I agree with Paul Waldman that the Democratic Party as a party would depress their own base and harm turnout if they were to adopt a mealy-mouthed apologetic national message for the midterms. The thing is, I don’t think that’s really what people are recommending that they do. Oh sure, there are some concern trolls like former FBI director James Comey and members of Third Way who are warning the Democrats to keep an arm’s distance from the Democratic Socialists in their midst. But there’s really little chance that the DNC, DSCC, and DCCC are going to start blasting out a coordinated message that sounds more like the platform of the Working Families Party than the Democratic Party.
Waldman is correct when he argues that Democrats have failed in the post-Clinton era when they’ve tried to run to the middle in presidential elections. I’d argue that the last Republican to successfully adopt that strategy was George W. Bush in 2000, with his compassionate conservatism schtick, but he actually lost the popular vote by a lot and only became president by a combination of poor ballot design in Palm Beach County, Florida and a very partisan Supreme Court decision. The midterms aren’t national elections however, and control of the Senate will turn on whether Democrats like Joe Donnelly of Indiana, Joe Manchin of West Virginia, Bill Nelson of Florida, Claire McCaskill of Missouri, and Heidi Heitkamp of North Dakota can win reelection. Control of the House may or may not hinge on similarly Trump-friendly congressional districts, but certainly the Democrats won’t win much of a House majority without making significant inroads in traditionally Republican areas.
Most of these congressional seats, whether in the House or Senate, are not held by Republicans today because the Democrats didn’t turn out in sufficient numbers. They’re mostly safe Republican seats that only become vulnerable when the GOP is in a very bad cycle or the incumbent becomes embroiled in scandal. When Democrats hold these seats, they usually do break with the national party fairly often. Former senators Ben Nelson of Nebraska, Blanche Lincoln of Arkansas and Kent Conrad of North Dakota infuriated me on a regular basis, but once their seats were lost, they were seemingly lost for good. The same wasn’t true of Joe Lieberman’s Connecticut seat, but it might be for Manchin’s or Donnelly’s or Heitkamp’s.
The national Democratic Party absolutely should not adopt a national message suitable for winning a statewide election in states Trump carried by thirty or forty points, but they should be mindful that the success of the midterms still will turn on whether Democratic incumbents can win in those states.
The solution isn’t to water down or confuse the message but to find solutions and messages that can work in both Democratic and Republican strongholds. That may challenge people’s imaginations and assumptions, but it’s possible. And Waldman makes a good point when he says this:
There’s a misconception at the heart of this debate, one that says that this is nothing more than an argument over whether persuasion or mobilization — trying to convert those who aren’t already supporting you or trying to get your own supporters to the polls — is more worthwhile. The balance between those two strategies is an important part of this (and every) election. But when we frame the choice between persuasion and mobilization as a debate about ideology, we make a fundamental mistake: believing that the way to persuade voters who aren’t already supporting you is to moderate your positions on issues.
While that may seem perfectly logical if you’re a political junkie, in the real world it seldom works. The reason is that most voters don’t think in ideological terms. They aren’t maintaining a running tally of positions candidates have taken, then assigning each candidate a score (plus 1 for her positions on abortion and health care, minus one for her position on NAFTA), then seeing which candidate’s total comes closest to the ideological score they’ve assigned themselves. That’s just not how voters make decisions.
People are much more apt to respond to cues that tell them whether you are on their side or not than to make that determination based on a careful analysis of policy proposals. It’s easy to let people know you have contempt for them and people like them, and that’s when they stop listening. If the national Democrats want to make life hard for their most crucial Senate candidates, they can send powerful signals that they don’t respect whole regions of the country or even want their votes. They won’t do that by proposing this health care bill or that one, but they might just say as much when talking to their own base.
