Do we or don’t we? Torture, I mean.
It seems at the highest levels of our Government, there’s some confusion about what we do with our terrorist suspects. Or should I say, some confusing:
The U.S. government has placed what appear to be irreconcilable demands on its spies. The most recent evidence came last week, when President Bush denounced torture while Vice President Dick Cheney worked behind the scenes to defeat a measure in Congress that would prohibit the CIA from “cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment” of detainees.
The lack of clear guidance, particularly to CIA officers not accustomed to handling detainees, puts officers on the ground in an impossible position, in which they must guess what activities are allowable and hope for the best, former spies said.
Hmmm. Our beloved President says “We do not torture”, yet CIA officers and military personnel are unclear what that means in light of Vice President Cheney’s actions behind the scenes to defeat anti-torture legislation. Let’s see if we can clear up any ambiguity, shall we.
A top White House official on Sunday refused to unequivocally rule out the use of torture in a bid to prevent a terror attack, arguing the US administration was duty-bound to protect the American people.
The comment, by US National Security Adviser Stephen Hadley, came after US President George W Bush said during a trip to Panama earlier this month that Americans “do not torture”. It also came amid heated national debate about whether the CIA and other US intelligence agencies should be authorized to use what is being referred to as “enhanced interrogation techniques” to extract information from terror suspects that may help prevent future assaults. . . .
“The president has said that we are going to do whatever we do in accordance with the law,” the national security adviser said.
He insisted that it was “a difficult dilemma to know what to do in that circumstance to both discharge our responsibility to protect the American people from terrorist attack and follow the president’s guidance of staying within the confines of law.”
I see. We don’t torture, we merely use enhanced interrogation techniques that stay within the confines of the law while still fulfilling the President’s duty to protect the American people from terrorist attack. Techniques like water boarding, e.g.?
[John Yoo’s 2002 memo regarding the legality of torture] was drafted after White House meetings convened by George W. Bush’s chief counsel, Alberto Gonzales, along with Defense Department general counsel William Haynes and David Addington, Vice President Dick Cheney’s counsel, who discussed specific interrogation techniques, says a source familiar with the discussions. Among the methods they found acceptable: “water-boarding,” or dripping water into a wet cloth over a suspect’s face, which can feel like drowning; and threatening to bring in more-brutal interrogators from other nations.
Well, perhaps they’ve stopped using water boarding. Yet, after the litany of atrocities that have come out regarding the treatment of prisoners at Abu Ghraib,
Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., told reporters, “The American public needs to understand we’re talking about rape and murder here. we’re not just talking about giving people a humiliating experience.” He did not elaborate.
The judge said detainees’ lawyers had presented “deeply troubling” allegations of U.S. personnel violently shoving feeding tubes as thick as a finger through the men’s noses and into their stomachs without anesthesia or sedatives, with detainees vomiting blood as U.S. personnel mocked them.
Rumsfeld appeared to distance himself from the decision to force-feed detainees.
“I’m not a doctor and I’m not the kind of a person who would be in a position to approve or disapprove. It seems to me, looking at it from this distance, is that the responsible people are the combatant commanders. And the Army is the executive agent for detainees,” Rumsfeld said.
and in Afghanistan,
Mr. Habibullah was tortured to death on December 4, 2002 by several U.S. soldiers. They hit the chained man with so-called “peroneal strikes,” or severe blows to the side of the leg above the knee (incapacitates the leg by hitting the common peroneal nerve). . .
Dilawar, tortured to death on December 10 2002, was a 22-year-old Afghan taxi driver and farmer who weighed 122 pounds and was described by his interpreters as neither violent nor aggressive.
When beaten, he repeatedly cried “Allah!” The outcry appears to have amused U.S. military personnel, as the act of striking him in order to provoke a scream of “Allah!” eventually “became a kind of running joke,” according to one of the MP’s. “People kept showing up to give this detainee a common peroneal strike just to hear him scream out ‘Allah,’ ” he said. “It went on over a 24-hour period, and I would think that it was over 100 strikes.”
The Times reported that:
On the day of his death, Dilawar had been chained by the wrists to the top of his cell for much of the previous four days.
