Update [2017-1-8 3:38:15 by Oui]:
In reponse to the late addition from oaguabonita, self-righteousness …
while the 4s are well received from the two perpetrators …
After publishing two diaries on topic, I’m done with arguments …
The behavior of 2 bloggers nalbar and marduk continues unabated …
Position of proprietor can be found in a post below …
No other option to counter bullying tactics …
I will retaliate in kind … always!A shame what has become of the pond, a murky swamp with predators …
Almost what we see daily in a divided state, town, community …
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History is all there for anyone to read, or better abide by the rules and intent as set out by Martin in 2005. Standard SCOOP software was used, which unfortunately had the multiple ratings system to detriment of modern day (ab)users. There has been a discussion about the abuse before and Martin looked to change the software. Due to unnecessary expense, he decided not to adjust the ratings system.
Booman Tribune has been around for some time now, and I have begun to get some questions. First of all, this is a SCOOP site, and many of the questions are common to all SCOOP sites.
I will be developing a community guide for BooTrib soon. In the meantime it may be helpful to refer to Pastor Dan’s dKos Community Guide. If you have a question about what Trolls are, Pastor Dan explains it well. [This is from a dKos article in 2004, many bloggers @BooMan fled in horror from big Orange]
“Hang around long enough and collect enough 0s and 1s, and you become a troll, and are liable to get kicked off the board. While Kos and some other users have the ability to summarily eject particularly difficult users, most banishees are removed by an automated system.”
As mentioned above, this site operates on a rating system; commonly known as `mojo’. Users are able to rate comments based on whether or not they feel the comment is helpful to the discussion. This does not mean that you should down-rate comments you don’t agree with.
The ratings are used to frog-march any trolls, or pond scum, from the site.
See the FAQ page for more info on trolls. The `mojo meter’ is as follows:
- none – no rating given for the comment
- 4 – Excellent
- 3 – Good
- 2 – Warning!
- 1 – Troll
- 0 – Mega Troll (only Trusted Users can give a Zero rating)
Users can give out mojo by clicking on the “Rate All” button that follows each comment on a thread. With this feature, you can submit all your ratings at once for a page after you’ve read through all the comments; rather than having to rate each comment individually.
For a fun post on the community’s thoughts on mojo, check out this diary posted by the Booman himself.
I get pretty fed up with two vigilantes who remind me of the time at dKos, that’s not why I became a contributor @BooMan some 12.5 years ago …
Always find a reason to downrate comments they are not closely involved in:
- Well, according to Eric Barker for Time Magazine, these scatterbrained tendencies of yours may actually determine how smart you are. Citing Steven Johnson’s book “Where Good Ideas Come From: The Natural History Of Innovation,” Barker presents a theory that says messiness is an indicator of intelligence. The basis of the theory hinges on the idea that a more congested, idea-cluttered brain will lead to more potential breakthroughs.
After a post by oaguabonita, I replied as follows and added this diary as a response.
- I don’t have any beef with you … I surely don’t need an interlocutor.
Yep I wrote that diary and have no regret whatsoever. Indeed, Booman wrote his comment and I heeded his advice!! Just look at the timeline for the facts. Both nalbar and marduk were at it again in a matter of hours as I recall.
From the early months when Martin created the dream pond in 2005, I have been a steady contributor on a daily/weekly basis. In more than a decade, we didn’t downrate comments of fellow bloggers here at the pond. Surely we had our differences on policy and opinion, but we never, ever troll rated anyone!!
These two assholes continue their policing of the blog and I can’t recall Martin has ever hired these two to intervene on his behalf in this community. If it has become usance and acceptable, I will vent my opinion to the contrary.
Hopefully this shall soon pass. Troll ratings have taken on a talisman quality for some. They would have done well in late seventeenth century Salem. Up through election day dishing out troll ratings was equated with electing Clinton. In the weeks after that, troll ratings were the lashing out by sore losers. Now we seem to be in the phase where troll ratings are equated with protecting Obama’s legacy. Sad really that Obama is trying to protect his legacy with a florid adoption of Hillary’s anti-Russia/anti-Putin position. Guess he didn’t notice that that didn’t work for her to beat the nincompoop and that it plays even less well abroad than it does in the US.
What we need is a renewal of the “good feel” or mojo diary here in the pond.
I know some of us has skirted the cliff of 0s and 1s abandonment. That’s why it
IS important to increase one’s mojo after a series of attacks by the fearsome twosome.