If the Democrats are going to have a successful midterm, they have to respect the people whose votes they are going to need, and that’s not the same thing as running to the middle. Republican policies are generally unpopular in theory and even more so in practice, but that doesn’t prevent them from competing in most areas of the country. That’s because they really excel at convincing people that they’re on their side. That they do so by consistently appealing to people’s least generous and most fearful emotions isn’t something to emulate but it is something that has to be countered effectively in this upcoming election. To begin with, the party can start by doing no harm. Don’t try to turn up base turnout but alienating voters you’ll need. Then, recognize that people have selfish reasons for opposing the Republicans as well as broadminded ones, and that there is plenty to legitimately fear about how our country is being presently governed. This is as true in the shale and coal fields of North Dakota and West Virginia as it is in the emerging socialist strongholds on the urban coasts.
The Democrats don’t need one unified message, but insofar as they have one, it should be unapologetically populist and exclusive of as few people as possible.
Hey! I actual agree with you for the first time in a long long time!
An example of ad hominem rating.
MattY makes almost the same point.
It seems that Republicans almost always mobilize the base, and rarely ever put any effort and persuading swing voters. (I have voted for nominally Republican candidates for my Los Angeles County Commissioner’s race – even though they are non-partisan by nature. But I have not seen any Republican in any election in California try to make the case for a non-base Republican voter to vote for them!)
There are a lot of Democratic voters who don’t have the same zeal for voting as the Republican voter. In Georgia, the Democratic governor has won the primary by successfully turning out Democratic voters to go vote. Can she do the same in the November election? I am not sure she is trying to persuade the swing voter. Whatever message she is putting out is a strong Democratic message. If there are some swing voters who are persuaded by her message, and/or dissuaded by the Republican candidates/Trump’s party, then it will be even bigger margin. But I think she can do it without those swing voters, IF she can turn out her supporters in large numbers!
Republicans know what the veteran campaign managers know, elections rarely, if ever, turn on a “swing” vote. Elections are won by getting your party’s under vote to the polls.
The Twice-Obama-Then-Trump voter is a very corporate media friendly story line, but when you look at the numbers, they don’t make up a significant portion of Democratic votes owed and didn’t “swing” 2016. We hear it constantly for many reasons, one being because it washes the Trump vote of its hate, bigotry, fear, and ignorance.
(3rd ¶ from last)
But this I approve (see comment previous thread!):
Democrats need to look at the areas where progressives and populists may disagree and perhaps be more willing to alienate progressives instead of populists on those issues. I think there is an unwillingness to talk about what those issues are because they may be the sort of social issues that some progressives treat as non-negotiable.
There is this mistaken belief that compromise means meeting in the middle. There can be a more high-variance form of compromise where, for every ten issues, you get to win big on five of them and lose big on five of them.
When, exactly, in American history, has ‘populism’ not been about hating on Jew bankers, big cities, people with vowel-heavy last names, and education beyond state-mandated minimums?
link
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Let’s not underestimate the unselfishness of GOP voters.
They have selfish motives galore for opposing the Republicans — they just won’t act on them.
They’ll vote for their water being dirty, and their health insurance going away, and their local hospital closing, and college being put out of the reach of their children, and poverty in their old age.
We know this because we’ve watched it happen.
That’s pretty unselfish voting behavior right there.
The donald’s trade negotiations are not moving forward. Appears no one in the global community is bending to the donald’s bullying. Currently, the cold storage (frozen) of beef, pork, and chicken is at near capacity. No one is buying our meat. Other stuff like soy beans…the price has dropped near 30%. Yes, we might see lower prices but the farmers are producing more than we could ever consume and low prices will not cover their cost of production.
Not saying messaging isn’t important, but if the James Comey’s of the Beltway control what is or is not “radical left policy” then the Overton Window is just too far gone for the party to recover.
Maybe it’s living in flyover country away from emerging socialist strongholds, but in elections since the Orange Shit Gibbons “victory” I’m not seeing candidates running on a “radical left” platforms out here.
Also, what about Democrats/progressives/liberal history of terrible turnout during midterms?
If Trump has taught us anything it’s that people want someone who actually believes what they say, and who appears determined to kick some ass once they get in. I don’t think there is ever a good time to go all vague, squishy, and centrist – Comey et al can go jump in a lake. People want action, so go ahead and spook the horses, and don’t keep that powder dry.
