Are “religion” and “spirituality” one in the same thing? To many, they are.
For me they are not.
For me to find my way to any sort of spirituality in my life I had to leave religion behind me altogether.
I define “religion” as formal, identifiable organizations of people who share the same belief system. These belief systems, or organizations, are designed by groups of people, most often men, based on their interpretation of historical information and descriptions of their chosen deity. In this country, Christianity is the most common identified religion but by no means the only religious organization.
Christians and Jews and Moslems and people of all “religions” may be, and often are, deeply spiritual people who lead lives according to the tenants of their particular religion, or set of organized and accepted beliefs.
Many, many people, of which I am one, lead deeply spiritual lives as well, completely outside the realm of organized religion. I am trying on the phrase `Secular Spirituality” in this particular piece, to better identify these differences for myself.
I define spirituality as whatever set of internal values and principles we choose as the foundation of how we live our lives. It is the core of things, where we turn for strength, guidance, comfort. It is whatever combination of beliefs we each accumulate along our way that work for us as individuals.
For many, this includes a belief in some form of deity, or higher power. For many it doesn’t. For me, it means a simple, deep belief in the existence of some kind of constant flow of immensely powerful goodness. It’s everywhere at once, within almost everyone, and within me as well. I can choose to step fully into this flow from wherever I am, and become a part of it, and I can choose to step out of it. For me, life is much better, when I choose to be a conscious part of it.
The exact details of my beliefs, or yours, matter not. The fact that I have this foundation of spirituality now, is what matters.
I had to eventually leave organized “religion” behind me completely before I could even begin the search for my own genuine spiritual foundations. . Not only did I need to leave it, I had to spend years recovering from it’s damaging effects.
What I know now, is that true spirituality empowers and expands. It feeds and nurtures my faith in goodness and hope and endless possibility. Because I am so well fed now, I have more compassion to offer others; more ability to accept and cherish others, more energy for walking my talk.
The harsh judgements, the fear of burning in hell, the existence of a Vengeful God, the terrible awareness of how sinful and unclean I was, the entire shame of me, all of this was deeply and indelibly imprinted on the clean slate of my little-girl-soul before I even started school, by the harsh tenants of the Christian Religion I was offered. During the very time a child’s sense of who she is being formed, it informed me of the terrible sinfulness of my being, and laid out for me the lifetime of penance I could expect, as a woman.
These were all lies. I know this now. Lies that were implanted so deeply that the effects on me as an seriously depressed adult very nearly cost me my life, by my own hand, with the help of end stage alcoholism. (Drinking was the only way I could stand to live with the sinful creature I really was, inside. It gave me my only respite: the wondrous restfulness of oblivion.)
This cost me years and years of my life. A life that I could have lived fully, rather than just barely surviving it.
This was all given to me in the name of the Christian God of Mercy, by the Men Of God of my time.
I am here only because I finally rejected that God and that religion after the age of 40.
Separating myself from it to the degree I have now took many years and immensely hard work. It required intense, long term self de-programming of the horrendous self identification bequeathed to me by this religion, and more years of re-programing, as I slowly uncovered the shattered pieces of my true personality and identity, and gradually knit them back together.
As this slowly progressed, and I was finally able to sustain sobriety, I began to explore non religion based spiritual pathways. There were very few I missed along the way. None of them were to end up my “home”, but from each, I gathered the bits and pieces that resonated on very deep levels, and I knew that they were to be mine.
Over the years since, it is these bits and pieces of wisdom and truth, that have become the tapestry of my spiritual belief system. It is what I can rest upon always. It is what I can wrap around me when cold winds blow. It is the foundation under me that never trembles. . It expands and empowers and guides me, just as it is. It is my own precious collection of truths and beliefs and values that need no validation from anyone else. It does not require me to write them down as commandments or to preach them to anyone else. It does not require me to pray in certain words “to” anyone or anything higher or bigger or better than me. It allows me to feel and know degrees of oneness with others, and with my imperfect world. It is not a separate compartment in my life, it IS my life.
There will always be a part of me that will wonder who I would have become, what my life may have been like, had I know my own true worth form childhood on. There will always a measure of regret for the years this kind of religion robbed from my life, and the suffering this caused and that I passed along in so many ways, to my own little girls and those who loved me as best I could allow. . I will always need to be vigilant about excessive self blame and the shame flashbacks that still come at me from the shadows now and then. These are the just legacies left , from my days spent striving to be a “good Christian woman”.
However, those shadows are well taken care of now, via the brighter light I’ve found in defining my own secular spirituality. ( a phrase that even rejected the capital letters I tried to give it just now!)
I can finally enter a Christian church again, to attend the special church occasions of my family, but still not with ease or comfort. I sit near the door, and sweat through the scripture portion of things, even as I rejoice in the open and affirming nature of the Christian faith they have embraced.
