This is a first for me. At least as far as I can remember. I started typing this as a comment in the open thread. But it has grown to diary size. So fuck it. Here is what is on my mind:
Can’t agree more with SallyCat, dada and many others expressing their dismay at the Democratic party.
I’ve been in a discussion at dKos on these issues.
I’m sensing that there are many, many dems who are in despair. Ready to become something different.
I don’t think they (entrenched Dems) thought we were serious. Or thought we had a place to run. And maybe we don’t. Yet. But I have to tell you that my mind is spinning. Why not form a third-party? We are so completely fucked now, it doesn’t matter. Why not form a party that actually stands up for people instead of corporations? One that stands for individual liberty over government control. One that stands up for an environment and an economy based on the principles of sustainability instead of the fallacy of constant “economic growth.” One that eschews military-imperialism in favor of peaceful global cooperation. One that stands for science and reason instead of religion and fearful passion.
Was it Robert Kennedy who said, “Some men see things as they are and ask ‘Why?’ I dream things that never were and ask, ‘Why not?’ ” Was he the last Democrat that anyone was proud to support. The one we hold in our minds and mourn his loss. [Of course it was — But I wasn’t sure when I started to write my paraphrased and now perfect quote — FSM bless the Internet].
I believe that this computer as a form of communication is a powerful tool. I was impressed by those that tried very hard to rally at the end. Duke. Steven D. BooMan. SusanHu. Man Eegee. Armando. Gerogai10. Judibrown. Tampopo and all the other Days of Justice 12. (I don’t mean to exclude you. You know who you are. Sitting there. Have worked your heart out. To try to save the country you thought you grew up in. You were downtrodden after Bush-Gore. You blew a cork at the Iraq invasion. You felt like shit after Bush-Kerry. You blogged. You called. You contributed. You volunteered. You marched. And now you are sitting there reading this shit, saying what the fuck am I going to do now).
Isn’t it time. Fuck the Democrats. Let me replay a conversation I had with my Senator Levin’s office. He is my best Senator. Best representative in my chain of command. But here is what I said today — and wrote about at dKos:
[I had this conversation with Sen. Levin’s office in my district. I gave him my position in detail. And I’d written him an explicit letter to this effect. But here’s the end of my conversation with his staffer today.]
He says, “So what? Are you saying that if he were to vote ‘yes’ on cloture you would support a Republican?” I said, “Yes. That’s what I’m telling you. Not only if he votes ‘yes,’ but if he isn’t able to get his Democratic colleagues to support him. Because this is core to me. It is what I thought the Democratic party stood for all these years. And a close loss without putting up the actual fight on filibuster means nothing to me. So while my first choice would be to turn to a third party that might agree with me, I would vote yes for a Republican. Because — and I hate to use this word on the phone — I would rather get screwed by a Republican on issues like this than a Democrat.”
I’m saying this. And I know there are a lot of you on this site who feel exactly this way. There is no party in American politics that supports the issues we believe in. The party that used to has moved so far to the center in their effort to get elected, that they have completely alienated us. And they think they haven’t gone far enough yet. For FSM sake, I was on the phone today saying I’d like a nominee like Sandra Day O’Connor, who by anyone’s standards twenty years ago was a solid conservative. The country has moved without us. The party has moved without us. And we would dearly love to be able to support our candidates and our causes with equal passion.
So I’m saying — and maybe this is just the sting of this loss — this loss that endangers my daughters’ reproductive rights and very equality — IT IS TIME TO FORM OUR OWN PARTY THAT WE BELIEVE IN AND THAT WE SPEND OUR MONEY AND ENERGY TO BUILD.
And the beauty of it. As I think about it more. So fucking what if we do? Will it kill the country? Fuck no. The country is already dead. The three ring circus of our government lies in the sole possession of a vapidly conservative-christo-corporate-fascist monster of a party. And the dems are just small resistance. Frankly, if we bolt the dems, and they get absolutely fucking clobbered in ’06 and ’08 while we are building, and the Rethugs end up with control of 80% of the government, while we re-organize something we believe in. All the better. Because when we are ready to go. With a party we believe in. Then people will be ready for a fresh voice.
I finish with this. Fourteen years ago, a squeaky little guy who bought a bunch of air-time on national television, and had a little foamboard presentation about a single issue, almost launched a successful third-party movement in this country. That was before the Internet. And that fucker was polling close to a third of the vote for president, when he flaked and abandoned the race. Had he been elected, I’d say the Democrats or Republicans would not exist today. It would be the Reform Party of America against the survivor. I was at some of the rallies and offices. I remember the fervor. The hunger in people. And there is more hunger now. Because we are being royally screwed into the dirt by the present two-party system. I say it is time.
And I don’t even have a name. A rose by any other. It doesn’t matter. But I’m taking your nominations. Because I want us to lead it from right here. I didn’t want to write this crazy fucking rant. But I’m snapping. And I believe in you people here. A fuck of a lot more than I believe in the party.
So answer the poll question.
[UPDATED] Waking up this morning, and reading this, I’m left nearly speechless. The number of wonderful ideas that have been shared. I don’t think I can respond to each of them at this point. But I like them. And I think there may be a synthesis in them. Something we can definitely get behind as a group. Something that we may be able to build on. I don’t know. But I plan to diary it later in the day/early evening. Take what are wonderful ideas, and pull them together in someway, as best I can. I’m not sure about much. But for me, I honestly am not saying, “I’m not a Democrat anymore” because it is some joke. And then again, I worry about my own decisions and thoughts, and if they will prove constructive or destructive to what many of us share in terms of values. I don’t know. But there is much to build on right here in these comments. And I thank each of you for sharing what you have. I don’t intend on overlooking one thought when I get around to pulling this together in some fashion. We are good and strong people. We have been ill-served by our present leadership. Of that I’m convinced. How best to go onward, I’m not sure. But onward I think we need to go.
“Liberal”
in fact that is what I wish I could register as.
