Today’s Guardian brings another reminder from Seymour Hersh that we are letting the Bush Administration off the hook on Abu Ghraib and it brings into stark relief the necessity of keeping this fight going. Yes, Gonzales has been confirmed, Bush re-elected, but it is still your America too. And we all have a right & obligation to keep the pressure on, demand justice for those “rendered” and incarcerated without due process or Geneva protections around the world.
It’s been a year since Abu Ghraib and what do we know?
The abuse continues unabated. One Commanding Officer has been reprimanded & she claims she’s the patsy. Many, many others have been let off the hook. Message heard loud and clear: Pentagon & WH doesn’t care. Few bad apples and all that.
Hersh revisits Abu Ghraib and tells us that there are many things that we still don’t know yet that he does.
[on the flip]
….
There is much more to be learned. What do I know? A few things stand out. I know of the continuing practice of American operatives seizing suspected terrorists and taking them, without any meaningful legal review, to interrogation centres in south-east Asia and elsewhere. I know of the young special forces officer whose subordinates were confronted with charges of prisoner abuse and torture at a secret hearing after one of them emailed explicit photos back home. The officer testified that, yes, his men had done what the photos depicted, but they – and everybody in the command – understood such treatment was condoned by higher-ups.
What else do I know? I know that the decision was made inside the Pentagon in the first weeks of the Afghanistan war – which seemed “won” by December 2001 – to indefinitely detain scores of prisoners who were accumulating daily at American staging posts throughout the country. At the time, according to a memo, in my possession, addressed to Donald Rumsfeld, there were “800-900 Pakistani boys 13-15 years of age in custody”. I could not learn if some or all of them have been released, or if some are still being held.
A Pentagon spokesman, when asked to comment, said that he had no information to substantiate the number in the document, and that there were currently about 100 juveniles being held in Iraq and Afghanistan; he did not address detainees held elsewhere. He said they received some special care, but added “age is not a determining factor in detention … As with all the detainees, their release is contingent upon the determination that they are not a threat and that they are of no further intelligence value. Unfortunately, we have found that … age does not necessarily diminish threat potential.”
The 10 official inquiries into Abu Ghraib are asking the wrong questions, at least in terms of apportioning ultimate responsibility for the treatment of prisoners. The question that never gets adequately answered is this: what did the president do after being told about Abu Ghraib? It is here that chronology becomes very important.
[snip – go read the article, it’s classic, haunting, detailed, Hersh (not as long as his New Yorker pieces & he excerpts the story of the tatooed soldier from “Chain of Command”)]
Three days later the army began an investigation. But it is what was not done that is significant. There is no evidence that President Bush, upon learning of the devastating conduct at Abu Ghraib, asked any hard questions of Rumsfeld and his own aides in the White House; no evidence that they took any significant steps, upon learning in mid-January of the abuses, to review and modify the military’s policy toward prisoners. I was told by a high-level former intelligence official that within days of the first reports the judicial system was programmed to begin prosecuting the enlisted men and women in the photos and to go no further up the chain of command.
[all emphasis mine]
Abu Ghraib alone should have brought down this Administration. No WMDs and an illegal war should have brought them down. Maybe it’s religious fervor that will finally do it… but only if we keep the pressure on all of these important issues.
this morning. It gives me hope that with the damning NY Times piece this weekend (Part II is due out soon), we might begin to see other “journalists” put pressure on the Administration… or not. One can only hope.
Cross posted at Daily Kos
I’m glad you found it for us
And no one can deny that Washington acted with all due haste to effect this immediately upon release of the photos.
Absolutely. Take away the instruments to record history and history never happened.
Keep on it Spiderleaf. I can’t get past this line:
That is why I object so much to the term “War on Terror” because it is
under that title that the US gives itself permission to just grab
anyone and put them in concentration camps. Their treatment
afterwards as described by Hersh and by their own military reports is criminal.
When do the House, the Senate and the White House start paying attention.
There needs to be some loud screaming about this.
“US gives itself permission. . .”
I felt the need to clarify that comment. It’s this horrific administration, not the country as a whole. (And I don’t want to be connected to those horrible rat bastards in any way, shape or form)
Times like this, I miss Paul Wellstone more than ever.
I usually try to emphasize the fact that this
Bush administration is not the American people.
Only 51% of the electorate voted for him (maybe)
and I bet that many of those 51% have their
regrets.
I should have qualified it to “the Bush administration.”
I miss him too.
No need for “sorries” – that was merely an “oops”. (I have no doubt that I’ve done the same thing in some of my posts) It just sends chills up my spine to be affiliated with those goons.
(And I’m still waiting for proof that the 51% electorate EVER existed)
Peace
In the past, there has been a tendency in the Majority World to make a distinction between US policies and US population.
That is not the case today. And I regret to say, there is no reason for it to be the case.
