(Such a good discussion going, so many comments I decided to put up part II. You can also use this for the overnight cafe if you wish.)
As most of you know we have had a tradition on this site of periodicaly posting a “Tell Us About You” diary. Well today I want to change that a little and have a ‘Tell Us why you came to booman tribune ‘ diary and then add to that some questions in view of some recent discussions we are having?
1. Why did you come
2. Why do you stay
3. Are you happy with the site
4. What problems do you have with the site
5. What would you like to see changed
Also please take this chance if you have not done so to ‘tell us about you’ as well.
I will start off by saying I came to Booman for the civility and tranquility and the possibility I would have the nerve to post without fear of attack as I often felt on ‘other’ sites. The community of spirit that has developed was a bonus I had not anticipated but welcome and love dearly.
I find myself now in the ‘fear of posting’ dilemma; other’s said they felt the same so I thought we need to get this out on the table and talk about it as it is affecting some members on this site.
Please join me in the discussion!!
Continuing the discussion over here, everyone.
I replied in the previous thread, but failed to mention one key ingredient in my staying here: ((((diane101))))
Well thanks Blueneck, how kind of you!
Don’t think that we all don’t appreciate your excellent work as one of the unofficial site ambassadors, just because we don’t gush about it on a daily basis 😉
It was great seeing you out and about in the diaries today when the site really needed your tender touch, too!
Thank you for your kind words Yaright, btw I have been reading your comments today and I like what you have said around the site.
Maybe I broke through my writing and commenting barriers today. I have been going through; is it worth it to even write comments, do I have anything worthwhile to say…etc.
thank you! That really means a lot to me, coming from you.
I still think you and shirl were the best civility beat cop duo since Cagney and Lacey. The way you two could disarm a confrontation with a smile and some kind words before it burned out of control was something to behold in awe.
And I hope you do comment more, because I really do think you always have something to add. You were one of the few who set the tone of this place for me and a bunch of folks who got active about the time that I did. It would be sad if you didn’t feel good about posting in the place you helped create — in tone, if not in software.
I should probably be Lacey because I am taller (am too, Diane. . .but you’re the tallest 5’6″ Babe I know). But I just might be more like Cagney in personality. . .or not. Maybe I’m more like Xena meets Carol Burnett.
Cagney and Lacey. . .what a jewel of a comment!!!
Thank you so much Yaright. . .you absolutely made my day.
Hugs, and let me read you your rights,
Shirl
.
What an extreme and priceless description of diane and shirl, I think I just got the best second serving at breakfast this morning. A hearty and sunny contribution to start my day and heal from the fuss of some diaries over the weekend.
<<<MAKE LOVE, NOT WAR>>>
See my comment to spiderleaf and BooMan.
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Whoohoo, I’m home and can finally post guilt-free!
I gotta tell ya, the image of you as a cross between Carol Burnett and Xena had me grinning all day long!
I finally settled on Xena, with Carol’s hair, doing the tarzan yell…
Yaright, this may sound a little weird, because you and I don’t know each other, but I just want to say that I have grown really fond of you this weekend, based on a reading of a lot of your posts. You have so much calm intelligence to offer and you have given it generously and bravely, imo. Many times I thought “4” in my head, but I didn’t post it because I didn’t want my praise of you to give the appearance of denigrating someone else’s post, if that makes any sense. I’m really glad you’re here.
I will certainly second that emotion, Kansas. I have really enjoyed reading comments from you, yaright! I feel the same that I have been able to know a bit more about you and I like very much what I have seen.
So glad you are here. Very glad that you are a part of our family at BMT.
Hugs
Shirl
Thank’s shirl,
I’m glad to be a part of the family, too!
(and its an awesome family, and we keep getting great new people all the time!)
Thank you so much, kansas! I really do appreciate hearing that. I was really worried I’d come across poorly and my intentions would get lost. Its just so hard when people you admire disagree, or worse… ah well, I’m just glad it turned out pretty much okay in the end.
I know what you’re saying about ratings appearing to praise one side, and therefore denigrate the other. I’ve held back from ratings some 4s or posting “heck ya!”s myself. Especially in a conflict, where I just want to make peace.
But that has its drawback’s too. Media girl below posts she sometimes feels attacked, even here. I’ve often wanted to cheer her on, but held back. Now I wish I would have said something those times, instead of hanging back myself.
ditto
It is all Diane’s fault. . .she made me.
I stay here because of you, too, ((((shirlstars))))
I feel the same way about you, blueneck.
Love ya,
Shirl
Night Everyone I am going to bed now, but will see all in the FBC cafe in the morning. Have fun tonight. Get some sleep everyone, who knows what news will be waiting for us in the morning.
Morning, other side of the earthers…
since i don’t have enough wits at this time of night to post the detailed answer i had planned on giving, let me simply say before I hit the hay:
it always seems like a good use of my time, to spend it exchanging ideas with fair minded people, about what is going on and how we might make this world better for everyone. and BMT provides that like few other places i’ve been.
CookTing. . .I never had the opportunity to welcome you to Booman. . .so welcome and we are so glad to see you here.
Your comments are just exactly what so many of us feel is the best part of the Frog Pond.
Let’s hear more from you when you have the time.
Hugs
Shirl
After reading several blatant and personal attacks directed towards Ducktape, I have not been in the mood to post here today. But, after some thought, I will give this topic a go.
I started checking out Booman because of his stance on Ohio and his offer of an alternative to Kos. What really made me come was Susan Hu’s work on torture and the detainees in Gitmo. What I found was two people who really are intelligent and open minded and willing to discuss any issue on its own merits.
Then we got Patrick Lang and catnip and JPol and more. Booman is IMHO the place to really discuss politics and the state of the world as we know it without petty personal attacks and “my worldview is better than your worldview” bs.
I like Ducktape for the most part. Sure, s/he pisses me off sometimes, but I really believe his/her heart is in the right place. S/he often makes me think and often reminds me why I need to keep on fighting. Ducktape can be brutal with words and paint a wide brush, but often I think it is a fair portrayal of America. I do believe that we are responsible as citizens of this country and I do believe that we have allowed, through our complacency, atrocious crimes committed in our name. As an American, I do hold America responsible. I have always felt that people who joined our armed forces have made the problem worse and that they knew that they were supporting american hegemony. My own brother was in the Air Force, so I have some experience with the military mindset. These discussions here and elsewhere have opened me up some.