The Democratic party tainted that term, but I say we take it back and make it stick.
Sign me – a proud liberal
Let me make this out — New voter registration card for “liberal” party. Voter No. 01 — Damnit Janet. Very pleased to have you aboard.
(approval of Liberal Party name still pending).
Reality Party? People’s Party sounds so… well, used.
Or how about, “We won’t fuck you over to empower ourselves and our corporate cronies Party”
and members could be called “woodies.”
or maybe i should just stay out of politics.
LOL
I like the “woodies.” Makes me laugh at least. No small feat on a night like tonight. You must not stay out of politics though. (Future secretary of the EPA or something).
Ranting is good. A podcast rant is better 🙂
Hey. One revolution at a time pardner. 😉 Did I send you my demo? I can’t remember who got it?
Nope. But I only want finished, polished product.
The Peaceful Progressive Party
Not bad. I’m not counting any names out. Round them all up like cattle and let people vote on them tomorrow.
A party that stands for “we the people” values of life, liberty, and justice for all….
I personally like it, but it sounds a bit “Red” to succeed in middle America. Who knows.
How about the “We The People” Party ?
Right on Boston Joe. The Democrats can stuff it. I still like Barbara Boxer and she will continue to have my support, but DiFi can kiss my ass. She may have voted right this time, but that was a first in many a year.
How about the Green Party? (Though I really love the Liberal Party suggestion).
I will never give another dime to any of the Democratic organizations, but I may support individual candidates provided they are Liberal and/or Progressive.
My feeling is if this is what we can expect from Democrats, then to hell with them. They voted for the bankruptcy bill, the medicare bill, CAFTA, against workers and consumer rights, ad nauseum. I figure if people want to be screwed over by these creeps, then let them lie in the bed they made for themselves. I will do what I can to protect my daughter and know that at least I have the money to send her to Canada for an abortion, should she need one. I’m tired of fighting for people who do not represent even the most basic principals I thought were part of the Democratic Party platform. But when, and a big if, people start realizing just what they have done, it would be nice to have a real Party ready and willing to go.
the thing about third parties is they have no business mucking about with national races if they’re serious about engendering change. they truly need to build the party UP and gain some serious representation at the city and state level before potentially throwing races to the GOoPers.
ross perot was a wildcard with no party affiliation – we’re likely to get those from time to time. but for, say, the greens to run a candidate in 2K, see what evil it wrought, and do it again in 2004 was just irresponsible.
believe me; i understand all the reasoning behind the finance qualifications, etc, but if running is going to cost their closest ally major elections, it is a short-sighted, counter-productive pursuit. think of all the sanctimonious fuckwit “purists” who couldn’t even suck it up enough to vote for kerry – how the hell can they say that there’s no difference between kerry and shrubya and expect to be taken seriously?
sure the dem party needs some serious fixing – but basically giving away votes to the (R) is not going to help anybody, dem or no.
but i ramble – if you do go third party, even if it’s infiltrating the greens, DON’T LET THEM RUN A PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE. please! unless, of course, they’ve got a teddy roosevelt up their sleeve.
a Revolution, either could certainly happen.
I am sorry to say that in my view, the reality is that very few people are dissatisfied with the status quo enough to go to such lengths.
Now as events unfold, the number of those dissatisfied will probably increase, but I would not count on it increasing to such an extent. It is quite possible that mainstream Americans are willing to make extremely great sacrifices for their belief in exceptionalism and their desire that their corporations garner additional revenues. One could argue that extreme sacrifices have already been made.
For example, in the heat of today’s hijinks, someone posted that they had just received a phone call from the Democratic Party, wanting her to send money. She said something about Alito, and the solicitor did not know what she was talking about. Who’s Alito? he asked.
I do not think that most Americans are yet at a point where they are sufficiently displeased with the conditions to take an interest beyond the traditional trust our leaders support our President USA is number One, Resolve, Prevail.
And I am sorry to say I do not think it is likely that point will be reached, even when the Medicare Death Wave hits.
If I list out a parade of what has passed for policy over my adult life time, to include the Clinton years, it is a remarkable string of things that I mostly disagree with in principled terms. Some of it I can hold my nose and accept. So either I am a complete, extremist idiot, or I am like a lot of folks around here, and there is no party that is representing our true interests. And that ought to change. We are smart, talented people. Revolutions happen all the time. Political. Military. Economic. Cultural. There is no reason we cannot do something about this. Other than not having the will. Maybe they stop us somehow. But I’m thinking someone has to give it a try. In the face of their constant ignoring of our pleas to be represented.
Hi Joe…I think you’re absolutely right. I’ve been thinking about this for some time…I always thought that I basically had to vote democrat(or occasionally other than repug)but as things have progressed with bushco and the incredible failure of Democrats to take their constituents seriously when we speak up-as we did with this whole Alito push by the Internet-and way to many democrats simply ignoring us or possibly voting no knowing it would make no difference except to make them look good, I have had it.
Even if we win a few seats this coming November, what will that get us anyway when so many Dems are betraying the foundations of the democratic platform and going along with the rethugs? I don’t know why they think they can be they can win by being rethug lite…it hasn’t worked so far.
Oh yeah..magnets…my sister gave me a set of those refrigerator magnets that comes with a hundred words or so and this group of words are all political sooooooooooo my point here is I was playing around with some of the words today and ended up with ‘revolutionary democracy’…not neccessarily a name for a new party but it seems we have to get back to the ‘ideal’ of what the founders of this country wrote about in the Constitution.
We do need a revolution-pure and simple and if not with particularly with guns but with people singing up for a third party, with our words and our numbers to start to take back the country.
I am probably being way too idealistic here, but I honestly believe that if many of our founders could be brought back for a short time, and introduced to the current state of political affairs, they would be talking about doing what we are talking about doing here. Only I believe they were so extraordinary and lived at the perfect moment, that they not only talked — they did. I think we could do it. I believe that.