I certainly hope the D’s have internalized this, and once they have any power back they go into every situation with guns blazing, taking no prisoners, fighting just as dirty. Roll over them, cut them off at the knees, do everything they’re doing now and worse, hell go ahead and lie, I almost don’t care, but get them out of the way and give me socialized health care, free college, roe, climate regs, military downsizing, 90% Richie Rich taxes, etc.
They’re working like the devil to get their fascist dystopia, so when our side is finally back in I want them to move heaven and earth to give me my socialist utopia. By almost any means necessary.
You write:
Yes.
But…
When has this ever happened? Especially over the last 30 years? The disastrous acceptance of Republican presidential ballot games by the Gore and Kerry Democratic establishments of the time tell the tale right there. There is no fight in them.
Sorry…only a true revolution in the Democratic Party’s controlling hierarchy would bring that fighting spirit about, and the hierarchy’s captive media is already dropping broad hints about how dangerous the Sander/Warren/Ocasio-Lopez movement is for the so-called “real Democrats” in the coming election. I hate to say this, but it begins to look like the only way that this party might be able to shake these dinosaurs loose is to get its ass kinked in November. A partial fail or squeak-thru win just won’t cut it…the captive neocentrist media will simply bray its usual “GRADUALISM!!!” bullshit, and it will be neocentrst business as usual. If that does happen, it may be too late to save the U.S. system as it now (
totters)…err, ahhhh, I mean stands, of course.So it goes…
Weakness breeds weakness.
As the I Ching says in Hexagram 16, Yü / Enthusiasm:
“Empty enthusiasm.”
A perfect description of the powers that be in the Democratic Party today.
They oughta read more.
Later…
AG
The always brilliant Charles Pierce on the latest round of “moderation” in the Democratic party.
I think that the conflict in the Democratic party isn’t so much between the “left” and the “center”, as it is between the donors, who are essentially investing in potentially favorable legislative outcomes, and the voters. The people arguing “centrism” seem to be by and large arguing the interests of the donor class and this is increasingly in direct conflict with the energy of the more reform oriented type of populism that is popular in both red & blue states with voters who identify over a broad range of the ideological spectrum.
Unfortunately, the red state Senate Democrats up for election this cycle, aren’t really reformers and are in office mostly through the shear luck of drawing particularly odious or inept opponents. This cycle, I hope they can at least make the argument that they are checks against a corrupt and out of control Republican party. Before Trump, the tactic of trying get the most insane opponent possible made a lot of sense. In particular, Claire Mccaskill was effective in doing this the last time she ran. Post Trump, it really seems that getting the shittiest person possible to run against maybe isn’t the best thing for the country and I wouldn’t be surprised if voters end up holding it against the candidate.
The donor class wants “centrist” pro-business economic ideas mixed with progressive social stances. This clashes with the populist segment of the population that is less liberal on social issues.
I argue that the latter should be pursued over the former and I think part of the problem is progressives who prioritize social issues as a litmus test for Democrats.
Will they vote for us if we just stop talking about the fact that people of color, and women e.g. are badly served by the status quo?
Or will we actually have to put the boot in?
I disagree with the idea of “messaging.” It should be (and Republicans have always been better at this) about “narrative.” Humans respond to stories. Trump told a story, Clinton had an agenda. That was (barely) enough to draw the inside straight in the Rust Belt. Bill Clinton told a story, Obama WAS a story.
Campaign in poetry, govern in prose.
. . . (though I don’t think it’s either/or: best to have both appealing “narrative” and proposed policies to benefit voters you’re appealing to), but don’t find the insistence on a distinction between “messaging” and “narrative” very compelling.
Call it whatever you want, just do it, and better than Dems often have.
For a long time I have struggled with polls that say the Democratic Party is too liberal (e.g. economist/yougov poll from April this year). Yet poll after poll shows “liberal” positions that are extremely (like over 60% supported) popular.
