On april 7, 2005 I wrote the following diary, since I wrote this a lot has changed and I am curious how you all would respond today in view of the way this site has developed.
This is the link to the first diary:
http://www.boomantribune.com/story/2005/4/7/91329/56729
I am wondering what is the point of all of these stories constantly brought to our attention. How can we possibly take a viable interest in every one of these issues and if we do what can be done about them?
Sure I agree we should be interested in the whole world, but is that diffusing the problems we have in this country and our ability to take effective action (another question in itself).
What is the purpose of this forum and others like DK, just to endlessly discuss every issue, and then do nothing, take no action, just to know about it and discuss it to death. I am concerned that we are wasting away the time when perhaps we could be actually doing something, become a force of change.
I am not saying I have the answers, but I am asking the question and perhaps we could discuss our purpose, if we have one, or if we don’t, should we?
I see a parade of subjects come up every day on the recent diary list, and very few comments are made. The problem for me and why I do not comment on a lot of these diaries is that I simply have nothing to say. What comment is meaningful to add to news stories and other such articles. On DK a news item is met with a long list of wows, too bad, this is terrible, etc. ad infinitum. Not so bad on this site, where much more substantive comments are the rule and not the exception.
Occasionally one of the topics catches fire and we discuss (or argue) it for days and in the end, what have we done, nothing.
What purpose is this serving except to take up a lot of time for a lot of people that is not doing one damn thing to change anything, just over informing all of us.
I personally think we need to narrow down our focus a bit and limit it to things we may possibly be able to change and start to figure out just what we might be able to do.
Right now the issues presented are scattered over the entire world and no action that I can see is being taken or even asked for, except for a few petitions here and there, a few letters written to media and newspapers and Congress.
So I am asking, “What you think about this; our purpose, the purpose of forums and blogs in general and what changes we could make that would make us (blog world) productive and effective and not just a big political chat room?
Lets talk!
This was Booman’s response:
One purpose of this blog is to cover news that is being ignored or undercovered, or covered in an entirely parochial or jingoistic manner.
Another purpose is to hunt down corruption and to highlight stories about malfeasance in government.
Of course, we are too small to have much effect right now, but that will change…hopefully.
Another purpose is to build a community of politically educated and active people that can be mobilized to take actions…flooding a Congressperson with mail, having a meet-up in Seattle to support a progressive candidate, raising money for a worthy candidate etc.
As I said in my FP article on Israel, we are a government-in-waiting. Too much of our efforts are focused on mere critiques, while alternatives are ignored. Bush will not let us help, or participate. He just nominated a laundry list of the most reviled people in the country to head his second term government. He doesn’t want our help.
But we need to be prepared to take over. And so, we need to talk about global issues.
So, I agree with your critique.
But we also try to have fun here at the Frog-Pond. The next big election is 18 months off. We can’t take ourselves too seriously every day.
So, we should share our foibles and jokes, and not insist everything be framed in a political context.
We’ll ramp up late in the year when we start thinking about primaries.
I guess you could say I brought Booman’s thoughts into the fore when I ended up starting the Froggy Bottom Cafe as well as the Welcome Wagon.
So I am curious what are your thoughts today as we have evolved into the great site we are today and where do you all see or would like to see us going.
I took some flack when I did this subject before that I perhaps was not interested in world affairs and I assure you that I do care and am very interested in the topics all over the world and now we have Euro Trib, so that is just great…
So Let’s talk!!
I hope you will come to this diary and continue our discussion from the Froggy bottom.
Diane, this reminds me of a song by my current favorite band, Le Tigre, called “Get Off the Internet”: “Get off the internet/I’ll meet you in the street/Get off the internet/Destroy the right wing.” 🙂
I’ve had a lot of the same thoughts you mention in your diary. There are days when I don’t feel like going anywhere near the computer because I just can’t take one more outrageous news story — I do think information overload can be a real problem; in my case it sometimes intensifies a feeling of powerlessness and pessimism.
On the other hand, I also believe in the old cliche that knowledge is power. It’s important not to stop at knowledge, of course, but it’s a critical first step. I do learn a lot here, and elsewhere on the net, and I often find myself shocked at my friends’ or coworkers’ lack of familiarity with things like the DSM… until I remember that of course they wouldn’t know, since the mainstream media won’t touch it.
Another point I think is important but maybe easy to overlook is the value of building a sense of community in the midst of what many, if not most, of us experience as a pretty hostile culture. I know that I’ve felt deeply alienated from much of my country for the past several years. Being female, being queer, it’s difficult for me at times not to feel personally attacked by a lot of the rhetoric floating around. Coming here, for me, is an opportunity to connect with people who are from my planet, as it were: people who share at least a few key assumptions and convictions, who remind me that I’m not as aberrant (well, not in a political sense, anyway) as much of the larger society would have me believe. I know people like to deride “preaching to the choir” but I’ve never understood why the choir shouldn’t need the spiritual sustenance of the sermon just much as anyone else.
