There’s been a lot of bashing of Israel over its attack which resulted in the deaths of the Gaza aid activists. Many here rightly question the value of America’s continued unmitigated support for an ally that bombs civilians in the Gaza strip, starves them, denies them essential medical supplies and has destroyed their economy in the interest of — well, of what I’m not sure.
Eliminating Hamas? Hamas seems to be, if not thriving, continuing to maintain its authority. Indeed, US mediated private talks between the Israelis and the Palestinian Authority are now on indefinite hold, which I imagine only strengthens Hamas’ position that they should have a seat at the table.
Was Israel playing the “crazy Nixon” card to make its enemies quiver in fear? Seems all it has done is cause great animosity between Israel and one of the few Islamic nations in the region that had remained friendly or at least neutral toward it (Turkey).
At the same time this “action” seems only to have increased tensions between Israel and Iran. Iran is one of the few states with the means (not as vast as our right wing brethren think, but means nonetheless) to produce enriched uranium that might be used in the future to produce nuclear weapons mounted on ballistic missiles that could strike Israel. And if Iran gets nukes, its Katy bar the door time in the Middle east as every Arab Sunni state in the region would likely engage in a nuclear arms race.
Israel having nukes is one thing which the large Sunni Arab states have tolerated since Israel has done nothing to harm their economies nor the authority of their governments. However, a rival Islamic state governed by religious political figures the Sunni dominated nations believe are heretics out to undermine their authority in the Islamic world is something else entirely. Nuclear proliferation on that order would certainly not be a benefit for either Israel, the United States or the rest of the world in general.
Perhaps Israel is looking for a justification to attack Iran, fight another war in Gaza to attempt to destroy Hamas, or attack Hezbollah in southern Lebanon? After all when everyone really is against you (even the Wall Street Journal agrees on that point). Nothing rallies your country’s citizens round the flag better than making everyone hate you.
Of course, a war in the Middle East involving Israel and anyone at this time would be disastrous for the United States and (if the attack was on Iran) the world economy. Oil prices would skyrocket on speculation alone, and the threat of Fundamentalist Islamic terrorist attacks against the United States at home or abroad would also likely increase dramatically.
So, what, if anything is the United States getting for our “friendship” with Israel? Well, I did find one benefit and here it is:
WASHINGTON — A former U.S. ambassador aboard a Gaza aid ship seized by Israeli commandos is on his way home, his wife said Monday evening.
Edward Peck, 81, of Chevy Chase, Md., a Washington suburb, was among activists in the flotilla trying to get humanitarian aid to Gaza, Ann Peck said in a phone interview with The Associated Press.
She said she received a brief e-mail from Israel’s foreign ministry on Monday informing her that her husband was fine and headed home. The e-mail said he would likely arrive Tuesday, didn’t have a cell phone with him and would call from a New York airport when he landed, she said, adding that it didn’t say which airport.
That’s right. Our government can still pull strings to get an 81 year old ambassador released from Israel’s “protective custody.” Mind you, it didn’t help a younger American activist in Gaza whom the Israeli forces literally bulldozed to death, nor did it help the American sailors who died or were wounded on the USS Liberty in 1967 by Israel’s unprovoked attack on that ship, but at least our formerly important political figures are safe in Israel’s hands.
That’s a comforting thought, I’m sure for any of our former political bigwigs who ever find themselves detained in Israel. For other people, not so much:
A day after Israeli commandoes raided an aid flotilla seeking to breach the blockade of Gaza, Israel held hundreds of activists seized aboard the convoy on Tuesday as news reports said activists may be planning a fresh attempt to ferry supplies to the Hamas-run enclave.
Now, admittedly, Israel was viewed by past American governments as a valuable ally during the Cold War with the former Soviet Union. They provided America with the military bases and muscle to guard our interests in the Middle East’s oil reserves, much as the Shah of Iran did before he was overthrown. Heck, that;s why Donny Rumsfeld was so chummy with Saddam Hussein after the Shah was deposed, remember?
But those days are over. The question remains, strictly from a geopolitical standpoint, what value does Israel provide to the United States? I suggest not much. Sure, we get the benefit of whatever intelligence they choose to share with us (assuming that intelligence is accurate, which is a big assumption these days).
