I find myself between a rock and a hard place.
My daughter is a bright and talented kid. She is not exceptionally intelligent, but she is more
advanced than her classmates. And as a mother, I want the best for her. More than anything else,
I want her to be able to pursue any career she wants. I don’t care so much about how much she
will earn, but that she finds a path that gives her satisfaction and happiness. I will do anything to
help her accomplish this. Alas, this is where the dilemma comes in.
TeacherToni recently wrote about her frustration with Charter Schools. I completely understand
her. The charter schools are largely ununionized and lack supervision. They are often misused
and are magnets for corruption. Of the some 25 charter schools in my hometown, Oakland, CA,
almost all suck.
I did find one, however, that is doing really well. It is called the Oakland School for the Arts. It
ranks really high on the various stats and offers a place for all those weird, artistic, and smart kids
who just don’t fit into the dog eat dog world of public high school. My kid seems to be a good fit
for this school. I live in a poorer district so the public schools here suffer and while they are
doing the best they can, they are struggling. All the smart rich kids go to private school.
This got me to thinking about the place of charter schools versus regular public schools. I really
think charter schools can be a wonderful and unique way to look at education. Charter schools
usually offer something our public schools cannot…be it arts, Islamic studies, Montessori,
bi-lingual, or whatever. They offer a choice to the status quo and often work to address
particular learning styles or cultural barriers. For this, I applaud them.
On the other hand, charter schools do not have the same scrutiny that public schools go through.
So many give up on good education to focus on their particular mission. They do not have to
follow the same union rules as public schools and most do not even hire union workers. This is
very bad. What’s more is for every student that leaves the public school system for a charter
school, the district loses thousands of dollars. If you don’t know, a school is given a specific
amount for each student per day. So districts with chronic absenteeism get shafted on funds.
So, as a good Liberal, I find myself in a quandary. I have to do what is best for my kid and I want
to support public schools. So what do I do? Do I send my kid to a substandard school because it
is politically the correct thing to do? Or, do I swallow my ideals and send her to a charter school
because I know she would be better off in an environment full of like-minded kids who do not fit
into societal norms? I chose the latter, but not without some feelings of guilt.
So, what do you think about public schools and charter schools? Can charter schools change the
way public schools operate? Should we push for more accountability and unions in charter
schools, or should we push the public schools to offer more choices?
I have to admit that I like the idea of charter schools. I think parents want to be able to choose a
school that fits their ideals. But on the other hand, I want all kids to get a solid education.
I love the idea of public school and I want the US to
devote more energy and money to our schools. On the third hand, I don’t trust our government
to determine what constitutes a good school. Leave No Child Behind is a prime example of
governmental rhetoric.
I’m not a blogger and I don’t play one on TV. I’ve never done a diary before, but I really want to
know what y’all think about public vs. charter schools (and you can certainly throw in private
schools into the discussion).
Argh….Theresa in PA made some valuable comments and suggestions and I tried to implement the suggestions and deleted the darn diary by accident. I tried to fix it in this diary and just haven’t figured out how to split this diary. But as my daughter has taught me, I will keep trying. :>)
Teresa, I think I remember you bringing up salary differences and saying thay public school teachers are paid better and have more experience than those at charter schools.
I believe this to be true. I remember when I was at private school, I heard that many of my teachers were just gettng experience to get a public school placement.
On the other hand, a majority were there because they really believed in the school and found that they loved the environment. I don’t think that charter school or private school teachers have to follow the same credential requirements of public school teachers and this is also something to consider. On the other hand, I have seen several awesome teachers completely burned out by administrative requirements that destroyed their unique creativity in public school.
Public school teacher do have to meet rigorous standards which charter and private school teachers often do not. That doesn’t mean you can’t find good teachers in charter schools.
Thank you.
I had some great teachers in private school and I had some great teachers in public school. I also had some horrible teachers in both venues. I really respect teachers. By enrolling my kid in a charter school, I am hurting the teacher’s union, which I hate to do. But, on the other hand, I am enrolling my daughter in a school that allows the teachers more freedom and creativity than they would have in a regular school. But, I have no guarantee that she will learn anything.
This is an important topic. I hope people check in and comment. As someone left of center, I believe that Charter schools are taking money from public education and often not turning in good results. I also believe the are a way of attacking the teacher’s unions which republicans hate. In fact I believe some would love nothing more than to starve and kill public education altogether.
In my opinion it is better to improve the public schools and keep the resorces where they are.
Going back to bed…. see you all later in the morning.
You are absolutely correct. As I stated in my rant, by far the majority of charter schools in my area suck. They are so devoted to their particular “issue” that they ignore the overall education of their children and it shows in test scores and ratings.