Almost all Americans support implementation of current US policies, although many of them feel that they should be presented more diplomatically, and that more of the profits from them should trickle down to a larger swath of the taxpayers.
Almost all Americans support implementation of current US policies, although many of them feel that they should be presented more diplomatically, and that more of the profits from them should trickle down to a larger swath of the taxpayers.
WTF??????? Please name the specific policies, and the individuals who fall under the category of “almost all Americans”.
I can’t think of a time when I’ve disagreed with any of your comments, Ductape – but you have me immensely puzzled with this one.
i have to agree with anomalous in this one, Ducty – it’s gross generalization, hardly supported by gallups we’ve been seeing recently.
Recant your Rant! π
Then, like, um, how come you gave Ducky a 4? :^)
On another note – I’ve been curious as to where you’re located, Sven.
U.S. or otherwise? (Forgive me if I missed a bio)
Giving Ducty a 4 is a nervous tic I have π
As you say yourself, he is usually right on the money.
I’m in Scandinavia. In Finland at this very moment – and it’s been a mini-heatwave today. Sadly too bright for the powerbook to go outside.
But then ya went and gave him another 4! :^)
In reference to your locale – thanks – that’s what I thought. Last week I spent a couple days in (highly ethnic) northern MN, visiting my father in a nursing home. There was a bulletin board with upcoming activities, and it mentioned church services conducted in Finnish. (In other words, you’d fit right in – up there in that neck of the woods)
I SAID it was a nervous tic!
Anyway, giving points here is a bit like Eurovision. It’s more a sense of neighbourliness than an exact science. It’s easy to become TU, and very hard to lose it. But of course diary recommends are more important. Like you I am not a great diary contributor, I prefer the cut and thrust of commenting – serious or comic.
Actually I speak Finnish like an Estonian horse and my Swedish is even worse. But in Sweden and Denmark almost everyone enjoys speaking English – which is my native language.
Yes, ‘neck of the woods’ sounds good
As someone at Nokia once said ‘All we have in Finland are trees and brains’
US mainstream opinion. Even kos does not. For a virtual sampling of that, try the yahoo boards, some of the larger AOL or MSN ones. Even Free Republic is closer to mainstream than here.
You can be confident that the day the US crosses the line and implements a policy that is at significant variance with the will and values of a majority of Americans, those Americans will dust off that dusty old Declaration of Independence and make Caracas after the attempted coup look like a a large family out for a Sunday scroll.
Americans are not sheep, and they are not stupid, and they know more about what they want than any pollster does. You and I may not agree with them, we may not even agree that it is in their best interest. In fact, speaking for myself, I am 100% sure it is not in their best interest.
But it is their will. And their money they willingly spend to see it done. And despite the erosion of civil liberties in the US, Americans are not chained to the floor in cages. Yet.
I have to agree with the comment from one of the Republicans (Mehlman?) who said that middle America doesn’t have time to read the NYT and keep up with what’s going on. (Obviously highly paraphrased on my part)
I sincerely believe that a majority of Americans would disagree with the current policies – if they were aware of them. (Keeping in mind that I still don’t believe the results of the last election – which is another discussion altogether.) They don’t realize that Democrats are being shut out of important discussions, and that many times they don’t have representation at all. This is not a reflection of sheep mentality or stupidity; I believe it’s a reflection of citizens who are uninformed or ill-informed. (Then again, I do not visit places like Yahoo discussion groups)
In speaking with no less than ten intelligent friends during separate conversations a couple weeks ago, not one of them were familiar with the name John Bolton. More frightening yet, they did not understand the implications of the current filibuster issue. These are astute professionals, who make every attempt to keep up with the news. But they’re also working 50-60 hours a week, raising children and worrying about things like healthcare costs and Johnny’s recent suspension from school for getting caught with weed. And most of the folks I speak with don’t believe the words of any politician.
Outside the blogosphere, I’ve found that the only individuals (I speak with) who seem fully aware of what’s going on are retirees. And those retirees (who I speak with) don’t like the policies one bit. Or, in the words of my 86 year old mother, “I’ve given up caring, because I won’t be around for any of these horrendous policies to effect me”.
The average citizen is not aware of the behind-the-scenes issues, such as the witholding of actuarial information related to funding the Medicare bill. Or the hidden attachments to major legislation. Or any of the issues in the 142 page document drafted by Louise Slaughter. And even if they are aware, I don’t know of anyone who feels they have the power to do anything about it.
This is a right on assessment in my opinion Anomalous. I’ve noticed the change in myself as I delt with personal issues and started working 50-60 hour weeks again… I would miss out on important news and not even know it… and I get 2 papers a day and watch CBC News in the morning. But it didn’t sink in and I didn’t have time to read it in depth, just skim.
I wrote about my experiences and how I felt they could be applied to communicating with the ‘masses’ by translating the issues into personal issues for the person you are interacting with. Check it out if you’re so inclined.