(I understand your diary isn’t addressing the “preaching to the choir” issue; that’s just where your thoughts led me and I wanted to throw it out there.)
Value of building a community…..Your point above, yes I think we can all see what a great attribute it is to this site to be building the community we have here.
We need the break to just gather and get to know each other and that is the success of FB cafe..
I also think that this community when channeled into action group can be very powerful at least on some levels, once we get going with that in a bigger way.
I am interested in seeing this site grow into teams that can quickly act to perform on thing or another or even collaborate in news story gathering, such as one subject for a team to pursue, rather than many indiviuals pursuing bits of the same story..
The teams I have been building for WW diaries, FBottom diaries, Gardening can be used a somewhat of a model to create these kinds of groups. That also allows for greater participation and a more cohesive knowledge fountain flowing.
I love to read. I used to read newspapers everyday. I like being informed. Newspapers no longer bring real news, but filtered news, or just no news at all. TV news once upon a time gave us a fairly good source of news. TV news is now about entertainment, spin, obfuscation, deceit, and no news. Concerned about the election last year, I found blogs.
The range and scope of “news”, issues, information, action alerts, discussion. . .all of it took me in and filled up way too much time in my day. But, what resulted was connection to some of the greatest people I have ever met, even if only virtually. It allowed me to read some of the best writing I have ever seen about a very wide variety of subjects. I made internet friends. I made internet friends that some of whom call me on the telephone, email me and IM for further connection. I found a sort of community on DK, but when I moved over to Booman, I found a real community.
I also found a community of people who seem interested in my view points (and I have a lot of them I like to express, apparently). I found an outlet for expressing many of the things that are important to me complete with dialog with others from all of their varying opinions. It is vital, it is fun, and there is always someone to talk to no matter what the hour day or night.
What actions it may lead some of us to, all this interaction and information, is whatever comes of it. But we are more informed, more creative, more able to express ourselves than 90% of the population of our country. What does that say? That tells me this is a gosh darn Graduate School, training, growing, sculpting future writers, politicians, local political activists, concerned and informed citizens. So what should be the focus of a blog like this? I think we darn well have it pretty well just as it is. Focus of concerns will grow, change and expand over time. That means we have a living breathing community here that is truly important. How many members have we heard from who say their association here has helped them find their voice. It has helped them to speak out and articulate their interests and concerns. Many of those who said they never thought they would ever comment, or even if they commented would never write a diary are doing what. . .commenting and writing diaries. If nothing else, this blog in particular is fostering growth, and empowering people to speak up. That is no small fete.
So Bravo to Blogs, and a big Bravo to Booman!
Diane, you will never know how important it is to have this place. I needed it more than you will ever know. One can get overloaded with much of what is happening today in this world let alone America. The places that have been created by you and others are a reality for many of us out here to socialize and to get the feel of community. Humans need this in order to place themselves in a place of work and being able to have a voice. When a place like happenes to be made for ppl like us, then we jump at the chance to all of said above.
Sometimes work and family matters get to the point of taking over our lives and then comes politics. It get to when our plates are full and anything else place on that plate makes it run over, we need a place of refuge..that is this place for me.
So, Girlfriend, you and others and the likes of booman and susan hu, have make it real forme without the bru ha ha of the likes of kos. I still read there and sometimes comment, but do not stay for long for fear of corruption. I love politics but not to the point of it comsuming every minute of my life. We all need breathers and when I need one, I come and say HI in here. So pat yourself ont he back among others…and just know you have done a job extremely well..Thank you.
I think blogs like this serve several purposes:
I’ll second the entire list….
News source…there is too much going on and the blogs provide links to info that may be local and effect us all.
Knowing we are not crazy or the only one is really important…twitch, twitch
“WE” know the purpose and the benefit of blogs, but sometimes “WE” need to take a breather, and a day or so off, I know, “WE” know what I mean.
Your dilligent, and valiant efforts are at the center of the hub of this community, just remember, you need some “grease” ; ) (because this wheel is spinn’n faster and faster, and carry’s more of load than it did before ; )
KUDOS lady
I believe in community.
I believe in honest debate and being respected for disagreeing with what is on the table.
That being said:
I like hearing about what is happening in Africa and Asia. Because it is our attention or inattention to certain issues that American foreign policy creates through ‘benign neglect’ or naked aggression that impacts on our standing in the world. Not as a vaunted superpower, but as a country that professes to be a democracy and a compassionate people.
