I think we need to take a look at the guy the lefty blogosphere has been painting as the white knight to Woodward’s dark lord of the sith… because his actions in the Plame story have not been completely above board either.
Pincus has definitely been on the case of the non-existant WMD’s, but perhaps he isn’t pursuing the same agenda as we would think?
Why would he have agreed to “keep Woodward out of the story”? Is that what a “reporter” would agree to if he was actually concerned with tracking down the truth? Especially considering October 2003 was when the Plame story really started to pick up steam…
But of course, no one is demanding Pincus answer that question as the spotlight is on Woodward.
I just happened to stumble across this tidbit at Rigorous Intuition today….
Guess where Pincus got his start?
US Army (Counterintelligence Corps 1955-57)
Now of course, one could say, okay, he used to be an army spook, but surely he left that all behind when he became a reporter…
Really? Then why would the CIA have paid for a few trips overseas in the 60’s to “attend conferences”?
The Washington Post, 18-Feb-1967, DETAILS: How I Traveled Abroad on CIA Subsidy
And why would the Moonie Times have referred to him as such:
on 31 July 1996 described Pincus by saying that “some in the agency refer to [Pincus] as ‘the CIA’s house reporter.'”
And he just happened to be part of the character assassination of Gary Webb after the CIA/ drug dealing story broke… coincidence?
Then there’s the fact that he was a member of the Council on Foreign Relations (where he supposedly received the “George Orwell Award”) along with the following “journalists”
- Bob Woodward
- Judy Miller
- Thomas Friedman
- Joe Klein
- Irving Kristol
- Jim Lehrer
- Bill Schneider
- Brian Williams (I just can’t get enough of Limbaugh…)
Coincidence that the above all parroted the Administration’s line in the lead up to war?
And of course, Bob and Walter’s old boss…
Katherine Graham
The list of who has been on the Council (they may actually be lifetime members vs. term members, but suprise, suprise, the Council website doesn’t list the members) reads like a neocons wet dream… sure there are some “progressives” represented (including Jesse Jackson), but for the most part, it’s neocon central.
Okay, I won’t leave you guessing… here are some other illustrious members:
- Scooter Libby
- Donald Rumsfeld
- Douglas Feith
- Condi Rice
- James Baker
- John Bolton
- Kenneth Blackwell (ie. 2004 election fame)
- Paul Bremer
- Zbigniew Brzezinski
- John Deutch
- Bill Frist
- Porter Goss
- Jeanne Kirkpatrick
- Henry Kissinger
- Newt Gingrich
- Joseph Lieberman
- John Negroponte
- Grover Norquist
- Daniel Pipes
Yes America, these are the esteemed individuals tasked with advising the President on foreign policy.
So back to Pincus… are there any reporters at the WaPo who DON’T have a spook background? Or is that the main criteria for becoming a journo?
And I seriously want some answers as to why he agreed to Woodward’s ridiculous and unethical request.
Makes one wonder just who is being played here and if we really have any idea of what’s REALLY going on.
(oh, and just for giggles, check out the report on Chavez on the CFR homepage and tell me how “non-partisan” it is…)
I need to go take a shower.
Either that or a stiff shot of vodka.
yup. you’ve just discovered a dirty little secret about the SCLM. But still, Pincus didn’t have much to report since Woodward didn’t give him any actionable intelligence. He just said that other reporters had been contacted, but not when and by whom.
true, if Pincus’ recollection of the conversation is accurate.
But I would think a journo who is working on the story would be curious as to how Woodward knew that info for a fact, and if he had nothing to hide, why the request to keep him out of it?
Here is an excerpt that I think speaks volumes.
To me, this says that the conversation wasn’t integral to the investigation in that Woodward probably did not share that information with anyone. It was so well guarded that it appears Fitz himself didn’t know about it so that means the questions were asked in a way that allowed a truthfull denial or the other one involved is in a position high enough that others were willing to protect the information.
If it was crucial to the investigation I think Fitz would have found it. Woodward’s discretion and Pincus’ leaving him out was due also to the sensitivity of that particular source.
I don’t think it mattered until someone used it to attempt a discrediting of Fitzgerald and the investigation. The source would probably not be prosecutable if Woodward also a close intelligence relationship and/or if Woodward did nothing else in disclosing it.
