First of all, thank you all for the kind words, the respectful chiding, the helpful advice, and the thoughtful reflections that you put in my Internecine Infighting diary.
It has certainly led me to rethink my position.
I think it’s time for another gender poll:
Now that’s the way to address a community!!Booman Rocks!
I am so glad I missed almost all of this weekend’s diaries….
We are learning our way and learning each other’s thoughts. We are a small town….when we get to be a big city….maybe we’ll fight /or not.
Thanks for asking and thanks for listening – it’s what makes us like it here at the frog pond!
a ?
How did you come up with the name BooMan?
I’d add to that list the terrific diaries from all over the world. Incredibly good.
Okay – we are at 318 comments on June 6….
We are being held hostage over there…
we are working on the archiving system 🙂
We have another project we are trying to roll out late this week or early next week…the big surprise!
And we will have some neat new features.
as to the big surprise?
non.
‘Thrills’ to CabinGirl for being persistent. </carnacki>
I am nothing if not persistent…
So, Boo, you’re taking French lessons from Melanchthon?
You’re going to post entirely in Latin all next week?
Melanchthon is teaching me the fine points of reading a French menu and I’m teaching him how to order a cheesesteak.
Cheesesteaks with Brie, mmmm…you’re having us all over for some of South Philly’s finest?
Or maybe an international cooking/food/wine site? Just when is the big secret going to be unveiled?
as we can cross the t’s and dot all the i’s.
We are working in 4 different time zones some 9 hours apart. It takes time.
Brie in a cheesesteack? You Barbarians!
Why not Roquefort with chocolate sauce!
I nearly troll-rated you for that!
ha!…you managed to combine my most favorite-chocolate- with one of my most dreaded food aversions-Roquefort to make your point in a rather beautifully sick cuisine sort of way.
Thank you for not troll rating me…I still think the brie would be a vast improvement over cheez whiz…perhaps on a batard with a glass of cotes du rhone to wash it down with?
I see you regained your hold on common sense…
I prefer some pain de campagne or pain aux noix with Brie. And Côtes du Rhône is all right, although to accompany cheese I’d rather have a lighter and fruitier red wine like Sancerre rouge or Saint Nicolas de Bourgueil…
Well, if we’re going with the Brie, pain aux noix and Sancerre rouge instead of the Cotes du Rhone, we can just skip the steak part…I’ll be right over!
Well, I’ve got the wine already, and I’ll buy some pain aux noix and some Brie tomorrow morning (together with some Salers and Saint Marcellin).
What time do you plan to arrive in Lyon? We could go and have a picnic in the Roman theatre: it’s a very nice place in June…
It’s a new cookbook: 1001 ways to cook frog legs byBooman…lol!
try being from the South!!!
.
Martin’s Blog – Dutch Ancestry – Boo(m)man!
BooMan existed in 1666, a century before the United States of America was founded! Talking about strong roots. Way to go Martin.
XIII. Cornelis Arijens Boonman, alias Cornelis Ariens Boomman, wonende “aen de suijtsijde” te Nieuw-Beijerland (1666), overleden na 06.03.1667; trouwt: Ariaentje Cornelisdr. , overleden na 05.10.1664.
[wonende~residing, overleden~died, trouwt~married, gedoopt~baptized]
Perhaps one of the Founding Fathers?
Caleb Johnson’s MayflowerHistory.com
Oui – Liberté – Egalité – Fraternité
Why? I thought you had it right. So what’s your position now?
I don’t know — to me it’s really discouraging to learn that the slowdown/stoppage at dKos was apparently due to the traffic load generated by this trivial battle. While the supremes’ trashing of the Bill of Rights and the basic rules of logic didn’t even make the front page.
The contrast makes me wonder whether political persuasions of any kind are anything more than mindless physical reactions of some kind — we were thinking one thing and the wind changed and we’ve believed that thought ever since. In a nation where unspoken fascism has always been the dirty little secret, liberalism is the best we can seem to get. But as the teapot tempest at DK shows, our side, whatever it is, can’t be counted on as much more than flypaper to hold a bunch of mutually exclusive — well, I suppose mutually indifferent would be more accurate — interests.
