11:28am PT: Lawrence O’Donnell will be on with Al Franken & Katherine on Air America after the break. (O’Donnell is saying it’ll be difficult to get a conviction in this case. READ MY NOTES in the comments section.} Floyd Abrams was just on. And, the WH site will put up a video of the press conference shortly, and a transcript later.
Update [2005-7-11 14:37:53 by susanhu]: From Think Progress blog:
Finally, the White House press corps gets its act together.
Scott McClellan’s press briefing is beginning now (you can watch it live here) — but a reporter inside today’s untelevised press gaggle just shot us an email. Apparently Scottie was asked 5 different times about the Rove revelations, and 5 different times he said he “would not comment on an ongoing investigation.”
UPDATE: This press briefing is stunning. McClellan is refusing to say anything at all, not one word, about the Plame case. The reporters are outraged – NBC’s David Gregory just told McClellan that his stonewalling was “ridiculous.”
UPDATE II: McClellan’s line is that he will not comment on the investigation until the “appropriate time, which is when the investigation has concluded.” Actually, that’s not true — at all. The investigation began on September 28, 2003.
__________________________________________
Below the first screen and the big centered ad, in the fourth paragraph, NBC’s First Read notes, “Beyond the Hill [I guess THAT’S where we little people are], the buzz is about Karl Rove’s role in the leak of CIA operative Valerie Plame’s name, as reported by Newsweek yesterday.”
… More below:
ABC’s The Note ignores the Newsweek story, only mentioning Karl Rove’s name here: “Sen. Lindsey Graham told Karl Rove his recommendation for the U.S. Supreme Court nominee would be William W. Wilkins, a chief judge of the 4th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Richmond Va.”
Slate‘s daily round-up of top newspaper stories doesn’t mention the Rove/Newsweek story.
The NYT and LAT get by with a July 10 Reuters story. In today’s related NYT story — “For Time Inc. Reporter, a Frenzied Decision to Testify” — Newsweek is mentioned in the 20th paragraph.
The Page A01 WaPo story is framed by the paper’s interview of Karl Rove’s attorney: “Rove Told Reporter of Plame’s Role But Didn’t Name Her, Attorney Says.”
In another blog reaction — with a wink — Blah3 writes:
Sounds pretty serious, huh?
They have yet to comment on what might happen if Rove’s found guilty of treason, which I believe might carry a death penalty.
Of course, the story’s from 1998 and the boys were talking about Clinton and his penis, but hey, what’s good for the goose is good for the gander. The law’s the law, right, and it needs to be equally applied to all.
Today show and MSNBC has about two minutes to devote to this this morning. Of course the talking points are “Rove didn’t know Wilson’s wife’s name” per his lawyer. What time is the gaggle this morning? Can anyone watch and transcribe if any of the hacks even think of asking any questions of Scottie Boy concerning Rove?
The news portal I use, MyWay, has the Reuters story, headlined Bush aide Rove was Time reporter’s source-Newsweek, at the top of its Political News section. All is not yet lost, but a major effort to ask the rest of the media asking why in hell they’re sitting on this story is definitely in order. Ask specific questions that you want answered.
Like this administration, most of the MSN only does the right thing when public pressure cuts off all the other options.
I hope so.
The big drama today will be at the WH press briefing, as BooMan has made very clear.
Can’t wait.
ETA?
They’re all in bed with Rove,
eh?
I mean Brooks, Guckert, Drudge, Kurtz, Rush, Sean, The Bow-Tie-Boy, the WSJ Editorial Board, the NYT, WaPo, ABC, CBS, MSNBC.. they’re still or at least once were sleeping in his bed…
None of ’em ever slept with Bill,
Which may have been the real problem.
All politics,
is local.
When the question “why have all these people been drawn together into this coterie?” is answered and the question, “What’s the local politics here?” we will probably discover the identity of the Colorado Four’s Faux Secret Service Agent and the identity of his romantic interest at the White House. Along with how Dan Bartlett got Jimmy Guckert into the White House Briefing Room…
eh?
if I woke up one morning to find Rove in bed next to me…I’d have my body sandblasted and then dipped in bleach…just to be safe…
Don’t forget to have Rove autoclaved.