As I recall [2005] even dKos had a Thursday diary up to boost everyone’s mojo rating.
Okay. Really didn’t know idea that “mojo” was operative here. Except in extreme cases like one I saw a couple of days ago — a new user that posted a comment that was disgusting enough that even I troll rated it and which evidently was the nail in the coffin because the comment disappeared after I rated it — but that’s the first time that I’ve seen ratings ditch a comment.
We should take some care not to uprate a comment that has but one troll rating because in that status it doesn’t count. Whereas a one plus a four does and nothing is better than a 2.3.
For ordinary bloggers here, getting hit by a series of 0s and 1s, they would lose their TU status … trusted user.
TU status?
I’ve lost mine…
Of course, since the only times that I can remember giving an “0” rating were obvious sales trolls…selling shoes or porn or something…trusted user privileges being what they are, it’s no great loss to me. I know that there are people here who trust me, others who don’t and probably many who are on the fence and/or don’t really give a shit one way or another. Human life in a nutshell, always and everywhere. I’m cool wid it.
What I am not “cool” with is twofold.
1-The general downward trend…perhaps “centerward” might be a more accurate term…on a blog that calls itself “progressive.” If I wanted to constantly argue with unimaginative, lockstep centrists, I’d re-up under a different handle over at the (original) Orange Wig.
and
2-Needing to pay attention to ratings in general. I rarely rated here at all until a year or more ago. If I liked something I sat down and said so, and ditto if I didn’t. If I had something to add, I felt free to do that as well. It was a very…conversational…place, by and large. You said your piece and waited for replies. If they didn’t agree, you reasoned with one another…sometimes not so reasonably. Emotionality is human, too.
But now?
Now it’s become more like a negotiation amongst rival gangs. You say something and someone across the table tries to take your head off. This sucks as far as I am concerned. i find myself reflexively checking the ratings of people with whom I am in some sort of agreement, giving them prophylactic “4s” if I expect an attack from the Nalbar/Marduk Brigade.
Not what I signed up for, Booman.
You?
AG
It ain’t the same Pond. Now just DKOS with a different name. Contrary opinions are not wanted.
All good things must end.
Disagree. Contrary opinions (excluding rightwing lunacy, etc. that last but a few minutes here) are tolerated if the writer is able to withstand the flack that is generally juvenile. Included in juvenalia is calling contrarians Putin stooges and agents.
After a while the dominance of sheer stupidity will make it less and less worthwhile to come here for some of us. It already happened once for me…before the election…and I feel it happening again.
We face a set of problems in the U.S.with Trump’s rise. The solutions will not arise from people who try to excuse and/or support the Dem mistakes while attacking people who point them out and offer alternate possibilities.
That way lies only more defeat.
AG
Prevalent but not dominate. While sometimes difficult, best not to read them or feed them.
They bring the whole level of discussion down.
Eventually, they bring a blog down.
I’ve seen it happen.
AG
That’s why it’s best not to read or feed them.
The very first thing that I learned…at about 5 years of age…from the grandfather whose name I use here is this:
Arthur Sheridan Gilroy
Many ways to skin a cat. As people over the age of five learn a new way with each decade.
It proves itself out…for me, and for my son and brothers as well…every decade.
Pick no fights; avoid them whenever possible and stand your ground when you must.
At any cost.
AG
Gen Sheridan was a favorite character of mine.
I think it was a family name. Never thought to ask.
AG
This assumes that the (D) party really wants to stop Trump or just to use him as an excuse. Ref Emanuel/Obama efforts to gut SS/Medicare turning them into a welfare system aka “Grand Bargain”. Ref Obama’s continuing efforts to pass TPP! That will work fine, right? The (R)’s will pass it, Trump will get kudos for opposing it, and lame duck Obama will get the blame from the public for passing it. In 2020 HRC can run on having a plank opposing it in her 2016 platform. Dems can again masquerade as the party of the common man and the elite are happy as all government controls on business are sloughed off.
Who can we rely on to stand for us? Dick Durbin? Chuck Shumer? Nancy Pelosi? This year there is a real excuse to get blotto tonight.
I would like to join you in getting blotto tonight, Voice. The times certainly call for it. Unfortunately I will be playing five challenging sets of big band, NYC-style swing music 6 blocks due north of Times Square/Ground Zero, and after that…provided we all survive until 1AM or so given the dire threats emanating from ISIS and others…I will have to face the perhaps even more threatening subway ride back to da Bronx. The subways aren’t working so well even when not challenged by a New Year’s Eve throng, and last year there were people puke drunk the whole trip.