I am pissed at the U.S. and I am really really pissed about the aggressive stance the U.S. is taking. I don’t come here to talk about how cool the U.S. is and how cool their troops are. Right now, I think we couldn’t be displaying a more horrible front than we are.
I know I am not alone and I know that because I can come here and commiserate with others who feel the same way. I come here to find out how I can help to change things. It was because a fellow boomer, LibraryLil, posted about getting together on 9/24 that I got off my lazy ass and went out and protested. It was because of others that I wrote letters and made phone calls.
This is not a feel good site for me. It is a daily reminder that I have to work harder to return the nation to some vision of civilty. It is a site where I can speak my mind and know that someone out there can understand. If I got raked over the coals like Ducktape, I would be gone. While I can understand that some have bad feelings, I don’t really believe that DTF’s statements were made with such intentions.
I love the diversity of opinion here. I don’t agree with some and others annoy me and some I love. I’m not into cliques and I don’t hold grudges and I always love a good debate. This is what Booman means to me and this is why I stay. If I wanted angry snark attacks on members, I would have stayed at Kos.
I too was/am upset over the personal attack on ductape (who is a he), from some on this site. Even from some who recently wrote glowing testimonials to him.
It’s a difficult thing to see members that you like and admire, going after another member you admire, but I know personally I am not always ready to jump in and take some of the attacks myself for defending another. I do not always have the words to mend the differences, but I did note yesterday that members like Yaright stepped up and had their say, to my applause.
I am glad you came kamakhya, and glad you stayed.
My tag-line explains my arrival here. I appreciate the open thought that is allowable here.
Could someone please direct me to the diary or comments where ducttape was mistreated?
I loved it. That is what we here at Booman are: the great unwashed.
momentarily confused me with authors of US policies that put them in a very difficult position and there was a kid I think may have been auditioning for an internship as an IRS undercover op, but nothing good enough for a blog testimonial and certainly nothing like the uproarious emails I get every day.
None of it bothers me, I may be old but that does not mean that I do not remember what it is like to be young and full of “piss and vinegar” if the ladies will excuse the vulgarity.
Nice finish w/ the MLK quote, baby !!!
DTF, know that I have your back and am prepared to troll rate anyone that dares to turn this Boo-haven into fucking Dkos.
Keep challenging our pathetic collective conscience.
Kamakhya, so glad that you are here. Your remarks are thoughtful and express a lot of what I feel as well.
You know, even those of us who are very close and love each other dearly don’t always agree about one topic or another, but we do always agree to love each other and respect our differences.
Thanks again for your insightful remarks.
Hugs,
Shirl
While I agree with most of what you say, please keep in mind that people are accountable to their words… on both sides.
.
BREAKING NEWS IN GERMANY ::
Grand Coalition to be formed to solve Germany’s economic problems and high unemployment rate of 11% – large part in East-Germany!
First German Woman Chancellor
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Good morning all. I had to stop by on my way for getting ready for work, today. I love what you all are saying here in both diaries. I love the fact that sometimes we all get tooooo busy to simply say thanks to others for just being here and saying what is on their minds.
I have read so much this w/e that I still hurt in my mind from this….:o); however, it was worth it…
Thanks Diane for your oversight on this. I appreciate your work in so much of what you have done here. I hope you are well now. I have often thought of you and how things are going. ((shingles))
A lot has been going on in my professional life and have been way tooo busy to be productive like I want to be here.
I love this site. I would never leave. I would just read and not post, if need be…but that is not me, as you well know. :o)
I hope that things all work out for the best for everyone in concern here. This really does upset me to have this distention. I do understand the why of this tho.
Have a great day here and hope to catch up with you here soon….hugs….and by the way..the sun came up this am with overcast…I bet we have some rain…it has been way tooo cooool here…but..do not like this at all…:o)
Brenda, When I first met you during the “great influx”, I just fell in love with you right off. I so enjoy your comments and you add a great deal to this site.
I, one of many, am really glad you are here and a part of our family.
You always have something insightful and interesting to add to our discussions. . .keep it up when ever time permits.
Hugs
Shirl
oh my heavens Shirl, Thanks so very much. You are such a darling. I love everyone here. I can learn something each time I log on here. This is simply great for me….
I think I’ve drifted from overnight to early morning but I’m giving this question a shot anyway.
I came here to learn, to discuss, although I lurk more than post, and to enjoy the feeling of community. I have been led to be more active politically,to see more sides of the debate, to look more closely at things and those are all good things.
I stay because I’m still learning, although the recent days have been more than rocky, I think that’s probably to be expected from human beings, we get like that sometimes.
One thing I have to say, I’m an American, this is my home, my family in a way. And I’m harder on my family than on strangers because I care deeply about them and when I see them doing something I find wrong I feel at least partly responsible and I want to believe we can be better than that. I don’t give up on them but I don’t close my eyes to their faults either. They return the favor, usually with interest! If I can’t look at them honestly and tell them the truth as I see it than how can we move on together? I don’t deny that the family down the block or across the way may have just as many problems but I can’t start anywhere but here. Home truth, I guess.
Vida, as always you have thoughtful and important insights to add to the discussion. I am so glad that you are a part of our family.
Your talent and your participation is a wonderful gift to us all.
Hugs
Shirl
Got too crowded over at DKos. Diaries flew too fast. Not enough time to digest a diary and respond.
As an example, I received a notice of a GAO report in an area where I am fairly familiar. I downloaded the report, spent an hour typing up a fairly comprehensive analysis, only after posting to be told that Kos had already diaried it in the center section and to please delete my diary.
I checked and found Kos’s “breaking” one paragraph diary in the center section. After reading the comments it was apparent that few had actually read the report. Because it was a heavy news day, the diary was already at the bottom of the center section. Sure enough it was gone in about 30 minutes.
At this point, I realized there will be the center section people (all talented, btw), their fans (as well as sycophants) and the vast herd (not disparaging the quality of the herd).