But in all other respects Israel is viewed around the word as a pariah nation. Our continued support for its actions seem evermore inexplicable, and continues to fuel anger among the common people of Arab and Islamic countries around the world, much as our wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have done.
Some have claimed that this is merely antisemitism in disguise from the Left. I would argue that is a misguided and dangerous assumption to make. What I and others are arguing is that our support of Israel’s actions regardless of what their consequences has become a political and moral liability for America. I believe that the State of Israel deserves to exist. I believe Israel is entitled to secure borders.
However, the current policies Israel’s governments have pursued of wars, military action, territorial expansion, and the slow genocide of the Palestinian people in the Gaza strip through this blockade can arguably be viewed as crimes against humanity fueled by racism. The truth of the matter is that Israel’s neighbors and the Palestinians have suffered far more than Israel from the ongoing pattern of maintaining and even exacerbating Israel’s conflicts with those around it.
One has to ask who benefits from Israel’s policies? Certainly the right wing parties in Israel and the extremist political groups in the Palestinian territories and Lebanon, both of whom can use the conflict to justify their actions and their authority. And it benefits arms manufacturers and dealers around the world. Wars and the preparation for wars are always good for their business.
It also benefits the more extreme governments in the Middle East, such as Iran and Syria while undercutting the authority of more moderate regimes in Turkey, Egypt and other countries who would prefer that the problem simply go away. Ranting and raving about Israeli atrocities and the threat of Israeli military action inflames the crowds and keeps the focus off internal dissent.
It also advances the careers of those (e.g., President Ahmadinejad) who would prefer to arm their nations with the most destructive weapons on the planet. In short, Israel’s increasingly hostile and deadly actions have helped tear apart efforts to make the Middle east a nuclear free zone.
Who knows, maybe that was the intention all along.
But let me remind people of a little history. Wars and territorial expansion and the subjugation of occupied peoples and nuclear weapons are no guaranty of security. Quite the contrary. History has shown us that eventually nations that pursue military aggression as their primary means of “diplomacy” end up with less security and ultimately create far greater harm to their own countries (see, for example, America in Vietnam, the Soviet Union in Afghanistan and of course Japan and Germany in WWII).
Wars breed more wars, because the survivors of those who are slaughtered in war, the nations who lose those wars, always want revenge. It may not come today, or next week or even in the next few years. But eventually history shows us that a day of reckoning will come. Israel is sowing the ground for its own future destruction, and our continued support of their aggressive actions only brings that day of reckoning closer for both them and for us.
True. I commented during the last Israeli bulldozing of Gaza that the aggression favored both the Likkud and Hamas. No Gazan can complain about Hamas not maintaining the sewer and electrical systems when Israel is blowing them up. And dissent in Israel is crushed with the “everybody hates us” meme whipped up into a frenzied war dance.
Foreign policy is always an extension of domestic politics. That is all you need to know.
Haha. I made this exact argument at DKos 2 years ago.
The only reason I got that made any sense was that by remaining Israel’s ally we can exercise some control over their nukes.
But clearly, Netanyahu is more into saying “fuck off” to Obama and counting on his country’s influence with the Congress (76 Senators signing the letter saying we are being mean to Israel) to stop any kind of push by Obama. Israel is one of the few things I DON’T blame Obama for. When they have that much control over Congress there’s not a lot that can be done.
Their is no evidence of this charge against President Ahmadinejad.
When I hear “Israel deserves to exist,” I scratch my head. What has Israel done to deserve anything positively? I don’t think a country deserves to exist. That’s like saying that a cake deserves to sit on the counter. Israel is an object. It’s a thing. It’s not some living, breathing individual who desires independence and freedom.
Support for Israel in America comes from fear of anti-Semitism. Somehow politicians are held hostage to this menacing smear, which is associated with the Third Reich. Support for Israel is equated with the fight against anti-Semitism. And the fight goes on. And this serves the purpose of the Zionists. Yet, strangely, if you ask the average person (both in Europe and the US) what is Zionism, they will not really know. It is a fuzzy concept. People may equate anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism but they do not know why or how they are related. Also many people think that Jews are all Zionists, which is far from true. Zionism provokes anti-Semitism and it is sometimes hard to see if this is intentional or not. For instance, there is nothing inconsistent with Israeli actions – be it in the settlements, in Gaza, in Mariage laws, citizenship laws, you name it – which is not perfectly consistent with Zionism. When you look closely you can see that Zionists have created a strange democracy which only works for Jews and not the rest of the population. What is needed, therefore, is serious clarification and discussion of what Zionism means. Then, maybe, the existance of Israel would stop meaning “as a Zionist state”, which is the unspoken add-on to Israel’s “right to exist”.