On the other hand, can the public schools learn something from the popularity of charter schools? For example, most parents don’t give a damn about test scores, they want their kids to have access to art, music, science, sports, and math and english. But our public schools are being pushed to only do math and english and learn to the test.
I am far left too, and I truly want to support public education. But, on the other hand, I have always harbored a kind of disdain for public education. This is not an easy admission to make, but I’ve always felt that the sole reason for public education is to make a compliant work force. Yet, without an educated public, we have no hope. If I really want to put on my tin-foil hat, I would say that NCLB was a deliberate move to make kids spend so much time on math and english that they have no time to think of anything else.
I have no answers. I am just being honest about my own feelings and I am completely open to other views.
In our state, Charter school get less money than regular public schools, This is discussed pretty openly as a way to cut taxes: if more kids are put into charters, then we can cut educational spending.
And said more privately and quietly: if the charters fail, as many have, our next step will be vouchers!
Hi, Kamakhya, welcome to Booman Tribune.
I’m a public school supporter, 4th generation public school teacher (though I teach college students now). As a general rule, I do not like Charter Schools. However, I also don’t believe in asking parents to sacrifice their children when there truly is not an alternative that fits their child well.
There are different kinds of Charters. You have found the best kind:
Other Charter schools may be chartered (put under the oversight of) Junior Colleges, regular public colleges and universities, regional education centers, Indian Tribes, and sometimes state departments of education.
People who charter, can and do have their own standards of who they will let run the school. It is very very important to know who has oversight. Best I think is having a school district itself issue the Charter, because they will have to conform to public accountability laws. Other Chartering groups manage with greater or lesser strictness.
If I were considering a Charter, I would want to know how long the Chartering Group had done this. Best would be colleges and universities who have a strong college of education, who actually have turned down some groups proposing a new school, and who actively exert some oversight. Worst would be entities that don’t prepare teachers, that are far distant from the proposed school, and who are doing it mostly because they get money for Chartering.
Who actually runs the school. A school district will run its own Charters, usually (but see Philadelphia for an alternative). The school or schools themselves may be run by a profit making company like Edison, or a non-profit organization or group. The big for-profit places have a lot of experience, but they are obligated first to their share holders, not to their students. They often look slick, have the money to rent a nice building, etc. But they also pay teachers less, they have to, to turn a profit.
Best of these are likely local groups of teachers who have worked together to set up their own Charter School. they usually seek out a good Chartering Group, they have worked together on getting the Charter, and most are dedicated and more experienced than the average Charter School teacher. The worst are Charter Schools put together quickly, that use a canned curriculum provided by a religious organization, run by a church or religious organization to follow certain religious principles – which is NOT the same as teaching religion. If they get public money, they can’t teach religion.
Other key points are the size of classes, how discipline is handled, what special education services are offered, and how the school is managed.
There’s a Charter not far from my house, that has kids in classes of 40! That is way too many. Kids are often tossed out as soon as they count for the year (most states have an official time to count kids to determine their state monies). And children who cause trouble or who have learning problems may not be served at all, which is, of course, a violation of federal law. Nonetheless, such kids regularly get kicked out, and back into regular public schools.
Some Charter schools have a school board. Some of these are chosen openly, others chose members very selectively though with the facade of being open. As an example, one Charter – actually a pretty good one, announces its annual nomination for Board seats in the tiniest newspaper ads posted for as short a time as possible. They want Board members that they largely choose.
The school you have found is most likely overseen by the regular school board of the Oakland Public Schools. I’m not endorsing that Board’s actions, but it is publicly elected, in presumably free and open elections.
Alternatives. you might consider are pressuring your public system to meet your child’s needs. Another possibility is to home school or get outside classwork in some subjects. You could home school for everything, which is very very hard to do with adequate coverage of all subjects. But I have seen some consortiums of home schoolers do a pretty fair job. I still don’t like that, however. You might move to a district that had better schools. This, of course, isn’t a realistic possibility for most people. And even affluent areas in California can have terrible schools due to the stripping away of public funding.
This is too long, my apologies. Overall: if you must send your child to a Charter, best to pick one set up by your public school district. Worst would be a profit-making company with a bad track record, running a school for a religious or other type of group intent on getting money for other purposes, providing head money to churches for enrolling their kids, overseen by a school or Indian tribe with no experience in training teachers or administrator, paying teachers little. They would likely have many unqualified teachers working on emergency permits, with large staff turnover.
If the charter is run by the school district, I am okay with that, as it is overseen by a democratically elected school board. Especially if the teachers are protected by the union.
If it is not, here are the problems that have been seen: it can up and close its doors one day and the students’ records are lost. This has happened a few times in California. If you suddenly become interested in fining out how money is being spent, they are not obliged to honor FOIA requests.