I’ve said for a while now they should all be required to wear uniforms of some sort to identify what side they’re on.
I think the above guesses would apply fittingly if GWB disclosed that info in an interview….a technicality of sorts that was used as an act of desperation by an administration that’s imploding.
Forgot the attribution for above
From Reporter to Courtier
The Long, Long Fall of Bob Woodward
thanks for the link… I have to say though that I got 4 paragraphs into the story and found this complete misrepresentation:
Really? Was Fitz’s case built on chronology or was it built on the fact that Scooter lied to the FBI and the Grand Jury? How does the fact that someone else leaked first weaken a perjury case? It doesnt even weaken an obstruction case since the obstruction was that Libby lied.
I almost don’t even want to keep reading if they don’t even understand the basic facts of the case.
They changed the lead story on that page. Here’s the new link for anyone that might be looking for it.
I don’t agree with that statement either but I read everything with an open mind as to any piece having a variety of truth and false in it.
After being on this for 2 years, all representations of Fitzgerald alludes to him already knowing the answers to questions before they’re made public. The latest revelation did appear to discredit many of Fitz’ claims but I think he knew it would happen that way and used the pressure to produce this result.
There is still a good case against Libby but Fitz’ statements can be spun to make him look uninformed. I think Fitz wanted that impression made so the obstruction charges would be taken more seriously and when the other source comes forth later (now) it will open another door that the source wanted to keep closed.
grrrr @ no-edit
From Reporter to Courtier
The Long, Long Fall of Bob Woodward
Yeah, I finished reading too, it just really bothers me that people can be so fooled, when really, it’s quite clear cut what Fitz’s case is… at least so far.
Good perspective on the rest, I appreciate it.
I think this all says that there is much more to this that Fitz is pursuing and it was worth lying to keep it concealed. I think it’s worth a look to check out others, like Scanlon, who have recently cut a deal or others who have testified again recently. He’s running concurrent investigations in several other connected conspiracies. Maybe Black’s latest charge brought something new (Perle) to this case
Based on the history, Libby’s indictment was more of an opening shot to set the sights and flush other prey into the open rather than an end result.
psssssssst….do them both…; )
you’ll feel better, clean, and buzzzzzzzzzzzzzzed…LOL
waaaayyy ahead of you my friend…. š
with some more info that I haven’t tracked down yet… Oui, I know you’ve got some… š
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Defending Joe Wilson at our sister site!
Thanks to support from some BooTribbers, diary is on Recommended list and will get exposure.
When I saw a diary suggesting Ambassador Joe Wilson as the liar and I. Lewis “Scooter” Libby as victim, I screamed in despair. Getting troll rated for my comment a day later by diarist was a low blow and made me determined to publish the diary at European Tribune.
PS Author has reacted to my criticism of his troll call and changed rating.
A Diplomat's Memoir: Inside the LiesThat Led to War and Betrayed My
Wife's CIA Identity - Valerie Plame!
“Treason doth never prosper: what’s the reason?
For if it prosper, none dare call it treason.”
▼▼▼ READ MY DIARY
okay, that’s for a good cause then. š
Good to see you.
It would help if you let us know where you’re off to next time.
If you ever need any help on those excursions, just holler. Did you get what you needed on SAIC? It changes daily.
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Sometimes I myself lose track of whereabouts! LOL
Don’t ask me about the rat in the cellar, trying to get the city exterminator involved. After a ½ day, they returned call to tell me – the rat wasn’t in a public place, so it was my own problem to solve. I tried to explain the rat must have traveled across public streets to get to my house, so the city should be concerned. A plea to no avail.
So I warned nearby neighbors, just in case the rat came with friends. Tried to find a Rentokil or similar company to handle the problem. Some would come for a visit to give advice on possible entry into my house, charge €40. Afterwards, they might suggest ways to get rid of culprit. Most poisons have been banned as being animal unfriendly with implication the use may not necessarily be limited to a rat.
I just about expected to be interviewed by a marital counseler, before other steps would be offered.
From Internet websites I learned that most rat problems can be solved in Belgium with little concern for animal protection or human rights of its citizens.
