I suppose this is progress:
Keen to show off the muscle of their U.S.-trained forces, ministers said other towns were in the line of fire and state television ran repetitive footage from recent days in Tal Afar of Iraqi soldiers hunting and detaining men described as rebels.
Washington Post
You can see where Tal Afar is on this map of Iraq. It’s in the northwest corner, due west of Mosul, and not far from the Syrian border. The city is mostly made up of Turkmen. Many Turkmen are Shi’a, although I’m not sure of the sectarian dynamics of Tal Afar.
A simple google search reveals that we have already attempted to deal with insurgents in the city several times. For example, there is this from a July 21st, 2005 CNN article:
I wonder who got the contract for supplying the wall components? In any case, this time it appears the Iraqis are taking more of a lead role in the infantry aspects of this Falluja-style assault. We are still providing armor and air-cover.
I doubt anything wonderful will result from this offensive, but if it is seen as successful it will help bolster confidence in the central government. If the Iraqis actually perform as soldiers then it might be one step forward to the day when our soldiers can come home.
No matter what happens, we can expect Iraqi television to portray it is a great victory.
BooMan, it’s very jarring to see you write about Iraq. Oh yeah, Iraq … seems so long ago. Hmmm. can’t even quite think about it. Which is bad, I know. I promise I’ll read it.
Yeah, and I see that no one wants to discuss it.
From Tal Afar, a motley collection,
Of those opposed to US prefection,
With two hundred arrested,
Are insurgents now bested,
With swayed constitutional selection?
This pretty well sums up my thoughts… look for other “Sunni/insurgent” hotspots to be targeted by the US/Iraqi forces prior to the constitutional vote… this is Bu$hCo’s wet dream… Kill to intimidate people from voting… the heck with gerrymandering or understaffing polling places to create long lines… Iraq will be greased up to be shafted by this constitution, so’s Bush can run and not walk away with his little pyric genocidal victory… You WILL, by God, throw flowers at my feet…
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Is estimated by body count!
What was the result in Nam?
We forgot to count the people we turned into our enemies.
<click pic for story napalm>
▼ ▼ ▼
After declaring that Katrina death toll would not be so bad as previously thought, the US ordered another 50 thousand body bags, according to the story “for Katrina and Iraq.” sorry lost link.
What is the population of Tal Afar?
The people there are begging for help from anyone who will save them.
I forgot the box code:
“Residents of the northern Iraqi city of Tal Afar has sent out an SOS to the international community to interfere with the US occupation authorities to stop their continuing bombing of their devastated city, revealing a terrible humanitarian situation.
“US and Iraqi forces are still besieging Tal Afar amid ongoing intensive bombing, ordering residents of Hassan Kawi and Sarray neighborhoods to evacuate immediately,” a Tal Afar tribal leader told IOL over the phone Thursday, September 8.
“The Americans are seemingly bombing the city with chemical weapons,” he said, adding Tal Afar residents are speaking of suffocations and other health problems upon exposure to any hit area.
US and Iraqi troops have been besieging the city since Saturday, September 3, and were reportedly gearing up for a large-scale offensive. “
http://www.kavkazcenter.com/eng/content/2005/09/10/4058.shtml
Here’s the way I see it. I don’t think the central government likes it’s own “government troops”. They have no control over them. The US trains and controls them. They are competely useless it seems anyway and are not well trained because the Americans don’t speak Iraqi. Not enough of them. Everything is translated, there is no rapport.
Anyway that’s why the Iraqi government wants it’s troops trained by IRan. Then they will have more control.
The Iraqi governemnt is not a puppet government anymore. I believe they are in a undeclared war with the US with their ally Iran. They want insurgents to kill US troops in hopes that the war will become so unpopular they will leave. Then the IRaqi government deals with the insurgents through the Badr Brigades and it;s own militias and with help from Iran.
Also, the big thing is the insurgency will in part diminish to a point, with the exit of US troops. There will still be a war, but the Iraqi government and IRan can do the same things the US does. There are 30.000 badr brigage. Now the Kurds have 100.00 peshmerga. They have no worries with the US gone as far as being able to defend themselves.
to do justice to the complexities of Iraq in a brief comment, which causes us to oversimplify.
But understanding Iraq is very difficult.
The Kurds will never feel safe until the day the Sun burns out. It’s just not in the cards for them.
The Arab Shi’a and the Persian Shi’a will never get along or trust each other. Murder will remain the best method of moving up the ranks of the Ayotollahs forever.
And the Sunni Arabs will never accept second class citizenship in and around Baghdad.
I would predict that the insurgency will gain significant strength when the Americans leave and will actually succeed in taking over Baghdad. To avoid this, we will give support and Iran will probably give support. But the Shi’a will be as busy killing each other over who gets to control Najaf and Kerbala as they are with defending the central government.
There will be no peace in Iraq for 100 years.
-tween legs.
So… is there any reason on Earth to Stay?
I imagine you are right the Sunnis will easily take over Bagdhad should the US leave. But Baghdad is a governmental center not an ecomonic center at the moment. I don’t think the Shia or the Kurds are so concerned about Baghdad. Do you? I mean ulimately.
This is why I hate what Juan Cole says that the US should stay in Iraq and do the job right.
Just leave we have vomited all over them. We werne’t inviited.
according to early reports.