Raising Minimum Wage
Stricter Gun Control
Government Investment in Infrastructure
Raising Corporate Taxes
…to name a few
How do we message these very popular issues without turning off people by being “too liberal”?
Say what you want about Bernie – he knows how to read a poll.
By talking about them at cross-burings…
I don’t get it either. Since 2016 Democrats have been running and largely winning in Trump 10+ districts on platforms of including healthcare, education, environment, income inequality, and protecting rights. Most haven’t even bothered mentioning the Orange Shit Gibbon by name.
What we’re probably seeing is what the anti-Bernie Campaign would have been if he’d won the nomination: The Democratic Party is now a MAOIST SHINING PATH insurgent group that will collectivize us ALL!!!!
The people the Ocasio-Lopez’s are turning off are the Manhattan elite, the Beltway, and wealthy white males who fear losing their social position or their tax cuts above all else. Who else would be so sensitive that they could not abide ONE Democratic Socialist in the House of Representatives.
How?
Get new messengers.
Ones not crippled by years of “public/private” positions.
People that mean it.
AG
For pretty much my entire adult politically aware life, polling has consistently strongly supported the premise that this is and always has been, on the whole, a liberal nation. It’s founding documents are saturated in liberal values and principles (obligatory acknowledgment of our original sins, slavery, Native American genocide, and racism more generally; but these were deviations/failings contrary to our espoused values, not expressions of those values).
Every bit of social progress in our history has been advocated (sometimes physically fought for) by liberals, while “conservatives” had to be dragged along kicking and screaming (and sometimes also physically — including treasonously, see the War to End Slavery — fighting against it).
But because liberals consistently work for change to improve people’s lives, even “conservatives” — experiencing these resulting benefits personally — tend eventually to come around to supporting those liberal policies that contemporaneous “conservatives” had fought tooth-and-claw to prevent.
The list of examples (that substantial majorities — often including even majorities of “conservatives”/Banana Republicans — routinely support) of liberal policies that “conservatives” originally opposed goes on and on and on. A few just off the top of my head: ending slavery, child labor laws, 40-hour work week, overtime pay, paid vacation, sick leave, civil rights protections, food safety regulations, environmental protection, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Obamacare [as long as you don’t call it that in the question!!!], . . .
The phenomenon you describe is real and has persisted for a very long time: American majorities quite consistently approve a very long list of actually liberal achievements, while nevertheless running away from being labeled “liberal” themselves. Why would that be so? I posit two main causes:
How true is it that Americans across the board approve of liberal policies. What do different states look like? Different demographics?
How effective is the “up is down” right wing propaganda?
The more we understand this the better. More studies and good social / political science skills needed.
Somewhat like your point #1, I have long felt that there’s a covert contract framing to liberal ideas – We brought you all these good things, we deserve your vote and support! But that’s not how most people work. No overt contract with me, and you
didn’t deal with my big issue anyway(I fear immigrants, or hellfire, or having my job stolen by economic forces that make no sense to me).
. . . tell can’t be just “this is what we’ve done for you in the past, so of course you should vote for us!” (Nor, of course, can it be just “Trump and the Banana Republicans [should be a band!] are horrible and we’re the only alternative, so vote for us.”
But I’ll continue to say it should include proudly claiming credit for, basically, every good thing government has ever done to improve your lives; then continue to articulate that projected into the future. Something like: “It’s because we’re the political movement dedicated to making people’s lives better that we did so in the past and will continue to do so going forward, thusly: [broad narrative and detailed proposals, mix varying according to need/context; I say both are needed].
I think this post makes a good addendum to your comment:
http://www.mahablog.com/2018/07/23/moving-to-the-left/
(She also mentions Paul Glastris Washington Monthly article.)
. . . and I think is very concordant both with what I said above and with booman’s overall advice:
The gulf between policy preferences and voting behavior is enormous.
Voting has to do with much more than policy preferences.
Vox’s Sean Illing talked to Larry Bartels and Christopher Achen about the lack of connection at lenght last summer.