I wonder if there will ever be a space on those forms that ask for your “religious affiliation,” for people like me? Or will my choices continue to be restricted to naming a “religion” , or writing `none”, knowing how society still interprets that to mean having no faith at all.
Probably not in my lifetime.
It really doesn’t matter.
secular spirituality works for me.
(Crossposted from Ourword.org and VillageBlue.net)
My story is very similar to yours except for the fact that I’ve embraced Buddhism the last few years because that’s what works for me.
One thing I realized about “what went wrong” with my religious upbringing was that I was never taught to live the principles. I was taught dogma, rituals and words. My family atmosphere was no shining example of how to live a Christian life so I was taught hypocrisy in the name of religion. I rejected that very early in life and wandered for a very long time.
Religion and spirituality mean nothing if the principles are not lived. I also respect atheism (I do not believe in God anymore) because I know that religion does not corner the market as the originator of values.
No matter what you believe, it all comes down to how you live your life and whether that is beneficial to yourself and other people.
Some folks, just by their very nature, are just plain good people who don’t give much of a thought to either religion or spirituality. It does seems
come down to walking the walk, not just talking the talk, regardless of the source of one’s principles.
and I fully believe that whether there are pearly gates and a “Saint” sitting their with a sheet of paper to judge us, or whether living by making the right choices in our actions as we live amongst an environment that involves many choices every day, there is an inner peace that comes with making the right choices. I try to make those right choices, right by my employer, right by my family, right by my neighbors, and right by the least among us … but I don’t do it to guarantee me a place in “heaven”, I do it because it is the right thing to do, and it makes me feel good doing it. Could I do more? Absolutely! But I’m okay with that too.
So much damage has been done in the name of organized religion — I am confident I don’t have to provide examples. It warms my heart to know that both you, catnip, and scribe are more comfortable now, having had others use religion in a debased way. When I hear of examples of others’ struggles, I am thankful of my own parents not messing with me and also reflective on the David Koresh’s and Jim Jones’ and the Los Angeles Archdiocese moving Catholic priests around (oh wait, I wasn’t going to get into examples!)
I have found my own peace in a United Methodist Church. If I were to ever leave it (unlikely), the United Church of Christ would probably be my next stop. The current Methodist Church my wife and I attend has as its Senior Pastor Rev. Faith Whitmore, one of the most wonderful people I have ever met, a dynamic woman who has an open heart and an open mind to everyone that she comes in contact with, and who was just honored by winning this year’s Sacramento Building Unity Award, for her work in uniting interfaith groups within our community.
For an example, I borrow heavily from an article in the Sacramento News and Review:
Thank you to the News and Review, a great alternative weekly which I hope doesn’t mind my liberal citations. Go read the article, and you’ll be rewarded by a wonderful picture of a beautiful woman, whose outer beauty is only exceeded by her inner.
When such persons as Rev. Whitmore, or Rev. Jim Wallis, or Dr. Martin Luther King can do so much for us, to show us such positive examples of how we can make a difference, it absolutely kills me that our corporate media fails us so strongly by quoting Pat Robertson and James Dobson seemingly every day. When I see Pat Robertson walking the walk, apologizing for statements that he knows his followers are sitting on the edge of their chairs listening to, calling for people to DIE rather than change HIS perceived errors … yes, when I see him actually working a soup line, or building houses instead of diamond mines by using the labor of others for his own personal gain … then and only then will his opinion start to matter to me. Just another failure on the part of our media, which always takes the easy way out, the easy soundbite, the already pre-written talking points.
(gets off soapbox, looks around, apologizes for diary hijacking)
I am glad you are doing well, scribe — I wish you continued successes on our journey through life. Organized religion can take many forms, I have found a form that works for me, and I know you were not in any way making a judgement about those that choose a different path. We all have so many challenges to deal with on a seemingly daily basis — the least we can do is leave our spiritual decisions to our own. The Religious Reicht wackos that have hijacked our government are very far removed from our “Founding Fathers” they are so fond of selectively quoting. They certainly would be very disappointed to learn of their mostly secular lives, and certainly their overwhelming desire to prevent what has happened to our government — as exemplified by the use of a religious test to justify an unqualified person to sit on the Supreme Court.
No, I make no judgements about anyone who embraces organised religion as thier spiritual choice. I know my own harsh experiences were due to how religion was USED to harm others. I DO make real fast judgements toward any “religious” person, who makes the mistake of tying to “save my soul” by pressuring me to join thier faith. They don’t knock on my door twice! 🙂
Those that try to “save a soul” by going down “their path”. I don’t let it bother me too much, my wife laughs and I go about my day. It is not something I feel the need to do, but they aren’t threatening to me and I just make it clear that I have found a home, and I hope them the same peace.