I see no benefit of being the sole ‘ally’ of a warring, terrorist, law-breaking, apartide, non-nation. Gen. Betrayus even had to warn O-bought-ma since Rahmie had him so insulated that he was thunder-struck to hear that being the ally of Israel was what was ruining the world-reputation of the occupied country of the US
Steven, why does Israel deserve to exist? I hear that trope all the time but I never hear it followed by any “because.” It’s just something that we’re supposed to accept religulously. Israel has become a religion unto itself. It’s never wrong and is infallible. That’s called “faith.” And “faith” has no bearing in any intelligent discussion, as far as I’m concerned. Israel is merely a leach client state that was created and fostered as retribution. Now, Israel is held up with some sort of end-times prophecy and all the crackpots are going out in wide-open fields and waiting for the Apocalypse by way of Iran attacking poor, little, nuclear-weapon-armed Israel.
It is a repudiation of those who say that Israel does not have a right to exist – that its existence is a miscarriage of justice – and that those who seek to eradicate Israel are fully justified and, indeed, obligated to do so.
Nothing has the right to exist. Not you. Not your mother. Not my Pizza Hut. Not Israel. When someone tells me that “Israel deserves to exist,” I want to hear why. “Just cuz,” ain’t cutting it anymore in the world at large. And if the answer to the question is an atrocity that happened 70 years ago, I respond, “Should every people victimized by a legitimate atrocity be gifted someone else’s land?” Atrocities like the Holocaust aren’t the special provenance of Jews but it sure seems that way when I hear the nonsense. Blacks should get a country. The Japanese should get a country. And every other aggrieved people should get the gift of someone else’s land. Give me a good reason for Israel’s special status and maybe my view can be changed for the better. But my view now is that Israel no more deserves to exist than my corner laundromat. The USA doesn’t deserve to exist. No place deserves or has a right to exist. If so, when did said place earn that right? Who bestowed it? Why?
My questions are serious.
It is true that nothing has a right to exist, and as that extends to Israel and the United States it also extends to a potential Palestinian state, yet that does not stop people from asserting the creation of a Palestinian state as an ethical imperative. You asked why people say that Israel has a right to exist, I’m simply telling you that they do so as a shorthand for saying, “I disagree with those who say that Israel should and must be eradicated from the face of the planet.” It is not an assertion of ontological necessity.
Thanks, Oscar! I think I get it now. When “Israel has the right to exist” is said what is specifically unsaid is “by any means necessary.”
I wish they’d be more honest and tell the truth. But that truth would rattle their delicate sensibilities and unmask their righteous stance for what it really is.
Well, in fairness, if we felt like our existence was threatened then we would have little problem with asserting our right to exist by any means necessary. Put another way, can you think of any reason why you would let someone kill you? Most of us would assert our right to exist by any means necessary – whatever it takes, we will not let someone kill us, generally. There are certainly those who would rather die than do violence to someone else – even in self defense – but natural selection tends to limit those numbers…
I see your fairness but it’s false. Who attacked Israel in international waters? Israelis live in constant fear. Does that give them the right to shoot now and never ask questions? It’s massacres like these that make the Middle East hate Israel. Until they and their benefactors see themselves honestly as oppressors, not default victims since the 1930s, the circle will be unbroken.
That circle goes back several millennia – it won’t be broken any time soon. We can applaud them or condemn them, but truthfully our support or condemnation has no impact on the course of action that they will choose to pursue.
Think of it this way – do we take the opinion of the Congolese into account in determining our Mexican immigration policy? Do we factor in the opinions of Turkmenistan when we determine the Coast Guard’s terms of engagement?
