It shouldn’t, but it does.
You want to help stop the raping and abuse of women and children quit ALLOWING the term liberal as part of our vocabulary. Like wearing suggestive clothing, being liberal gives out MIXED MESSAGES.
We can’t have it both ways and expect anything to get better, especially for women and children, not these days anyways.
I am not a god freak, I basically believe that what two consenting adults want to do is fine. I believe in freedom, but not at the expense of someone else. Everytime we spout give us our liberties we need to understand just what those liberties are. Because one man’s liberty will take yours away.
The rape diaries have stirred so many bad memories up for me and I am angry. I am full of compassion for my sisters who have been scarred. I am angry at the men who think we are only here as eye-candy or for their entertainment.
We as a group have not practiced what we preach. When we allow our daughters to be exploited by sexy dress so they can be popular without the warnings that go with those clothes, shame on us. We as a group do not practice what we preach if we support exploitive reality shows and live vicariously through the exploitation and pain of other women. Shame on us. We as a group have not practice what we preach if we allow the men in our lives to bring porn into the homes. Shame on us. We do not practice what we preach if we say we like soft porn etc. and watch semi-rape take place for our enjoyment. Shame on us. We cannot have it both ways.
Educate your daughters and sons. And practice what you preach for gods sakes. And that goes with drugs and alcohol. Sick people do sick things whether they ‘meant’ to or not.
Accountability and responsibility people. And we can do it without hiding behind God and the Bible for christ’s sakes.
These are choices not freedoms. And until we get the talk correct nothing will ever change.
Some of what is going on on the other side I agree with. Like Labeling movies and games. Putting blocks on TV and computers to protect the children.
I wish someone had practice what they preached when I was young and a catholic. The stories I could tell..
One example I will share. When I met my husband I did not know he was an alcoholic. I did not know he was into porn. We married, moved in and ALL Hell broke loose.
To make a long story short- he is sober now for 18 months (after jail time etc.) And he does not dare look at porn in this house. The way I handled that is “How would you like piggy old men looking at your daughter like that? All of those girls are someone’s daughter.” And we talked and talked and he finally (I think-got it) But drinking/drugs and rape and porn all go together.
Bad choices, not freedoms. Please let’s start thinking better about what we stand for. We will only be free if we make the right choices. We must stop confusing freedom with liberal speak.
No means No! I want that freedom to say No! So education of the word No may be a good place to start. Again. You just cannot say NO you must keep explaining why NO. My parents said NO a lot, but they never explained why. And I was raped, abused beaten threatened, sexually harassed many many times. It took a long time for me to understand what NO meant and why it fell on deaf ears. Now I know and my daughter knows also. I even think my husband, finally at 58, knows now also.
Woman is the nigger of
the world
Yes she is…think about it
Woman is the nigger of
the world
Think about it…do
something about it
We make her paint her
face and dance
If she won’t be slave ,we
say that she don’t love us
If she’s real, we say she’s
trying to be a man
While putting her down we
pretend that she is above us
Woman is the nigger of
the world…yes she is
If you don’t believe me take a
look at the one you’re with
Woman is the slaves of
the slaves
Ah yeah…better scream
about it
We make her bear and raise
our children
And then we leave her flat for
being a fat old mother hen
We tell her home is the only
place she would be
Then we complain that she’s
too unworldly to be our friend
Woman is the nigger of
the world…yes she is
If you don’t belive me take a
look at the one you’re with
Woman is the slaves of
the slaves
Yeah (think about it)
We insult her everyday on TV
And wonder why she has no
guts or confidence
When she’s young we kill her
will to be free
While telling her not to be so
smart we put her down for being so dumb
Woman is the nigger of
the world…yes she is
If you don’t believe me take a
look at the one you’re with
Woman is the slaves of
the slaves
Yes she is…if you believe me,
you better scream about it.
Oops, Rosee – I meant to say “no man” not nobody, and thanks for writing this.
Yes, thank you, Rosee.
I see so much hypocrisy on both sides of the aisle. I honestly am not sure what I am anymore.
All I know bad, wrong choices are bad and wrong. We must choose better as human beings.
But I don’t know how one does that politically anymore.
Thanks for the diary Rosee. Finding a balance between allowing freedoms and then getting people to make sensible choices is tough. Just because you CAN do something doesn’t mean that you should. And keeping that in mind when educating sons and daughters is so important I think.
Reading all of those diaries last week, I wanted to call up my parents and thank them for embarrassing me SO much when I was young and NOT letting me do everything I wanted to do. They managed to find the balance that allowed me to spread my wings and discover my true self, while at the same time protecting me as best they could from those that would prey on me. And where they couldn’t protect me they tried to give me as many tools as possible to allow me to protect myself. That, and a lot of luck, means none of those bad things ever happened to me.
I think that thinking about the ideas you raise is an important part of changing the culture that allows these terrible things to happen to children of both sexes and to women throughout their lives.
I brought up my daughter similar, I think, that your parents did. I was a great example as to why one doesn’t do some things. When I said no to her I always gave her both sides with personal examples of the ramifications of bad choices.