I had a roommate once that, when bored and let’s say enjoying his version of Miller Time, would invite in the “soul savers” and ask them to have a seat. Before they could start their sales pitch (which I really think that it is, even if they are most sincere in believing that their product = eternal life), my friend would ask to start first. He is Jewish, and proceeded to list off several of his relatives who had passed, and would ask them if — because they did not allow Jesus into their lives — they would not be in the Kingdom of Heaven, waiting for my friend if he accepted what the “soul savers” were “selling”.
When they said “yes, what you say is true”, my friend would stand up and say “Well, I don’t want to go to that Heaven, which does not include my beloved relatives!” He never received a response (at least that I ever saw) other than mumbling about a different way, and a quick handoff of the propaganda, err pamphlets.
Like I said, aren’t they a kick in the pants?
Thats a great way to handle it. One of my own tactics is to suddenly point over their heads mumbling..”The..bugs! The bugs!” then, then “picking them” out of the air, one by one. I usually only get two before they’re on their way..:)
Good morning!
When I was a mere pre-schooler, and the door knockers would come around with their pamphlets, my older siblings delighted in telling me that I had a visitor. So there I’d stand, having no clue how to respond to these strange folks in their black suits, while my siblings laughed uncontrollably in the background. And as long as the visitors had somebody to preach to, they didn’t seem to mind that I was merely 4 – they were going to send me forth to convert my family. Sadly, I fell for that one every time – but at least my mother finally scripted a response for me. (Sometimes it sucked being the baby of the family ;^)
I’ve actually had some great conversations with door-to-door Mormons. However, during one of those discussions, I mentioned that a close friend of mine fell in love with a Mormon woman and subsequently converted to her faith. Funny thing – both of my visitors simultaneously combusted into laughter, indicating that my friend had “fallen for” the “flirt and convert” technique. I found it highly offensive that the visitors turned the whole thing into a mockery, because my friend and his wife have one of the strongest marriages I know of. (On the other hand, I realized my visitors were merely 19 years old, so I cut them some slack and shared a little kind advice on how not to offend their audience)
Good day to all, and thanks for yet another fine diary, scribe! (And thank you very much to the poster who provided the link to “Autonomous Women” – great read!)
Catnip, I am getting more and more interested in Buddhism too. I’d love to see you post about this (or maybe you did and I missed it?)
That’s a tall order. 🙂
A while ago Diane asked me if I’d post something about it at Village Blue. I may do that. I’ll let you know.
One of the many good books I’ve read so far about the history of Buddhism is Buddha by Karen Armstrong. I see some reviewers on Amazon have given it mixed reviews, but it was very helpful to me when I first started learning about Buddhism.
Just to but in with a recommendation.
There’s a terrific book written by the Buddhist teacher Chögyam Trungpa called “Cutting Through Spiritual Materialism”.
While the book itself is written within the context of Buddhist teaching, (A series of talks given by Trungpa Rinpoche in the 1970s), it actually transcends Buddhist-specific teachings and addresses the broader concept of spirituality and the spiritual path, much like “scribes” diary here seeks to address the same thing, going beyond the trappings of particular religious orthodoxies.
I’ve found Trungpa’s writings in this book quite beneficial in my own life, and I heartily recommend it to anyone. Also, it’s not complicated or too involved with religious or philosophical esoterica; it’s quite down to earth.
From the books introduction;
That sounds like a pretty good description of the most extreme and aggressive evangelical wingnuts, though Trungpa’s point is more subtle than that.
And there’s this, also from the intro.
In may ways, I think the more developed a religious organization becomes, the greater the chance that spiritual materialism becomes enshrined in the day to day experience of that religion’s adherents. Obviously this isn’t true for all followers of all religions, but it strikes me that because religiousorganizations are authoritarian by nature, that this structure is especially susceptible to the kinds of temptation that result in spiritual materialism as a product of the desire for power and acceptance within the religious hierarchy, and that this is anathema to true spirituality.
I think scribe’s diary speaks eloquently to this point.
I’ve put forward the idea several times over the last year that there’s not a single meaningful human value that requires a religious context in order to legitimize it.
Religion may serve as a guide by which to become acquainted with human or life principles, but it is those principles themselves that are the embodiment of those values. And it is the principles and values themselves that empower the religions that choose to embrace them, not the religions empowering the values.
This is what the overly aggressive religious extremists always fail to understand; they always have the “cause and effect” of it exactly backwards. It’s not their religious affiliation that legitimizes their beliefs, it’s the principles their religion embraces that determines the legitimacy and value and efficacy of their religious doctrine.
nail.meet.hammer.