See, people make it very plain that it is not Americans that they hate, but they hate American foreign policy. Unfortunately, because of our forays or nonforays into places like Iraq or Sudan, for example, people all around the world are beginning to say” “Umph, maybe this is what they believe after all.”
One more thing. The MSM doesn’t want to focus on these world issues unless it means death and destruction to the people involved; or if it means that an American or two ‘blundered’ into the middle of something and died. That’s the money shot to them. (That’s also why it is soooo important that we keep PBS playing the BBC World Report for those who refuse to or cannot afford to have cable. I am so sorry that Newsworld out of Canada is gone, because I used to like them a lot.)
If anything, it would be also good to have regional or news out of certain cities so that Dems and progressives are apprised of what is happening in other parts of the country. Such as the San Francisco Bay Area; Austin, TX; New York City and Albany, NY; Alaska; Miami-Dade, FL. Yall know the drill. Not that this isn’t happening here (or on DKos), but if yall live there, yall should report now and then on the culture and environment there.
I and other black folks here are certainly want totalk about issues that relate to and impact on black Americans, including the latest piece of hypocrisy both within and without our community. We certainly call out bullshyt when we see it, but we also disagree about how/when/where/who/what the angle of trajectory of that BS came about. We’re not a monolith.
Just my two cents.
Hi, I just read your comment and I thought you might be interested in Project Africa, a chance to help something I am working on with my African Friend (pastor Lincoln) in Uganda, to help a group of people there to start a co op business to benefit the group and if it works can be expanded outwards by the group to other groups.
http://www.boomantribune.com/story/2005/6/6/10625/05613
Above is link to one diary reg. this and inside that diary are links to the others PastorLincoln has written.
I am getting together a diary to launch this project soon. If you want to help with this project please email me, I could use some help and ideas prior to launching…
Purpose of “political” blogs. This is where I am having a hard time with some of the diaries these days. Some will say well just skip those and read what is important to you. I already do that. Now, don’t get me wrong I think the Cafe was a great idea and am even participating. I think we all need the break from the chaos and overwhelming feelings of hopelessnes and dispair from time to time.
That being said go take a list of recent diaries on this “political blog”. Unserious Saturday-Funniest Books, Saturday Morning Acrylic Painting, Saturday Morning Garden Party, Weekend Nature Blogging, etc.IMHO we have so much work to do that these diaries just do not belong on a political blog. I am sure there are other blogs to go to that that subject matter can be discussed.
Booman has provided us with a great forum and a very cohesive and loving community and people like Diane are a big part of that.If as someone upthread suggestion one wants more local news go to the regional threads. If people just want to hang out and chit chat there are always open threads. I guess what is amazing me is that any given thread at the Cafe gets hundreds of comments while a DSM or very though provoking diary about the paralells of Vietnam/Iraq are lucky to get thirty comments. I am not putting down what Diane and others have accomplished here by making people feel so welcome but will those same people like the dkos folks that converted over here eventually leave because there is too much “chatting” about everyday things and not enough about taking our country back? I don’t know…just putting this out there.
Your question Chocolate was one Sven and I were discussing yestereday which led me to put up this diary.
I think we have always had, both here and on dk fun diaries, like bood abides’s, carnaki’s, and so on….We want to get a tab on the site for the cafe , btw.
Open threads are hard to find, everytime I wanted one in the past to say something quick that did not fit anywhere else, I had a hard time finding one and then it was so far down the list no one would likely see my comment.
To me it is good to be able to have someplace to go, that is hosted, so you will generally get some feedback and where you can discuss topics that don’t necessarily have a diary.
there are many diaries that I read but cannot add to comments as there is not much I have to add, other than great job and I think that does not add to the dialogue.
What do you think about this site having two recent diaries list, one for news,serious topics, etc., and another for fun, spiritual, life story,gandening, etc.diaries. That way the serious diaries will not get drowned by the fun ones and slip down the list faster than butter in a hot skillet.
Sorry,I was thinking you were Chocolate,(and just noticed) when I wrote my comment, I wanted to add also about the Vietnam diary, I bookmarked it last night to maybe comment today, If I can add something,
but it is important to note that many read diaries that don’t have a lot of comments, shirlstars posted info on that once: about for every comment there are 25 readers, and so on, so the numbers of people reading any given diary can be very large and the numbers of comments low. I hope she posts that info here, if she sees this comment.
I think that maybe the number of comments do not demonstrate the value of the diary, the number of readers do.
I have observed that the diaries with the most comments are ususally ones that ask a question of the reader or ask for input. That opens the door for discussion.
News item diaries are harder to comment on as how many times can you express frustration and anger. I am worn out with anger…
Speaking of which, I watched the Conyers hearings for the third time last night and I was still both elated with just hearing the words Impeachment spoken and angry that we had to come to this.