Surely someone that far removed from reality would already be sterile? (Not a reproductive health reference.)
an mportant component of this puzzle, I did feel it to be anti-climactic.
I’m still looking for specific reference to someone having used the name “Plame” in their communication with any of these journalists. So far, the odious Robert Novak is the only one we know in whose documentation that name appears.
As much as I’d like to see the creature Rove “frog-marched” to the hoosegow, I’ve seen no solid evidence that he disclosed the name of Wilson’s wife to anyone.
If Novak told Fitzgerald that (Rove) gave him Plame’s name, and if Fitzgerald is seeking corroborative evidence from Cooper and Miller that they also received thename from Rove, then that makes sense. So far, however, nothing in the Newsweek articles makes any such claims about Rove, and even Walter Pincus’s article clearly revealing that the White House knew of Wilson’s wife’s employment at the CIA; even his article was not Rove-specific.
I don’t think the MSM will really attend to this story until it’s really clear that the guilty parties will be held accountable. MSM is intimidated by and afraid of retaliation by the Bushwackers, and considering the ruthless, almost pathological zeal with which this regime attacks those who fail to bow down to it’s every decree, the MSM anxiety is justified. This doesn’t excuse their negligent andcowardly behavior, but it does at least partially explain it.
Like saying “Wilson’s wife” is going to confuse the folks who aren’t supposed to know? The law against disclosure is designed to protect the agent. This leak, which pretty clearly came from the White House, destroyed that protection. End of story.
That said, I agree with what I take to be your broader point: that it’s still early in the game and everything depends of what the prosecution does next. Way to soon to be handwringing about the level of coverage or apparent impact. The game now is to try and keep this in the spotlight, but not prematurely wear it out by goint over the top too soon.
name “Plame” is this. Valerie Plame is the name Mrs. Wilson used at the CIA and in her undercover work.
If one were to presume, ( a risky thing to do), that the name she used within the CIA was intended to be part of her method of concealing the fact that she was in actuality the wife of a career foreign service diplomat, (in order to bolster her cover as a corporate executive in her undercover role), then it would also be likely, (again, another risky presumption), that even outside the CIA environment she would take pains to conceal not ony the essential nature of her work for the CIA but also the fact that she operated under a different name there.
I think these are reasonable assumptions, and that the term “Wilson’s wife” doesn’t necessarily denote either knowledge of the specific “Valerie Plame” identity as being that of Joe Wilson’s wife or that of a covert operative in and of itself.
IMO, if Cooper’s notes, or his upcoming testimony, reveal that in fact Rove, (or whoever else) did in fact furnish him with the name Plame, then we have a different story, but as of right now, I have to stand with my original analysis that referring to “Wilson’s wife” in the way these notes suggest does not signify all that much.
I’m sorry but im with Dave on this. The reason why the story has no mojo is simply because people have decided not to make it a story. They could easily turn it into a story by payign enough attention to it. It is serious too. Wilson’s wife IS Plame. That’s self evident.
Your argument is a bit like saying you can’t see me if I cover my own eyes. If i can’t see you you can’t see me, right? Or at least that’s how I see it.
Basically, all they have to do is limbo around the name of Plame and they get off scott-free? It’s simple math . Get Wilson’s wife. Wilson’s wife = Valerie Plame.. law of reflexivity… Valerie Plame = Wilson’s Wife. Just how is that vague, again? .. and if you go read TPM or David Corns weblogs you see that Novak DID know “Wilson’s Wife” was a covert op by analyzing his articles.
It’s as simple as this – when they want to report the news be sure they will report the news. In the meantime we’re going to get a lot of linguistic parsing
point I’m trying to make. I’m not doing a “you can’t see me if I cover my eyes” number.
I’m saying that as far as we know, (not as far as we believe but as far as we know), it’s possible someone knew Wilson’s wife worked for the CIA but didn’t know she was a NOC (covert) agent using the “Plame” identity. If Wilson’s wife only used the name Plame in her undercover work, then it’s clear that the person who conveyed that name to Novak would almost certainly know she was covert. This is why I’m interested in Novak’s sources because thus far, it is there, and only there, that we see the name has been revealed.