Bartels:
. . . behavior flows from their lizard brains responding to racist demagoguery . . .
. . . and anti-democratic flaws in our electoral system align geographically into a perfect storm . . .
. . . and the Banana Republicans collude with a foreign adversary to exploit those flaws and steal an election . . .
. . . voilà Trump.
See also reply to RacerX below (unless it’s jumped around again). Some relevance here, too.
Just a few quick thoughts about this “Won or Lost in Trump Country” idea…
As I have said often on this blog, I regularly go incognito into “Trump Country” for days and even weeks at a time. This is not some kind of survey tactic; I simply visit friends and relatives who live in those areas and I also occasionally work…or at the very least pass through…those areas as a musician. I refuse to take a plane if a drive will take less than 7 hours because…
Because:
#1-Air travel…especially in the broken airports of most major U.S. cities…is now based on personal humiliation unless you are wealthy enough to buy your way out of being poked and prodded by minimum wage workers backed up by militarized police thugs with guns and then squeezed in a tiny seat and fed petroleum-based “snacks.”
and
#2-If it takes 7 hours or less to drive there, it is quite liable take about the same amount of time…door to door, including getting to the airport, going through the ridiculously inept Homeland Security bullshit, waiting for the almost inevitable “delayed” flights or worse, changing planes in South Carolina or some other place in Flyoverville, dealing with that delay, getting off the plane, waiting for your luggage (If you are lucky!!!) and getting to your destination by whatever hook or crook is available.
All the while being treated like a second-rate cash cow, milked of every nickel that can be squeezed out of you.
By comparison, driving is direct, free and easy in terms of taking a break and moving
around when need be, more scenic, much</u< less expensive and…if you keep your eyes and ears open…much more <U>educational.
I keep my eyes and ears open, my mouth fairly shut and I can easily pass as a working class white voter myself. You’d be amazed by what you can see.
I have been noticing over the past…ohhh, say 10 or 15 years…a real change in the independence of women in these areas. Mostly, they always used to seem kind of…passive…in the thrall of their menfolk. But as the economic and work patterns have changed, so have they. They have been coming out of the shadow of their men and taking charge. Working eventually tends to do that to all disadvantaged classes. They actually need to be better than men at whatever they are doing in order to continue to work and progress in the workplace.
Now to the politics…
Instead of just propping up female candidates willy-nilly…deserving or not so deserving…in an attempt at identity politics, the Dems ought to be viciously attacking Trump on his own anti-female record.
I mean…c’mon!!!
It’s plain as day.
He has unfeelingly…and often quite publicly…grabbed more pussies than any other Lothario on historical record. Hell…he brags about it!!! He’s bought and sold wives, whores (official whores and just-dabbling-around whores) and any number of innocents who were simply too dumb to see his real colors.
He makes Bill Clinton look like Caspar Milquetoast.
Harvey Weinstein could be facing life in prison for his sad act, and he’s small potatoes compared to Trump.
Lay it on him!!!
I seem to hear…regularly from the all too common neocentrist leftiness deplorable-haters:…things that smack of the following:
Riiiight…
Maybe they just didn’t like Hillary’s superiority act?
I sure as hell didn’t.
Trump?
Now?
Decisively tarred and feathered by the media but still somehow managing to keep flying? Wet tar flying off his little fingers with every twittering flap?
Lay this on him!!!
Lay it on him hard and often, and then watch the anti-Trump numbers jump.
Especially in so-called “Trump Land.”
They could care less about any alliances he has or has not tried to make with Putin. They’re too busy trying to make a living in two-worker households with kids. But on their daily work beat? They know a predator when they smell one. Just yell about it loud enough to really get their attention.
I was having a conversation recently wth a Puerto Rican friend regarding how Hispanic neighborhoods seem to have been able to more successfully resist viral gentrification (Read “Whitieification,” really.) than have any other working class ethnic neighborhoods in rapidly gentrifying NYC. Italian, African American, Irish, Polish and so on…almost all gone. I have written here about how their ongoing culture and the buffer of being bilingual helps them to resist…to organize and resist…and he laughed and said. “Yes. Of course. But more importantly…when we get mad we start to yell!!!” We both cracked up, but there’s a lot of truth in that.