We have a free bar at this expensive hoedown so the temptation will be there, but I think I’ll stay pretty sober.
Have fun…
AG
Wish we were there to listen, Arthur. I’ll drink a toast to you at midnight.
Yes. Eventually, “It all shall pass” is what happens.
Everywhere.
One way or another.
Either Booman will stop this foolishness in some manner or eventually the people who contribute real, anti-centrist ideas will leave.
Or worse, be zeroed out.
If nothing positive happens, this once-vibrant blog will go down the dKos drain.
It won’t be the first one to be taken down by mediocrity, and it won’t be the last.
So it goes.
Your call, Booman.
Your call.
It’s on you.
AG
I’ve been an absentee landlord of late, so I am not going to try to arbitrate a ratings war.
But there’s never a bad time to repost the ratings rules and guidance.
“A landlord rules the pond ….
Never meant to mind a kindergarten!”
You have been kind and we appreciate your candor and purpose for leading the fight. In 2017 it’s imperative to focus on domestic politics and building a new force of inclusiveness … the millennials and youth need to be part of the Democratic Party. There is no other option, so the DP should adept to changing circumstances of the American people. Due to globalization, it’s not just America … the same trends and needs of the people can be felt in many western nations.
You and Frank Schnittger know the European scene. To me, here, it looks like Europe is taking a big wide Right turn.
It’s been a long time coming and I have forewarned many times …
Brexit will be a force to jolt the EU, opportunity to adapt to a democratic structure or deteriorate in a loose group of nations with different morals, ethics and political goals. To diminish the effect of UK leaving the EU and the military cohesion of NATO, the next SG is rumoured to be … David Cameron! Why not the return of Tony Blair? What a desperate group of elitists in Brussels, London and Washington.
Timely article, Oui.
I happen to despise the use of this ratings system for comments as it’s turned into a circle jerk and virtue-signaling. I agree that it’s being abused.
That being said…
http://www.boomantribune.com/comments/2016/12/30/171434/72/30#30
Is Ludovici one of your accounts?
That account, oddly enough, echoes your thoughts on the recent ratings abuse. Even more odd.. that account troll rated some of my own comments without cause. Just thought that was strange.
Damn.. here’s the proper link.
http://www.boomantribune.com/comments/2016/11/14/112857/88/18#18
What they are not telling you is how they are going back in the archives and secretly giveing zeros.
One of dozens;
http://www.boomantribune.com/comments/2016/12/23/102111/73/82?mode=alone;showrate=1#82
I’m not complaining because I don’t really care…I’m just stating a fact.
The standards of ratings have been changed but not by me. They are not just doing this to me.
This post will soon be downrated because they don’t want this seen.
.
You started this negative ratings trend, nalbar. You and marduk. You are only reaping what you have sown. Stop with the kneejerk ratings and others will stop downrating you. Bet on it.
I have a small but steadfast group of supporters who show appreciation for my diaries. The group changes over time and I don’t know any other than by their handle. In the early years I posted also @EuropeanTribune and met some of fellow bloggers at meet-ups in The Netherlands. Also from BT, bloggers who travel to Europe sometimes drop by for a visit. People I know probablly are just lurkers/readers but remain anonymous. I stay off social media and try to stay below the radar … not looking for a fight to be ID’d.
Sounds reasonable. Here’s hoping your supporter follows your principled lead in the future.
Perhaps you missed nalbar’s link above?
Oui is a howling hypocrite about this shit (not to mention an infantile whiner).
Also pretty chickenshit to ignore replies in the thread s/he cited (including the comment s/he so proudly self-quoted above), evading them by scurrying over here instead.
Here we have the perfect Trump era Booman Trib post.
The rapid decline of this blog is a perfect analogue to the rapid decline of the Democratic Party as a whole. As far as I am concerned, neither is going to recover any time soon.
I used to come here first thing. There were passionate discussions…including disagreements… going on and very little name calling? Now? The gang of Umpteen Centrists has taken over, pissing on everybody who disagrees with them.
Now I just drop in once in a while. And I am always disappointed.
Hope springs only semi-eternal.
AG
self-awareness, coming from you:
Sporting of you to warn us right up top of what was coming, though. Kudos for that!
May this trend continue to its logical terminus:
Because we inhabitants of the Reality-Based Community, with our annoying insistence that “discussions”, even “passionate discussions…including disagreements” must still be grounded — or at the very least, not in direct conflict with — the facts that comprise Reality (the only definition of “Centrist” that could be inferred from your whine) have just become SO intolerable!