(((( BostonJoe))))
Our founders didn’t start another party. 🙂
Joe, you might join the ProgressiveTalk@yahoogroups.com mailing list. It’s a strong list — over 500 members — many of them with decades of knowledge and experience in progressive politics and they mostly have left the Democratic party in the dust.
I don’t always agree with them. Sometimes they drive me nuts. But I learn a hell of a lot from them. They also read a lot of media that even we don’t read here, surprisingly enough.
Forgot to finish my post to you, Joe. What I meant to suggest was that you join that list, and introduce yourself — tell them about your novel too! — and tell them about what you wrote in this diary.
Ask for their feedback. You’ll get lots.
But the more I participated the more I meant it and the more I meant it the more I participated. The more I found out about Alito in these last four days the more dangerous I knew he was and the harder I pushed. I suppose I drew my own line in the sand and it was crossed. I’m an Independent!
(psst…call me when you’re done blogging…)
on the stove! I think I need another dose……maybe two! Do you have a mustard plaster for my broken heart too?
I think I’m feeling pouty and bloaty…
but how comes you guys never tell me to call you??
😀
pick up the phone, girlfriend!
You have the digits still? I have your cell I think. You’ve been on the road moving since Cabingirl and I have been leaning on each others shoulders through this political nightmare!
Zillies 🙂 I love you two!
I’m just procrastinating getting on with the cleaning the oven. ACK.. and another diary has my mind reeling and reeling.
But.. I might be on the fluffy side… feeling kinda bloaty.. ARGH Why is being a woman so hard sometimes?
(do I have your new number?)
8675-309 🙂
I’ll email ya tomorrow with my deets 🙂
Truly I was just joshing.
Bloaty and Pouty Party?? 🙂 Sorry BostonJoe – carry on
Me too. But I don’t want to be completely independent. I feel some power in groups, if the groups stand for something. I feel some power in this place. I feel some power when the local anti-war group get together and takes action. So I’m saying, fuck it, let’s not only be independents. Let’s band together and take those who feel this way about the Democratic Party (you know there are lots of us) and let’s start something worth fighting for. Just a thought. A gut reaction to these last five years culminating in this kick in the teeth. 25 votes. If they get 41 tomorrow I’m going to flip the fuck out. Because there is no reason to vote “no” on the nominee and not to oppose cloture knowing that it is your only real opportunity to do what your no vote says you should be doing. That is piss poor politicking with our lives. With our rights. And I’m sick of it.
That’s my vote. Not liberal. Not conservative. Leave that confinement behind. Progressive = moving people forward. Let’s start with candidates for school boards and city councils — I’m serious. Let’s aim for interacting with people on a direct local level.
The government is gone to hell and the country is going to follow. And when the collapse comes, all we’re really going to have are local conditions that need local solutions.
I was just about to write this very name. If we are serious, we need to get some big money donors to bank roll this party. I have been seriously thinking about this for a few days now. The Dems get a ton of money from Hollywood, but I can only imagine that the George Clooneys and Tim Robbins of the world are as pissed off as us. They need to get on board.
Do you think that Soros likes this crap – I bet not.
How about taking over the Executive Boards of the nation’s unions. That should leave the Dems shaking in their bunny slippers. I mean it – I am pissed and ready to turn up the heat.
The Constitution Party. It will attract rural rednecks and educated urbans equally. Like I said, leave liberal and conservative behind and start focusing on what the foundation of this country means.
I think the Constitution Party name is taken by a truly insane group of right wingers. They think the right wingers in the republican party are too far left.
I really like the idea of having the Constitution in the name, but I do think there is a party out there that has claimed that one. Just off the top of my head.
Excellent point. Why continue wasting money on the Democratic Party? Our new party can be just as ineffective an opposition immediately, and we have the promise to grow into something we can all be proud of.
I like that name very much. Isn’t there already a party called this? I’m just asking.
How about “The Democratic Citizens Party”, or “The Citizens Party”.
Good nominees. Like the people’s party without the whole “Red” imagery.
Robert Kennedy who said, “Some men see things as they are and ask ‘Why?’ I dream things that never were and ask, ‘Why not?’ ”
He stole it from Blake. It is the Devil who says this. Which, in Blake’s view, is good thing.
Yes, form new parties. It’s not like we are going to have any more national elections, anyway. Really, this is just win-win.
That’s what I love about this place. Always four hundred very well-educated people to set you straight on details. 🙂
I like the statement whether RFK or the devil said it.
Is anyone here truly surprised at this outcome?
I count it a mark of some progress that we had as many democrats as we did actually voting against cloture. Given their votes over the past five years, it was a lot more than I expected.
And frankly, the “netroots” weren’t together either on this. I have no quibble with anyone here whatever, but we all know that effects were uneven in places where we expected more.
I think we wait in vain for a national leader to rise. We will have to grow new leadership (BJ, why aren’t you running for office??) I am dubious that a third party is it. I prefer the model of the Freedom Democrats, who were successful in challenging the “old white men” of the party bosses during the Civil Rights movement. They changed the party. I think that’s what we need again.
And Perot, for all of the fervor he attracted, was attractive in part because of his utter self confidence – and the fact that he was wealthy and could fund a lot of his start-up. As one who was a long-time resident of Texas, I love Ross Perot, but the man is a wacko (and I’m not speaking here clinically, but as a practical reality). I don’t think many of us here would be in love with Perot if he had won. I keep thinking of our family friend who worked for Perot: “must wear dark suits to work (even though our friend’s job was directing a film crew in the field, editing film when not in the field). White shirt(not blue, gray, or any color) & dark ties, no turtlenecks, knits, or any other sort of shirt. Tie shoes, preferably black with black socks, no athletic shoes. Clean shaven, no beards, mustaches, etc. Short, neat hair.” Doesn’t sound like anyone I’d want to work with or for.
My fear now is that we’d end up with another wealthy oddity, say – Donald Trump!!
(Oh, BJ, the quote is from George Bernard Shaw. The Kennedy speech writers were good, but not that good. They were quite skilled at lifting quotes along the way. And BJ, re Perot, I have a confidential for you, two words: Jeffrey Fieger.)