Thank you VERY much for directing me to that diary, Spiderleaf. Virtually everything you presented – and the way in which you presented it – reflects my personal situation and emotions at this moment in time. (Except, of course, that I lack your skills in articulating those thoughts in a diary)
I too, seek every opportunity to discuss politics with individuals of varying demographics – in the very same manner in which you suggested. But with recent family issues and work projects overwhelming my life, I’ve had to take a step back. (While feeling it’s my personal duty – as a highly informed citizen -to be sharing my knowledge with family and friends.) Damn – if I miss one day of my typical current events research – it feels like the world has left me behind.
As long as I can remember, I’ve thoroughly enjoyed lively, passionate political discussions with my parents. A few weeks ago, my father needed to move to a nursing home, and my mother is now alone in an apartment – so my priorities have shifted dramatically. During a visit last week, I was pretty surprised to find my mother watching a Seinfeld rerun. When I questioned her program selection, she told me it was either that or Hardball (which she had watched religiously for years), and she’s had enough of bullshit politics and needs the humor.
And when we went to visit my father (who has advanced Alzheimer’s with good days and bad days) I figured I’d test the water by mentioning the president. And bless my father’s heart – the immediate words out of his mouth were, “What did that SOB do NOW“.
Since I haven’t had the time or passion to be as involved in politics as I’d like to be, I’ve been sending my friends and family members copies of Hersch and Krugman articles. Needless to say, they’ve been very effective. And I thank you again for posting this one!
.
to ME and many others!
Thank you and keep at it as much as is possible.
Oui – Liberté – Egalité – Fraternité
While on a mission to find a quote from an old thread, I ran across your comment above – which I hadn’t seen before. I don’t know the likelihood of you seeing this response at such a late date, but I wanted to thank you very much for your thoughtful words. Perfectly timed for my viewing after a crap filled week. You’ve made my day and I wish you the best of everything!
Considering it’s late at night with very few eyes viewing comments (including your eyes in your time zone). . .I still don’t understand the “dot” above your comments. Not to put you under pressure, but please explain it in the simplest of terms – to align with the way in which my mind absorbs new information. (Because you lost me in your last explanation oh so many weeks ago)
My best to you (but only if you’re able to explain the “dot” to my satisfation :^).
.
Alignment and spacing, that’s all!
(Because you lost me in your last explanation oh so many weeks ago)
One of my personal characteristics or deviations, I count them before going to sleep, is a sense of organization and spacing for ease of reading. At dKos, my first blog, there is some spacing between comment title and content. The dot gives me that extra space at BooTrib, where this spacing is lacking. The dot separation gives me peace of mind, although I never considered it could harass someone else. That was not my intention, sorry about that. The previous answer was in a LOL period of my life and must not be taken aux sérieux.
There is still a chance to be friends? I will repent of course.
Pax
Oui – Liberté – Egalité – Fraternité
Oh my, my, my! My comment was merely presented in jest and curiosity. Harrass? Good heavens, no!! Aux serieux? Please do continue with your LOL self! In our first round of discussion, I felt too ignorant to continue – although fully understanding your response was intended with humor. You see. . .
I thought the dot represented a form of superior technology. More specifically, I thought you were writing your comments in another program – Word, perhaps, and the “dot” represented the means in which your writing was transferred from that program to this site. But it didn’t make sense – from any angle – that you’d have the ability to do so in such a rapid manner. (Unless, of course, you are both an international speed-typing champion and an uber tech wizard.)
Thinking that you held the keys to the aforementioned “advanced technology” I too wanted to employ the use of “the dot”. (Because, um, I thought it was Oui’s own little “Da Vinci code” of sorts :^) And that, I hope, will provide you a good source of laughter.
My own personal quirks (“characteristics and deviations”) are infinite, to be sure. So penance or not, my dear, dot to your heart’s content – whenever and whereever you choose! And if you do find a way to incorporate writing into a dot. . .please do share! :^) Peace
What to believe? Dumpster Divers vs the Intelligent Mainstream
It did! In the world outside the United States it brought the credibility
and the reputation of the administration down as low as it could get.
Within the USA, the White House continues, business as usual,
confident of their power.
Absolutely, sybil. Americans(most of them) are going to be the very last to realize exactly what Abu Ghraib and Bushco have done to our country and our country’s standing-or lack thereof-in the world.
I don’t know what it’s going to take(I wish I knew) at this point for Americans to have the scales fall from their eyes and see what has happened to our country and what we’re doing to others. Most importantly all the damage and carnage we are inflicting on other countries and their people.
And thank god for Sy Hersh.
Agreed. As I said in my first diary – Osama couldn’t have purchased a better ad campaign for jihad had he spent his entire fortune on Madison Ave.
And he got it all for free…