“A guard tried to force the young man to his knees. But his legs, which had been pummeled by guards for several days, could no longer bend. An interrogator told Mr. Dilawar that he could see a doctor after they finished with him. When he was finally sent back to his cell, though, the guards were instructed only to chain the prisoner back to the ceiling.
“Leave him up,” one of the guards quoted Specialist Claus as saying. Several hours passed before an emergency room doctor finally saw Mr. Dilawar. By then he was dead, his body beginning to stiffen.
It would be many months before Army investigators learned a final horrific detail: Most of the interrogators had believed Mr. Dilawar was an innocent man who simply drove his taxi past the American base at the wrong time.
it’s a little difficult to fully accept anything the President says at face value:
Q Mr. President, I wanted to return to the question of torture. What we’ve learned from these memos this week is that the Department of Justice lawyers and the Pentagon lawyers have essentially worked out a way that U.S. officials can torture detainees without running afoul of the law. So when you say that you want the U.S. to adhere to international and U.S. laws, that’s not very comforting. This is a moral question: Is torture ever justified?
THE PRESIDENT: Look, I’m going to say it one more time. If I — maybe — maybe I can be more clear. The instructions went out to our people to adhere to law. That ought to comfort you. We’re a nation of law. We adhere to laws. We have laws on the books. You might look at those laws, and that might provide comfort for you. And those were the instructions out of — from me to the government.
I suppose there’s a chance he may be telling the truth. There may be no specific authorization from President Bush to anyone in the United States government regarding the violation of US law. When Bush said “we don’t torture” perhaps he only meant himself and his own circle of cronies — er — friends and advisors. Or perhaps he meant that we don’t do it anymore because we’ve out sourced that function:
In the name of the “war on terrorism,” the Bush administration is condoning and even facilitating the torture of terrorist suspects.
While the activities take place behind a veil of deniability, some excellent reporting by the Washington Post has laid bare the facts. And they aren’t pretty.
Under a practice known as “extraordinary rendition,” the CIA is delivering terror suspects into the hands of foreign intelligence services without extradition proceedings. According to the Post, the authority to do this comes from a secret “finding” by the president.
Suspects have been sent to Syria, Morocco, Egypt and Jordan, countries whose abusive practices have been documented and condemned by the State Department’s annual human rights report. “We don’t kick the s– out of them. We send them to other countries so they can kick the s– out of them,” an unnamed official who had participated in the rendering of prisoners told the Post. Along with the prisoner, the CIA provides the foreign intelligence services a list of questions it wants answered.
Yes, our friends in the Middle East. Nice, secretive, oppressive authoritarian regimes all. I imagine in Bush’s brain (his real brain, not Mr. Rove) it’s not torture if someone else is doing it so you can keep your hands clean. I mean what’s a little water boarding or shin busting compared to this:
According to a State Department Annual Report, torture methods in Syria include “pulling out fingernails; forcing objects into the rectum; …using a chair that bends backwards to asphyxiate the victim or fracture the spine.”
Other captives have been sent to Egypt, where, according to the State Department, suspects are routinely “stripped and blindfolded; suspended from a ceiling or doorframe with feet just touching the floor; beaten with fists, whips, metal rods, or other objects; subjected to electric shocks.”
A former CIA official told Newsday about one detainee transferred from Guantánamo Bay to Egypt: “They promptly tore his fingernails out, and he started telling things.”
or this:
British and American aid intended for Iraq’s hard-pressed police service is being diverted to paramilitary commando units accused of widespread human rights abuses, including torture and extra-judicial killings, The Observer can reveal.
. . . The Observer has seen photographic evidence of post-mortem and hospital examinations of alleged terror suspects from Baghdad and the Sunni Triangle which demonstrate serious abuse of suspects including burnings, strangulation, the breaking of limbs and – in one case – the apparent use of an electric drill to perform a knee-capping.
