycophants.
They then make childish remarks and sometimes call you a name. They more often than not ALWAYS throw the first punch. When you stand up to them, they circle like a pack of wolves and move in. The sad part is that most of them can’t even hold a decent argument nor do they write well enough to contribute to an elementary school newspaper much less a nationally recognized political blog. I’ve noticed certain traits among them.
One is that they almost never provide the person they’re trolling with a substantive argument and then, when that person has grown tired of their banal arguments and boils it down to a very truthful “You’re an asshole” they go nuts, and accuse you of behaving exactly as they have been behaving all along.
Second is that they are very narcissistic. They will never attempt at a reconciliation because to them, it is war. If you attack in kind, you are always wrong. If you post about what a hypocritical ass they are, you get hit with lame recipes and more name calling. usually a lot of comments about you whining which, of course, is exactly what they’ve been doing all along themselves.
Third is that the almost always abuse the user definitions of what a troll rating is and then ignore ones rebuttal completely. It’s the hall mark of a sociopath to, when caught in a lie, go right one with what ever they’re doing and not blink an eye. No remorse, never wrong. I’m not saying they are sociopaths, but there are similarities.
The most striking thing is that they act EXACTLY like the NeoCons; to the letter. If you say that, then look out because how dare you call them on it. It must be hard to run around in the guise of a Progressive yet act like a NeoCon. Attack with out substance and then blame who ever they’ve attacked for the attack, and then punish those who speak truth to (perceived) power.
They are a real piece of work and a blister on the landscape of progressive thought. How can one call oneself a progressive only to then stifle others from their opinions and, in the process, consistently abuse what little power you have been given in trust to keep the community open to ideas and discourse, even if you don’t like what is being said?
As long as there is a substantive argument, how can it be bad? That’s a lot different than someone simply responding “you suck” which, if that were the comment in and of itself, not one brought on by being pushed in that direction by a CHUM or having been troll rated inappropriately, then a troll rating is what would be deserved.
I think DK undermines its status (not to mention its membership) when they ban people without warning, without a second chance, especially when they are clearly not Republican trolls, but in many cases, lifelong Democratic activists. If it makes you feel any less alone – you can read the diary I wrote when I was banned here.
I did not get banned, but I left cause I did not like what I was reading or who was saying stuff that was really hurting others. I find I like it way too much here to leave unless of course I am a prick which is the only rule I know of that we must not abuse. I am sorry for your abuse over at orange. I find a lot of interesting diaries to read there. I do not read comments. My time is way to precious to waste with comments there. So welcome and stay as far as I am concerned. Just do not be a prick, the only rule not to break.
I am a grandmother and I do find ppl are too young sometimes to understand where I may be coming from, but I thrive on others opinions that I value. I am here to learn for the most part. So if you are smart and have lots of things of interest to post for us to read, go ahead. If you are here to stir shit, forget it. I do not like this kind of thing. I have to work with this crap daily and can do without it here. Otherwise, welcome.
I am not sure if the more established users on there are organised but there are certainly informal packs of the same TUs troll rating the same posts. I actually manage to loose my TU status a few days ago through the cumulative TRs on comments I made on my own diary.
There are very contentious subjects where if you challenge the accepted orthodoxy you put yourself at risk. One is Israel/Palestine where you could observe that a lot of thinking had been influenced by the cumulative pro-Israeli media (and I am thinking everything from the film “Exodus” to the presentation of news on TV) What a loose collection of about a dozen people would do is TR the same posts and uprate frivel from others in the collection. The situation got a bit better when DK changed the rules to only allow a fixed number of TRs per person.
One rather funny thing happened over the last week. I questioned why, uniquely, the US is demanding that the situation in Darfur be treated as Genocide in the context of the Convention as it has a very specific set of conditions to meet, including intent. I defended the UN position that so far the intent condition had not been met, even if the Crimes Against Humanity were among the moste heinous. This was prompted by my observation that throughout the Lebanon war there had been a string of “but what about Darfur then?” comments from many on DK and Israeli government spokesmen were using it.
Ironically then someone posted a diary on Gaza calling for Israel’s actions to be prosecuted as Genocide. I then made exactly the same point – the War Crimes may be heinous but the required intent was probably not present or proveable. One of the “usual suspects” had even linked to my own Darfur diary with the same purpose and had the cheek to not make a comment on my diary, rate a tip jar or recommend the diary.
I’ll post the same thing I did over at MyDD: you sound very bitter, and I don’t really care whether or not you like dKos or not. It’s not everyone’s cup of tea – even I get tired of it occasionally – but it’d be best if you actually gave background as to why you got banned. Telling only your side of the story, with no reference, won’t get you very far.