I could know that your spouse worked for the CIA but I might not know the name under which he/she was employed. I could know you spouse worked for the CIA under a different name. I could know that your spouse worked for an energy company that was a front for the CIA and that said spouse was there in a covert capacity. But of these 3 scenarios, it would only be if I had the knowledge represented in the last of the 3 that would make me guilty of a crime if I revealed your spouse name.
As for your assertion that Novak did know Wilson’s wife’s covert status, there is no evidence of that, either in David Corn’s or TPM blogs or anywhere else. I happen to believe he did know and just didn’t give a shit, but believing is not the same as having evidence that proves such knowledge.
I am not in any way mounting a defense of either the odious Novak, the criminal manipulator Rove, or any of the other shitbirds in the Bush regime’s criminal empire. All of the layers in the Bush regime should be serving life sentences in prison or worse. The primary thrust of what I’m saying is that there’s a difference between believing things and knowing things as fact.
If it were that simple, do you really think a federal prosecutor would have spent over a year of investigation, sent out subpoenas, jailed a recalcitrant “journalist” and all the rest? If your theory were correct he could have closed the case before it even started.
that his investigation was pretty much finished 3-4 months ago except for these 2 reporters Cooper’s and Miller’s testimony.
Now I don’t know about you, but to me this suggests he’s only pursuing possible perjury charges now and that the issue of the greater crime having been committed is already dismissed in his mind. Time will tell, however, but here’s what I think will be the result of this whole thing.
No one will be charged with the crime associated with “outing” a covert CIA operative. If we the public do learn the identity of who provided the name “Plame” to Novak, it will be someone in the NSA most of us have never heard of and that person will claim ignorance of Plame’s covert status. No one will spend time in jail over this except Miller.
Hopefully I’m wrong about all of this, but that’s my prediction.
I think i see where your coming from.. but if i remember correctly he was simply stating that they couldnt go forward until they had that testimoney from Cooper and Wilson, not that there wasn’t any case.
From my understanding there had to be a “smoking gun” linking Rove up with putting the finger on V Plame and with Cooper’s testimoney they now have that gun.
To use an argument by authority.. i do trust the instincts of Josh Marshal as being a very competant judge of what’s news. If he is saying there’s smoke here the chances chances are very good that there’s fire. Plus, the reporters peppering McClellan with questions are all acting like there’s some form of “there” there. Personally, I think this cripples Rove no matter how it turns out at this point. It just remains to be seen now just how crippled he will be.
I realize that I’d forgotten about Novak’s assertion that Wilson’s wife’s name is included in the listing for Joe Wilson hmself in “Who’s Who in America”. (I don’t subscribe so I can’t confirm the listing for myself, especially as to whether it includes her maiden name “Plame”).
Also downthread, someone points out that if (presumably) Rove knew Wilson’s wife worked at the CIA then he must have know her identity there as Valerie Plame.
This makes perfect sense and would cause me to review my analysis of the significance of these things. One point I’m not clear on, and perhaps you or someone else here knows, is this. Was the Valerie Plame identity used both at the CIA itself and as her undercover identity,or was it used in either one instance or the other?
So, my analysis above may have a serious flaw in it; that flaw being that if Plame was in fact the name Wilson’s wife used at the CIA itself in addition to using it as her covert name in the field, then my analysis is kaput. (Though, if she did use the same name in both instances, one must wonder why the CIA didn’t provide her with adifferent identity for her field work, one that would afford her a more solid cover). On the other hand, if she was Valerie Wilson at the CIA, and “Plame” in the field, then my analysis stands with only slight modification.
The last thing I want to do here is to defend a position that is wrong. I’m more interested in truth and accuracy than whether I’m right or not, and it’s quite frustrating that we have so little info and so many conflicting scenarios in the realm ofspeculation.
I’m glad you made the point so I don’t have to. If the leaker knew “Wilson’s wife” was a spook, s/he obviously knew who that spook was. I really don’t understand why you think the people she was concealing her identity from would have the slightest problem, or lack of interest, in finding her maiden name. Your argument seems to me kind of like, “Well, they only called her ‘V. Plame’, so it could have been any of hundreds of people called that, so no harm no foul.” Makes no sense at all to me.