Yell this message until you get working women’s attention in TrumpLand.
You might be surprised at the results.
Later…
AG
Now a standalone:
A Further Take On: The Midterms Will Be Won or Lost in Trump Country.
Please comment there.
Thank you…
AG
For the record AG, I’m going to start zero-rating this “now a standalone post” spam. If you want to post in the comments, post in the comments. If you want to post in a diary, post in a diary. Spamming the site with multiple copies of the same dumbassery is disruptive and unnecessary.
Do your worst, marduk.
It will never be good enough.
Bet on it.
AG
Further…
I never know when one of you neo-McCarthyites are going to zero out one of my comments or replies. Stop your worthless, unsupported-by-anything-except-spleen zeroes and a lot of things would change here.
AG
. . . article” of yours ever disappearing as a result of zero ratings.
Pretty sure that’s never happened.
Pretty sure of that cuz pretty sure it’s impossible, the system booman created provides no way for it to happen.
So this false excuse for your persistent, offensive double-spamming is transparent bullshit.
I wrote:
I repeat…in case you might miss it again in one of your regular, obsessive rushes to (bad) judgement:
Not “standalone articles”/”diaries.” (“Diaries.” They are terribly misnamed, by the way. All thanks I suppose to the Little King at dKos.) My responses, which are called “comments” or “replies” on this blog. I know perfectly well that my standalones cannot be zeroed out. That’s why I post many of them.
In self-defense and in defense of my ideas.
Pls lrn to at least think b4 U let fly with one of your regular, flaming hate posts.
Thank you.
AG
P.S. In point of fact, when the nalbar/marduk twins zero me out and I post a saved reply or comment as a standalone, all they are succeeding in doing is giving that post wider visibility. Duh!!! I am sure that many well-meaning and curious readers only get through about 2 or 3 of your Gang of Four’s accusatory, bullshit comments/replies before they roll their eyes and go to another thread. That work is mostly stupid, repetitive and boring. Meta is boring, right out front. At least you manage to sound like you have a brain most of the time, even if your repeatedly hysterical hatreds are its primary driving influences. The others? They sound like they were written by Xerox machines.
Thank you twice.
Refuting one of you sometimes makes my day.
I’ve literally never, ever, one single time, given you a zero rating. Those ratings are reserved for actual spam (like for instance advertising your reposts in the diaries).
That is why I gave you fair warning above.
My apologies.
You let nalbar do the dirty work, right?
So sorry!!!
AG
. . . disappearance of comments due to zero ratings.
This excuse is invalid and spurious, since if they’re posted as diaries . . . oops, sorry, “standalone articles” [LOL!], they cannot be disappeared due to zero ratings, so there’s no excuse for double-spamming by also posting them as comments in threads.
This is not hard.
One of us definitely needs to “Pls lrn to at least think”. It ain’t me.
“Meta” like this, ya mean?
Indeed ^ that is “meta” and boring, truer words never said. But of course those are relatively minor flaws next to the fact it’s a pack of lies start-to-finish.
And even more:
Are you the owner of this website. Its sole arbiter?
No.
Martin is.
I have been doing this for years.
Not a word from him about it.
Not a word.
Thank you and good afternoon…
AG
I actually love it when Arthur makes his own post rather than commenting.
Much easier to ignore.
It’s about when he does both, i.e., double-spams: spams a comment, then repeat-spams it as a diary . . . oops, my bad (& yours, too) . . . “standalone article” (LOL!).
There is now a better than even chance of the Democratic Party taking the House back this November, according to arguably one of the most cautious of the folks who make projections. A number of former “Leans Republican” districts in so-called “flyover country” now are toss-ups. Depending on how the outcome of the trade war unfolds, that may change further in the coming months.