By the way, thanks for the troll rating. I know a lot of folks here don’t like dKos for one reason or another, but I’d like to hear why he’s upset. A rant against the Orange Place without any real reasoning or proof isn’t something I’m fond of.
I took away the troll rating for you. Much more than you, or most others, would have done for me at Dkos, I’m sure. You’re welcome in advance.
A Patriot, we welcome you here if you like to engage in reasoned, supported discussions. We also like an occasional rant, as we all have to blow off steam from time to time. However, I will transmit the wisdom of one commenter to my first diary here at Booman Tribune over a year ago that this is its own place, with its own values, and that we are here to do better things than to analyze or bash DKos.
I understand completely where you are coming from, though I chose to leave the orange place of my own accord. My first diary here was about what was happening over there, and I quickly learned that the best thing to do is just walk away from that place, be glad that I have a better community here to participate in, and try to contribute positively to Booman Tribune.
Welcome to the club. I got banned from Kos simply for one reason, my strong support for Lieberman. Seems D-Kos can dish it out, but can’t take it.
I appreciate the well thought out and sincere comments. Even PsiFighter37’s, except it’s very CHUMish in it’s desire to have me prove why I got booted, which isn’t the point of the diary at all. Please do not troll rate him though as he at least was polite.
No one here would ever troll rate PsiFighter except if some impostor stole his password and posted something that PsiFighter would never say, so, not to worry.
Btw, we have been fighting troll attacks around here lately so we’re a bit testy about new folks who show up to complain about something…. This doesn’t mean you aren’t welcome to have a rant diary from time to time, but please don’t abuse the privilege.
Plus, if you haven’t noticed yet, it is a sort of community decision/tradition that we either give a four or nothing at all. We only break that informal rule on the rare occasion that we have someone go loopy or we are infiltrated by a real troll, so please keep that in mind for the future. Please note, also for future reference, that we have a two diary per day per person rule, so as to share the space equitably with our fellow bloggers.
I thought that PsiFighter’s comment might have been stated a bit harshly, but I agree with his idea that claims of unfairness should generally be supported with evidence. However, the oldtimers here are more used to having to greet folks who are fleeing from that other place and I think we are generally willing to grudgingly accept a first diary rant about why you felt the need to leave there or were booted off. However, as I said above, I think it is best to move on from that and try to make a positive contribution to whatever new community(ies) you may find yourself participating in. We are not a blog-bashing blog, whether that be DKos or some other blog…
I welcome you once again. 🙂
Hmmm, I was apparently incorrect about my assumption that no one would troll rate PsiFighter… I don’t agree with the rating, but I can understand objecting to his tone. It seems to me that it would be better to leave a comment for a valuable contributor like PsiFighter rather than troll-rating him with no further comment. He is obviously not a troll and anyone who would rate him as such is not paying attention to his body of work.
That is what my diary(ies) and my rant(s) has(have) ever been about. NOT troll rating someone because you don’t agree with what they say. While I think his comment was not in the l;east substantive and seemed to be borderline CHUMish, I respect his opinion and can’t ever try to present my point of view by just saying “fuck you.” All the times I’ve been troll rated has been about me expressing myself in a substantive way even if it was a rant. The reason I got banned was that one CHUM troll rated me for my comment without posting anything. I told that person to get screwed and I was turned into the bad guy. Now, I’ll be the first to agree that i posted a graphic making a jab (no pun intended) at Steve Irwin, but it was meant to piss of the CHUM, not degrade Irwin. I later deleted it because I agreed with SeattleLiberal (whom I finally had a grown up conversation with) that it should go. Now, the funny thing is that, then next day Kos posted a front page about irwin which got a lot of play. I posted and then the troll rating began. I didn’t back down and would do it all over again if I had the chance. The funniest part is that your considered dumb, or odd if you don’t acquiesce to the CHUM and their power trips. That’s not the type of people I want to be around at all. SeattleLiberal, while I have nothing against him, really did nothing to help me out except to scold me for standing up for myself. Nothing said about the CHUM, which I find sad, yet understandable if one wants to remain on DKos and not be considered a troll. As to abusing my Ranting privileged, I won’t do that. I like to post informative diaries or things I think may be of interest to the group as a whole. I will also not hesitate to post my opinions if I see bullshit happening, that’s for sure. So, thanks all for welcoming me and I look forward to being a productive member. PS. Pass the word to the CHUM at Dkos that I’m here if they ever care to come and challenge me on equal footing. I bet not a one will show up and admit who they are.
it’s a pattern. We know it. Vent.
And then unvent and relax and go check out a Froggy Bottom Cafe or Lounge.
Thanks. I will when I have more time!