Think what we could be if we all worked for justice, equality, and fairness for everybody, and not just the bunch we happen to be part of. Lucky for us the folks on the other side work hard for injustice, inequality, and unfairness for everybody except the bunch they happen to be part of. Otherwise we’d be in Really Big trouble.
since you’re all into polling, do you feel dissed/ignored/superior that we don’t seem to get any flaming trolls of the DK kind over here? I have to think that’s at least part of the reason for the more genteel ambiance here.
We have few trolls for a couple of reasons. Mostly, the wingers don’t know we’re here. But we have had respectful disagreements with at least three right-wing sites w/o it bringing on flamewars.
I don’t worry about it. You all are ready to deal with trolls when they show up.
On your other point, I have a different opinion of Markos’s original post now that I realize that many people saw it not as a slip but a pattern.
Read your prior thread. You have good advisors here – which you obviously recognize.
GOOD news for New Yorkers today. No stadium on the West Side (at least for now).
(Warning. Kos – link above – is slooow tonight.)
Slower that molasses in January (depending on where you live… oh nevermind).
Kos seems to be down for “maintenance” just now.
Is this the stadium that Donald “I’m Bankrupt Again But I’m Going To Tell You How To Run A Business” Trump was trying to build over the old rail yards in the west 60s-70s? Or am I mixing that up with another obnoxious real estate proposal?
Actually no.
The site is in the West ’30s just south of the Javist Center.
Ah, yes, I remember it well. I drove into NY a couple of summers ago for a day event, first time there in several years. Down the West Side highway, and shockeroony, it was all bike paths and planters full of ferns and positively twee. Not sure if that was truly an improvement over the scummy, down-at-heels, seediness-with-character of the old piers or not.
yeah, i hope they stick a fork in that boondoggle. and as the teachers union commercials are saying, shouldn’t we put NYC’s huge surplus toward things that matter – like education?
http://womenkossacks.blogspot.com/
Check out this site where the ‘women kossaks’ have gone, I have posted invitation there to this site and other women members here might want to go there and speak of the virtues of Booman Trib.
no men allowed?
That’s the way it looks, no men welcome….but you are sure welcome here.
I am wondering if I should put up a new /welcome (tell us) diary for all the new users heading our way.. What do you all think..
Darn, a site full of Kossack Women…
Sounds like a perfect place to meet an intelligent progressive women. Oh well, perhaps I can finally be a troll at a progressive site. That would be a lot more fun than making heads pop over in freeperville 😛
Probably a good idea to put up your new /welcome (tell us) diary. I normally hang over there, but been here the last few days because of all the crap going on there (at dKos).
hfiend, I realize this response is really, really late – and likely meaningless at this point (but that’s never stopped me from expressing my thoughts) When I checked things out yesterday evening Carnacki had posted without any repurcussions. I highly doubt that you’d encounter any problems in posting at that site (unless of course that was your purpose ;^)
Diane,
I took a quick look at the initial post, and it doesn’t look to me like no men allowed. Rather, like a place where women might be able to discuss issues of import to them as women. Dunno. Will have to see how it evolves.
But isn’t it interesting? Here we are, more than 30 years after the so-called “women’s liberation movement” began, and folks still get to hyperventilating over gender issues.
I for one, accepted your invitation. Thank you. From what I’ve seen here so far, I suspect others will also. Ah – the peace…
Be sure to go over to my new welcome diary and check in with us. Really it is a custom here, we like to make new folks feel at home.
You will see!!!!!!!
You’re the best, Diane! Thanks for keeping this fun tradition going.
I also visited the women’s blog you recommended.
i tell you, my mind has been swirling with memories of sexist humiliations or slights Iv’e endured over the years, and I’m wanting to dump all that history somewhere.
Is anyone else feeling similarly? Should we start up a story or diary where women can share their own personal experiences?
I’ve certainly been having some bad flashbacks ever since the issue was raised.
I think this might be a good idea susan…this continues to be an ongoing problem in today’s world. I think more enlightened men aren’t aware of just how much all this kind of crap goes on as they don’t do this or aren’t friends with people who continue this shit.