Since I don’t write often enough to make the center section, and I don’t write fast enough to be first on a breaking story, I limited my time to responding to other diaries. But with the speed they go by, it often times never engages discussion. Rather, there appears to be just a constant repeating of posters’ personal talking points.
Here at the BooTrib, I can engage in a discussion with other enlightened people, even those I disagree with. And that discussion may take several days, allowing time to mull and refine responses, remove emotional dicta, and above all, maintain focus.
Hi B Rubble! I certainly agree with your comment. It seems this is, at least for me, a much better pace in which to thougtfully consider the things we discuss here. It does allow for more focused and considered interactions with others.
Glad to see you are still around.
Hugs
Shirl
I occasionally lurked over at DailyKos but never felt any desire to join up. During the pie wars, I saw some comments about BooTrib and decided to check it out. I immediately like what I saw and signed on.
I like the discussions, I even like the arguments but then I’m (culturally) Jewish and as we say “two Jews, three temples”. It’s good to have free-flowing ideas and if sometimes things get heated, it’s because people are passionate about their beliefs. To my mind, that’s all to the good: it makes everyone think and gets other people stirred up about their own beliefs; it’s an apathy-killer.
This place is also important to me because I’m a telecommuter and so I either am working at home or am at customer sites. I live in a very red state. It’s easy in these circumstances to feel isolated, frustrated, and out of touch. The community I’ve found here has really saved me from that.
I’m pretty much a cynic and a pessimist but I have a core belief I cannot shake that there are always people who see the good that needs to be done and try to make it happen. Even when they don’t fully succeed, they always end up causing some incremental change for the better. And BooTrib is overflowing with this kind of person.
AndiF
I enjoy your comments and photos so much. You have been a wonderful addition to the Frog Pond. And I will have to say it surprised me to see you describe yourself as a cynic and pessimist. Obviously your “core belief” far outshines those aspects, because you do not come across that way to me at all.
As another “red state” resident, I understand fully what you mean about the importance of this site and our connections with each other.
Always enjoy your participation.
Hugs,
Shirl
for your “confusion” — after years of practice at not upsetting her, I’m very good at reining in both tendencies. But I absolutely believe in the inerrancy of Bierce’s “Devil’s Dictionary”.
And (proving that my mother, as she will tell you, raised me right) thanks for the kind words.
I’ve not read the other comments here. And I confess I’ve not come here very often in the last week or so. Why? I find it hard to pinpoint one thing, but I can say that in general I’ve become disillusioned with the whole “netroots” thing when the biggest and loudest voices on “the left” who claim to represent and lead the “netroots” are pushing so hard to move the Democratic Party rightward while vilifying the real grassroots.
I feel attacked not only by religious nutjobs, misogynist MRA types, and martinet neo-fascists, but also by the so-called opposition that claims to be “liberal” and/or “progressive” while attacking anyone who actually defends any liberal or progressive values.
I am very disillusioned by the apparent eagerness to abandon reproductive rights. I see the Democrats embracing more and more of these anti-choice folks, and I see the biggest überbloggers scolding us repeatedly for objecting to this.
I can tell you I’m not the only one. We are waking up to this shit. And we are not pleased. My 69-year-old mother, who has never ever voted Republican and maybe once or twice voted for a third party candidate in a minor election, and who has given thousands of dollars to the Democrats every national election, has vowed to never give them a dime again.
That’s money, for all you “money is the only important thing” types.
I’m disgusted. And now going online has become an exercise in getting my teeth kicked in every day. That’s not pleasant. It ruins my coffee.
And I feel I’m witnessing the death of the Democratic Party. These asshats and fucktards are destroying it by pushing ever harder to have it represent nothing.
I’m disgusted and angry and in despair.
And while BMT is not as bad as elsewhere, it’s not the sanctuary it once was. Debate is becoming Kossified here. And so I come here only when someone sends me a link to look at, or when I’m feeling particuarly strong enough to take a kick in the teeth or bs thrown in my face, which doesn’t always happen but happens enough.
I am a very political person, but right now the voice with the most appeal to me right now is Timothy Leary’s. And any readers who don’t get that reference need to crack open some history books and learn about the days when liberal and progressive values not only flourished in government policies, but also dominated — DOMINATED — all political discourse. If you don’t know it happened before, no wonder you don’t believe it’s possible.
/rant
I love reading the in-depth analysis that you do at your site. You have a truly lively intelligence. In fact, I wish you would cross-post over here more. BooTrib would really benefit if you did.
As a life-long independent voter, I’ve really appreciated the lack of self-centered, do-anything-for-the-party zeitgeist here. Yes, there are some of those but they seem to me to be by far the minority.
So please come around more often. I’ll volunteer to stand in front of you and take the kicks to the teeth — hell, I’m in my fifties, I’m probably going to be losing them soon anyway.
You are so right AndiF!
Media Girl, you do an amazing job here and at your site. I am constantly engrossed in your abilities and assesments of current situations. We do indeed need you and your voice and I echo the sentiment that we would like to see more of your posts over here at BMT.
Since I’m even older than AndiF, and probably older than dirt, itself, I don’t mind standing in front of you either. Heck I’ve had it all thrown at me over the years, and in the end it has just made me stronger.
We got your back, MG
Hugs
Shirl
I hope that I can stand behind you and andif then also…..cause I don’t like being in any line of fire….
Media Girl, we love you here, I think the tone has shifted several times, maybe it is shifting back, or forward or whatever. Became uncomfortable for me as well for some of your reasons and some of my own. One of the reasons I put up this diary.
Diane! You are one of the most intrepid souls I know. But if you are ever uncertain, know I will stand in front of you. . .and at my size, I am sure that no one could even figure out how to make a hit on you.
and there is always Xena.
Love ya,
Shirl
because she’ll start dreaming about being surrounded by a bunch “old toothless women” 😉
Oh my gawd AndiF. . . .ROFLMAO. . . The visual of that is too much! Just cracked me up big time!!
Gee, wonder how many registered Independents/Unaffiliated voter-types are Boo Tribbers?
Do you and I need to start a third temple?