Rentokil would make an appointment for a visit free of charge, but they returned call telling me their conclusion was, it’s a stray rat and they would only get involved when its a plague.
Thinking of whereabouts of more rat issues, I figured in an ancient city like Leiden with its canals, they certainly must have a rat problem. Lo and behold, the first pet shop sold some safe anti-rodent feed I could use. Just hoping the rat still has an appetite and didn’t move to a neighbor’s house or risk crossing the street where they will find the city marshall ready to exterminate.
“Treason doth never prosper: what’s the reason?
For if it prosper, none dare call it treason.”
▼▼▼ READ MY DIARY
Thanks for that and I’m sorry for your dilemma. It did allow my life take on a new meaning of simple though.
Will they now try to charge you with harboring animals without a proper permit? It’s good to know they make exception for the plague.
Rats always have an appetite, unless they’re dying already.
I had a problem with two rats when I lived out in the country in Hawaii some years ago. I found some seriously sticky-stuff type traps that actually stuck the rats feet to it when they crossed them toget to food.
I was amazed these things worked, given the size of the rats, both of whom were caught on the same night, accompanied by much rat squeaking.
The grossest part was transporting these creatures far enough away and getting the loose from the stickypads in order to release them. (Amazingly I forget what I used to break the stickybond, but it was something simple and complied with instructions on the box these traps came in. In the end the rats were freed and scurried off into an ironwood forest.
Maybe you’ll be able to find some sort of capture device like these in The Netherlands.
As for Wilson and the neocon vendetta against him and his family, I remain astonished at the level of ignorance such as that displayed by the author of the diary you referenced on Euiropean Tribune above. Such misapprehension of the facts sems almost deliberate, as though the desire to believe one version of events totally negates the value and relevance of, and undermines the diligent pursuit of, the truth.
That is just so wrong, in so many ways.
What a disillusionment.
Yes! It doesn’t seem right somehow. But rats arrived early to the island paradise, aboard ships of the empire from Britain, Portugal, Spain, and eventually Asia.
The rats quickly spread to the great sugar plantations, and so in 1883, the mongoose, dreaded foe of snakes like thecobra, was imported intoHawaii for the purposes of rat control. The scheme failed to work as intended because mongooses are active during the day and rats are active at night as intended and there are now lots of mongooses in the wild serving no good purpose as regards flora and fauna.
(Honolulu has really bad traffic too, but that’s another story.)
interesting, and in this case, depressing and horrifying things I continue to learn every day.
I think Hawaii should round up all the rats and repatriate them to Europe so that they can be reunited with their families.
I’m sure someone there has had this same idea. the problem is telling the difference between the ones going to England and the ones going to Hong Kong, the ones to Shanghai and the ones to Portugal. It’s not like there are identifying cultural markers, and unfortunately they all dress alike.
where they could all start new lives together, along with their two legged Washington cousins…
Maybe James Dobson and his evangelical fascist zealots would make room for them in Colorado Springs, possibly near the dysfunctional Air Force Acqademy. They’d definitely be at home in that neck of the woods.
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Posted earlier in my diary CIRCLE CLOSED :: Neocons – AIPAC –
Shill Reporter Laurie Mylroie – Benador Associates
It’s ≈ A Must Read ≈
CFR – Edward R. Murrow Press Fellow
Is getting rid of Iraqi President Saddam Hussein essential to the war against terrorism? To encourage a debate on international affairs and U.S. foreign policy, the Council on Foreign Relations organized a webcast on U.S. policy toward Iraq as part of its series, “America’s Response to Terrorism”.
The debate on U.S. policy toward Iraq between Leon Fuerth and Richard Perle was webcast on January 22, 2002. Council president Leslie Gelb moderated.
“Treason doth never prosper: what’s the reason?
For if it prosper, none dare call it treason.”
▼ ▼ ▼ MY DIARY
Are we allowed to discuss the influence of Israel on our foreign policy and intelligence services?
sure… I was waiting for someone to bring that up based on who was on the list…
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by Jack Cashill
——————————————————————————–
Posted: November 10, 2005
© 2005 WorldNetDaily.com
“The three most important groups who have
been pressing this country toward war are the
British, the Jewish and the Roosevelt administration.”
