When I was a kid, I was fascinated by World War Two. Veterans of the war were still around in large numbers, my parents had lived through the war as pre-teens, and there were movies and board games and dozens of books to read. I soaked up as much as I could. Some kids gravitated to the Civil War, but I was all about names like Anzio and Iwo Jima and Stalingrad.
Much later, I finally grimly sat down to take a look at Mein Kampf. It was so sickening that I couldn’t complete it. What struck me, though, is how Hitler had laid out his ideas and plans so clearly. I’d been told so many times that people didn’t know what he was going to do (or even what he was doing), but in the book it was all spelled out in detail.
I mention this because my inclination is to kind of discount it when Donald Trump talks about his desire to torture and massacre Muslims, and to desecrate their religion. I’ve been around Trump since I was a pre-teen growing up in the shadow of the Big Apple. I’ve never taken him seriously about anything. And I’ve never seen him as any kind of threat. For most of the time I’ve been watching him, he hasn’t even been a hateful person.
So, it’s hard for me to adjust to the things he’s saying now. It seems like an act, and almost like a prank.
But I haven’t forgotten how people misjudged another guy who said he wanted to massacre a religious minority.
That’s why I think we ought to err on the side of caution and take him at his word.
Religious tribalism is much more likely to produce that outcome than nationalism alone.
I’m more worried by Cruz.
In a perverse way, I see Trump taking his cues from his supporters. Hmm, I see Amanda Marcotte thinks so, too.
She makes a good point about his feedback loop… http://www.salon.com/2015/12/08/trumps_no_leader_hes_just_the_voice_that_the_ugliest_americans_have_
been_dying_for/
So are there USians who would urge genocide? Duh. The question is where would they stop?
I agree with you. Trump is one serious sociopath. But I don’t much care for Cruz either. But while we are on the subject let’s throw in robot Rubio. Where did these bozos come from?
They come from the dark reaches of the American psyche, Jonf. The same places that bred people like Father Coughlin, Joe McCarthy, Richard Nixon, Ronald Reagan, John Wayne, Henry Kissinger and Dick Cheney. The same places that produced things like the Native American genocide, slavery, segregation and the Ku Klux Klan.
Why do you ask?
You think this is something new!!!???
Please.
AG
Are a difficult ‘look-in-the-mirror’ for all concerned; not a pretty sight. America’s better angels need to have a deep and meaningful with our dark side. Perhaps that’s what this cycle is about; parading our collective id around like a golden calf until we become weary and heartsick of doing it. It wouldn’t be the first time.
I hope you’re right…
AG
Just dressed for the GOP primary in South Carolina, the rhetoric towards pope Francis came in handy!
○ Trump Spokeswoman’s Twitter History Is a Goldmine of Embarrassment
○ Pope Francis to address legacy of violence, discrimination and poverty in southern Mexican state; is bound to rouse Mayan people – and the Zapatistas
… his early stance as anti-Catholic. But that can change at will at any moment for Donald, while speaking at the spur-of-the-moment …
“He’s extremely complicated, both religiously and politically. He’s been reported
to have been a Catholic, a member of the Dutch Reformed Church, a Presbyterian
and he married his third wife in an Episcopalian church.”
The Catholic vote in America are IMMIGRANTS from Poles, the Irish, Italians to the Spanish speaking citizens from Cailfornia across the southern states.
It’s a matter of time, but the Donald will fall on his face. He is all full of being a christian for PR purpose and the evangelicals love their new missionary of the faith in wealth as a grace from their god. Just like the Jews in the Sinai and the golden calf, waiting for a sign of Jahweh to enter their promised land. What a sad, sad world we live in .. yet that was prophesied in the old testament too, wasn’t it if I remember correctly.
If anyone in the Republican line-up of candidates manages to pull off victory for the White House in November, the likelyhood of a great ball of fire in the Middle East has moved the doomsday clock forward to 10 seconds before 00:00 hours.
Conservatism in Catholic America is centered with the hierarchy, not by it’s base the parishioners.
○ Pew Center: The Catholic “Swing Vote” – Oct. 2012
○ Nine-in-Ten Catholics View Pope Francis Favorably
It’s frightening, especially because his bizarre personality and history of saying all sorts of things can make him seem potentially the most benign of a truly malevolent bunch – who knows what he would end up doing as President? Trump is sort of all over the map that it’s not impossible that he would end up being a one term ineffectual idiot who does limited damage and maybe even one or two good things, like Jesse Ventura in Minnesota. But it’s also easy to overlook, because it’s so awful that no one really wants to discuss it, that Trump is a pure fascist candidate.
He can be charming in an unfiltered larger than life way (which seems to work for a lot of people, though it has never worked for me). He’s not on anyone’s team – he’ll tell the elites in any party to go f** themselves – so you know the old rules aren’t going to hold him back from what needs to be done. He can lull people into thinking that he’s not as dangerous as he very well may be or maybe even help things along by shaking up status quo.
He can pull it off. He’s still my bet for winning the Republican nomination and while I don’t think he’ll win the general election, he could. He’s extremely dangerous.
All you have to do is learn not to look.
So let’s be logical. What do you do with an excess workforce? In the thirties you could move them to Detroit to bust strikes. And excess bodies are always good for wars. But you live in a world with a contracting economy. What to do with all these useless bread gobblers?
I was thinking this morning how I don’t think I can listen to any of the horse race bs on the media anymore while enough of my countrymen have gone full NAZI to be truly scary.
Well…there is an important difference between Hitler and Trump. Hitler was an ideologue. A megalomaniacal one, for sure, but he had a set of preconceived notions of what was going wrong in the world and no qualms whatsoever about permanently eliminating and/or enslaving the various races and cultures that in his view were the culprits.