I’m not surprised by the outcome. I’m saddened at my own lack of surprise, if anything. Why can’t we expect more? Why can’t we expect a party to value our core ideals enough to fight? Why should we value a losing battle, where members of our party did not even vote to go to battle over a core issue? I simply reject it. I’m setting a new personal standard. Parties I support are going to demonstrate, with actions, things that I agree with. No more political centering for the good of the team.
“Netroots” were not completely together. I called out Kos, who I found lacking. I think John Avorosis at America Blog surrendered on this issue. And I have to wonder, if some of our biggest players had been in the game, would it have made a difference. In a matter of days, some bloggers made a real run at this. That was great. That’s why I say that the Internet and blogs are a powerful political tool. But to what end. To make the Democratic Party more electable by becoming more center-right. That seems to be Kos’ agenda. That’s my perception anyway. So I guess I’m not worried about dividing blogdom. I’d be thrilled if we at Booman could seriously initiate a political alternative. Because people are hungry for an alternative.
I’m not running for anything. Never will. On a good day, my political speech makes Howard Dean’s “I have a scream” speech look like it was delivered by Stephen Wright on depressants. I am a lunatic. I sound like a lunatic in person. That’s not to say my ideas are not occasionally sound. Just being honest here.
As for working within the party. I don’t think that is such a bad idea. For a short time, while we grow a true alternative. Because I’m beginning to view Democrats as entrenched opposition. When you talk about topics like this, you see many of them dig in their heels and toe the party line. Not about ideas. Just about the idea that the Dems are the only way to go. Kind of like the treatment Naderites got by Dems. Well if the Dems weren’t abusing their natural base, they would have never had to worry about Nader Greens. But I completely think that some kind of hybrid start-up of within and without would be a sound strategy for beginning a serious effort.
I’m not saying anything about Perot’s politics one way or another. I’m only saying that he tapped into a real revolutionary need within our electorate. One I believe is still there just below the surface, waiting to be tapped.
So it was Shaw. Well at least they were stealing from a master.
The Democratic party is currently too obsessed with winning elections by not upsetting one single so called moderate voter. However, this means constantly letting down your base and still relying on them turning up to vote like loyal dogs. Is this a good strategy to win elections? Well we will see very soon.
Then if an election is won will the focus be on implementing an agenda or of continuing to avoid upsetting so called moderate voters to avoid electoral setbacks in the 2-yearly cycle?
This is all further complicated by the “big tent” approach.
The old vote them in and things will be better can sound attractive, but let’s not forget how far anybody but Bush got Kerry. Let’s also not forget we want principles adhered to even when the going gets tough. So far the party has a lot to do to convince on the latter point.
I think there is a ready made base for that type of speaker. It’s a shame you won’t toss your hat in.
The honest observations are what make Wright so funny. He would be liquid if he were any more relaxed.
The support for this is out there, everywhere. Excellent comments all through this diary.
I am only a nominal Democrat anyway, but as much as I like the idea of a third party, I just don’t think it’s a viable option. I could, of course be wrong and just thinking defeatist thoughts or whatever, but…
Anyway, someone came up with the suggestion not too long ago of forming a voting bloc… I am not sure how they had that defined, but it suggested to me something along the lines of what the right did with the christian coalition. Maybe the progressive coalition ;). Anyway, with well defined values, terms, things we expect in exchange for our votes and putting our support behind candidates, and also with well defined repercussions against people who decide to toss Democratic values aside in favor of corporations or Dobsonites.
I think something like this can be done, and could also draw support from non blog readers, mainstream democrats, lefty types and so on.
I’ve not thought it thru much yet, but figured I would toss it into the mix, as an alternative.
I have always questioned the viability of third parties. I guess now, I’m just questioning the viability of the existing opposition party more.
As for your idea of a voting bloc, I think it is a good one. One that should be seriously considered, in a way that I hope is complimentary to building a party we could be proud of. Using it to elect good Dems early on, to convert good Dems when the time comes, and to continue on with electing good “Woodies” or whatever we happen to call this party. 🙂
Now that sounds like a plan. Especially if things start locally… getting elected to school boards, and city councils and so on, and running loud and proud on the on the … Woodie Party platform.
Mind you… I’m afraid that for that name some may feel we should reprise those dreadful elephant wee apparatus hats they had at the last republican convention… without the ears, of course.
I’m so completely sold on the idea of starting a party and concentrating in the initial years on local races. Familiarize the name of the party with voters. Be grassroots. Netroots. Whatever. And then go. And use the bloc strategy in the meantime to do our best in elections where we cannot yet run candidates.
I like it as an idea.
The “woodie” thing. While I love the name, it is only a senitmental favorite. I like colorful, but “woodie” might be too colorful for comfort.
The name will find the party when it’s time but Progressive seems to sum it up nicely. Besides the current state of affairs that need attention, I can see this group still being progressive twenty or thirty years from now. It’s a forward looking attitude that sees the constantly evolving society in need of new ideas to apply to old problems. It’s dynamic and meets a challenge rather than relying on insufficient established policy.
Progressive is also inclusive, compassionate and understanding. We all have different needs and together we can accomplish more for the benefit of all of us knowing that reasoned compromise considers all interests.
Progressive is moving forward in a determined direction to achieve goals.
I have always like the word. Even before Liberal became a four letter word. To me it harkens back to the populism in an earlier American era. Darrow-esque.
Here’s a site I just found that looks interesting.
Welcome to IPPN:
Building a unified, independent, progressive alternative to the corporate controlled, two-party, economic/political system.
I understand the spirit of what you’re saying here today and that site linked isn’t a proposed answer but at a glance, it looks familiar.
I think it’s great just to see like-minded people wanting to join forces for a better future, regardless of name or affiliation.
Looks pretty interesting. Have they beaten me to the punch? 🙂
I think the founder of that group passed away, so you might still have a shot at a coup.