Alternately raging about, whining about, and engaging in tit-for-tat downrating is the example found in all dictionaries under “hypocrisy” (obviously, I kid).
I suppose accurately identifying hypocrisy as hypocrisy (and therefore, inevitably, a hypocrite as a hypocrite) is in some sense “name-calling”. In the same sense, that is, that identifying a grape as “a grape” is “name-calling”.
A nonsensical response.
There are precisely 3 users who slur, and then troll rate. Everyone with a passing familiarity with the discussion here knows who they are.
They simply want to cause trouble. For the most part they are incapable of reasoned argument.
They simply accuse others – nailbar did – of being republicans.
How that squares with a reality based community is beyond me – but you appear to want to make excuses for them and their behavior.
I don’t agree with much about AG or Oui. But I have never gotten involved in silly troll ratings. they want to argue.
Failing to distinguish their behavior from others is willfully ignorant.
Just off the top of my head, oui, marie3, and AG quite regularly downrate comments they disagree with (independently of any validity/merits to the contents), including infantile, tit-for-tat retaliation downrates.
As oui did to my comment just up-thread there. (You may now note the absence of retaliatory downrate from me.) Whatever disagreement s/he (or you) might have with the content of that comment, it quite clearly does not fit any reasonable definition of “trolling”.
Or were they the “precisely 3 users” you meant? (“Everyone with a passing familiarity with the discussion here knows who they are.”)
Retaliatory downrates are the very essence of hypocrisy. ” . . . but you appear to want to make excuses for them and their behavior.”
(I’ve already addressed nalbar’s “Republicans” slur.)
“But I have never gotten involved in silly troll ratings.” Me, neither! I consider them ridiculous (and, have I mentioned, infantile?). Finally, a welcome point of agreement!
You really have no clue as to the instigaors. You hide behind off the top of my head”.
Your wrong both as to the facts and any reasonable interpretation of them
whether I have any clue about “the instigaors” as I haven’t addressed any such subject in any way at all. It forms no part of what I have written about here. I “hide” nothing behind anything. The lack of any attempt to deny or refute that any of the commenters I mentioned routinely engage in retaliatory tit-for-tat downrating, either from you or them, is telling.
I invited you to demonstrate that, or how, I am “wrong about the facts”.
You declined, but now go on to declare anyway that it is so.
A clue for you: it doesn’t work that way. You declaring something doesn’t make it so.
However, the actual “interpretation” that has been my actualsubject here is spot-on, correct, the opposite of “wrong”.
Since you seem to have difficulty keeping what I’ve actually written about here in focus, here, I’ll re-iterate it for you again. It’s simple enough: retaliatory tit-for-tat downrates are both childish and hypocritical.
(Subordinate point that I also actually did make: choice to ignore substantive responses in thread and instead scurry over here to keep the hypocritical childishness going in a diary was cowardly.)
Your decision to avoid my actual subject at all costs is duly noted.
And here we have the perfect contemporary BooTrib thread.
Snipe, snipe, countersnipe.
The use of the term “reality-based community” is a final, funereal symptom of this decay. Seriously!!!??? After what just happened to so-called progressivism in the election? After Karl Rove’s accurate and quite public assessment of that specious idea as long ago as 2002?
After the final descent of the “reality-based community” dKos into a DemCentrist circle jerk? “
Please!!!
The trajectory of this site is now thoroughly downward. I am reminded of My Left Wing’s eventual demise.
It really makes me sad.
Booman had a good thing going here for quite a while.
So it goes.
Down like a motherfucker.
Too bad.
Thanks.
AG
responded to a downrate (whether of me or someone else) that I disagreed with with a tit-for-tat downrate (as I just now noticed the howling hypocrite oui again did here, not that I care; I only point it out as yet more evidence of his/her hypocrisy).
I pity anyone so insecure as to feel compelled to do so. I find such childishness pathetic.
You defended it my thread.
You self-righteousness is absurd.
Nailbar is one of the prime down rates – and he initiate it – and other people are responding in kind.
Which is obvious to everyone.
in kind” is both hypocritical and childish. (But I repeat myself.)
I defended what in what thread (that you own?!?!)? Since you neither define “it” nor link to “your” thread, this is impossible to refute. Still I suspect that if “it” were defined and the thread specified, this claim would not hold up.
Your self-righteousness is absurd.
Which is obvious to everyone.
How Trump’s savvy army won the internet war – The Guardian