I’m not sure that there are currently that many but if the dems don’t make some changes, we might start getting more company.
We’ll have to make a change to the nature of that third temple though — since the three are temples are mine, yours, and a third one that we can both refuse to go to.
And here. Count me as one of your ranks. I am far too liberal a bleeding heart for the Democratic Party, that’s when I can even figure out who the Democrats think they are these days. That ain’t easy. . .and if they don’t address that seriously and soon, they are never going to win another election.
of being an independent in a small county in a red state is that I can vote for whatever third party presidential candidate pleases me with no guilt factor and when I read the vote tallies in the weekly paper, I am one among the very few — it feels so special. My favorite year was 1980 when I was the only vote in the whole county for Barry Commoner.
I’m sorry you feel attacked sometimes here when you post, because I’ve loved your posts. You’re one of the voices that challenge our thinking around here, and I think that’s important. I have to admit, I purposely don’t list your name with the other “controversial” people on site because you shouldn’t have to carry their “baggage”. But I’ve seen you all treated the same, and there is no reason for any of us to put up with it anymore.
Posting here should be fun! This administration, and “our own party” suck enough fun out of life, posting here with others who care shouldn’t!
I respect your decision to stay away, but don’t think for a second you aren’t missed.
In the end, you gotta do what’s right for you.
(oh, and I couldn’t agree more about being sold out by our blog ‘heroes’ and ‘leaders’ and other ego driven maniacs. Their believers may still want to think the best of their motives, but there’s still hope. Even Bush’s kool-aid drinkers have finally figured it out, ours will too, someday)
I missed the dust-up this weekend, thankfully.
Take a deep breath everyone. We each have a role to play in helping to change our world for the better. We’re colored by our cultures, our hardships, our achievements, our families and our basic ‘selves’. We are diverse and rich as a community more than we could hope. Let’s celebrate that and remember that we can learn from anyone if we allow ourselves to be open.
Paz
I too missed the dust-up. I drifted here after the pie wars.
Your comment about taking a deep breath would have been lost during and after the pie wars and that is what I like about this site. I like how we approach a wide range of topics maturely and often philosophically.
I like that people take a personal interest in each other and that personal diaries are encouraged and recommended.
I really feel that making those personal connections is how we can bridge much of the political divide in our country. It is those connections that remind us that we have much in common and that our humanity transcends “blueness” and “redness.”
There are real solutions to the problems in the world and we won’t get there by dismissing most people outright. Even if we don’t agree with someone, we can usually, if open-minded, glean something valuable from their point of view, even if it is something that strengthens our own argument.
It is so good to see your comments here. You have stated very well what I feel is so special about BMT.
We all do have much more in common than we have differences.
Keep those good words coming.
Hugs,
Shirl
Thanks Shirl. That means a lot coming from you.
Manny, you know how I feel about you. . .and I see your comment continues to prove my point:
You are the most mature and wise 24 year old I have ever run into. So anytime I need a responsible adult in my life, I will just call on you. And I need responsible adult supervision most of the time!
Love you Manny G,
Shirl
for the compliment. I done went and turned a quarter-century on you last month! You and the rest of the welcome wagon crew have been integral in maintaining open dialogue, I’m glad to see you adding your personal heart-felt responses to everyone. As for the maturity thing, you should’ve seen me on Saturday night. O:-)
Paz and love,
Man Eegee
Manny, love, we are all entitled to our Saturday Nights! I probably would have been right there egging you on if I had been present. LOL Be a “kid” all you want, whenever you want, it’s what makes life fun.
And Happy birthday! 25!. . .a great time in your life, so have a great time!!!
Shirl
I registered at BT when Mr. Booman announced at dKos but then I forgot about it. I first really checked this site out after the Pie Wars — having been a women’s studies minor in college, and knowing that feminist theory is just as challenging as Hegel or Kant when it’s done properly, that remark from Kos really pissed me off. I thought he was not only wrong about several things during that whole blowup, but he was also unnecessarily offensive and patronizing. It seemed to mark a sense of permanence about some changes I’d been feeling for a while at dKos. I’d been posting over there since well before the Scoop format implementation, so this view arises from a long time of observation and participation.
During the massive migration out of dKos that occured as a result of the Pie Wars, some of my favorite posters and diarists washed up on the shores of the frog pond, and that led me to hang around a while. I stayed because the smaller site memership and the sort of membership it is come together to create a space where there are some very good political conversations happening on a regular basis, and that’s a primary point of a political blog for me. Being disabled and having my interaction in the 3D world rather limited, it’s nice to have a place to indulge that obsession…err, interest.
I like the Booman Tribune, so I keep coming back. I like the spirit of community here, and the things it leads to like photog fairs and book club diaries, and the more serious things, like people supporting each other through difficult life transitions, etc. I like Booman, too, even though he and I approach political analysis from very different perspectives, and I suspect he doesn’t much care for me (but he probably would like me if we ever sat down and had a beer or something).
I wouldn’t change the site — I think the continued passage of time will change it enough.
IndyLib, your voice has contributed so much to this site. I am very glad that you have chosen to hang around and share with us.
I feel lucky that I have the opportunity to interact with ones like you in this caring community and format. You are a big part of why this is such a great place.
Hugs
Shirl
Well, there’s a set of [complimentary and thus quite welcome] overstatements if I’ve ever seen one! Shirl, you say such nice things to me I might just have to lay a big fat kiss on you someday. ;p
Seriously, thanks so much also for all that you share and contribute to the blogosphere. It’s a smarter, kinder, more meaningful and more entertaining place with you in it. (Plus, as you and I share certain…attributes…you know I love the Xena & Gabrielle pix, lol.)
LOL. . .Indy. . .as they say, “Bring it on!” I am always available for a “big fat kiss.”
Priceless. And what appear to be overstatements are just me heaping on the long overdue praise, support and encouragement that we all need and deserve. And none of you would even recognize me if I wasn’t always going over the top about things, now would you? I appreciate your “overstatements” as well. Thanks.
Yep. . .there’s a lot to love in the Xena & Gabrielle archetype!
I like to think that’s a fair representation of what a picture of us would look like, Shirl. Damn, we’re some fine looking women.