Very nicely put — and, for me, it works perfectly both ways. See, I cannot stand the hypocrisy of the mega churches built amongst the McMansions, and the abuse of the very Book they proclaim to trust as the unerring word of God, never to be varied from. Never mind that pesky stuff about taking care of the least amongst us, or even eating shellfish — just selectively quote the parts that are useful, and build all the false idols and million dollar tributes as true Jesusumers. All the while, we have homeless and hungry and it’s somehow okay to kill innocent Muslims. So, your words work for me as failing to legitimize such false religions and more specifically churches, because they are not guided by “human or life principles” — the cynical side of me would say they are trying to buy their way into Heaven, and cannot stand up to the pressure of crowd mentality.
But where your words also allow me to thrive, is that you don’t judge me as I strive to live by my actions, and just happen to gather at a brick building on (most) Sunday mornings. For it was taught to me early during membership classes, that for us, the “church” is not the building, but the people who like me also enjoy getting together as we find commonality in our “principles and values”.
Those big-box, WalMart style churches are pretty embarrassing, to say the least. they seem to erepresent the antithesis of the very gospel their preachers and congregants purport to worship and revere.
From the self-indulgent opulence, the cheezy, spectacular staging, and the overall show-biz stylings suggest the crassest form of hucksterism and self absorbed “spiritual materialism”, coupled with the dangerous pride and megalomania often asociated by those who command such big business enterprises.
I feel sorry for the congregants getting bamboozled in these places, learning that it’s ok to be selfish, learning that it’s their right to judge others, and learning that they have the duty to impose their will on others; and learning this crapfrom power-hungry charlatans without a spiritual bone in their bodies.
I understand how these messages work, but they are destructive, and they fly in the face of every truly spiritual teaching there is. Nothing good will come of this false spirituality, only more intolerance, less compassion, more poverty and more division between people instead of more unity and cooperation and mutual respect.
In a certain way, if there was such a thing as an anti-christ, I think these palaces of worship might be the incubators where such a one might gestate.
The left really does not understand them at all. It’d take me at a good sized diary to explain what I see in them, but since I flunked out of the economy and now work with my hands for a living, someone else is going to have to do it because I don’t have the time for that kind of writing.
These churches work spectacularly. They’re successful as organizations, they’re successful as a movement, and they represent a very adaptive strategy for their membership.
In terms of selfishness, they’re exactly as unselfish and supportive as the hippie world was–within their own communities. Walk into one of these places and you’re home for life, it’s heaven on earth–as long as you’re not a skeptical kind of person. It’s these churches’ relations with the outside world that appears selfish, and that of course is a whole ‘nother ball of wax.
I think this is a finely tuned corporate movement with a very, very tiny number of leaders behind it, because I see the same patterns everywhere I go. But I’m creeped up about it enough that I won’t to into detail about that even anonymously online.
Of course these churches work spectacularly. They’re like well-oiled cult enterprises, promising salvation, helping people to justify their own reluctance to help others less fortunate by elevating prosperity as one of God’s rewards, implying that members have a sort of spiritual supremacy, legitimizing judgmentalism and conveying the idea that one’s unselfish acts need only extend to those who are in agreement with their own particular theological slant. And of course, they are money machines
If this isn’t hypocrisy and false spirituality enshrined, I don’t know what is.
I feel the same – why do I need to provide anyone with a label to put on me. It’s only so they can use their prejudices to define me. Is my religion anybody’s business at all? My answer would be ‘why?’, when asked my race I answer ‘other’ and write in Human.
Ram Dass has written some interesting stuff about religion in our materialistic culture focusing on the ego rather than the soul.
Thanks for this diary, I’ve been thinking about the fact of no really defining label for people like us, and how we divide ourselves into these petty categories.
I am very troubled by our society insisting on labels and debates about “my religion is better than your religion”, which leaves very little to secularists, humanists, athiests, or agnostics. It absolutely is none of anyone’s business, and the question should never appear on a “form”.
I can’t imagine the pressure on a teenager, and even though very divisive, I understand why Michael Neudow wants to remove “under God” from the Pledge of Allegiance. I don’t think our children should have to make any such pledges, and I only recently learned of the history of the Pledge, and how the “indivisible” part reflected the feelings after the Civil War, and how the “under God” part was added by the religious fervor of the 1950’s — and best of all, how the pledge was written by a Socialist!
a fact that I really enjoy revealing to sanctimoneous people who start ranting at me about Newdow or the ACLU. The blood ALWAYS drains from their face.
Your words brought up so much of my life, that I have trouble putting words to my thoughts. Having been raised with the same kind of wounds to my spirit and identity and having to battle back for a sense of self, I too have “triggers” that set me off emotionally. And because christianity, or at least a monotheistic top-down religion, is the assumed belief system in so many contexts in which we live, I often find that I need to struggle in silence at times or risk being totally misunderstood. I have found a peace for myself in all of this and so want to be able to see others find that. But I know that mostly its not mine to “give” but others to seek and find.