It’s actually pretty depressing and amazing how much attitudes are still the same concerning women or how overtly practiced. I suppose the saddest part being the men doing this don’t even think they are doing anything wrong.
And yes, I too am having flashbacks to various actions, some minor and some more major that were laughed off by other men or told it was somehow my fault.
Yup, I’m there, and I posted as much over at WomenKossacks a while ago.
I don’t know if it would help me to read others’ accounts of the same, but it felt good to write it down and get it out.
As I commented in lorraine’s diary – I went back and read all the comments over at Women Kossacks. Totally floored…since I had skipped most of the worst of the pie war. My browser wouldn’t handle that many comments!
Okay count me in for war stories from the 70’s and 80’s. Hell, I’ve got current stories! Discrimination charges against the Army – took 18 months to get minimum promotion from Private to Private First Class!
Can we give it a day or so? I think I’m in overload tonight though!
In the 4 or so hours from my first comment (down thread 1 or 2 spaces) I have truly come full circle!
Still don’t like the wedge of divisiveness – but will not walk away after having been brought up to speed on the issues!
So read this one…and then sort of try to understand the next in the series…time stamps are important here! LOL – on a not so funny topic.
I messed around with my settings because I was noticing the same thing. Make sure your Comment Preferences under the Sort option are marked “Ignore Ratings” and then “Newest/Oldest First” depending on your comfort. That should help with the full-circle phenomenon. 🙂
My preferences were altered yesterday as well. (I didn’t notice it until I finished reading through a very long thread of what seemed to be disconnected comments. I just assumed I was the problem because I was so tired – but then I got a little smarter and saw that the time stamps were not sequential – and I believe they were in order of ratings vs. time.) All fixed now – after a few interesting experiments.
I’m going to have to muddle that one around for a few days.
There is a significant part of me is offended by the divisiveness of the idea.
The divisions directed between men and women from the conservatives during the original ERA movement of the 1970’s were part of the ERA defeat. If we as progressive’s can’t work through this we are in serious trouble. Someone used the phrase “circular firing squad” this weekend on the DailyKos threads…regarding dem politicians.
The premise is the same…have we just let this issue divide probably the most powerful liberal blog on the web?
I’m not saying the issues aren’t valid…just concerned about the wedge created.
Sorry for the long ramble…
I think it was started as a place for us refugees to gather while we figured out where to no next. That led me here, and I’m delighted.
Think of it more as an expat site, where the things we couldn’t discuss before are fair game.
I went over to read the comments…will follow the path for a while…there are some interesting ideas there. Reminds me of the 1970’s – and damn I’ve got some battle scars from that time period!
Now I have to figure out how to login…
no “Other”?
No “didn’t look today” either.
And no “not decided yet” either…
especially when dealing with issues that ignite passion from different angles. Thx for your leadership on the site.
In other news, Sen. Dodd has offered a compromise on the NSA intercepts that are holding up the Bolton nomination to the U.N. Seems smart to me since the R’s will respond with the middle finger, makes them look like secretive, scandalous scum–which they are, of course.
I don’t like the compromise. It sounds like we would have to implicitly trust Negroponte.
I’m incapable of that.
If Dodd is continuing the trend that Sen. Reid started, they are offering deals when they know full-well that the R’s won’t budge. At face value, you’re right, the compromise is shitty, but strategically it’s smart politics.
hey, first-time poster here. This is so much better than Dkos! Thanks to Diane for the recommendation. I posted as eoglesby on Dialy Kos–am now going back to the name I used on the Dean blog.
Hi everybody.
Welcome Hopeful! Glad to see another desert dweller here. I’m in the Old Pueblo, hope you’ll stick around the site.
hello!
Welcome!
Hello back and Welcome from the red part of California. I believe you’ll find your time here well spent and quite fun at times.
And I’m in the high desert in NM — just joined yesterday and immediately was welcomed. That was a good feeling. So, welcome to you!