😉
We are FABULOUS looking, aren’t we!! Yep we look pretty damn good together and I can’t imagine any that would want to mess with us.
I came here because I felt the site needed more political cartoons featuring talking barnyard animals.
Seriously, I came here because of the slower pace and the civil tone. With a lot of these sites, like Atrios and dKos, it’s tough to get your voice heard because of the sheer volume of posts. It’s also nice to read discussions that don’t devolve into flame-fests. This group’s members have been able to develop relationships with each other, which tends to counteract the inherent anonymity of internet forums. That’s great because it’s anonymity that seems to give people license to be rude, disrespectful and crude on the web.
Keep up the good work!
Spike! you are so right. It is very hard to be rude and nasty to someone you have come to know. That’s part of what was so brilliant about Diane’s idea to create the Froggy Bottom Cafe. A space to get to know each other better. . .just brilliant!
Hugs
Shirl
Living in the country surrounded by exemplary barnyard animals of all types (even you might find it hard to imagine what some of them are), I adore seeing how you separtate the sheep from the goat with your ink scalpel.
Great talent. Much appreciated. Don’t stop. I’ll stop.
Spike, I look forward to your cartoons every day. You are a part of Booman to me! Thank you.
I stay because of the people I’ve met here, the diaries I’ve read, and the tone that has been established by Booman which is one of greater civility than at Kos, and a chance for more reflection on progresive issues rather than merely what tactical approach the Democrats should be taking vis-a-vis the latest GOP outrage.
I’ve been busy all weekend trying to help my ten year old sell girl scout cookies.
any thin mints left?
There’s always more thin mints.
;0)
don’t ask man, don’t ask… 😉
actually, I think ‘dust up’ is completely apropo to what happened… and the dust is settling and we are all still talking.
It’s a good thing.
dust up…I would rather have than a dust off. Thse can be seriously bad….:o)…btw a dust off is when a med evac helo is comeing to a hot zone or a drop off.
A lot of us can blame Susan for one reason or another. . .LOL. . .very glad you have come to participate with us and add your voice to our discusssions.
You are a good dad for helping with the GS cookie sales! I’ll bet your daughter thinks you are pretty terrific. So do we here at the Frog Pond.
Hugs
Shirl
1. Why did you come
because I was unwelcome at DailyKos
2. Why do you stay
2 reasons. the attitude is more civil, discussion is allowed. I’m an activist. I have an agenda to promote. Oh, thats really 3 isn’t it?
3. Are you happy with the site
Mostly yes, on occasion no.
4. What problems do you have with the site
Booman isn’t a community. It’s multiple communities, several of which appear to me to be barely on speaking terms with each other.
5. What would you like to see changed
The world. Oh, Boomantribune? Booman’s ok, warts and all.
Could you please explain the “multiple communities” comment in number 4? Perhaps because I missed the big hullabaloo, but I am a little lost.
I have to disagree with the “multiple communities” statement. We are actually all speaking with each other. We’ve been doing so for the last 3 days & continue to do so… and I don’t know who “we” is actually anyway. I am me & I had some issues with a few others… others in our community had the same issues… so we are in the process of hashing them out… after we got past the vitriol and started communicating with each other… the essence of a community.
anyhoo, that’s how I prefer to look at it.
well you’re certainly free to disagree, however, you don’t see the communities from the same frame of reference that i do. if you did you would see the divide that is visible to me.
my point of view originates from a feminist perspective and my interests lie in stopping the very real decay of women’s reproductive rights due to “push” from both political parties, democrat and republican, to further restrict women’s reproductive rights in the united states. a good example is the push you’ll soon be seeing with 95-10. in many ways the communities im speaking of is very much an “americun thang” and also exists in other progressive communities. as we get into the political primary season in 2006 you’ll become much more aware of the divide i’m speaking about. it’s going to become quite apparent, if not here at booman, in blogistan in general. women who are involved in “pushing back the push back” here or elsewhere, are quite aware of what i’m speaking of, or at least i assume they are.
by the way, my comments have nothing to do with whatever went around here on the weekend so please don’t “read” that into what i’m saying. frankly, i’ve been busy with my own-self and am only dimly aware of a conflagration. so basically im clueless. a poll was posted and i’ve responded with how i see things. im sorry you disagree. my viewpoint is my viewpoint though, and perfectly valid when viewed from inside my shoes.
and i also want to emphasize that all in all i enjoy boomantribune and i come here frequently.
Thanks for your response bayprairie, and I certainly meant no disrespect. I was merely responding to your sentence about some of whom seem to be barely speaking to each other…. considering what was going on this weekend I assumed you were speaking of that, apologies if you were not.
I am not sure what the battles for reproductive rights on this blog have been outside of perhaps a few isolated posters, boomantrib is remarkable pro-female & choice…. so I have no frame of reference for that sentiment. I left dkos after ‘women’s studies set’ and found bootrib to be a welcoming home… probably why I took offense to the “multiple communities” remark. I don’t see that happening and I am a firm believer in being the change you seek.
In terms of 2006 and the other blogs, I agree completely, but I didn’t see it as relevant to this particular blog, sorry.
of course your view point is your view point, I happened to disagree and told you so.
glad you’re here.
cheers,
spider
Hey, bayprarie. . .
I remember all the wee hours of the night we used to bump into each other as you were “sweeping up” at the FBC. I miss running into you so much.
Sorry that it feels like we are multiple communities displaying bad behavior to you. It is just a rough spot in the road and we have the graders and equipment out to smooth out the rough spots. It is all a part of transitioning.
Your passion and activism are sorely needed. You have found places to express that. There are many others who will never feel the strong convictions that you feel. Yet, it is my hope that it will not diminish you or those with less passionate views. Generally speaking (and that can be dangerous), we all usually feel closer to those things that seem to affect us personally and most directly.
Human rights are vitally important to all of us. And I am of the thought and conviction that we should never step aside from what are the most important issues to us. The truth is, however, that many, for whatever reasons, do not feel so affected by the things that seem to be screaming to us in their rank of importance. That too is a place of learning to allow that everyone has their view.