On June 14, 2003, when former ambassador Joseph Wilson spoke at the Education for Peace in Iraq Center, he too laid the blame for an allegedly misbegotten war at the foot of an endangered class of Jews …
“Treason doth never prosper: what’s the reason?
For if it prosper, none dare call it treason.”
▼▼▼ READ MY DIARY
Interesting juxtaposition of Lindbergh and his anti-semitism and isolationism during the run-up to WWII. I’ve just finished Philip Roths’ The Plot Against America. The story line and structure is very similar to Sinclair Lewis’ It Can’t Happen Here circa 1935. ( Highly recommended and available in paperback)
Available through Powell’s and recommended.
Oui, Thank you for your postings here…always informative, provocative and well presented…KUDOS!
Peace
This has nothing to do with the Jewish religion or people of that faith in general. It’s the zealots of a fringe fundamentalism in political power.
…uh, yeah, the names(neocons) gave it away.
It doesn’t shock me to find out reporters are tied closely to any of the intel agencies as long as there’s a measure of accountability for their actions.
Yeah, I’m well aware of that, thanks.
And I didn’t mean that the names were Jewish, I meant that they are members of PNAC, etc. etc. and therefore it’s easy to surmise a role for the STATE of Isreal in the CFR.
That wasn’t intended for you. I believe you’re well aware of the distinction. I write my comments to also apply to lurkers and to set out a defense to accusations that usually accompany this subject.
That’s part of the success by this group. They’ve effectively used the anti-semitic accusation to avoid serious discussion or scrutiny. Hell, they’ve even passed laws to prosecute for it. How’s that for Total Information Awareness? When the same group owns the datamining companies, security, information and tech companies and a good chunk of the telecom business then they have the information delivered right to them.
ah, makes sense, thanks for clearing that up.
see… but it worked though, I thought you were making those claims about me š
Gotta love how far they’ve seeped into every conversation about it
The self censoring is working to their advantage too. I enjoy all of your posts and most of most others here too. This site has a great intelligence and discussion of crucial issues in a less combative atmosphere than others. Glad we did get that cleared up. If I ever sound condescending or insulting either call me on it or look at my words a little differently. I try hard to avoid having those attitudes and won’t be that way intentionally.
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The famed Washington Post journalist describes the series of events
that lead him and his source to Fitzgerald.
By VIVECA NOVAK — Posted Friday, Nov. 18, 2005
As reporters keep scrambling to find out who told Bob Woodward about Joe Wilson’s wife, Woodward himself has told TIME about a related mystery: what made the source finally come forward. When the Washington Post reporter went public with his involvement in the CIA leak case earlier this week, he failed to explain why his source waited silently for two years before coming clean to special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald.
In an interview today, Woodward described the sequence of conversations with his source and Post executive editor Leonard Downie, Jr. that led to the latest twist in Fitzgerald’s investigation into the outing of CIA operative Valerie Plame, the wife of administration critic Wilson.
In the final weeks before the grand jury indicted vice presidential aide I. Lewis (“Scooter”) Libby on Oct. 28 for perjury and obstruction of justice, Woodward says he was asked by Downie to help report on the status of the probe. In the course of his reporting, Woodward says, “I learned something more” about the disclosure of Plame’s identity, which prompted him to admit to Downie for the first time that he had been told of Plame’s CIA job by a senior administration official in mid June 2003.
Read on »»
“Treason doth never prosper: what’s the reason?
For if it prosper, none dare call it treason.”
▼▼▼ READ MY DIARY
“Learned something more”
Interesting.
And he had no problem saying “yes” to Downie about covering the story even though he knew he was a part of it.
Wow, with each statement he makes he blows more and more holes in his credibility.
You know what this looks like to me now?
Two factions of the CIA warring against each other.
One is pro-gov.
The other is simply pro-CIA–wedded to its former and future goals.
I’ve already known that the CIA has both liberals and conservatives.
Porter Goss’ cleanup of the agency seems more and more only the tip of the iceberg.
This is a war between those who work for Cheney and his neocon warmongers and those who work on behalf of the best interests of the country known as the United States of America. Those deployed on Cheney’s behalf do not have the best interests of the country guiding their actions. P{orter Goss isonly one of many on the Cheney side of the ledger. He got the CIA job just so he could conceal and obfuscate and suppress any disclosures that might illuminate Cheney/neocon malfeasance.