I think the Progressive platform has been around and incorporates most of what is of interest here at this site. It seems like it never had a true party affiliation but drew from the Dems and Greens.
Even for a start, a few well organized common coalitions might be effective. I’m one to support policy more than party but party unity has tremendous advantages.
I do like this idea or coalition. Not just a party. Think that it is a building block in that way. An idea that can grow. And can encourage those not sure if they want to take the jump.
How many remember who it was that stood up and demanded a recount in Ohio when John Kerry turned his back? Who joined with John Conyers in demanding investigations into fraud in Ohio?
I do.
Green Party of the United States
I do love the Greens for that supersoling. And I will tell you that I’ve reached out to the Greens in some of my peace work, and in some of my research for the book. But to my astonishment, that party is in a state of disarray in my locality.
The whole purpose of finagling Nader onto the Green ticket was to put them in disarray, and destroy any credibility they might have, or acquire, just for such an occasion as this, when if there were a reliable, stable Peter Camejo-topped Green party alive and functional, those Democrats who like you, are displeased with the transition to a one party system, might defect.
Again, overcautiousness on the part of strategists, as the number of defectors would still be small, especially a week after today’s events, when most of the the angry and betrayed will forgive their pets, and resume check-writing and other devotee activities.
That’s why I’m striking when the iron is hot DF. Glad you made it to the initial meeting of the party formerly known as Prince.
So. Are you in, or are you out. Or are you not a citizen capable of gaining membership in our party? Will we have an immigration policy that will be inviting of you (assuming you are on foreign soil) or will we use you as a political chit to rally the support of large numbers of xenophobic white males. (I wouldn’t allow such things on principle alone. If the party starts like that, I’ll have to leave and start an effective fourth-party).
Seriously. We need support from wildly intelligent and witty commentators as yourself. You simply must come to the 1st annual convention tomorrow.
YES!!!
We already HAVE a “third party.”
One that is one the correct side of the most IMPORTANT issue.
Our survival on the planet Earth.
Dead as a Democrat or dead as a Republican…no difference.
No political parties in the graveyard.
You want real change?
You want the corporations to be forced into abandoning their Blood For Oil wars?
VOTE GREEN.
Drop OUT of the DemocRatpublican Party and work for the Greens.
It’s the only move that makes sense.
I am…
AG
I’m going to include them (Greens) on list of alternatives that has been generated (as they’ve been mentioned twice now).
The repubs fire up their base and listen to them. They give them what they want: The Dems ignore their base, take them for granted and give them nothing.
If this does not change a third party challenge is inevitable. The problem is setting up a third party within our present corporate system will not be easy. However, how long can people remain working within the confines of the democratic party if nothing changes?
I agree. I’ve been drifting this way. But dang it. Something has to change. And if we don’t do it, who is going to. I love this place. I think the people here are special. I think our diverse talents make it a possibility that we might engineer an party that could succeed. So I’m saying let’s do it.
The repubs fire up their base and listen to them. They give them what they want: The Dems ignore their base, take them for granted and give them nothing.
I have to differ. I think the Dems do exactly what the republicans do…give their base exactly what it wants regardless of the cost to platform or country.
In fact, not only do they give the base the same gifts, they give it to the same base. The Haves, and the Have-Mores.
The Have-Less’s are to the Dems what the minorities are to the GOP – PR image bearers dragged on stage when the red light on the camera comes on, and then returned to janitorial duties immediately it goes off.
Our Platform:
Energy Security* Now.
The People are the Government.
The Country before Party.
The Constitution above all else.
——–
*David Gergen, of all people, coined this phrase on the News Hour tonight. It’s crucial.
——–
PS All the ordinary people I know said the Democratic Party was dead last November. If they couldn’t fight for the peoples’ own votes…
Fuck yeah. The beginnings of a party platform. One that our representatives will actually support with their votes, instead of just paying lip service to it on the campaign trail.
Hey, have you ever formed a list or agenda of what basic principles or platform perspectives might be seen as a basis? We all seem to be scattered on a few critical basic understandings, like the integrity of the ‘official’ 9/11 stpry.
The People are the Government.
The Government is only your enemy when you don’t take part in it.
The Liberty Party will demand, on behalf of The People, a full, open and complete investigation into the events of 9/11 and Their Government’s preparation for, and defense against, the worst terrorist attack on Americans’* soil.
You pay for government; you own it.
The People’s Government should pay for The People’s investigation.
The Government is only as big as what you want from it.
The Liberty Party wants a Defense Department that can defend the country, before one that can attack others unilaterally. If wargames and exercises distracted from the actual defense of the Nation, then Defense Department priorities must be changed.
The Constitution says that all unenumerated rights are yours, The People’s.
All of the above are the absolute Right of The People. No branch of government may quash, secrete, nor deter such investigation on behalf of The People.
The Declaration of Independence says those rights are inalienable.
No branch of Government can deny The People satisfaction in this matter.
Lincoln said, “A Government OF The People, BY The People and FOR The People –shall not perish from this earth.”
Any denial of the above, is, by definition, against The People, and therefore un-American, and the Liberty Party will resist it with every resource at its disposal.
*Note: Americans’ soil, not America’s.
Exactly! We are not only a country divided but a party divided. One of the biggest complaints(other than the way dems vote/have no backbone, which is true of almost half of them) is that they do not have a clear, consise message/agenda. If we are to start another party that would be, for me the starting point.
I also think there are not only disenfranchised dems but repubs to that are more libertarian than conservative that don’t like what the republican party has become that might be attracted to a third party at this point in history.
At this point, I am not ruling out any alternatives to what we are experiencing right now, this dismantling of our once great nation. I want to thank each of you for all your points of view. You make me think, feel and believe that there is still hope to clean up this mess of a nation for our children and grandchildren. We can either allow ourselves to remain “victims” of this system that is failing us ot heroes that saved the country from fascism. I choose to stay and fight another day with or without the help of the Dems that are now in the Houses.