Trump? He’s an equal opportunity hater. You disagree with him, he hates you. You think he’s not the-hottest-thing-ever? He hates you. You change your mind about him…or even act like you’ve changed your mind? He loves you. He’s not a “racist” per se, he’s just a massively egocentric user with a shitload of money.
Anybody who seriously considers trying to be president of the U.S. must first reconcile the plain fact that he or she will have to willingly be responsible for the deaths of many, many people and the total ruination of many more lives. That idea alone seems to me to be the main reason why most of our presidents have been …shall we say generously say “Unchristian”…at heart. One cannot be president and truly follow the way of Christ as we have been taught it in the New Testament. No two ways about it. Nonviolence is not in the presidential playbook. Bet on it.
That said…if Hitler had been in a situation where Jews and other “lesser races” in no way threatened his belief in a master race, he still would have hated them. Trump? He’ll hire any fool who will effectively lick his ass and does whatever job to which he or she has been assigned flawlessly. Bet on that as well. Gardener, head negotiator or anywhere in between, he’s not only an equal-opportunity hater but an equal-opportunity user as well.
Just sayin’…the tactics for dealing with a Hitlerian opponent and those for dealing with a Trumpist opponent must necessarily differ. Hitler was batshit crazy. Win, lose or draw, he was going to do what he was going to do. Trump is crazy like a fox. He just wants to make a profit. And have his ass licked in the process, of course.
Just sayin’…
Crazy like a fox.
AG
truly follow the way of Christ as we have been taught it in the New Testament
I’m not a Christian religiously or culturally, and have no idea about you, AG. I’ve nonetheless read the Gospels as a way to be generally familiar with one of the touchstones of Western culture.
Violating “the way of Christ” has been a pretty constant feature (not a bug) of so-called Christian societies from the get go.
Trump and Cruz make have differences in detail but not IMHO in their basic orientations. They are both stone cold sociopaths who would quite happily order war crimes and violent repression if they felt it would advance their agendas.
SO I take no comfort in your “crazy like a fox” formulation. I wish I could but I can’t.
MIGHT have differences. Sorry.
If you have noticed this about Trump. You can be assured that there are those in the world who recognize Trump as a Hitler want a be also. These groups look for this and watch very closely. Right now they are evaluated whether Trump is just full of BS or not. If he is not they will act accordingly.
Can read Mein Kampf. Anyone who claims to have read it is lying.
Remarkable comment. What are you getting at?
The usual 25-words-or-less on Mein Kampf is that it is appallingly badly written, nothing but a long chain of repeated but unsubtantiated assertions.
Apparently George Orwell did read it, but presumably got paid for his pains. 🙂
If we could go into the Wayback Machine and have Donald Trump running for President in 1924, is there any doubt that these smiling people would be a core part of his base?
I met someone on a hike some weeks ago (MeetUp group hike). Person apparently was born in Ecuador but is of European/white (German) descent. Family allegedly in Ecuador since the late 19th C. Land owners, merchants, wealthy by their standards.
Hiker claims that somewhat recently (I looked around for a short time and didn’t see any links, so I don’t know for sure) either the current or a recent PM said that everyone in Ec. of European descent should go back to Europe. Hiker, who has full US citizenship & lives here (but has numerous relatives in Ec), was outraged!!11!! by this. How DARE the PM say that?? My family has lived there for generations!!!
I quietly said: well some of the current pres. candidates are saying that ALL Mexicans must leave the USA and maybe even all Muslims.
Hiker immediately said: “I’m a Republican, and I really don’t want to talk about this. But Obama never said anything like that. And it’s ‘only’ illegal Mexicans who have to leave.” Irony appears to have flown over this person’s head.
I said (quietly): “But candidates are saying ALL Mexican Americans MUST leave no matter how long they’ve lived here & no matter whether legal or illegal or living here for generations.”
Hiker says: “I think it’s inappropriate to discuss politics on a hike, so we need to stop this conversation.”
Me: (internal sigh and eye roll).
Cognitive dissonance abounds. Obama hasn’t threatened to deport all Hispanic Americans, but this Trump supporter (I later found this out for sure) appears only too willing to ignore what the man has said in no uncertain terms. And somehow, it’s “ok” because… I simply don’t know!
Do I find Trump’s rhetoric frightening? YES. Do I think Trump would follow through? It’s possible. It’s certainly the tip of the iceberg, isn’t it? Ignore at the peril of all of us.
We all know what Martin Neimoller said. Just as true today, as it was back then.
I follow a lot of African wildlife pages on FB. You would probably not be shocked to hear that non-blacks hear the same from some segment of the political establishment. They are NOT considered citizens, no matter how many generations preceded them. Economically failing states are creating a lot of simmering nationalism/tribalism.
I’m quite sure that Don isn’t running for dog catcher, so I surely take his words seriously. As I have said here before, I’m totally confused over which GOP candidate I would rather the Dem candidate face. I do know with certainty though that the current number one and two and three scare me to death. Nightly I ask that my countrymen will come to their senses before this ugly mess destroys us. I can only hope someone upstairs is listening.
Take ALL of these GOP/Republican domestic terrorist at their word when it comes to marginalizing “other” Americans!
The GOP/Republican governance in 21st Century America is NOT being done in the dark …it is NOT being hidden.
Only willful ignorance allows one to have amnesia about Bush/Cheney, GOP/Republican governance 2000-20008 …wars, invasions, torture, mishandled economy, massive unemployment, near collapse of the US economy, destabilizing the Middle East.
AND, GOP/Republican governance since 2009 to present, MOST obstructive political Party toward a sitting President since the US Civil War, most filibusters in US history, 2 of the WORST US Congress’ (113th and 114th) in US history, voter suppression, the poisoning of a US city of 100,000 Americans, attempt to repeal 20th Century America in its entirety …..