That is a narrow poll only including the two “standard” sexes. Shouldn’t we have a bigger umbrella? What about transgenders, cross-genders, hermaphrodites, guevedoches, etc? Also, don’t confuse gender with sex – one is a cultural construct, the other biological.
Exactly.
I just don’t want the poll to get distorted by jokers who choose ‘other’ to be clever or something.
Forcing a male or female selection makes for a better and clearer result. If anyone feels they don’t fit in either category they can explain why in the comments.
You’re right, you’ve changed my mind, for the purpose of this poll that makes sense.
I was born with and still have a body that has bits of both sexes. It works pretty well except for reproduction sadly. I don’t have a problem with the poll, just selected female as that is the gender I have adopted for most of society for most of my life. As someone else said the poll reflects society. The reality is a lot more complicated than two genders though isn’t it?
… I was the one confusing gender and sex. You were asking gender, as even those not biologically male or female (or a combination of male and female) generally get classified or self-identify as one or the other.
I was mostly being a smart ass, but an anthopological genetics prof. had taught me in college that anthropologists actually identify 9 biological sexes.
… it was the aliens in Slaughterhouse Five. Maybe your biology teacher read Vonnegut?
guevedoches?
If you dont mind my asking.
Guevedoches (or guevedoces): literally, penis at 12 years — a man with Steroid 5alpha-reductase deficiency, an inherited form of male pseudohermaphroditism. It is a common enough condition in certain populations in the Dominican Republic (documented at 2% of live births during the 1970s) that there are actually two names for the people with the condidtion. The other is machihembras (‘first women, then man’).
Basically, the child is born with what appear to be female external sex organs, but male internal sex organs (testes). When puberty hits, the “girl” goes through masculinization, including the development of a penis, scrotum, and descending of the testes. more
How confusing and scary that must be for everyone involved, especially if it’s not something you’re familiar with.
I’d not heard of it before, obviously, but will read up on it. Thanks for the answer and the link.
Maybe you are right, but as a man I was pleasantly surprised to see that I was in the minority in this poll. It is hard to think of anything I belong to that has a majority of women. I hope that continues here.
I’m kind of bummed.
The last thing I saw on dKos was a front-page post re: Lebanon. I love foreign politics and event. Much more interesting to me than US politics.
Anyway, I had my first post written out (I was ready, I’d been emailing /w Dr. Cole for a while ’bout the situation) I pressed ‘post’ and … nothing.
Finally, something on the front page that I (think I) specialize in and poof it’s gone
Make a Booman diary on Lebanon
I don’t know what to expect, there hasn’t been a census in 70 years.
But there might be something in the works…
Interesting: 50/50 @ 5 pmdt…
I’ve resisted the temptation to weigh in on the pie war issue as I believe that it does not belong here…other peoples problems, and all that. That being said, I will throw my 2 cts. out of a, perhaps masochistic, sense of curiosity to see if I’m in or step.
One of the things that strikes me as having been overlooked in all this is the gender neutral aspect of the internet. I, personally, do not care whether the person I am conversing with is male or female, young or old, black, white, yellow, red, hetero, bi, GLBT, etc., etc.. What I do care about is the quality, thoughtfulness, sincerity and civility of the discourse. Arguments and disagreements will occur within the ranks of every community/family, it’s how those differences are resolved, how the language and the respect, or lack thereof, for the other person is projected, that that ultimately shape/form the personality & ethos of the group.
To date, Bootrib has shown an openness and willingness to that kind of civil discourse. I, for one, hope that it continues to do so as it attracts an ever larger audience.
Thank you Booman and everyone who’s here.
Sheesh…I’m a slow typist.
While I don’t mind knowing about people who diary and comment here I am mostly concerned in what their ideas and thoughts are on any given subject. I’ve said before I consider people here to be citizens of the mind.
My thoughts, too.
When I write fiction, I am, in the cliche, sitting around in my jammies talking to imaginary friends. When blogging, my imaginary friends are real. It’s nice to know that the people I talk to here exist somewhere in 3-D, but what’s most important is the communication.