You know, I’ve never understood the “struggle” over the message of the center-left to get the center’s attention (in this country, the ‘radical-left’ to get the ‘far-left’ ‘s attention). It all seems pretty ‘moderate’ to me:
Energy Security Now.
Don’t want terrorism? Disengage from terrorist areas.
How to disengage? Energy independence.
How to become independent? Develop uniquely American energy sources.
Like the Alaskan wilderness? No. Like technological know-how. And independent entrepreneurial thinking. And good old-fashioned American elbow grease.
———-
The People are the Government.
The Government is only your enemy when you don’t take part in it.
You pay for government; you own it.
The Government is only as big as what you want from it.
The Constitution says that all unenumerated rights are yours, The People’s.
The Declaration of Independence says those rights are inalienable.
Lincoln said, “A Government OF The People, BY The People and FOR The People –shall not perish from this earth.”
———
The Country before Party.
Not our Party; and certainly NOT your Party.
NO Political Party is more important than the Nation Itself.
That Nation is defined by the Constitution of the United States of America.
———
The Constitution above all else.
We are a Nation of Laws, not men.
No man is above the law.
We were founded in opposition to Tyranny, and we will never tolerate it; neither here nor abroad.
We were founded in opposition to Empire, and we will not tolerate it, not here, not elsewhere.
No branch of Government may usurp the powers of another: Neither the Courts nor the Executive may make law; neither the Congress, nor the Courts may interperet law; neither the Congress nor the Courts may execute the law.
———
I’ve traveled the country from Left to Right and from East to West, and I have yet to find a common-sense American who would disagree with any of this.
Yet neither major party addresses any of it.
Something I wrote last October:
******
For more years than I would want to count at this point in my life I have been questioning the direction and purpose of the Democrat party. I’ve made no secret of my general uneasiness within what has become of the Dems whose leadership has generally underwhelmed me over the last quarter century. Truth is I really don’t fit in with a party that seems to favor its corporate cronies over its purported commitment to basic progressive and populist values and policies. The GOP was never and will never be an alternative for me. The unholy alliance of theocons and neocons is one with which I simply would never wish to associate. Genocidal wars, draconian laws that decimate the letter and spirit of The Bill of Rights, looting the nation’s treasury and generally pissing away the nation’s future for the sake of feathering a few cronies’ nests under the aegis of God and Country are the halmarks of the GOP. The best I’ve been able to say about the Dems is that they are “less bad.”
The question that I can never leave far behind is this: “is less bad good enough?” When lives and quality of life are at stake, the answer is no. As of late I have given the words of the late Malcom X a fresh read, and I have a couple observations. One is that in many respects, when we’re talking about civil rights and human rights in America things really haven’t changed much since Malcom’s day. The images from the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina of the dire poverty that has consigned so many of our fellow Americans to a lifetime of marginal existence (what the Marxists would call the lumpenproletariat) and neglect by the very government that is supposed to serve them, will haunt me for as long as I can still draw a breath. Those images should haunt all of us. The specter of racism and classism continues to plague our political and social landscape, just as it has all of my life. The second observation: politicians from one party or another haved talked a good game when it comes to promoting progressive ideas and policies – but with few exceptions they don’t walk the talk. That was a problem that Malcom confronted with the issues that were salient to him, and is a problem that we on the left continue to confront. The Dems have assumed for so long that they have the leftists, the women, the ethnic minorities in their back pockets because presumably we have “nowhere else to go.” The result is, as it was in the 1950s and 1960s, a not-so-benign neglect of our issues and values from the powers that be. And as long as we keep registering Democrat and periodically show up to vote when expected, nothing changes, except maybe for the worse. We have a party where its members say the right things more often than not, but then by and large approve laws like The Patriot Act, the bankruptcy bill that will end up burying working families who’ve encountered exhorbitant medical expenses; they’ve been silent when the White House nominated an architect of the current pro-torture policy to the office of AG; when it comes to the illegal war being fought against the Iraqis, many of the Dems want to send more troops and kill of even more people; they’ve been largely silent on the issue of voting irregularities both in Ohio and Florida; and we know that privacy rights are also no longer sacred in Dem circles.
What to do? In Malcom’s last year on this planet he offered up some simple advice that I think we can all use: be organized, and don’t affiliate with either the Dems or the GOP. That’s the general idea behind American Solidarity: organize physically, financially, intellectually. Many of us come from varying backgrounds and have varying pet causes, but let’s face it – those of us who are living paycheck to paycheck, those of us who value liberty, who value equality, who value justice, who value privacy have a hell of a lot in common. Technological advances in the last decade or so make it easier for us to coordinate and to exchange ideas and information than ever before. It’s way past time to start using those tools to our advantage. Blogs are one of our tools, playing the same role that zines played in the 1980s and pamphlets such as Paine’s played during the Revolution some 230 years ago. Blogging is only part of that picture. Cernig fills in some of the details elsewhere. Clearly, unions, thinktanks, civil liberties organizations are going to be salient as well.
Being unaffiliated with the major political parties is also crucial for an American Solidarity movement. The GOP can be written off as a lost cause. The Dems, I’m also skeptical of, but will note this much: if they think we’re registered as Dems, they can assume that we’ll continue to accept the status quo. Malcom was onto something back in 1964 and 1965 when he advocated refusing to back any candidate until it was clear that they were willing to walk their talk. If they turn out to be kosher, then by all means support them, but only to the extent that they are representing us. If they stop representing us, we should be willing to walk away from them. If they know that their constituents mean business, they’ll be more careful to represent us in whatever legislative body they hold office. There’s strength in numbers, especially when those numbers are independent.