It is not going to happen that we will probably win over the apathetic, until or unless it directly affects their personal life. That does not mean we should stand down from our outrage and concern. It is amazingly unfortunate and discouraging that “Those in the Democratic Party roles of influence and power” are so eager and willing to throw the “baby” overboard. It will take them not where they think it will. They are looking at literally millions deserting the ship. What they gain, or think they will, they will lose 3 times over. JMO, but I so understand where you are coming from. The move along, get along, appeasers are much more difficult for me to understand.
You have added a lot to my wonderful experiences at Booman. I hope you will continue to participate with us as much as feels good to you to do so.
Big Hugs,
Shirl
and i miss running into you too!
I came following the pie fight refugees to some extent — people whose posting I had admired over on the Other Blog. (I confess, I still read the Other Blog, because there’s some news there that just doesn’t show up anywhere else, but I’m much more likely to join in the discussion here). I liked much more welcoming atmosphere at the Frog Pond — the welcome diaries, the support for unconventional points of view, and the general tone of the site discourse as set by Booman and Susan Hu (and the fact that they took care to SET such a tone in the first place). I also have very much enjoyed the personal touches — the Froggy Bottom Cafe (even though I rarely have time to hop in), the recent photo fair (wow. That was SO cool, what a NEAT idea!) and the non-political diaries that allow us to get to know each other as individuals in a community. This really IS much more of a community — there’s much more of a sense of getting to know one another, becoming familiar with posters’ names, and sharing bits and pieces of each others’ lives offscreen (so to speak), and I like that.
I very much enjoy reading so many of the frequent posters here. I like the variety of topics, the detailed discussions that sometimes ensue, and the divergent points of view — even when I don’t agree. I appreciate that we HAVE divergent points of view here, because that’s a much more accurate reflection of this country and the international community the internet provides. I also like the slower pace — it means that a diary and discussion I read at lunch but don’t have time to write a comment for might still be AROUND when I get off work and check back in. One of these days I may even write a diary myself…. too busy right now to put in the amount of time such an effort would deserve. Until then, I will just continue to check in and see what’s hopping about the pond.
I know that sometimes people post things, both diaries and comments, coming from a place of anger. Anger comes from being hurt, or a strong sense of injustice, and insofar as the poster feels that emotional response, it’s important to remember that the original sense of outrage, of injustice, is that their feelings are legitimate and justified, even if the manner of their expression (or the exact words they use) may not be especially well-considered, or even totally accurate. And sometimes their expression of anger may trigger the anger of someone else — and the exchange that follows is based on the words used, not the underlying substance of the legitimate grievance presented in the original post. Anger gets redirected at the more available target, and things get out of hand; people get offended, feelings are hurt, and nothing is achieved. At the core of every angry diary or comment is someone’s legitimate sense of injury and outrage, even if it’s not well expressed, or targets the wrong people. Sometimes, if that feeling of anger and outrage is first acknowledged, we can get a discussion going further. Sometimes we can’t. Sometimes what the original poster really needs is a place to vent all that anger and frustration, and the best response to make is no response at all (which is usually my response to things that make me uncomfortable or I don’t agree with, but I can also understand how that doesn’t work for other people, who are themselves hurt or outraged at what another poster writes.)
But even with the occasional angry thread, the level of discourse here is considerably more open, respectful and honest than anywhere else I’ve read, even on the occasional “controversial” topic. And that’s a very good thing. This community and its divergent voices is far more than the discussion on any single thread. Expecting the discussion to always run smoothly is rather like expecting a marriage to be “happily ever after” — sometimes shit happens, and the pond gets a bit rough, and relationships have to be worked at. But this community can survive that, if we want it to. And I think it’s worth it.
Janet, I remember you from the “great influx”. . .and I really enjoyed your thoughtful and considered comment on this diary. You have a wonderful way of expressing things. I am looking forward to the time you find the time to post a diary here. I know it will be well worth reading.
So glad that you are still here and still participating. Really so glad you are a part of our family here.
Big hugs
Shirl
well, i’m really too new to bootrib to answer much beyond #1, but more open threads would be nice.
Cedwyn, did you know that the Froggy Bottom Cafe, is a constant open thread, where you can go to hang out and talk to other members. A new diary is hosted every day by a different member of the hosting team. So come on over to the cafe and say hi and btw welcome to the site.
Somewhere around the time of the Pie diaries I started coming here. Boo left a comment in one of my diaries and it had a link to here (I don’t remember what the comment was or which diary?). So I checked it out the link to see his blog. (well, I assumed it was his blog, given that his Kossack name was Booman and the link was called “Booman Tribune”.
When I saw the front page it surprised me to find a diarist here that I had recently come to enjoy reading over there (susanhu). The other thing that struck me was that one of the front page articles was on possible election fraud…
I couldn’t help but think: “WOW! A rational discussion on this without flaming of the comments, etc.?”
Been hooked ever since…
Don’t get me wrong here. I still go over to dKos because they are really an incredible resource for information, news, and insights.
The thing I like here is that I can say what I want without getting zeroed out just because someone disagrees with a particualr statement or strategy. Most Kossacks are reasonable, but some are relentless in that way.
I have strong opinions on several subjects. One thing I like to keep in mind is that while I disagree with many strategies and positions held by members of the Dem party and their supporters, well, as an independent that is “way-far left” of the “farrr right wingers” in power, these Dems are my allies, even if I am slightly left of most Dems, and I would rather focus on the issues we share than the ones where we disagree.
I think the reality of how much “Dem supporters” and I are much closer in our political leanings than “Dem supporters” and their own candidates is something that is just being realized in the last few years as a universal truth. The average Dem voter is more left wing than the party line.
The evidence of this? Look at the HUGE cross-section of grass-roots support for the few Dem candidates that push the real left issues we all worry about? John Conyers types, Tubbs-Jones, Boxer, etc… They may not be “perfect candidates” in my view, but they are at least making an attempt to appease the grass-roots base and represent on most issues.
Now look at the timid support for any of the so-called moderates? The base of the Dem party is much further to the left of them, and may consider a vote for these candidates just “for the party’s sake”. But now you have even hardcore “party-line tower’s” questioning this and trying to take the party back in the primaries before “moderate right-wingers” can get on a ticket. This is a huge change in Dems politics that, in the long run, can only result in a stronger party.