Which brings me, in a somewhat convoluted way back to my title. You see, we have no evidence that Hitler ever, officially, in writing, authorized the concentration camps and the gas chambers of the Jewish Holocaust. There was no paper trail that explicitly led to him. But the camps existed, and he appointed the individual, Heinrich Himmler, head of the German SS, who was directly tied to the creation and operation of the Nazi death camps. And there is no doubt that Hitler, had he lived, would have been prosecuted and convicted for the mass murder of millions of Jews and other “undesirables” in the Holocaust.
You see, there’s a doctrine known as the Law of Agency, with which I’m sure President Bush, as a former officer and director of large business corporations , and holding a Masters of Business Administration from Harvard, is surely familiar. It’s not a difficult concept to grasp really. It basically says that when you give someone the authority to act on your behalf in a certain matter, such as the interrogation of detainees you hold, you are responsible for their actions taken pursuant to that authority.
Furthermore, that grant of authority (in this case Bush to Rumsfeld and Tenet and on down the intelligence and military hierarchies regarding acceptable interrogation procedures) need not be made explicitly. You can imply that someone is your agent and that their actions are pursuant to the authority you have given to them. It doesn’t have to be written down anywhere.
I’ll give you an example. A father drops his car keys into the hands of his underage teenage son, and says, “I’m going to go take a nap now.” He leaves, and the minute he does, the son jumps in the car, turns the key in the ignition and goes speeding down the street. A few minutes later the son crashes into a pedestrian on the side of the road, killing him instantly. Guess who’s responsible (besides the son)? That’s right: Dear Old Dad is. He impliedly authorized his son to drive the car when he handed him the keys, even though he knew his son was underage.
So even if there is no “smoking gun“, “double super secret” Executive Order authorizing torture, Bush is still responsible for the torture of prisoners committed on his watch. He gave the car keys to Rummy and to the CIA and to any country willing to take our War on Terror prisoners and “interrogate” them for us. Whatever they did, they did on his behalf, and under his authority.
And you know what the sad thing is? This bastard got elected last year after most of these torture allegations had been made public (the only one that didn’t to my knowledge was the secret prisons the CIA operates around the world, but I’m sure there were suspicions being bruited about in the media back then). That means in the eyes of most of the world, it’s not just Bush who’s torturing people, it’s all of us. In other words, Mr. Bush lied when he said we don’t torture, because we do.
Thank you Republicans and Bush voters. Thank you ever so much.
Excellent commentary. Very well put! Now the question is, how do we get this to stop? What if this was turned around on us. What would we do or think if we were in the other mans shoes?
The lack of clear guidance, particularly to CIA officers not accustomed to handling detainees, puts officers on the ground in an impossible position, in which they must guess what activities are allowable and hope for the best, former spies said.
As well as our military. I won’t soon forget the Navy SEALs who were put through hell when they searched for, detained and brought to Abu Ghraib the prisoner who now infamously died under CIA control. They’d been sent out to search for him because he was suspected of the horrific bombing of the Red Cross building in Baghdad.
The SEALs got accused of beating him, and went on trial:
Bush Chortles While Navy SEAL Is Hung Out to Dry. I wrote then:
— A CIA officer was allowed to testify at the trial in secret, without press or the public in the courtroom.
— I also described, in depth, the case of a Navy SEAL. A former SEAL with very rightwing beliefs sent me an e-mail thanking me for standing up for the SEALs because he too, despite his conservatism, was deeply troubled by the accusations made against the SEALs.
An old Air America guy once warned me about CIA when I was contemplating applying (thank God it didn’t work out), he said “they bold with their own people, even bolder with others”.
No surprise .. but there’s a terrible report on CNN about an Iraqi Ministry of Interior detention facility.
Some prisoners’ had patches of skin torn off their bodies. There was evidence of severe beatings.
U.S. military officials have detained some of the Iraqis who worked at the facility.
If any of you have seen a story about this, please share.
(We knew that Iraqis were being tortured at Iraqi-run prisons … is the U.S. just getting involved now in putting a stop to it? What’s going on here? Is this a story to deflect from torture of Iraqs by U.S. personnel?)
indicated that real progress was being made in training the Iraqis.
Reuters carried this story:
<snip>
Earlier a deputy interior minister put the number of prisoners at 161 and said he was stunned by their treatment.