Underlying all of this is the assumption that you’re registered and that you vote. If you are making less than 35k a year, and/or if you’re an ethnic minority, and/or you’re a relatively young voter (say 18-25 years of age) you are under-represented when it comes to actual voters come election day. You need to register (ideally independent) and you need to educate yourself on the candidates and issues, and you need to vote – and not only those major elections, but also on the local elections. The percentage of eligible voters who actually do vote is pathetic when compared to other relatively democratic industrialized nations. Understandably, a lot of that is due to the pathetic array of choices we get offered by the major parties; we as citizens too bear some responsibility with regard to voter turnout and need to take that responsibility personally. Becoming an informed voter is going to require some effort, but hardly an insurmountable effort. Newspapers across the globe are available over the internet (I’m a big fan of The Guardian and The Independent – both from the UK, but there are certainly others worth visiting). There are a number of well-informed bloggers that you should make an effort to check out on a regular basis. Keep up with the local newspapers and bloggers. If you don’t have a computer at home, go to your nearest library to access these resources. If you have access to these resources, take some responsibility for educating your friends and neighbors.
Making meaningful social change happen in America will not happen overnight, and will be truly a community effort in which each of us must play an active role. In other words, it’s time to stand up.
We could use ANOTHER Malcolm…black, white or otherwise, male or female…right now.
But I do not see one.
Do you?
Great movements coalesce around one figure like a supersaturated solution crystallizes around a single crystal.
We already HAVE the basis for a great movement. The millions of us who are unhappy with BOTH parties and the with onrushing Corporate States of America.
Who will lead us?
AG
I don’t see one either…but I keep my eyes peeled. Who knows, maybe the next Malcom is reading this blog.
When the people are ready, a new Malcolm or Martin…
…or Fannie Lou or Rosa or Coretta…
…will emerge.
Not a minute before.
And borrowing from Fannie Lou Hamer–there has to be a critical mass of people “who are sick and tired of being sick and tired.”
Work like a dog
Is better than sitting
Like a bump on a log
Mind all your manners
Be quiet as a mouse
Some day you’ll own a home
That’s as big as a house
I know a fella
He eats like a horse
Knocks his old balls
Round the old golf course
You oughta see his wife
She’s a cute little dish
She smokes like a chimney
And drinks like a fish
There’s a big old goofy man
Dancing with a big old goofy girl
Ooh baby
It’s a big old goofy world
Now elvis had a woman
With a head like a rock
I wished I had a woman
That made my knees knock
She’d sing like an angel
And eat like a bird
And if I wrote a song
She’d know ever single word
Kiss a little baby
Give the world a smile
If you take an inch
Give ’em back a mile
Cause if you lie like a rug
And you don’t give a damn
You’re never gonna be
As happy as a clam
So I’m sitting in a hotel
Trying to write a song
My head is just as empty
As the day is long
Why it’s clear as a bell
I should have gone to school
I’d be wise as an owl
Stead of stubborn as a mule.
Boo…you really oughta credit poets.
John Prine wrote that, I believe.
Do y’all realize that America has the greatest tradition of spoken and sung poetry ever produced by one culture?
Yup.
ONE sign of a deep underlying health that perhaps no group of blown-up-big petty thieves will ever be able to undermine.
AG
There are quite a few cultures who have traditions of spoken and sung poetry going back millennia who might take issue with your assertion that US has the greatest tradition of it 🙂
Or maybe you were referring to Native Americans?
Poerhaps I should have said “One of the greatest.”
What I was referring to by that statement is the American popular song/blues/country/latin tradition. It is HUGE.
And it is deep as well.
I know of NO other culture that has produced that kind of work on that level. It has reached out and altered the cultures of almost every nation on earth. ESPECIALLY those of Europe and Japan. South/Central/Caribbean America as well. A HUGE force in the world culture.
This actually happened mostly post-Civil War. In LESS than 200 years. And it has accelerated exponentially ever since it started. At least until the Corporate/PermaGov axis succeeded in taking over the media which so successfully propagated that culture and Britney Speared it into a tranced-out coma.
Mostly.
We ought to honor our lyricists as we honor our poets.
More.
I mean…how many people have really been moved to change by T.S. Eliot?
And how many by Bob Dylan?
No contest.
Is Dylan thus “greater” than Eliot?
No…just more effective.
They are the real voice of American democracy, and long may they sing.
AG
We ought to honor our lyricists as we honor our poets.
You joke, yes? At least most Americans can name a living lyricist.
The poets . . . a foreign poet once remarked to Allen Ginsberg that US poets didn’t ahve to worry about repression & jail like in so many other countries … where their words were taken seriosuly. Here, one can write anything one wants — it’s simply marginalized & ignored.
There is a very small number of mainstream poets who are reasonably well-known. But as to the vital, edgy living art — well, that’s why I’ve been posting poems by Robert Duncan, Jack Spicer, Joanne Kyger & HD. More to come ’til someone tells me to knock it off.
Bcak on topic — I have a dream that the republican & democratic parties finally implode & we see an explosion of parties. A strong green party, an orange party, a purple one, let’s get the whole freakin’ rainbow of America’s political beliefs represented & competing with each other, rahter than be asked to make a pathetic loser’s choice between A or B.
My point exactly.
It is the LYRICISTS who have had real impact.
There is a species of musician who plays only for other musicians. No one else is interested. Virtuosi on their instrument, and that’s about all. “Adventurous” composers whose work has no soul whatsoever.
Etcetera.
And then there are the heavies.
Same same.
AG
Who will lead us? Or ought not we stop standing around like sheep and open the gate ourselves?
Somehow, consistently throughout the entire history on humankind, a leader has always been necessary for the success of ANY mass movement.
I predict that this principle will continue to hold true.
AG
Excellent bit. I think. Didn’t have a chance to read it (or see it) the first time around. Always wanted to say that I liked your e-mail, when I see you post. I’m assuming it is a Vonnegut refrence of some sort?
I’m done. Woke up this morning. Realized that for me, at least, this was more than a rant.
Peace and Freedom Party Platform
There ideas look very good. I knew all these other parties are already out there. Maybe, instead of invention our own, we should pick one to flock to and take over?