Yep, the growing pains may hurt in the short-run, but it will give the Dems grass-roots back the platform that originally built the party.
Here, and a few other places, this gets some serious discussion. In other places this issue, the most important issue of all for the Dem party’s future, is dismissed as “one issue” junk.
I’ll stop now, because this is way too long for a comment! lol
Suffice it to say that I like it here a lot. I also like the fact that everyone here goes out of their way to look out for the people that participate, even the ones they disagree with.
And the main reason this works?
It is a “top-down” community-driven mentality to accept differences of opinions, and to try and address them rationally. This is “reality” and will only make the community and the left stronger in the long run.
1. Why did you come?
DailyKos. Not just because of the pie wars or sexism, but a in response to the gradual realization that that site feeds on meanness and bullying. Plus you all were serving drinks in the Froggy Bottom lounge the first time I came by. My kinda place.
2. Why do you stay?
You all are nice, thoughtfull people who can have a conversation without name-calling, ratings abuse and belittling each other. It’s nice to be able to discuss the state of our country without getting into a pissing match about who has the most insider information or worrying about how our comments will effect Booman’s career. 🙂 Plus the European Tribune-Booman Tribune link makes it simple to check in here. I spend a lot of time reading ET.
3. Are you happy with the site?
Sure. Nice photography fair, btw. I dig the community oriented stuff.
4. What problems do you have with the site?
None of any significance.
5. What would you like to see changed?
Uhm… Maybe some explanation of what all of those HTML codes mean? I mean “Cellpadding?” Yikes!
Cellpadding is an act of kindness to one’s words, as they are otherwise jammed hard up against the unforgiving inside of the box.
(I have discovered that the “blockquote” command is more than adequate for boxing any quotes one wishes to set off — formal table codes are only necessary if you want to create colored boxes or specific sizes, etc.)
The Hackett campaign in OH2 this summer raised my awareness of the blogosphere and I just had to find out more. My first lurkings were at DKos, as I’d seen the site connected to the campaign. Later, I saw a reference to BT there and stopped by to check it out.
You were discussing issues that were near and dear to me, as well as pausing occasionally to “stop and smell the roses” like the FroggybottomPhotoFair this weekend. I see kindness and compassion here in many of the postings and feel that there are those here who are warm and caring.
Civility is important to me, and even after caustic disagreement there is healing and forgiveness here. Seems like my own family. My spouse has never forgiven the Democrats for the Gulf Of Tonkin Resolution and is often quite angry and vocal about it (and Iraq), while I prefer a quieter persuasion one-on-one. Perhaps the spouse’s way is better. I think it’s good for me to revisit my old beliefs at times and check for validity. You have all helped me with some of my personal reality checks. As I grow older, I find that I’m not nearly as wise as I was in times past.
Since I don’t remember having the opportunity to welcome you here, let me do it right now. . .Welcome!! Very glad to have your participation and sharing your views with us. I hope you will do a lot of it.
And I’ll bet you’re plenty more wise than you were in times past, just wise enough to see that none of us know as much as we thought we once did.
Really glad to have you here.
Hus
Shirl
Thanks for the welcome shirl! Happy to be here.
I’m just checking back in after returning from a League Of Women Voters get-together with our state senator, Vi Simpson, an exceptional legislator. Some of us are out spreading the word about the horribly restrictive voter photo id law that was passed in Indiana last session.
I came over here after the piewars because so many of my favorite posters did and because Shirl issued an invitation. I read Boo every day now because so many of my favorite posters remain and I’ve aquired several more people whose diaries I will always read.
I admit to a particular sense of affinity with Ghostdancer’s Way and Media Girl (for completely different reasons)
Another reason I greatly enjoy Boo is that I think the ground rules have been thought out quite well and that the ‘don’t be a prick’ rule and the quality of the moderators is sane and that this makes for more interesting conversations..
Hey Coleen. . .How insightful of me to have offered the invitation to you!! LOL
Really glad to see you here and participating. Sometimes I just have damn good judgement!
Hugs
Shirl
Came here from dKos, though I do still spend some time there — only because I’m as stubborn as they come, and I refuse to cede any ground to… well, to shallow thinking, I guess. It wasn’t the pie wars, which I actually completely missed, or any one other unapologetic foot-in-mouth moment or argument or what have you that convinced me that I’d be better off spending more time elsewhere, but the slow realization over the past many, many months that all real discussion had been tossed overboard in favor of a belief that discussions are yes/no arguments that are to be won or lost, and that that goes much deeper than me not being particularly fond of markos himself and his ego/attitude these days.
Which is related to why I like it here; for the most part, even when people disagree, they are respectful and respond to each other as people having a disagreement rather than as people trying to one-up each other via snark or catch-phrases.
I also came here because many of my favorite posters from dKos wound up here. I’m a firm believer that a blog is defined largely through the crowd of posters that it draws; this is not to say that the “top” (the folks running the show) have nothing to do with it, and actions/attitudes on the top tend to encourage or discourage certain actions/attitudes on the part of posters. The behavior of those with any kind of “power” tends to filter downward, attracting or repelling certain qualities. Point being that this place has encouraged a very open atmosphere, and by and large a pretty respectful one as well — this has encouraged posting by the many thoughtful people here whose insights I value.
I’m pretty happy with the site, though I’ve been mostly lurking lately. I think it will be interesting to see whether things get harder here as it grows — a lot of the lower tension, realistically, also probably has to do with the slower pace. We all have time to read diaries and digest them and respond carefully here, and if that changes, I hope we can work out a way to still encourage thoughtful, rather than quick, reactions. The current pace also means that I still get to read diaries that may or may not have appealed to a wide enough audience to make it to the recommended list, which is great for me; I tend to like stuff that most people find too long or dreadfully boring and wonkish.
I missed this latest dustup, so I can’t comment on that.
Spit,I remember you from dkos, and I am very glad that you are spending more of your time with us over here at the Frog Pond.
You expressed very well many of the reasons I came to BMT to make my home. We seem to have a lot in common. And so, YOU are the one that reads my intolerably long posts and comments! Thanks. . .;o)
Good to see you here and have you participate.