“They were being treated in an inappropriate way … they were being abused,” Hussein Kamal told Reuters.
“I’ve never seen such a situation like this during the past two years in Baghdad, this is the worst,” he told CNN.
“I saw signs of physical abuse by brutal beating, one or two detainees were paralysed and some had their skin peeled off various parts of their bodies.”
“This is totally unacceptable treatment and it is denounced by the minister and everyone in Iraq,” he told Reuters.
Kamal said the detainees had all originally been detained with arrest warrants but didn’t say when.
<snip>
Iraq’s Sunni Arab minority has accused militias linked to the Shi’ite-run Interior Ministry and Shi’ite political parties of rounding up Sunnis in raids and holding them without charge. The government has denied the accusations.
Kamal said Jaafari, a Shi’ite, has ordered an investigation into the case of the prisoners in the bunker, to be led by the deputy prime minister, a Kurd.
It’s unclear if the militias have lawful detention powers (it references “arrest warrants”) or who arrested them in the first place.
Robert Fisk comments today on the semantics game:
“Torture” is out. No one tortures in Iraq or Afghanistan or Guantanamo.
What Americans do to their prisoners is “abuse” and there was a wonderful moment last week when Amy Goodman, who is every leftist’s dream, showed a clip from Pontecorvo’s wonderful 1965 movie “The Battle of Algiers” on her Democracy Now program. “Col. Mathieu” — the film is semi-fictional — was shown explaining why torture was necessary to safeguard French lives.
Then up popped Bush’s real spokesman, Scott McClellan, to say that while he would not discuss interrogation methods, the primary aim of the administration was to safeguard U.S. lives.
U.S. journalists now refer to “abuse laws” rather than torture laws. Yes, abuse sounds so much better, doesn’t it? No screaming, no cries of agony when you’re abused. No shrieks of pain. No discussion of the state of mind of the animals perpetrating this abuse on our behalf. And it’s as well to remember that the government of Lord Blair of Kut al-Amara has decided it’s quite all right to use information gleaned from this sadism.
Now I am not much of a poll fan, but this one does offer some interesting insight.
First of all, if this poll is accurate, and anecdotal evidence you can overhear in the street and read on the web suggests that if anything, it may be underestimating the percentage of American torture enthusiasts, a sizeable chunk of the US voting class ( the underclass is seldom polled ) approve of torture, they want it done.
Not to them, though. That exceptionalism thing again.
It also suggests that magical thinking is even more popular than torture.
While the American culture may be more primitive and brutal than most others, many American torture fans will be devastated to learn that the practice is not unique to the US.
Even some of those nifty allies whose torturers were trained by US, actually engaged in the practice long before the US existed and defined their borders and gave them the names they have today.
Some analysts have suggested that some non-Americans might even be capable of torturing people without any American training or aid of any kind, or even American approval
Yet in the world of these pollees, it is unthinkable, simply a file not found, that anyone might torture any of the 200 thousand something gunmen and various operatives currently deployed in population reduction and revenue generation operations around the globe.
In 4 years of this, not even one, well, I think they do admit to one, American gunman has been captured. As they maraud around unfamiliar territory, sticking out like sore thumbs. Oh, sure, the local press here and there in the crusade lands and the Pentagon don’t agree on this, but every right-thinking American knows that the Pentagon would never lie about something like that.
They would never tell the family of a “troop” a lie, or ask them to “grieve” in private for reasons of national security, now would they?
The only real evidence we have of any of that was back in the early days of the Iraq crusade, when Spanish language TV had a few weeping dads on, but those networks were talked to, and they’re on message now!
The question the poll doesn’t ask is, what price are American torturephiles willing to pay for their nasty little passion.
But it’s not really necessary to ask that.
We know.
As Larry Johnson, I, and several others here have pointed out, the influence of American movies and TV dramas cannot be overemphasized.
Invariably, torture done to “bad guys” is shown as working. Torture done to “heroes” (like Mel Gibson) doesn’t work.
Hollywood bears a lot of responsibility for the false message about torture, and its gratuitous use of torture.