I posed in my previous comment, but I have to say that where you assert;
I make no such assumption. We don’t know that the leaker knew Wilson’s wife was a spook. Not everyone who works for the CIA is a spook, (i.e. spy), so it’s possible, (notice I’m saying only “possible), that someone could know Wilson’s wife worked for the CIA and still not know she was undercover.
See my comment above: Do you really think Fitzgerald would have gone through this elaborate investigation if that were the case? He could have cleared up the whole thing in about an hour if your view were correct. Doesn’t make the slightest sense.
He still has to investigaste to determine if there’s evidence showing that someone did know she was covert andthus committed acriminal act by disclosing her identity to Novak. Why do you (apparently) suggest such an inquiry would only take about an hour to complete? (And what’s elaborate about this investigation anyway)?
You seem to ignore that fact that Plame WAS undercover. That means only someone with security clearance would know about her. That means someone/s committed a serious crime.
You seem to be saying that the CIA hires spooks openly, puts them to work as file clerks or something, but REALLY they’re spies. Wow. Clever. The other side would never figure that out.
Get real.
but I remember something about her not being an active NOC (covert) operative at the CIA either at the time of her husband’s trip or at the time her name was leaked to Novak.
Mind you I’m not asserting this as fact, and if you have any evidence either contrary to or in support of this I’d be interested in reading it. I’m not even inferring specific relevance to this possibility except to offer it as a counter to your claim that; “… that fact that Plame WAS undercover. That means only someone with security clearance would know about her.
I no longer have any connections to the intelligence community so I don’t know yet if it’s possible to ascertain how NOC status is invoked and whether such status is removed if and when an operative is no longer deployed in such a capacity. Nor do I have any inside track that might reveal whether her NOC status was current or not. Here again, if you know any facts about this I’d love to hear them.
Absent direct evidence, there is the compelling rationale that the CIA wouldn’t bother to ask for an investigation if she wasn’t covert, but as obvious as such a perception might be, why then did the CIA not tell Novak more conclusively not to release her name, (or, if we assume Novak to be lying about his version of this conversation, why have we not heard someone from the CIA refute his (putative) lie.
I wan to reiterate something here, since the conversation seems to no longer be going anywhere. I hold whoever’s responsible for this disclosure accountable for a serious crime against the nation and against the personal life of Mrs. Plame/Wilson, even if I can only see the crime as violating the spirit of the law rather than the letter of the law. Likewise, even though I never accorded any integrity to the Bush regime to begin with, facilitating and condoning this sort of egregious behavior, even if it only violates the “spirit” of the law rather than the “letter” of the law, still places the imbecile Bush and his malevolent minions beneath contempt, and embarrassments to the very principles upon which the country was founded, and inimical in every respect to the best interests of the nation.
Washington Post article, page A01
Here’s a comment I posted on DKos about KR’s weaseling.
Egypt Election Daily News
If Rove knew that she was “working for the agency” [CIA] he had to know that her name was Valerie Plame because she worked there under that name.
—-
Suppose he did not know her birth name, he was talking with a reporter and reporters know how to research these things. He knew that.
His defense is worthless.
From Salon.com (subscription)
“My next-door neighbor, Joe Smith’s, wife is having an affair,” I haven’t really done anything wrong because I didn’t mention Mrs. Smith’s name?
This is an interesting theory….hmmmm…I could go around my workplace saying, “My supervisor is one hell of a jackass” but not get in trouble because I’m not mentioning him by name?
Welcome to the world of Rove.
Drop hints, innuendos, asides, ‘a word to the wise’ but
never let them pin you down on facts.
Facts = names, dates, places, documentation etc.
The bastard.
The link to the WH press briefing goes to the White House site. I couldn’t find a listing on CSPAN. Anyone know of other outlets?
Josh Marshall has some interesting bkgd on Karl’s lawyer. Also read the story above this one in the link
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/week_2005_07_10.php#006045
be able to watch the media outlets at all or my fucking head is going to explode! I envy the patience that some of you guys have concerning the media coverage and the laws broken by this administration. I don’t have it at all. Sometimes I just have to pull the plug and show up later on when my head stops exploding.
(if you get it…ours is on PBS)
Studies have shown that head explositivity is down 85% amongst sensitive liberal news viewers as opposed to the American network stations…
All I’m getting is a high-pitched sound … anyone else trying to listen to the whitehouse.gov press conf?