Thanks for the welcome! It’s been great to find so many of the people here that I had been missing over at dkos.
And clearly it would be amazingly hypocritical of me to be intolerant of other people’s long posts and comments. Brevity has never been my strength.
This place is great partially because there’s so much diverse stuff going on — there’s room for both long analyses and shorter news/action items, along with plenty of personal stuff thrown in for good measure. It’s a good mix. Focus can be useful; it can also be a good way to utterly miss any insights into the multiple levels on which everything operates, IMO.
I swear I must give my english profs ulcers. I’ll shut up now. 😉
I came in the morning of Booman Tribune. There was something in the breeze, in the golden light of the sunrise, in the delicious trills of the birds… We were young… A whole new world was opening before us….
And I’m still here, mostly lurking late at (French) night, but definitely feeling part of this community I can’t help coming back to…
What a very romantic description, thanks for that!!
Glad you came in the morning, glad you come in your “night”.
Lurk less, comment more, please.
Started looking for progressive blog sites in the early spring after GW started his second term and was looking to spend that political capital he had earned with the overwhelming Mandate the people gave him in November, if you get my drift. I found kos right away. It provides a lot of information, and I still go there, but not nearly as much as Booman now.
I started drifting to Booman around the time of Cindy Sheehan and have spent more and more time here, rather than at kos. I also check out My Left Wing quite regularly.
I have enjoyed getting to know some of the main contributors here like Susan Hu, the BooMan himself, Boston Joe, and several others. The quality of their work provides a good overview of what has been happening that is important to the life of the nation. Booman is now my primary source for national news.
I appreciate the encouragement I get from others, when one of my comments seems particularly appropriate to a conversation regarding a diary.
I appreciate the concern many regulars here, show for others.
It is a somewhat smaller pond, and I feel less intimidated here. Some of my comments actually get read!
I missed the pie wars at kos, and really don’t understand the references, but I hope the rift that has been going on here for the last couple of days is not the start of something much larger.
We need to be able to disagree with one another, without insulting one another. We need to feel free to say what is truly on our minds, or what is the use for coming here? We need to keep BooMan’s “don’t be a prick” rule in mind, and remember where we choose to draw our line in the sand, may be different than where you do.
To those a bit timid as far as joining the fray, I would encourage them to “come on in, the water is fine”.
Since I never officially welcomed you. . .welcome to the Pond!
I have enjoyed reading your comments around the site and we are glad to add another thoughtful participant to the family roster.
Nothing has happened here that can’t and won’t be taken care of by a very large contengent of caring tribbers who are intent on keeping this the best place on the blogosphere to be. So rest your concerns.
Glad to have you “in the swim” of things.
Shirl
I’m a real newcomer to Booman — just signed up yesterday. I’ve been checking it out for some time, though, as some of my favourite posters from DKos seem to turn up here.
Getting disillusioned with the tone at Kos, and also finding the sheer volume of the site difficult to hook into, I’ve wandered over to My Left Wing, and here, and liked what I’ve seen.
As I said on another diary today, I read yesterday’s “dust-up”, and was extremely impressed by how determined everyone seemed to stay engaged, find a way to respect each other despite differences, stay a community.
You all seem like my kind of folks, and this seems like my kind of place. Think I’ll stick around.
And happy Thanksgiving to all the other Canadians out there.
So glad you dropped by and then decided to stay. Maybe sometime you will drop into the Froggy Bottom Cafe (unless you already have today and I missed it!) and tell us about that interesting name of yours. The Cafe is a wonderful place to put your feet up, let your hair down, and do any number of things with other prepositions. Plus get to know people.
Wow, my internet goes out for a couple of days and look what happens…
Actually, the biggest reason I came here is the same reason I stay – the sense of community here.
Apparently there was some kind of dust-up, and instead of everyone responding with a flame war and a “don’t let the door hit your ass on the way out” there was a sense of concern for each other as members of the community and an outpouring of requests for the folks involved to stay, but even more importantly, to do whatever they needed as people for their own and their family’s situations. My friends, while we may not all agree on every issue, and we may get our noses out of joint from time to time, that kind of response isn’t what you get from a political news site, or a party strategy site. That is the kind of response you get from a community (albeit a cyber community, but we’re working on that…). We look after each other, encourage each other, sometimes even send search parties out for each other. We not only talk politics, we talk about books, movies, music, art. We celebrate each other’s creativity and each other’s achievements.
Are we perfect? Of course not. We have our pet issues, our blind spots, our old wounds that sometimes we inadvertently tear open on each other, resulting in howls of rage and pain on feminism, gay issues, what it means to be a patriotic American, religion – what it means to be human, and humane.
So we work through it all together, educating each other, encouraging each other, enjoying each other’s wit and insight and hard-won wisdom.
We are a virtual town, representing all walks of life, ages, and life situations. We are healthy, we are ill.
And I am grateful and proud to be one of you. Thank you Boo and Susan for being the supportive gracious hosts that you are. The time, energy, and caring that you devote to this community is immense. I hope that we all offer you something in return and that we all live up to the “first commandment” – “Don’t be a prick.”
I came here because Booman is a Yankees and Giants fan ;o)
I came here yesterday because I felt I had been invited. The invitation piqued my curiosity when I saw the Photofair. It was after being very warmly welcomed that I figured I had come to the right address. With the most warm hospitality & even a personal note from a lovely lady last night, I was sure I had found the right place. This morning I revisited this place & figured because it`s Thanksgiving somewhere, the fighting was normal, or I had accessed the wrong place. I took a chance & went to visit people at the Photofair & realized it must have been an argument that was none of my business. So I stayed. Tonight I see the argument persists but hope that it will be over by THANKSGIVING. I believe I`ll be staying around, but if you don`t settle it by the last Thursday in Nov. I`m outta here.
A beautiful mind is a wonderful thing to taste. Goodnight all & Please keep it mellow.
PS Thanks to everyone, for the nice comments on my diary in Photofair & I expect BOOMAN`S tank to be up & running soon.
-posted for knucklehead, who couldn’t post this himself