But I do rejoice that at last the day has come. I was doing some searches last night to see the coverage and it is spreading. I am hoping another memo comes out this weekend from Downing St. Fingers crossed.
The rest of the world is covering the story heavily. Perhaps that will help to drive the story here in US.
I agree with most of your input, however look at the recommends too. This for me is disheartening. I understand that feeling of being angry but isn’t it what we do with that anger, how it motivates us to take action that is important? We wonder why half the country doesn’t know these things, that they are uniformed yet we as the informed ones so to speak are doing what? Watching and listening, venting some but what action are we taking? How do we get to the next level of real participation. I am not saying all are not active but is it the majority? Are we not also complicate in allowing this to continue? Rosie announced the 24th March on DC. How many rec. does that diary have. Many cannot participate because of geographics, finances etc so why not coordinate in ones own community? Just throwing these things out there because I am so confused right now.
Yes I think we forget to put recs. on diaries, and prior to the influx it only took 3 rec. to get on rec. list. We need to remind ourselves to rec. diaries…I have been trying to do it more lately especially since now it takes 8 or 9 to get on list.
I want to get more active and that’s what I am pushing for. It’s hard to get a grip on what to do and how to do more. We stuggle.
I would like to see us collectively drive the Impeachment story…that seems to be the most critical thing to get out right now. Has anyone bought bumper stickers yet…I am thinking about it, here is red country Ca.
http://impeachbush.org/
– most of the European posters have moved on to EuroTrib and I miss them.
Over at EuroTrib there doesn’t seem to be much interest in Canada. Why would there be?
Yes it has changed, several times or even daily. Some newcomers came and went I fear, and some moved to Euro. I have a hard time monitering 2 sites as I can’t even keep up with this one.
Also some old commenters haven’t been seen too much of or not at all lately…where did they go?????
anyone else?
zander, I loved your “flaky freak” and “dangerous dreamer” characterisations! LMAO I thought of you earlier, actually (along with other cool people I know) along those lines when I read the following (yup, my dreaded technology book again) about the first dialysis center in Seattle, which had nowhere near the capacity to meet demand, and set up a committee (comprised of “a lawyer, a minister, a housewife, a labor leader, a government official, a banker, and a surgeon”) to play God. Their decisions were publicly criticised as follows:
For myself, I can’t imagine a higher compliment than “creative nonconformist”–but “flaky freak” or “dangerous dreamer” could work too. 🙂
Where’s slacker and does Oui want to come over here to…we need some exciting times like last week. Slacker what can we argue with you…
something contentious -? We could see how slacker does with his new found determination to not be a prick….
Okay, zander has led me by the nose over here. So why’d we move? If it was to help my poor computer load the page more easily, I thank you. Only problem is, I typed up a whole thing in response to Diane’s question! Oh well, read it sometime if you get a chance I guess. 😛
On to the matter at hand…ah yes, “being less of a prick”. <g> I guess this would be like the part in Clockwork Orange where the dude gets brought on stage and bashed in the head to show he is no longer capable of violence? LOL
welcome, glad you finally made it…
Hhhmmm, ‘fraid I don’t remember Clockwork Orange that well…
Well, that kind of blows my Humourous Quip (TM) then. 😉 Lessee what else I got in the bag…<muttering to self>…damn, all out.
I’m sure you’ll find some choice ones… any ideas for a theme for tonight?
Highbrow or low? PG or R? Gimme some parameters. 🙂
all out – go for it… no holds barred. Get it out of your system for the benefit of softer day-time souls who couldn’t handle it….
and post it below – Diane hates it when I blow up margins…
ready to come out swinging, what are we going to talk about, oh how about the Iraq war, are you still for it slacker…..Let’s talk
I like both of you ladies (womyn?) too much for that!
But I did throw out a topic back at the other thread. Diane, you should be able to see it pretty easily and link it, since it was a reply to you (it would take eons for me to go find it and link it). If that one sucks, I’ll try again.
You know –…we thought about it for a while…
and decided you should come up with something else….
So that’s why the conversation is so slow in here: you guys are talking about me behind my back! 😛
Well, I came across another interesting dilemma here on page 119, but it would require breaking a certain promise, and I like to keep my promises.
Hmmmm…well, I’ll throw out a few (and these are deliberately “hot button” issues, ’cause that’s what you asked for):
–what age should be the “age of consent” for sex?
–what should we as a society do with convicted sexual predators?
–human cloning: yea or nea? (or how about pets?)
That’s all I can think of right now…if you hate all those, then…hmmph!
Yep – I’m not up to it either… too happy to argue.