I hear you and I know I am pretty sick of stuggling in silence. I regard my belief system as of absolute equal worth to that of any established religion, and I’m ready to say so publically. (I just needed to call it something in odrer to write this.) I also note that liberals of the Christian religion are quite welcome on the major liberal blogs now so I figure if theres room for them, there’s room in the inn for the rest of us too.
spirituality is pure truth and growth. It all comes from within.
Just finished reading God Without Religion- a historical account of how we all got so fucked up with man made religious LIES and how we mostly live in fear and so stick with a GROUP mentality whether one believes it all or not.
Getting rid of fear is a BIG first step to any growth.
I enjoyed reading your diary and I think I can relate.
People often say something to the extent of “religion can be a good thing because it is comforting for people it helps them along”.
Well, what about the converse?
For me, not believing in a religion is a healthy thing. It allows me to have a sense of clarity, and doesn’t bind me to any convictions which could potentially be harmful to my mental welfare… to any ideas which dwelt upon may impair my ability to interpret experiences in a grounded way.
Perhaps slightly off topic but I’d like to recommend the book, “Freethinkers: a History of American Secularism” by Susan Jacoby.
If you want to more about the book or author, here’s a good interview.
I need to break away for awhile and tend to company, but hope to be back soon to read more. It feels so good to have others to discuss this with openly.
I guess I was one of the lucky ones regarding organized religion. Born into a very church going Protestant Family, my Father established when my sis and I were very young that we were not to be forced into religion, we could attend church or not as we chose and he fully expected us to decide for ourselves when we reached adulthood what path we would follow as to religion.
I did not follow the path of organized religion and therefore bear no scars in that regard.
Father, was not without his own prejudices, and he really gave me little in the way of a father’s love,( I only lived with him for 6 years) but I feel grateful now for that one thing he did give me, freedom to choose.
I think it was very empowering to my sister and I as we grew up, to be freed from the organized religious constraints. Not to say we were without scaring, in other areas physcholgical, because we were..and the fear of not being worthy in the eyes of ‘God’ stuck with me for years.
For my own children I gave no instructions as to religion, not intentionally but that’s the way it went and I now have 5 children who are pretty much agnostic, while I believe simply in “All that Is”.
I was raised to be a baptist (general). My mother, God rest her soul, was dogmatic in her raising of me in this church.
As I developed into my own entity, thinking for myself and developing into what I am today, I realized I had only one thing I wanted to guide my life….that is to treat others as I would want to be treated. This took in many aspects of living from charity to family raising, etc.
I am a gullible person, for the most part. I do more trusting that I should. ;o(/;o) I want to believe there is good in everyone….This has changed over time with maturing and growing into adulthood. It took me years of working on this behavior pattern to develop into who I am today. I try to follow the Christian teachings of my childhood church, but develop my own mind in which I think things thru. I do not come to the same conclusion that my elders did.
I believe in a greater power then I am. I just take it to the most degree of thinking as to why I do and say what I do and say. I understand your thoughts extremely and follow some of what you do. I think we all have to live by what we are comfortable in living by and do the best we can do in live our lives.
We all have issues to deal with. I do know I surely do!!!!!!!!!!!! I do not pray to God to give to me things….all I ask is just one more day of living to do what I have to do, to live. If that should fail, what ever is in store for me I will have no choice in but to accept (this meaning death).
I just try to deal with the world as if I would want to be treated. When that fails to be, then I have to ask why. I try hard to better things in my own world of which I live. LIke you all here, it has been a very hard path to follow, at times. I have gone thru so many troubled and hard times, I often look back and ask myself why I had to endure such things, but I did and try to see it for the growth I concurred during this time to make me a stronger minded/hearted person in which I can think clearly and properly on matters.
I was born with a mind to think with and I will always do such with it. If this is or is not religion, I do not know. I just go by the good I want to find in many and work towards eliminating the bad of things. For the most part, I find when I give, I do get back…I sometimes question what I get back but have to question at times the how and that is just who I am….:o)
I live and that is just it…I do not take things as a grantee. As you all, I have my own philosophy and I try hard to live by that philosophy.
Thank you for your thoughts this morning. I find you and everyone here very thoughtful and enlightening ppl. This is why I stay. :o) Hugs to each of you.
I am an ethically limited “Golden Rule-r.” And that stems strictly from self-interest, not in any way due to interest in the metaphysical realm.
Stretching my ethos I’m also an “It’s okay if it’s no skin off my ass-er,” as in political correctness. It’s no skin off my ass to use terms like “Native American,” “black,” or “African American,” “gay,” or “(fill in the blank)-abled.”
Me? Simply a rational secular humanist. Period.
That’s similar to how I’ve organized myself in this department. I’m not religious and I’ve never been able to swallow the idea of an anthropomorphized diety of any sort (even though I love some of the wilder stories!).