Traitor is not too strong a term to apply to these dirtbags.
Another possibiity: Someone was getting a bit too antsy, i.e., is it possible that the pressure was getting to be a bit much???
These are more lies. Woodward is just trying to cover his a**. More likely , his source HAD testified previously in front of the GJ and probably said something like, “I discussed Wilson’s wife and her CIA affiliation with Scooter in June, but I didn’t talk to anyone in the press. As far as I know, Scooter was the first person to talk to the press.”
Fitzgerald must have had some physical evidence or possibly info from Rove during his 11th hour negotiation that led him to suspect that Mr.X had conversations with someone in the press before Libby did. His remark during his press conference about Libby being the first to talk to the press, was IMHO a not-so-subtle warning to Mr. X (I’ve got the goods on you, let’s make a deal), as it is very interesting that this statement DID NOT appear anywhere in the Libby indictment. To me, that indicates that Fitzgerald had reasons to believe this statement was NOT true (and also the fact that he didn’t charge LIbby with IIPA).
So Mr.X had a chat with Fitz, made a deal, and then released Woodward to corroborate his story. Whatever Mr. X and Woodward told Fitz must have been good, as Fitz is now preparing to take this evidence in front of a sitting GJ, possibly to indict someone.
It’s possible that Woodward also independently contacted Mr.X before he talked with Fitz to “encourage” him to talk with the prosecutor (or to corroborate stories), but I doubt he did it for noble reasons, more likely he did it because he, like Mr.X, was unsure of what kind of evidence Fitz had of their conversation, and Woodward wasn’t about to spend time in jail following a subpoena and contempt charge to protect Mr. X.
Hadley being Mr. X makes sense, as does (but to a lesser degree) Cheney. I guess we’ll probably find out before long.
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Introduction from my previous diary :: Mr. X Is David Wurmser
ME Advisor to VP Cheney ¶ Link to ISA John Bolton
(RAW STORY) Oct. 24 — With the possibility of indictments just days away, sources close to the investigation into who outed covert CIA agent Valerie Plame Wilson provided a more detailed account into how and why Plame’s name was leaked and what role the Pentagon and the vice president’s office played.
Those close to the investigation say that Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald has been told that David Wurmser, then a Middle East adviser to Vice President Dick Cheney on loan from the office of then-Under Secretary of State for Arms Control and International Security Affairs John Bolton, met with Cheney and his chief of staff I. Lewis “Scooter” Libby in June 2003 and told Libby that Plame set up the Wilson trip. He asserted that it was a boondoggle, the sources said.
WURMSER WAS SUBJECT OF ANOTHER FBI PROBE:
“According to a government source, the Pentagon’s National Criminal Investigative division began probes in 2002 – with FBI guidance – to determine who leaked secret war plans to The New York Times and The Washington Post in June 2002.
At the State Department, diplomatic security launched an investigation into David Wurmser, an aide to John Bolton, for leaking a letter from Secretary of State Colin Powell to the Pentagon objecting to the Syria Accountability Act. The letter ended up being the basis for a story in The Jerusalem Post.”
[The New Republic, 10/10/05]
“Treason doth never prosper: what’s the reason?
For if it prosper, none dare call it treason.”
▼ ▼ ▼ MY DIARY
I agree. Wurmser is my top candidate for “X” too. Second choice was Hannah but now that he’s been promoted by Cheney, my former third choice, Fred Fleitz, moves to the #2 spot.
The Orange Zone reported tonight via NYT (and RAW STORY who conjectured first) that it’s Stephen Hadley.
not NYT – Sunday Times (UK)
same reporter who broke the DSM story.
: 0
but, speaking of the NYT, it looks like we may be getting millered into iran.
double : 0
that I love the fact that on this board no one questioned my inclusion of Lieberman as a neocon…
Does a girl’s heart good. š
You gots to call ’em like you sees ’em.
It kills me when people try to say what a freat Democrat he is. He might be good at promoting his agenda(neoconcervative) but it’s a contradiction to the Democrats. I agree it’s good to not hear disagreement on that one.
I’m still wondering what will be the best extermination of the Washington rat infestation.