You might check to see if your school district has an agreement to help with special needs kids. The special needs title does not just refer to special education. It can be for talent and gifted etc.
I like the idea of putting pressure on the district. Those people on the board are accountable to you through elections. Team up with a few like-minded parents, find a few teachers and convince the school to offer more programs that meet the the needs of more students.
I completely appreciate your dilemma. My school district needs many improvements, but when people give up on the idea of improving the public and democratic school system, I really feel that it will be a diservice to future students and parents.
Thanks so much to everyone who chimed in. There is some really great information here about making school choices and helped me understand the issues better.
Oakland School for the Arts (www.oakarts.org) is a California Public Charter School, charted by the Oakland Unified School District. I think it’s major problem is that it is very new, opening only in 2002 and this year will be its first for the middle school (6-8th grades). It is also located in a parking lot, I kid you not. It is a maze of temporary classrooms and a huge performance tent. They are currently renovating a beautiful old theater to house the school in a couple of years. Yet, in the past three years, it has consistently scored well on test scores and has shown great promise both academically and for its core arts program.
I am concerned about its growing pains and worry that it will close. I sent my kid to private montessori schools through the third grade. However, the first one closed when she was in second grade and the second school closed when she was in the third grade. I then found a great public school for 4th and 5th. So, I am certainly concerned about school closures. It was really hard for my kid to constantly switch schools. However, it seems from what I read here that a school charted by the school district has more accountability.
If you think you must go Charter, think also about this:
Do the teachers belong to a union? Do they have a collective bargain with their school’s management? Failing that, do teachers have a strong representation in the management of the school? If not, teachers can dismissed with few rights.
Does the school really have adequate funding? An entire set of schools closed abruptly in California not so long ago, because the management company failed. There was a terrible scramble to find places for them in regular or other charter or private schools.
wow…thanks for all that information and things to consider! It’s too much to take in at 3:00 a.m., but I know once I re-read it and think about it, I will have some good questions to ask of the administrators.
The school I am looking at for my daughter does have a good board of directors. It was started by the mayor of Oakland to address the needs of some students. He also started a military school, which has had some serious problems. Yet, the arts school is doing quite well.
Thanks so much for the food for thought. I want to support our school system, but our school system is completely fucked and bankrupt. I thought about moving, but rents in good school districts are very high and the apts very small. I am trying to find a way to give my kid a good education and stay in a cool and vibrant city.
Public schools worked out well for my kids. By far the most important thing to do is save money for college.
I can’t understand why you would even consider factors other than the well being of your child in making a school choice decision. The teachers’ union shouldn’t even be considered given that I’ve met numerous public school teachers who have no qualms about throwing “political correctness” out the window and sending their kids to private schools. I suggest you ask some of the public school teachers who live in Oakland where their kids go to school.
Charter schools and private schools are two different matters. Private schools which are not taking public funds are not a problem.
the first is not directly relevant, but is a series of articles about the experience of school choice, largely through vouchers in MIlwaukee, over 15 years. You can read about it in the Journal-Sentinel here
The second, which is tangentially related, is a diary I did on a new charter school in Philadelphia that is opening up this fall. Here is the link for it here at boomantribune.
Charter schools are neither good nor bad because they are charter schools. We have had some real disasters in Washington DC. We also saw the wealthiest (in terms of families of students) junior high school in the District take itself out of the regular administration and go Charter. It was a good school before it was a charter, and this was a way to protect itself. I know that the hs at which I teach in Prince George’s County Maryland has in the past explored doing something similar.
Some charter schools are excellent. Some are formed with a specific focus or mission which may provide an opportunity to find an ideal fit for a student. Others are run by for-profit organizations such as Edison, and one needs to be wary of the implications of that profit motivation.
Again — there are few sweeping statements that can be made about charter schools — but that is also true for regular public schools.
with one child in a public magnet elementary school and another in a charter middle school.
Without jumping into the more abstract discussion of whether or not charter schools are a good thing (like TeacherKen, I think there are good and bad apples in the bunch) I will say that we found a charter school with a whole big fat mess of good stuff going on.
It has a portfolio based evaluation system, standardized test scores that are tops in the state (some years it’s been THE top-scoring school), a character education/service-based learning component, and a global-connectedness theme. It also has a 1:15 teacher:student ratio, and we consider the day our kidlet’s name came up to be a day as important as if we had, indeed, won an actual $$$’s lottery.
In their idealistic form, charters offer a lab environment for trying out new educational formats away from state restrictions. Like all experiments, some work and you learn something new, other fail–and hopefully, you learn something there, also.
