Transcript of Barbara Boxer’s appearance on The Situation Room with Wolf Blitzer, with occasional snarky commentary when it just couldn’t be avoided.
Blitzer: Where do you stand on this very sensitive issue of impeachment?
Boxer: Well, I stand on this ground. I was at an event with John Dean, and I think your viewers remember him, or at least they’ve read about him. He was, of course, the White House counsel when Richard Nixon faced impeachment hearings, and of course he resigned before them. It had to do with abuse of power, and we were both asked about this question of surveillance on American citizens without a warrant, and I was very cautious in what I said.
I said, “Look, it’s worrisome to me, I don’t see where he has the right in the law to do this” and then I called for hearings, and I said it was great that Arlen Specter said we would have hearings. John Dean said it was the first time he had heard a president admit to an impeachable offense. And, it took me back, because I think he is one of the most knowledgeable people on executive abuse of power. So what I did was, I took his statement and got permission from him to use it, and I sent it off to four scholars- constitutional scholars – to see what they think, and I’m calling for hearings on this.
Wolf: So, you’re not ready at this point to say that he should be impeached?
Boxer: Oh, no. But I do have tremendous respect for John Dean on this question, and he felt very strongly. The other thing I’ve done is I’ve spoken for example to Senator Joe Biden, who wrote the very law that is supposed to be followed here. He’s very very concerned. You know, all this talk by the president and the vice president, “Oh, we don’t have time to go to a court. There’s emergencies here!” Well, I’m sure it’s true, but that’s why our law allows a president to go right away and apply for those warrants retroactively within 72 hours. There is no excuse why they can’t subject themselves to checks and balances on behalf of the American people. To protect us, of course, from any threat, but also to protect our liberties and our freedoms.
Blitzer: The Democratic Minority Leaders in the Senate and the House, as well as the ranking Democrats on the intelligence committees in the House and the Senate were all informed by the White House, specifically by Vice President Cheney about what was going on. Do you feel that they were negligent in not reacting more vocally or aggressively, behind the scenes, under a classified nature, to try to stop this? (Excuse me, mister so-called journalist, but shouldn’t you say “The Vice President CLAIMS this” rather than repeating White House talking points as though they were indisputable facts?)
Boxer: Well, that’s the point, they did. If you saw today, Jay Rockafeller, one of the people who was “informed” was very concerned about this, and happily – I am so glad he did this – he caught the Vice President in another, if I might say, untruth. (I am NEVER going to understand this taboo against using the word “lie”, and the contortions people must go to NOT to use that word. Somehow it’s “uncouth” or something, but I would think not nearly as unspeakable as the ease and consistency with which this president lies to the American people.) The Vice President said, “Oh, no one said a word about this. Everyone essentially agreed.” Jay Rockafeller wrote a letter, in his own handwriting, because he was prohibited from telling ANYONE about this, he wrote a letter to the Vice President and put it in a safe in the Intelligence Committee room. And he brought it out–where he’s telling the Vice President, I have SERIOUS concerns about this. I’m very worried about this. So, that’s another fact that just is not in evidence. They’re saying people agreed with this, but they didn’t.
Blitzer: Well, on that point, Senator Roberts of Kansas, the chairman of that Intelligence Committee, disputes that point. He says that Rockafeller, who was the vice-chairman, he said, “I never have heard from him any objection about this valuable program” Roberts goes on to say, “Now, when it appears to be politically advantageous, Senator Rockafeller has chosen to release his two and a half-year-old letter. Forgive me if I find this to be inconsistent, and a bit disingenuous.”
Boxer: Well, that is just tragic, because if Senator Rockafeller had come out with this before, he could have been kicked out of the United States Senate. This was highly classified–
Blitzer: But he could have spoken to Senator Roberts about it.
Boxer: Well, no–you don’t talk to ANYONE–
Blitzer: But Roberts was informed also–
Boxer: Wolf, Wolf–let’s get to the facts here. If Senator Roberts has a problem with Senator Rockafeller, fine. But the bottom line is, Dick Cheney said everyone who was briefed just went along with this. “They were told, no one complained.” That is a falsehood on its face. It’s absolutely a falsehood. (Some might even call it a lie.) And then the President last year, in April of 05, talks, and it looked to me like it was off the cuff, reassures the American people, “Don’t worry, when we spy on you, we always get a warrant.” So, you know, this is a very serious situation here, and the facts will speak for themselves. You know, the greatest thing about America is, the truth always comes out. And, especially when there’s lots of people who are after the truth. Lots of people are after the truth, and I think we will find out exactly why they couldn’t take time, to get a check and balance on their work, go to the court. Again, the court has a history of always granting these warrants exept in the MOST unusual circumstances. They even had a way to do it retroactively, and yet they didn’t do that.
Blitzer: Senator Boxer, thank you for spending a few moments with us. This subject, not going to go away, I’m sure you’re not going to let it go away, and a lot of others aren’t going to let it go away either. Appreciate it very much.