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Colonel Pappas Responds: "Arab Muslim Mind One of Treachery"

Steven D

I posted a diary yesterday about my email conversation with Colonel Bob Pappas regarding the Newsweek controversy.  If you want more details please feel free to go read it before proceeding to this diary as I won’t be going over all the details that I’ve already posted in that diary.

For those of you pressed for time, suffice it to say that Mr. Pappas is a rather fervent right wing conservative Christian who wrote in a column online that Newsweek deliberately posted a story it knew to be a lie because it is part of a liberal media that hates America and it’s military. I responded to that story and we’ve now had several email exchanges.  What follows is his latest response.  I haven’t changed a word of what he wrote, nor corrected any spelling errors.  His words speak for themselves.

More after the break . . .
What follows are excerpts from my last email, which are included but because Mr. Pappas specifically responded to each of these points.  Excerpts from my email will be italicized, and his response to it put in block quotes.

Dear Mr. Pappas:

Thanks for your response to my email.  You ask me if I considered whether the allegations contained in the recently released FBI reports were lies concocted by “the enemy”.  To answer you: yes, yes I have.

Is it possible that all these allegations are lies?  It’s possible (anything is possible) but consider the following:

1.  The Defense Department has released documents that evidence systemic abuse of the Koran, and also evidence a specific training program put in place at Guantanimo to avoid future abuse.  Obviously someone in the military believed the allegations or they wouldn’t have put in steps to stop the abuse from continuing.

I disagree that it is obvious.  It is not obvious that someone believed the allegations, what is obvious is that the allegations prompted them to put rules in place without regard to their veracity to head off the possibility.

2.  These FBI reports were conducted in 2002, before prisoners were allowed to mix together.  If they are lies, it’s an amazing coincidence that so many of them independently came up with the same lies.

I don’t regard it as an amazing coincidence. I understand the Arab Muslim mind, it is one of connivance and treachery. Nothing they concoct suprises me and I believe very little of what they allege. If one had pictures, I would believe it just as I believed the Abu Ghraib photos, although compared to beheadings for sport Abu Ghraib is a misquito.

3.  The FBI reports (collected at the ACLU website) specify whether upon further investigation the allegations made are considered to be unreliable.  The reports on the Koran abuse in question do not so indicate.

Of course, the ACLU would never, repeat never show anything that would undermine their preconception of events without regard to truth. Why would a obviously thinking man as yourself accept the ACLU’s word, which has a clear agenda, over those who risk their lives to enable the ACLU to do so?

 4.  These reports were also specifically excluded from the initial disclosure pursuant to the ACLU’s FOIA request, and the ACLU was required to obtain a  court order compelling the Federal Government to turn over copies of these FBI reports to the ACLU.  Clearly someone in the Federal Government was concerned enough about the validity of the allegations that they actively sought to keep them secret.

Simply because the ACLU sought a court order does not mean that the absence of the information implied wrongdoing. It is a routine practice in all administrations, in all departments, to exclude information that could be potentially harmful to the security of the United States.  If the information proved to be true, it would harm US security, despite the fact that it would have been an improper action, so it follows that it would have been excluded on that premise alone. Is that a good policy? If it protects the lives of Americans on the battlefield and at home, the answer is and unequovical, “yes.”  

5.  Whistle blowers in the military have come forward with reports which authenticate other allegations made by the Guantanimo detainees (for example, allegations of beatings and of humiliation regarding religious practices such as that where women interrogators attempted to sexually arouse detainees, touched their genitals, and threw what they claimed to be menstrual blood on them, all things anathema to observant Muslims).  These practices of attempted religious desecration which have been confirmed support the allegations of Koran abuse evidenced in the FBI reports.

Assuming the humiliating tactics are true, which I doubt, (I’ve read no reports of “whistle blowers” reporting sexual and menstrual activities), I would have been first in line to condemn such a practice, it is a mental leap to conclude that the allegation of flushing is true. Be careful not to conclude that allegations of abuse by internees in an FBI report is the same as evidence. It isn’t.

 I’ve yet to hear any evidence that demonstrates these allegations are not credible.  Instead we keep seeing more and more details come out about the systematic abuse, both physical and psychological, that is being inflicted on the detainees held at Guantanimo and elsewhere.