As I recently said to a friend, “The older I get the more intensely focused I am on extracting as much joy from life as possible while not becoming an asshole.” Of course, it gets very complex sometimes when I have to break the terms down in various contexts, but that’s pretty much my ethical belief system in a nutshell.
since both our life philosophies rule out ass-hole and since ass-hole has nothing to do with enjoyment out of life, no?
how many of the world’s religions have some sort of “Do unto others …” value taught early and often.
A pure humanist might say that it would have helped our species survive to look out for one another, hence the basic tenet being so universal.
I don’t get too philosophical on the issue — it just makes sense and works for me.
Like the noses on our faces.
I’ll take Booman’s rule “don’t be a prick” as the best advice for me as to how to treat others.
Sometimes I am amazed that I have any core religious/non-religious values at all considering how many different organized religions I was exposed to, no, forced to be exposed to as a child. Now that I think of it I can understand my own Mother’s inability to call any one religion home. Though I think she is caught up in a useless and self serving hunt for nothches to apply to her belt, of which I am one ;o) If I were to attempt to describe her current affiliation, I would say she is a mixture of Quaker, Seminole healer (she is Irish and Italian),Survivalist, gun toting Passifist. Confused yet? Shit! Me too!
I have been indoctrinated along the way into Catholisism, Southern Baptist, Methodist, Jehovah’s Witnesses, and most interesting of all, Seventh Day Adventists! She endeavoured, and as you can see, succeeded in exposing me to many different realities. The result of all this exposure for me has been that I am an Athiest. Straight up. No ambivalence. I can read the Bible with great interest and conclude that is a well written history of a great man, Jesus, who’s teachings are a decent blueprint for how to live one’s life and how to treat your fellow humans, but when they start talking about eternal damnation for living a sinful life, I turn away.
When my life comes to an end and the last electrical impulses of my dying brain flicker across the inside of my eyes, I will be content to know that I did the best I could to “not be a prick” and as humans that is, I believe, the best any of us can do.
Thank you scribe for your compelling story. We are all better for having found you here.
Thank you, super. (BTW, it’s a good thing you don’t have any aspirations toward “prickhood”, because you, my friend, would never make it. You are a strong, good and gentle man, and I am richer for meeting you, too.
the problem w/ isms, of being born into a faith, is that they usually PRECLUDE actual spiritual exploration.
I rejected the rigid creeds at a pretty young age, having read the Bible and many other religious texts, finding only contradictions both in what they said and how people interpretted them. I especially had a hard time reconcilling Martin Luther’s insistance that any man could read and understand the scriptures w/ the rigid boundaries that the conservative Protestant ministers I was exposed to kept insisting on. What I was reading didn’t match in any way what they SAID I was reading.
Doing your own work to decide how to reconcile the universe around you with a personal moral code and the fear of realizing you’re alone in this endeavor is scary, and most people don’t want to do it. Easier just to pull a ready made religious “suit” off the rack, maybe tack up the hems a little, and put it on, no matter how uneasy it hangs on your body.
I settled on just accepting that I had no fucking idea of the “why”, or the “what comes after”. I suppose I have some vague animist-like idea that life is an energy or spirit that exists just to keep on existing, like water finding it’s level or electricity finding it’s ground, but I’m not interested in some hairy thunderer or cosmic muffin. It’s enough to have been given an admission ticket to this really cool sinister carnival.
I’ve found up until now that alcohol is a way to quiet the greek chorus of disgust that echoes around in my skull, but I’m afraid that my body is getting too old to let me use it’s magic powers anymore w/o it messing me up. Haven’t decided to give it up yet, but stories like yours are a helpful encouragement.
Cosmic Muffin would be an awesome name for a band. They could call their lead guitar player Hairy Thunderer, and their first album could be called Flying Spaghetti Monster. Then we could say things like, “Dude, Hairy Thunderer totally sweated on me from the first row of the Cosmic Muffin Flying Spaghetti Monster Tour.”
Confession corner: When asked about my religion, I sometimes tell total strangers I am a Spinozist pantheist just to watch them get all confused trying to figure out what that means. 🙂
love that “Spinozist pantheist”.
Very cool.
Cosmic Muffin would, of course, need Bob to be their manager/spirtual advisor.
Sadly, I think that the band would break up once when their drummer Loki fuck’s Hairy Thunderer’s mom Mary, which I guess would make Mary Cosmic Muffin’s Yoko Ono.
But as humans, our thinking sometimes is faulty and may even be confused with an emotion, our wanting, that can lead us to ask the wrong questions. Such as “why?”
Fearless reason (I acknowledge is a very scary thing to a number of the religious, but need not be.) leads one to understand — and even find beautiful — that there is no “why.” There simply “is.”
I’m with you, but I love the pretty words that come w/ “why”. “Is” can often be boiled down to a set of elegant equations, but series of imaginary numbers in infinite multidimensional spaces make my head hurt.
I like my reason w/ some cool poetry slathered across the top.
a pyhsicist will call you in the morning.