I’ve been so amused by the pictures of the various meetups posted recently at dKos, because not one of the people pictured has looked in life the way I imagined her/him from postings. 😉
Another thing that was overlooked — my comments were either ignored or trolled — was the fact that some countries would still deny access to the blog because of an ad like that. I thought the pie ad was blithely Ameri-centric. There are countries in the world where women are invisible, and censors will block a site rather than countenance the presence of images like that.
If we want to have a real conversation with the rest of the world then we just can’t put crap like that on the walls of the conference room and not expect certain other governments to be outraged. It was a Bushist response by a number of kossacks, I thought, to suggest that their freedom to view breasts was more important than the common good.
I was completely oblivious to piegate until I linked over through Booman’s diary yesterday. And the whole situation made me recall a fairly recent issue on this site, and the very different way in which it was handled.
One of BT’s clients used the spread-eagle Gannon graphic for their ad. Several of us expressed our distaste, and Martin explained his need for revenue. No problem – fully understood. I’d much prefer he receive the revenue than lose the site.
Then – several members of the community sent very respectful requests to the advertiser – explaining our concerns with the picture. Within a day, the advertiser not only changed the graphic, he posted a very thoughtful diary – apologizing to anyone who may have taken offense. I certainly didn’t expect that response – heck I didn’t even expect the picture to be changed.
But it drove home the collaborative nature of this site – and how issues of contention can be resolved with mutual respect. The thoughtful response of the advertiser resulted in my admiration and continued use of the advertiser’s site. And the non-defensive response from the BT site proprietor had the same effect.
(Yes – I realize the pie ad involved a much bigger advertiser who likely wasn’t in a position to alter the graphics, but I’m just saying. . .)
What a very impressive and inspirational story. It can be different and you guys proved it there. Courtesy, respect. . .damn! that stuff still works!
Yeah – I found the whole situation pleasantly stunning. And while I’m certainly no prude by any measure – that picture of Gannon disturbed me in ways I can’t even explain. Disturbed me so much I couldn’t focus on my writing. Each time I went to post, there he was – mocking me – spread out on the bed. With that “come-hither, I want you” expression on his face. Ewww!
In the converse, I think it’s a riot that some of the female-oriented blogs are running the same pie ad, yet without ramifications from the readers. A clear sign that the issue at hand is far, far beyond the ad itself.
Yeah, you’re so right. The fact that women-run blogs are running the ad says more clearly than almost anything else could that it was never just about the ad. I have to think that if the original diary raising questions about the placement of the ad had run here, instead of on Kos, there would have been a lengthy, respectful discussion, but no revolution. The existence of this place shows evolution, imo.
I came late to the dKos threads and Kos’ comments.
Echidne of the Snakes has some very thoughtful writing on Kos’ comments. See http://echidneofthesnakes.blogspot.com/ Feminism on DailyKos
I was really taken aback by assumption by some Kos posters that feminists are anti-sex prudes, and the refusal to see how the ad could be offensive.
Like watching a train wreck taking place, I read the main column thread with the repsonses, critical and supportive, to Kos’ angry writing.
I felt as if I had been at a four-hour KPFK Local Station Board meeting, or a day-long Pacific National Board meeting. That is not a good thing.
Yes, yes, that was exactly it. And for many I don’t think it was the Ad as much as kos response…like when you are little and following a pair of legs you think are your mothers and then the person turns around and it is a complete stranger. The whole thing was very disturbing.
Wow this place has spell check…the dyslexic in me is totally won over!
Exactly my response on the inernecine diary…the ad is stupid but Kos’s response was condescending, offensive and clueless.
It’s funny how good things are coming from it though. We are all wandering over here and also a Gender Issue site is being born here:
http://womenkossacks.blogspot.com/
Yesterday I was sad, but today I feel happier than I have in a long time. Ultimately, leaving the boys locker room has been a good thing.
Plus Booman has spellcheck.
“leaving the boys locker room”
Thanks. You’ve just pinpointed something that helps explain a frequent feeling of dis-ease over there.
I think there are a lot of comments made by people who don’t realize how offensive they sound. Some man posted yesterday that, Yes, the ad might have been offensive, and Yes, he could truly understand how women would be offended, but Day-amm, those babes were HOT!