So, one can lie, claim it is true and since no one steps forward to debunk the lie, you assume it to be credible. Unfortunately, that does not follow logically. I would expect the internees at Guantanamo to be subjected to physical and psychological harassment to extract as much information from them as possible, which is not abuse when the nation is at war, and it is in a war for its survival despite misguided arguments to the contrary.  These are not criminals under the jurisdiction of the liberal US court system well molded by the influence of the ACLU to protect the guilty through a web of trickery rather than determine whether or not a perpetrator is in fact guilty. OJ Simpson is a prime and well known example.  They are enemy combatants who were captured in the course of combat. There are no civil liberties available or should there be any accorded to them. In fact in many cases the Geneva Convention does not apply because they were not uniformed combatants.

I’d also like to point out that Newsweek’s story was sent to the Pentagon for vetting before it was published (an unprecedented move in itself) and the officials there did not object to the story regarding Koran abuse.  Indeed, the later objection to the story by the Administration never denied that the abuse took place, but only that it did not appear in the specific report where Newsweek’s source had claimed he had seen it.

If your research on the subject found the same information that I have found, the Pentagon didn’t approve or disapprove because the investigation was ongoing. If you were to send something to me for vetting and I was not ready to comment, would the fact that I am not ready clear  anyone to run a fallacious story whose clear intent was to besmirch ones own country in particular in the eyes of an already prejudiced Arab world? I think not.

 As for the claim that Newsweek intentionally planted this story in order to discredit our armed forces, and is thus responsible for the deaths of rioters and soldiers, I notice that you didn’t address the remarks made by President Karzai and General Myers, that the Koran desecration story was not responsible for the riots in Afghanistan.  Now perhaps both Karzai and Myers are lying, but I suggest that there is a strong likelihood that they were telling the truth.  At the very least, their comments should give any reasonable person pause before jumping on the “Newsweek killed” bandwagon.

It is possible that they are lying to quell the outrage against Newsweek, but they would probably characterize it differently. If memory serves me correctly,  I wrote my piece before the  Meyers /Karzai statements reported today. And while we are on the subject of information reported today, please note the following article.  http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/26/politics/26cnd-koran.html?ei=5065&en=acc4abbd5d55e35f&ex=1

117771200&partner=MYWAY&pagewanted=print

 I don’t think it does our country our soldiers any favors to cover-up the torture and abuse of detainees in this “War on Terror” nor to lay the blame at the feet of a few “rogue elements”  as you claim in your article.  I would hope that you would support a full and independent investigation of these allegations to either clear the reputations of our Armed Forces or discover the truth and place the blame on those to whom it rightly belongs.  This would be the American way to respond to these claims, not with increased secrecy, cover-ups and the smearing of the reputations of those (whether whistleblowers or in the Media ) who have reported about these charges.

Nor do I believe it does our national security any good for us to air our dirty linen to the world. If there was abuse that violated rules or law, then appropriate action should be taken, including severe discipline, but to air it to the Muslim world that would not know truth if it hit them in the face does little to insure the safety of our military and civilians at home or abroad.

Put closer to home, if you were caught with your pants down in a compromising position, would you want it aired to your enemies who would cut your head off for sport because of it? I think not.

Here is the link to the ACLU webpage which contains further links to the FBI and Defense Department documents that have been released so far in response to the FOIA requests:  http://action.aclu.org/site/PageServer?pagename=torturefoia

I hope you will avail yourself of the opportunity to review those documents yourself before reaching any definitive conclusion about who is lying about these claims of abuse and torture.

I stand by my earlier essay.
Semper Fidelis,
Bob P

<u>To sum up Col Pappas response</u&gt:

  1.  DOD put procedures put in place in 2003 for avoiding mistreatment of the Koran had nothing to do with reports of abuses.
  2.  Arabs are tracherous and conniving and I don’t believe a thing they say unless I have photographic proof (like the Abu Gharaib photos).
  3.  You can’t believe the ACLU.  They have a liberal agenda and will lie to protect it.  You can believe the military however.
  4.  Better to keep this stuff secret, because it would save American lives.  Even if true, it should be kept hidden.
  5.  Who cares what Karzai and Myers said?  They may be lying to protect Newsweek anyway.  Besides, Newsweek ran a fallacious story!  And the Pentagon said the the detainee who alleged toilet flushing recanted.
  6.  Whistleblowers?  What whistleblower?  I haven’t read of any.
  7.  The detainees are liars and deserve what they get.  They’re not entitled to civil liberties.  They’re not covered by the Geneva Conventions anyway.  Torture is what you have to do to win a war.
  8.  You don’t air your dirty laundry in public.  Don’t give the Muslims any ammunition.

Since this is rather lengthy I will post my response in another diary.

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