On the one hand, you don’t need to reinvent the wheel, on the other hand, Peace and Freedom would be delighted to have you. 🙂
One thought might be to gain support in organizing the various groups who are already in the same position, without adequate representation. A Liberty Coalition could incorporate the interests of many and still be concentrated enough on core issues to be effective.
And the idea is good, there are other parties in US, but they are small. If you put them all together, and add those who have accepted that they are not part of the Democratic Party’s “base,” you might have yourself something…..
Most people avoid the small third parties because the scope of interest is so narrow that it borders on exclusion. Gathering the smaller ones into a larger, organized group would enable focus on the main issue agreements and still allow diversity in specific interests.
The Green’s scope of interests is pretty wide and I’d say pretty close to what most, if not all here stand for.
Take a look.
Ten Key Values
Thanks for the link. That’s the first time I’ve seen the principles stated like that and I noticed it’s all the same as I’ve been talking about. I may have been guilty of not looking close enough before. I have never been anti-Green but maybe a creeping party-paranoia nudged me away from checking them out.
Howard Dean just finished setting up a nationwide takeover system that, it seems to me, was specifically intended to be used to take over the Democratic party.
That’s exactly how the taliban took over the Republicans. The taliban couldn’t get serious media time, weren’t represented in academia, and didn’t have the money to go around buying 6-packs of Senators. So they set about replacing the Republicans from the bottom up.
Part of the reason they continued to succeed was that they shared enough of their goals–replacing the government and the economy of the people with authoritarian aristocracy–with the corporatist power structure, that they had a natural working partnership.
Well, same for us. The Democratic party establishment shares one huge value of ours: the use of government as a check and as a compliment to the private economy, specifically as a social safety net and guardian of rights and opportunities.
I think there are many established democrats who would go with our flow, if the flow coming from the bottom up were increasingly people-oriented. I don’t care if our leaders try to stay at the front of our parade by marching backwards. And I don’t think all of them necessarily care whether they’re favoring the people or the corporations so long as they have a system they know how to use to win and hold office.
Replace many, convert some, and we have a national party.
Thanks! Yep, the email addy is a reference to my favorite Vonnegut book, “Cat’s Cradle.”
I love this, James. American Solidarity – We’re supposed to be all about unity, and if you look around we really are. How many people don’t vote because its meaningless to their lives, how many just enjoy the gladiator aspect of us vs them instead of the service aspect? Look at the people who just picked up and went to New Orleans to help while the government tried to hold them back. Al Gore took a plane and rescued some hospital patients – acting as a human being, not as a democrat. We do have human leaders who are ignored or belittled by the media. Presidential politics is nothing but showbiz and that’s what gets the attention. I think Al knows what he’s doing – starting a media outlet; and his MLK day speech was the catalyst for the Alito fight.
I really like all the ideas here, but something popped into my head that I think is worth sharing.
If this latest debacle by the democrats is the impetus behind forming a new movement / party / group / whatever, then I think that is good. The democrats clearly have failed to speak and stand up for us.
However, reading a lot of comments and articles on the blogosphere, I fear that this new movement may take on the shape of “Who are we? Well, we’re sure as *!@&%$ NOT democrats!”.
Which is of course just a further extension of the democrats being ‘not republicans’. And we’ve all seen how successful that platform has been.
So let’s not be ‘not democrats’. Let’s not be ‘not republicans’.
Let us be the peacemakers and the planners for a better tomorrow. Let us throw the concepts of ‘political gain’ and ‘poll friendly’ out the window, in favor of lifting the hearts, minds and spirits of our fellow men and women.
And from there, political viability will flow; it does not flow the other way.
“Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me.
I lift my lamp beside the golden door.”
</soapbox>
Excellent observation! Glad you took the time to post it.
How about Citizen Alliance? It’s sort of like Liberty Coalition (above), but a bit easier on the tongue, and it has the more concrete, action-focused image of ‘citizen’ as opposed to the abstract (and easily confused with libertarian) word ‘liberty.’
That’s a good one.
Brainstorming lifts the spirit to see more. I’m tired of feeling hopeless for the future. This is a nice change.
or maybe Civic Alliance? even easier to say. And it translates well into Spanish–Alianza Cívica.
It could more of a movement than a party, encompassing progressives, Greens, Independents, even moderate Republicans. People who want energy security, environmental protection, fiscal responsibility, health care, education and good goverance.
It could function sort of like the League of Women Voters, by giving a stamp of approval to outstanding candidates at every level. Organized locally, like Democracy for America, but NOT shackled to the Democratic Party.
The other thing to remember about that squeaky little guy is that he, perhaps more than anything else, is responsible for the Republican party’s current message discipline and appreciation of it’s base. Many Republicans blame him for losing the 1992 and 1996 elections. But unlike Nader, he actually drew a substantial portion of the vote. This meant that the Republican party actually got scared enough to listen to its base, and start enforcing message discipline so that they could start competing on equal turf with a single guy.
You need not rant further, it is time. And it will take time, as you say. This black/white/us/them is getting old. Change is healthy and a third major party would make change more frequent. (Career politicians, ughh!) The name? The Party For Change.
I must say I disagree with you. We have a much better chance of taking over the Democratic Party than we do of starting a new party for ourselves.
A party takes a long time. A national party is an enormous undertaking. It takes time, work, and patience.
So quit bellyaching and get back to work!
Not really. At this point, the “Democratic party” brand is hopelessly diluted. These Senators have made it clear, vote after vote, that the Democratic party stands for nothing but their re-election campaigns. Anyone attempting to fix that has to fight an uphill battle against this brand dillution; anyone starting a new party gets to define their brand from scratch.
I kind of flew off the handle yesterday in your diary at Daily Kos. Thanks for backing me up. I need a blog.break.
I like what you’re saying. I just don’t think it’s remotely realistic. I’m going to continue to bang my head against the Democratic Party until I leave a mark.
Glad to see you here. Don’t worry about what happened at dKos. I appreciate you watching my back. Meant what I said about being in the trenches with you. Don’t take too long a break. We need you.