Clueless.
What a nice place you have here. I’m delighted to see names of posters I know and respect from dKos. I’ve come via the new womankossacks. (I invite any of you who haven’t visited there yet to go and read and satisfy your curiosity. It’s a nice place, too.)
Just wanted to quickly say:
WELCOME!
(Now I’m off to a star party to look at the stars.)
The major media ignored this story and maybe they knew what interests the general public – it is not the situation in Iraq.
My Iraq diary is about the new security of 40,000 Iraqi forces hitting Baghdad and how they targeted the Sunnis in their house to house raids and arrests.
It’s important what happens in Iraq right now because it will determine how soon the occupation will end. Some think it will never really end but that the US forces will retreat to the 14 military bases and give Iraqis a chance at their own sovereignty.
I’m just hoping that the slaughter will end very very soon.
Pacem in terra.
I wrote this story this morning but only got 4 comments.
I’ll go read your diary now, Sybil.
Where are all the men today. Susan I still care about Iraq, but there seems to be a flurry of activity outside of political issues today. My other diary has been largely ignored.
Guess we have to go with the flow.
Time to post my heartbreaker
Dear little Iraqi girl weeps
after her home is destroyed
by a car bomb in Baghdad.
Yes – I’m not only interested in Iraq, I’m interested in the thoughtful, intelligent way in which you present your writings.
In my defense, last night I just wrapped up a week from hell, with critical work deadlines and emotional family issues. I shamefully admit that during – and shortly after – a week such as that I tend to seek escape through diversions more along the lines of Jerry Springer, rather than Frontline.
As referenced in other posts, the circumstances surrounding the recent emotion-laden gender issues flooded my head with awful experiences from the past – and served to remind me why I was attracted to this site from the get-go. (The gender ratios are far less important to me than the respectful tone, maturity and high caliber of the contributors. And I couldn’t wish for a better site proprietor.) In light of all this, I’ve been quite interested to read what others have to say about the matter – and how everything unfolds from a variety of angles.
For now, please forgive me in my pursuit of lighter subjects. As I posted last week – it saddens me when the front-page writers don’t receive the credit they deserve, and I’d like to do whatever I can to alter that trend. But when I’m in the throes of pressure and anxiety I seek comfort in certain diaries or open threads involving topics of a less distressing nature.
As soon as I regroup, I’ll demonstrate my commitment to and interest in issues such as Iraq – in a more participatory manner. In the meantime, please know that your writing and oh so many other contributions are greatly valued.
Good day!
I’m sorry, but please, if you can, be patient with your readers for a day or two.
Of course I still care about Iraq, of course I still want to be informed and to work for peace.
But I can’t do anything worthwhile on such issues when the roots of my online community have been suddenly and severely shaken.
I don’t know if I speak for anyone else, but I think I need a couple days to vent, reach out, regroup, and refocus.
And I also must point out that my feminism is not a distraction from the war or the economy or anything else. On the contrary, it’s a key, enabling ingredient for my concern with all political issues.
I really don’t like drama – but the drama of late has affected me none-the-less. The last couple of days have been disorienting at best and for some of us stressful and maddening. I’m sorry if the events of today and the sudden arrival of newbies have been a distraction to the rest of the community. I’m hoping to adjust quickly, deal with the mess we’ve just left as calmly as is possible – and soon have more time and attention to devote to worthy stories (especially susanhu’s – always excellent).
because I was trying to be focused (for a change).
I feel that there is no argument on the issue of women’s
equality. We are equal and often superior.
It seems the debate at DKos reached a new low. There
always was an element of intolerance but this debate
must have brought it to the surface. I’m so sorry that
women were hurt by this. It’s shocking in this day and
age.
peace
I am laughing at your marvelous sig line! And songbh speaks for me, as well.
Yes it’s true, he was foolish to face this pack of women, with guest hostess Rosie O’donnel who went berserko over his views. She was firey and said “the Emperor has no clothes” and Sean said Bush gave freedome to a ‘gazillion'(I am sure he said a gazillion, lol) people around the world and made it safer. what a dumbo he is.