That sound would be the founding fathers spinning in their graves.
Scotty is trying to stonewall and it ain’t working.
“…not going to comment on an ongoing investigation.”
At least three reporters are hammering him. “But Scott you already said…”
“You keep asking questions about that and you already have my response.”
“And we’re gonna keep asking about that…”
I wouldn’t be in Scotty’s shoes right now for all the money in Walmart.
Ooohh….tell us more!!!! I love to hear about Scotty squirming like the little worm he truly is…
“You’re still trying to come at this from a different angle and you already have my response. Do you have a question on another topic?”
Several times different reporters reminded Scott that he stated in a press conference early on that he had gone around to Rove, Libbey, and someone else and asked them if they were the source of the leak. At that time he stated that each had denied they were the leak. More than one reporter pointedly asked Scott if he still stood by his earlier statement. Someone pointed out that they (the reporters) now know that at a previous press conference Scott told them something that was demonstrably false, clearly raising the question of Scotty’s own credibility.
Scotty launched into a spiel about his long personal relationship with the WH reporters, calling several by their first names.
“I’ll be happy to talk about all this at the apropriate time, when the investiation is done. Dana, April, you all know me very well…”
Scotty tried to change the subject several times. There were a couple of questions about possible SC nominees. O’Connor as CJ came up briefly. WJ Clinton’s name came up as a possible nominee. Scotty professed complete surprise which got a chuckle.
All in all I got the distinct impression that the WH press corps has noticed the scent of blood in the water.
I posted a diary recently that argues we need to encourage the media to frame both the Plame and the Downing Street Memo stories in terms of WH stonewalling. If we can get them onto the stonewalling scent, then nearly everything else will fall into place.
The diary also gives links to several WH press briefings that show the stonewalling at its most gruesome, like this one from 10/1/2003 about the Plame investigation.
Please, please, please talk up stonewalling at every opportunity. Even people who are underinformed about the news know that it’s bad when a President is stonewalling. It is a story that just keeps giving because it is hard to stop stonewalling once you begin…as little Scotty is finding.
They cut off April Ryan’s mike .. she’s from something Urban Radio. She kept asking what Rove’s position is? I couldn’t hear most of what she said.
Did you hear anything else? Damn! I had to feed my kids and I missed the whole damn thing.
Not much. Sigh…. I missed the beginning because I was trying to listen via the White House video, which never worked. By the time I turned on CSPAN, I’d missed a lot.
McClellan was peppered with questions about Rove, but kept saying he had no comment and directed reporter to the special prosecutor, saying the president was firm about doing all he could to coooperate.
I would have loved to have seen his face and see him squirm. I wonder if his face and ears turned red.
The WH site says the video will be available shortly. Then they put up a transcript — not sure how long that takes.
You could hear the stress in his voice. More than one reporter cut him off in midsentence as he tried doggedly to stick to the “can’t comment on an ongoing investigation” line. At least three reporters hammered him pretty hard. There is at least one short fast interchange that would make a juicy sound bite for the evening news.
Good!
If the airways are silent at least they are pelting the admin with questions!
I was hoping that BooMan or one of you had heard it all so you could write up a report. Or were any of you listening to Air America?
One of our regulars just sent me this e-mail message from work:
Susan,
hope you are around. I am at work but paulucla(my son) just called saying that Air America is slamming McClellans press conference this morning, saying Scotty was asked about Rove five different ways and kept saying “No Comment, this is an ongoing investigation”. The AA replayed the press conference where Scott said in no uncertain terms that no one ion the WH had anything to do with Plame leak. Paul said reporters were visibly pissed and Scott was visibly nervous. Can you get this up and out there?
I’m listening to the Al Franken show on Air America. Lawrence O’Donnell is coming up after commercial.
Can you try to keep us posted. I hate when things like this are going on and I am in my office. Booman keeps me connected. You all are great adding the next breaking news. I will catch up after lunch. If I hear anything I will relay it. Usually cspan will replay press conference in the evening. Hope they hold true to that tonight. i just want to watch the boy squirm. Am I bad?