America was a leader in getting the Geneva protocols enacted after the incredibly cruel treatment of U.S. soldiers by the Japanese in WWII.
A lot of Americans these days are too young to remember those stories, except if they encounter the stories through a movie or TV show.
I was just going to say the same thing until I saw you said it for me. These are the same people who think every Green Beret is Sly Stallone and every spy is James Bond. They live in a fantasy world of action movies. No wonder we keep harping on a realty-based point of view around here.
If only younger generations could see reports about the Bataan Death March … could hear John McCain’s reports that he cracked under torutre … could see a PBS special I saw the other night about WWII / Japan, where it brought up the terrible mutilation of U.S. soldiers’ bodies by the Japanese, and on and on …. that the Japanese felt that surrender brought everlasting shame on them … that old women hid grenades under their kimonos and threw them at U.S. soldiers …
enough already with this “greatest generation” crap. Those in WII went through living hell, many of them, and that’s a major reason that Geneva and the U.N. were birthed.
Those movies and TV dramas are market-driven.
Let’s say that you are the bestest.screenplay.writer.ever, and you write this killer screenplay with a hero named Ahmed who wears a turban and refuses to tell the torturers whose comrades in invasion are planning to melt the flesh off his fellow villagers a damn thing. Ahmed’s brothers successfully shoot down the invader’s plane filled with guffawing oafs yelling things about ragheads and ass and gas, and Ahmed’s beautiful wife Aisha and their impossibly cute and precocious toddler Yasmin, as well as kindly old grandfather Rahim are all saved from flesh-melting, the oaves are removed from the plane wreckage, and after being threatened in a loud voice with having their faces slapped, reveal the location of all the flesh-melting material, which the villagers collect and drop into the sea, as the oaves sail away in defeat as the music swells and the villagers enjoy a happy feast.
Which studios would put up money to produce this movie? Which companies would sponsor it on TV?
How many times have you heard writers, actors, directors complain about this or that project that they would just love to do, but it just isn’t commercial. Doesn’t even have a hero named Ahmed, it’s just too esoteric, too avant-garde, too intellectual, too not Survivor or Desperate Housewives or Shrek.
Not too long ago, when the west first heard about this education thing, written language and architecture, art and all, they used to teach the children Greek and Latin, astronomy, physics. I know, they thought (as they do now) that the world was a void until the west invented science, etc but they were making an effort.
Today in the US, the west’s ultimate accomplishment, it is said that over 40% of high school graduates are somewhat literate. In one language.
Shortly after the crusade in Afghanistan began, National Geographic did a study with high school students and found that 11% could pick out Afghanistan on a blank map.
Well over 60% were able to pick out Florida. Those who didn’t live in Florida were somewhat below that.
The world must save itself from the barbarians it has, not the barbarians it had hoped they would become.
Former U.S. Army Interrogator Describes the Harsh Techniques He Used in Iraq, Detainee Abuse by Marines and Navy Seals and Why “Torture is the Worst Possible Thing We Could Do”
— today’s featured interview on Democracy Now!
— listen or watch / works for dial-up too
— I watch via DISH’s Free Speech TV and LINKTV channels
Thank you Steven D!
I just wrote in the Grief diary that this country is full of Nazi’s and Nazi supporters.
It’s called The Red Regime.
My young children can SEE it. They KNOW it’s wrong to torture people. Why can’t grown red state adults?
My country was founded on stealing, raping, killing, mass murder, genocide, “do as I say and not as I do”.
Not it’s okay for our military to use — basically napalm — on humans?? I am not safer due to this. My children are not safer.
Now the world has more HATE at my country. … I have more hate for my government and the people who support them.
I hope I’m around to see the day when this is brought to light of sanity and reason and every Bush Supporter rots in their own private hell for what they contributed to… the destruction of the las shred of decency in American.
I am very interested in this
尖锐湿疣 性病 尖锐湿疣 咪喹莫特 疣迪 尖锐湿疣 咪喹莫特 疣迪 艾达乐 咪喹莫特 尖锐湿疣 尖锐湿疣 尖锐湿疣 尖锐湿疣