Welcome to the Frog Pond.
Thanks for giving me one good laugh for the day. No, not laughing at you or your circumstance with DK, but the idea that you expressed DK as being “a progressive” site.
Ha! And not hardly! If you ever read Kos and his many statements of same, he is NOT a progressive, nor does he want his site to be associated with those “types.”
Many of us here are familiar with the things you mention. No need to trumpet loudly and often. We know. We only troll rate trolls here, or those behaving in a trollish way. . .it is something that VERY SELDOM happens here. We also don’t care for yelling, fist thumping and foot stamping. . .if you have a reasoned discussion you want to have, have at it. If any disagree and cannot find a place of agreement, then agree to disagree. Have civil discussion or please move on from here. As long as we say what we have to say as fairly reasonable adults, everyone welcomes us here.
We don’t bash other Blogs or bloggers here. We look at you for what you present to us. Everything flows from there.
I think I’m going to enjoy it here. Wow! People who think and act like me. My philosophy is simple. Push me, I push back. I LOVE a great argument and do not have problem admitting when I am wrong. But, the obvious BS is just that. BTW, I do like to word CHUM. Please feel free to use it as my idea of a troll is someone who is on the right, trying to break the ranks. Those within, are worse. At least the NeoCons tell you what they are.
…your contretemps at DKos until I read your Diary, although I have occasionally seen your comments there.
I have mixed feelings about Troll-Ratings – I think they are often abused, including by people I agree with politically; I hand out Troll-Ratings very rarely, and on those rare occasions when I’ve have given a zero, it may go to a long-term, well-known user (like Armando) as well as to some interloper like, say, BushisgreatDemocratssuck. I have strong feelings that people should be banned from ANY site only for the most egregious of offenses.
Now that I have read your Troll-Rated comments at DKos, I can say that I don’t think you should have been banned. While I disagreed with your comment for which you were first Troll-Rated on Sept. 3, I didn’t think it was at all Troll-Worthy. If I had seen it at the time, I would have uprated it.
But I also gotta say that you probably could have avoided acquiring so many Troll-Ratings if you hadn’t made comments like these three (of many similar ones):
I realize this isn’t the whole story. Most of your posts seemed perfectly reasonable to me, including the ones I disagreed with. But I think your responses were a little like the IAF/IDF in southern Lebanon in July: disproportionate to the provocation.
but you really have to look at the comments within the context of the post. Why not post some of the other users statements that elicited my comments and see if mine were really all that bad. Instead of turning tail and running I was standing up to these CHUMs. Besides, i still stand on the principle that if you are going to bitch about Aruba, Rita Crosby, Jon Benet, et. al., then you shouldn’t be glorifying someone like Steve Irwin. my feelings about him and his show aside, he did some very stupid things that people just looked over, explained away, or just outright ignored. Those who did that are uninformed fools and that’s a fact. How can anyone here, there, or anywhere else eulogize Steve Irwin; we didn’t even know him. When John Lennon was shot I was devastated. I felt like I had lost a member of my family. I talked it through with friends. My band even dedicated our album to him which required having the printer called. But I couldn’t then, nor could I now, bare witness at his funeral. People on that post eulogized Irwin. It wasn’t just a “So sorry for the loss of the family” or “Hey Steve, we’ll miss you.” While those posts were there, it was not the majority. And what did those good little Kossacks do? The gave each other ratings of 4 for being a good little soldier. You know how many hit I got on my Purple Revolt Diary? Including all the times I posted it? Fifteen. Now I believe that the Diary i presented is a lot more worthy of 400 hits than Steve Irwin. Why? Because it could be a very strong grassroots movement and send a strong message. And you know, it wasn’t even my idea.
Here is a perfect example of the types of moronic posts that were being made (bold and italics are mine).
The bold equals one of the stupidest statements I’ve ever read. Obviously from someone who knows nothing of Behaviorism. The italics is the whitewash fantasy this person has of who Irwin was. He/She didn’t know Steve Irwin at all.
Here’s a little bit of the war to measure. Now please remember Meteor Blades, that this is AFTER I’ve already been insulted and Troll Rated many times. Expecially by the arrogant jerk to whom I’m responding (bold is mine).
Now, that is but a small sample and not the best of the abuse they give but can’t take. Notice their recommends. When did those comments become worthy of recommends. I would like a logical answer to that. I would also ask that you perhaps DO something about these types. I’m happy to give you their user IDs. See if they don’t keep popping up together in a troll rated comment or troll infested diary. Please do. It’s about time people started to take back that orange place lest it be run further into the ground by NeoCon acting CHUM.
Tell mxxxxn that I’d be happy to meet him on any playground in person so could “discuss” this like gentlemen.