Al Franken had on Matt Cooper and Judith Miller’s lawyer, Floyd Abrams. He was O.K. but Lawrence O’Donnell was great. He thinks that the crime may go beyond Karl Rove. The key is the transfer of information from classified personnel to non-classified personnel. A classified person would be in big trouble because they “knowingly” passed sensitive information. If Karl Rove had security clearance to the information, then he is in trouble which may be the case but O’Donnell thinks that Fitzgerald is interested in the person that gave the information to Rove.
David Corn asked if the president was aware that as president, he is allowed to take any action within the WH that he sees fit?
Which got a non-reponse — this was in follow-up to his question What action is the president going to take in light of this investigation…
There were some other decent questions too, as have been noted by other posters, but I’m not sure how bad this makes anyone look, because all SM did was hide behind “I won’t talk about an ongoing investigation”, even when the questions were not about the investigation — like: Does the president agree that after the investigation is over, the materials should be made available to the public?
The reporters still weren’t dogged enough for me, but better than usual, I suppose.
O’Donnell:
If you read the judges’ decisions, you’ll know this can’t be a perjury case. It is a national security case.
He thinks Rove may be too smart to commit perjury before the grand jury … he probably carefully parsed his words … he got pulled in three times because what he said didn’t jive with what was said by someone else …
How will the press prosecute this? From the press briefing, the press has been roused …
The Rove position: I need to delay the revelation as long as possible .. well past the election. … Rove knew he was in legal jeoprardy from the start.
(Isikoff is doing a fantastic job.)
What Luskin told Isikoff means nothing … re the “target” bsns. Luskin won’t answer O’Donnell’s questions…. O’D tried to ask him Qs.
Luskin now told Isikoff that Rove never knowingly broke the law .. that’s in the statute …
Cheney has discussed case with special prosecutor.
You haveto be an authorized security clearance to have the info. If Rove doesn’t have the clearance, the CRIME IS COMMITTED when the authorized person BREAKS THE WALL between authorized and unauthorized people.
This may be why he is being called back … to find out HOW Rove found out. That “could go to the highest levels.”
IF the president told Karl Rove — O’Donnell says that it’s possible — ‘when you take governors (Bush, Carter, Clinton, etc.) into classified discussions, they’re the least experienced and no one sits down and tells them the rules….”
Karl Rove is only in trouble if he is an authorized person.
O’Donnell thinks that Rove MISTAKENLY transmitted the info to Cooper, not knowing he wasn’t supposed to do so.
BREAK NOW
Back after the commercials.
— NOTES AFTER COMMERCIAL —
O’DONNELL CONVERSATION #3 POST:
Replaying 2003 McClellan statement that Rove wasn’t involved….
“That’s pretty funny … that was their position 8 days ago.”
TODAY, McClellan says : (playing his comments)
He will talk about it at the appropriate time. “Dont you still stand by what you said previously?”
ODONNELL: He lied. he won’t be glad to talk about this when the investigation is over.
Politically: A Q of what’s the public’s attitude towards this case. (WWing is doing a mirror story of this actual case.)
They’re are going to try to Clinton him through this with carefully chosen language. if the press or political forces (Dean, etc.) can somehow HOLD the presidetn to the original concept of what a violation would be, then Rove will absolutely have to lose his job based on what we know already.
— END OF INTERVIEW —
THESE ARE MY NOTES typed while listening to O’Donnell on with Franken and Katherine. There are THREE comments containing my notes.
From Bloggermann:
Make sure to catch his show tonight on MSNBC! Should be good.
Oh, this sounds bad. The White House looks like it’s in full damage-control mode. Sounds like there’s dirt here, and they’re desperate to prevent anyone from finding it.
If your like me and can only catch snippetes from tiem to time..
Here are some of the minutes from the briefingfrom TPM
Interesting stuff. I hope the back bone the press is showing here shows some endurance.
Go to this and look at the picture
somewhat convoluted story in the NYT about Cooper’s decision to testify. Here’s the link to the story here, and here’s a relevant para from the story.
Rove’s lawyer, it turns out said to the WSJ the following, and this lawyer’ lie provided Cooper an opening to go ahead and testify.
I’m much more hopeful now that with both Rove and his lawyer, as well as the entire criminal machine of the Bush empire, blatantly trying to screw Cooper on this that he might be more willing to present some truly meaningful evidence that could cause Rove to fall.
Hope springs eternal.