In our state (North Carolina) teachers are not in unions, so we’re not crossing any liberal boundaries by going out of the system, and we still consider our child to be in a public school– state tax dollars still pay the teacher salaries, school operating costs, etc.
As far as values go, it was more important to us that our kid gets a middle school education in a small, supportive environment that stresses service and that teaches how we are all connected on this planet. In the long run, for us, I think the education he receives at this program will contribute towards helping him grow into the kind of young man we’ll admire—and that was the most important factor for us!
Please feel free to e-mail me off line if you’d like to chat more!
Your kids come first. Your politics second. I would never sacrifice my child for political correctitude. Charter schools vary. So do public schools. I went through public school in a small, midwestern, industrial town. It was horrible. I was in no way prepared for life by that experience, but fortunately had an intelligent family to, in some ways, fill the gap. If I had grown up in my husband’s affluent, east coast suburb, I expect I’d have had a very different experience. But, this is not about me. This is about your daughter, and she is your priority, above and beyond any civic concerns. If you have done your research and found that a charter school is a better fit for her, that’s all that matters. It’s not your fault that public education is underfunded. You didn’t make that decision. Neither did I. If it were up to me, education would look very different across the board, but when it comes time to put my daughter in school, I will make that decision based on what is best for her, from all the options presented, and if all the schools around us suck, I’ll home school. I don’t want her ever to suffer the kind of mind-numbing boredom of the evil institution of social manipulation I endured from K-12.
…have been a mess for over a generation. When I lived in Oakland (over 10 years ago), the only public high school that had a decent reputation was Skyline and that is in the most affluent part of town. I met a couple of people in other areas who tried sending their kids to neighborhood public schools to “support the system” as you appear to be willing to do, however, in short time they withdrew their kids for other alternatives. Those who kept their kids in public schools for lack of knowledge or other options were not satisfied. The only silver lining was that for kids who were exceptional athletes, some schools had good sports programs. At one point in the early 90’s the Oakland public schools were in such despair that the state had to take oversight of the district from city’s school board. Oakland was also the school district that tried to promote ‘Ebonics’ as a teaching method. Enough said. It doesn’t sound like it’s gotten much better. I would strongly advise you to put any political correctness aside because when your daughter is in school with gang bangers, when she can’t get AP classes and is ineligible for entry into UC campuses, when she can’t use the bathroom because of safety, when there isn’t enough lab equipment for even half the kids, etc., etc., where will all the political correct people be when you need their help ? They won’t be around to help you. Put your political correctness aside when choosing schools, like the majority of “p.c.” parents.
The Oakland School District is still having a slew of problems and was taken over by the State again last year, after having to declare bankruptcy. There is a lot of restructuring going on, with many schools closing and many lost jobs. In fact, with the number of schools closing, I worry about overcrowding at the remaining schools. Bill Gates has recently donated millions to open “small schools” and I will be interested to hear about those.
Ultimately, I had already decided I would opt out of the public schools, if I could find something better. I would have gladly sent her to private school had I been able to get financial aid. I live a few blocks from Oakland High School and it will be a cold day in hell before I send her to that school. I had planned to send her to the charter school anyway, only now I get to do it in 6th grade instead of having to wait until 9th grade.
So, I agree with you. I will not let my politics dictate what is best for my kid. But, I was curious to hear other peoples ideas and attitudes were concerning the larger issues.
Thank you for sharing this. It gave me much to think about.
“So, as a good Liberal, I find myself in a quandary. I have to do what is best for my kid and I want to support public schools.”
IMO this is much deeper than acting or choosing to be “politically correct.”
You have two beliefs in conflict. You examine them, weigh them, and you make a choice. Then you can restate your beliefs: I believe doing what is best for my child is more important than supporting public schools by having her attend one.
Can you support public schools in other ways? Of course. Will your support have the intensity it would if your child was attending? Possibly, though most likely not.
Can you be criticized for your choice? Of course, though my guess would be, only by those who do not have children.
My children have forced me to be much more engaged and active within the mainstream culture than I have wanted to be. To my dismay they have given me many opportunities to examine my beliefs and to make choices. An example: my kid played sports. The team meets at McDonald’s. We, my family, don’t consume McDonald’s stuff. All the team members are getting something. My kid makes his request for something too. What’s my choice?
You have with your personal dilemma brought to light the difficulty of those of us who consider ourselves “liberal” or “progressive.” And that is, how do we choose to put our “ideals” into practice? Do our actions align with our words? Do our words really reflect our beliefs?
We are continually having to make choices. Examining our actions in light of our beliefs is often not very comfortable. But honesty and integrity are important to being authentic. Otherwise we end up being hypocrites.