Pray that it is a reincarnation of Richard P. Feynman.
Maybe you mean something different by “fearless reason” than I do, but I have never found all of the answers I need through intellect alone. And its certainly not through emotion alone.
But the two together can lead to the intuitive knowing that is where my spirituality lies.
Since I don’t know how you interpret the phrase, I can’t clarify for you how I do. We may both understand it precisely the same but our personal needs may differ.
For me “fearless reason” is enough. For you, more is required in your diet. Could that be because you have a spiritual requirement and I simply do not?
“Reason” is only scary when you’re more afraid of “knowing” the truth than of “not knowing” it.
You are right Madman to recognize how scary it is to do your own work to develop a personal moral code. And it is especially courageous for someone like Scribe who was indoctrinated from day one with not only dogma, but degredation and fear. I wrote more about my experience with this in a diary titled Revelation Must be Terrible. Its important to support folks who are in the midst of this kind of journey.
thanks for that link. Great diary. Love that poem, first time I’ve seen it.
The words of the poet, David Whyte, have been a major force in my spiritual development for the past few years. I highly recommend him to all who are searching.
THANKS for pointing me to your excellent diary, I don’t think I was here yet when you posted it, and I would have missed it. The courage it took you to begin all over is awesome, and your voice is so powerful.
Madman, I was well into my 51st year when I decided I didn’t need alcohol any more. For me, it was the greatest pain killer ever invented, both for physical pains and the much more devistating pains of the heart. One day, after several years of deep inner self discovery, I just understood that for me, alcohol was not adding anything purposeful or uplifting to my life.
Introspection and understanding who I was allowed me to see that killing the pain was the least effective thing I was doing. . .healing the causes of the pain was the only thing that made sense to me. Until that moment of clarity, I had no motivation or thought that I should quit using alcohol. You will choose to do what you wish in that concern in whatever way you see that it suits your life. And although the thought of giving up that friendly crutch scared me plenty. . .the actual giving it up was the easiest thing I ever did. Just my experience and not suggesting that it will or should be others experience.
I don’t know how anyone can totally obliterate that greek chorus these days, even with alcohol, because one simply cannot stay pickled 24/7. And yeah..no matter how beloved and faithful a pal booze can be, it can also turn into the sneakiest, most destructive bastard on the planet. It also tended to, (for me anyway,) block out all the other sweeter music , leaving me with ONLY my damned greek chorus to listen to. I can still hear it’s echos sometimes, but I sure do like the new selections on the ol jukebox. 🙂
There is always some version of the “Greek Chorus” mentioned abnove rattling through our psyches. It’s part of the constant state of becoming.
America has evolved into – a mutual understanding that we are all different, but all in the same boat. The only label that I am willing to accept or put on myself is ‘American’ and even that’s beginning to feel a bit uncomfortable in some circumstances.
I think that our country is all about us learning to live together in peace, each with our own personal version of God and sexual or food or musical preferences; and that we’re getting closer to it. That could be my religion.
Hope you don’t mind.
What a shocking honor. I don’t think I’ve ever been quoted before. Surely somebody famous has said it better. You are a very kind lady Janet.
Perhaps many of us who find ourselves coming to this place have had similiar experiences of being indoctrinated, having questions that couldn’t be answered, doubts that became rejection. Then a personal search.
I expect it often seems to happen from the intellect at first, although the doubts of the heart must be there. Eventually the beliefs you come to must speak to your heart.
I found earth-centered beliefs very powerful, and as an American-born I found great connection to beliefs that sprang from my soil, as codified by Native American peoples. I had always been attracted to the kinds of spiritual practices and ideas I found in forms of Buddhism. Zen appeals to my sense of humor. Tibetan Buddhism to the relationship of mind to heart and the rest of reality.
Others I know have found their needs for community met by the local Quaker Meeting, where community is alive and the members have a wide variety of religious backgrounds, not restricted to Christianity.
Finally, I found great direction in several streams of inquiry following from Carl Jung. Psychology and spirituality have a close relationship. I accept as a working hypothesis the notion that Thomas Moore, James Hillman and others profess that soul is the active synthesis of intellect and feelings, of spirit and body and heart. We have spirit within us, and we are physical bodies, and they are all connected. How we accomplish these connections in daily life, in relation to others and to ethical conduct, is our soul, the essence of who we are.
The Native American people were my first mentors along my own pathway. They gave me hope via their beautiful connection to the earth, and all that is. Jung was another powerful influence for me. There were so many who shared with me along the way, of so many carying pathways. In a way, this diary is a mark of my gratefullness to every one of them. There’s just no telling where we will find the next thing we need.
Very true! This is why we must always keep our eyes, ears and most important, our hearts open. If we aren’t open to receiving it, help may be banging on our door and we don’t even notice…
Thanks for writing this.
When I was growing up, religion was simply not discussed.