Popular opinion is only relevant to the extent that it affects the interests of the actors as determined by the actors themselves. If an actor doesn’t care about your opinion then you can complement, cajole, or condemn them to high heaven but it will ultimately amount to bupkis…
“That circle goes back several millennia…“
If this is a reference to the tired old canard that the Israel conflict is part of some millennia-old conflict between Arabs or Muslims and Jews, there is yet another bit of Israeli mythology of which you need to divest yourself. The present-day conflict is a bit under a century old, and began around the 1920’s-30’s as the result of the actions and long-term intentions of a group of European Zionist colonists.
I don’t buy the claim that Israelis live in constant fear. In fact the contrary is true as anyone can see who spends any time in Tel Aviv, for example. Nor has Israel’s existence ever been threatened, and least from outside. Israeli leaders know that very well, though it has suited them to try to convince the world otherwise. What Israelis suffer from is not constant existential fear, but something else.
The only existential threat to Israel is Israel.
Um, you can’t be serious…
I am 100% serious, and I can provide sources (see longer comment below).
The number of people who actually say, or believe, that Israel should be eradicated from the face of the earth is so minuscule as to be hardly worth addressing – unless, of course, your main source of information is MEMRI and propaganda sources of that ilk, which I hope is not the case. Even Ahmadinejad never said anything of that kind, despite the persistence of the bad translation of what he actually did say.
Well, after three failed attempts I can understand why that fantasy is less popular these days…
Oh, please! Oscar, please update your information on 1948, 1967, and 1973 from something other than the standard Israeli propaganda. It will be very enlightening.
The only one of those three wars that was actually initiated by Arabs was 1973, and even then the objective was not to eradicate Israel. The 1973 war was the result of frustration on the part of Egypt and Syria over the failure of all diplomatic efforts to get Israel to comply with international law in regard to their sovereign territory that Israel had occupied, ethnically cleansed (95% in the case of the Golan Heights) and had been illegally colonizing and whose natural resources (oil, water, agricultural land, etc.) Israel had been illegally exploiting. Israel’s intransigence led to that war, which had the limited goal of regaining Egyptian and Syrian territory by force since following the correct, peaceful channels had proven useless. 1973 is the only one of Israel’s many wars in which Israel was not an aggressor.
Israel clearly and unequivocally was the aggressor the 1967 war despite Abba Eban’s brazen lies in front of the U.N. In fact, Israel had been planning for some time to undertake just such an action when the time was right. I can discuss 1967 in great detail if you like as I have studied it extensively from a variety of sources.
As for 1948, if you don’t want to believe what the Palestinians and Arabs say about it, please read some of the literature from the numerous Israeli historians who have written about it, especially since the official Israeli and British archives were opened in the ’70’s. The claim that that war was about the Arab hordes uniting to annihilate the peaceful “infant Jewish state” is pure processed bull food from start to finish. It was far more about Israel grabbing and ethnically cleansing land beyond the partition boundaries. As for the Arabs, they were anything but organized, and were so lacking in commitment that by and large they sent only token forces, and those were not well equipped or well trained, and barely coordinated. Furthermore, the Arab states were far more interested in their own internal power struggles than they were in what happened to Israel, and were much more focused on what they could grab out of the situation than in doing anything to Israel.
The only elite (or even competent) Arab army that took part in the 1948 war was the Jordanian Arab Legion, and though they were the only really effective fighting force their role was very limited due to a prior agreement between the Zionists and King Abdullah that Abdullah would leave Israel alone as long as the Israelis left the West Bank to him.
One of the more interesting, and virtually unknown events in the 1948 war is the evacuation by the Arab Legion of the Jewish quarter of Old Jerusalem, which took place by mutual agreement between Jordan and Israel, and was conducted in a very organized, humane, and even compassionate manner according to reports from Jewish evacuees themselves.
So no, Oscar, to respond to your question above, I am not kidding at all. I have studied this enough and from enough different sources that I am very confident of my facts.
Have fun storming the castle…
“Israel having nukes is one thing which the large Sunni Arab states have tolerated since Israel has done nothing to harm their economies nor the authority of their governments. However, a rival Islamic state governed by religious political figures the Sunni dominated nations believe are heretics out to undermine their authority in the Islamic world is something else entirely. Nuclear proliferation on that order would certainly not be a benefit for either Israel, the United States or the rest of the world in general.”
I hear that nonsense repeated all the time.
Thank you, Lysander!!!!