My family were atheists and we often were harshly critical of organized religion. Yet, when I was 11 or 12, all my friends belonged to one church or another and I became curious. I wanted desparately to “belong”, to be “normal”. So, I started attending services with my friends. I found Catholocism to be to staid and boring. I tried 7th Day Adventist, but that was just too weird. I ended up at a Baptist church where I was totally welcomed and made to feel part of the church. I went to the youth group, summer camp and joined the choir. It was fun, but when they atarted pressuring me to pray for salvation, and get baptised, I found that all that God and Jesus stuff really was not my cup of tea at all. One day, while singing in he choir, I became ill and threw up in front of the entire congregation. I took this as a sign and never returned!
I then started asking myself what religion was and meant to me. I decided that religion was a means to answer the unanswerable questions that all humans face on earth. Why are we here and what happens when we are here no more. So, I decided to come up with my own answers. By 13, I had created my own religion. Obviously, from this narative, spirituality was more important to me, than to my family. But, because I had been raised to question religion, I would likely never find a place in an organized religion. Yet, I had found the answers for me. I rejected the idea of deity(ies) and instead focused on what I called “Life Energy”. The religion I created for myself turned out to be a combination of Buddhism, Tantra, Shamanism, and Paganism.
I always balked at those forms where you had to check off a box or write in your religion. Once, as a teen, I was asked my religion in a Hospital and told them “Wagarism”, Wagar being my birth name. They looked at me like I had two heads. So, I spelled it out for them. :>)
Since all that, I have done extensive work with a variety of spiritual and magical systems from around the world and throughout time. I’ve even worked with fictional mythologies, like H.P. Lovecraft.
Raising my own daughter, I had to explore these feelings again. I wanted to give her a “title”, so she wouldn’t feel like the freak that I did, but I still don’t like organized religion. I also wanted to give her to tools and courage to explore spirituality if she desired, while also encouraging an absence of spirituality is she felt none. So, I chose Pagan. It’s such an open-ended religion and can pretty much mean whatever you what it to. It is earth based and places much on the interconnectedness of all life. She is now very proud to be Pagan and we have had many great conversations about life, the universe and everything. She, too, has already started to create her own belief system with her own words and fulfilling her own needs.
I think Secular Spirituality really sums up my own beliefs well. I have always had a spiritual need, but never a religious need. I can also completley understand those that have no such spiritual need. While I will never understand why some people need an Angry and Vengeful God, I can understand why some people crave the acceptance of a church.
Great post, Scribe.
I think most here know that I have similarly organized my own spirituality from the “truths” that feel best to me from all that is offered in the “out there.” What I have gathered together fits me perfectly and is a source of great comfort and joy in its limitless potentials for my perspective of life here.
This is indeed the essence of it. And my overly simplistic view of it all, is still: Whatever gets you through here and allows you to have joy and meaning in your life, is exactly what is best for you.
We all have more in common than we have differences.
Hugs all,
Shirl
Sing it, sistah!
Just got back online and scanned comments. Wow. Way too much good stuff from you all to grasp in a hurry, so I want to take my time and really soak it in. The best thing is that no one is putting down anyone else’s faith, or lack of a defined path. That’s walking the talk, in my book. More to come later…
= morals + a sense of humanity
The words ‘intelligent design’ are meaningless to me in the way they are bandied about in representing an anti-science worldview.
But it is clear that there are mathematical algorithms governing organic growth and that there are certain basic symmetries in evolution.
I have no idea where these symmetries stem from, and I am like an ant unaware of mobile networks or pizzas. But it does seem to me that there is some as-yet undiscovered ‘structure’ underpinning evolution.
But I can accept that I will never understand that. I am not forced into an ‘ant’ explanation of a cosmic mystery.
There seems to be some kind of ‘potential’ within DNA. There seems to be some kind of mutation which throws up variants, some of which may be better adapted to current conditions. But most of which are ‘rubbish’. And they die within a generation and are forgotten. And all this takes place over regenerative periods of a míllion years or more. That is a fantastic number of iterations, considering that individual cells are dividing all the time.
But I use the word potential because it means there it not a design or aim for an end result. There is nothing planned. There is simply potential. Enactment realises the potential.
Perhaps the journey is the destination. As we old hippies always proclaimed 😉
Yep, at 65, I am completely convinced. The journey IS the destination!
So let us journey on!
That’s all there is to it, really…
Sounds like a plan! Now I intend to journey toward some rest after a wonderful day spent here with you all, and some fun time spent with my 40-sometihg daughters,(who are so smart and so powerful they scare me sometimes 🙂
im sorry i haven’t commented on your pieces scribe. a few of us are down on due to some personal news. however, i would be down even more if it wasn’t for your words.
thanks,
Renee
Just focus on taking care of you and yours, Bay,and know that many caring thoughts and warms regards are winging your way..