My parents never explained anything. Kids need to know the why of Nos. I learned everything the hard way because most of the time I didn’t know why my parents said ‘no’ to something that didn’t seem all that bad to me. Well, needless to say, being a curious kid I found out one way or another. And that is bad for both girls and boys.
It has to begin with the parents. And how many ‘bad parents’ stories have we all heard of?
scar free:-)
In my opinion, women are the best determiners of what they will or will not wear.
Any woman, whether she is 14 or 140, should be able to dress herself as she pleases, whether that means covered from head to toe, or symbolically covered in the latest Lindsay-Britney style slutwear.
And she should not have to worry that her clothing choices will limit where she can go, what she can do, and certainly not make her more vulnerable to violent crime.
At the same time, I think you are right that mothers should educate their daughters that this is one of those cases where should and is are distant cousins who rarely speak and barely know each other.
The fact is, that while women have, at least in theory, the right to wear what they wish, no clothing police are going to come and hit them with camel whips or put them in prison because of what they are wearing, unless of course, what they are wearing violates the law. Their clothing must at least minimally conform to western cultural norms in that it must cover at least some of the bosom, derriere, etc. If it does not, they may not be hit with camel whips, but they will be taken to prison.
Another fact is that women, and even young teen girls, do increase their risk for being crime victims if their clothing is very tight or revealing. And if they are the victim of a violent crime, and brave enough to report it, at some point, someone will ask them “what were you wearing?” as if that justified or lessened the crime in some way.
That needs to change. It is a cultural more that both men and women must work to change.
But in the meantime, parents are in a most unpleasant position. How do you teach a young girl that her value is in who she is, her intelligence, her kind heart, her noble character, that she can be and do whatever she wants to be, but wear a short skirt and a skimpy top to a nightclub and you increase your chances of being assaulted because that world we just told you is your oyster will consider you fair game if you pull the wrong items out of your closet?
Society should not dictate what a woman should wear. But a mother most defintely should be able to tell her 14 year old daughter what she can and cannot wear. No matter how angry that daughter gets. No matter what the other kids are wearing. No matter what other parents allow.
My daughter was a pre-teen during Madonna’s reign, so I know about the clothing issue. I let her express herself, but I told her what she could expect from ‘asshole’ men. She came home telling me about some old man whistling at her and I’d ask her how did that make her feel. She didn’t like it and then I asked do you think the way you dressed might be why the old men whistles and she didn’t know. So we would watch MTV together and when the opportunity arose we’d talk about dress and actions and eventually she saw the connection. She then began to adapt her way and toned down considerably.
We talked about popularity peer pressure etc. She wanted to be a model. We did the portfolio. She was in a few fasion shows. At one point (as a 17 yr old, she was asked to kodel lingerie at a night club. She refused to do that and it all clicked for her and she quickly lost that interest. She saw what it really was-exploitation.
I didn’t forbid her, I know the value of touching the hot burner, but sh edid figure it out. She is a very successful, adult woman and I may be biased, but I know I did my job.
Sounds like you handled it in a good way. My only point is that it is YOUR right as a parent to determine how to deal with how your daughter dresses. Society doesn’t have a right; but a parent has a right.
possibly even remember from her own teen days, that as soon as she gets out of her mother’s sight, the clothing mother permitted may go into the bag, and the clothing the daughter prefers may go on the daughter.
But this is an issue that goes beyond parental authority. To protect their daughters, it is not enough simply to forbid showing the mid riff or wearing short skirts. Even if the desired clothing is not purchased, the girls will tie the shirts to uncover the mid riff and roll the skirts up. I may be old but I know about these things.
Yes, the girls should obey their parents. But they do not, and the punishment for disobeying mother about one’s clothing should not be rape.
But the chances of rape increase if she does not obey mother, so I am saying in addition to “I said so,” mother also has the sad task of telling her that she puts herself in danger.
Even as she teaches her that she is not a second class citizen, she must also teach her that she is.
Rape is never a punishment for disobeying one’s parents and should never be referred to as a punishment. It is a crime.
And regardless of mother-daughter disagreements about wardrobe, no girl should be at increased risk for being a victim of that crime because of what she is wearing.
Yet she is.
Obviously, this is something that needs to change, but in the meantime, mothers – and fathers – must make sure that their daughters understand that even though it is wrong, certain clothing does increase her risk of being a victim.
Yet this is in conflict with the message that most parents want to impart to their daughters, that they are not objects, but valuable human beings with the potential and the freedom to choose their own path.
Another fact is that women, and even young teen girls, do increase their risk for being crime victims if their clothing is very tight or revealing. And if they are the victim of a violent crime, and brave enough to report it, at some point, someone will ask them “what were you wearing?” as if that justified or lessened the crime in some way.
I wonder if that is actually true, or a received piece of ‘wisdom.’ I really don’t know. We all have enough anecdotal evidence that skimpy clothes will expose women to all sorts of rude remarks. I guess I’m just wondering how much actual correlation there is of skimpy dressers being physically attacked, esp. since statistics I’ve seen suggest that most rapists know their victim. Rape is so often a crime of opportunity, of violence & power issues, that a sexy dress or short skirt don’t seem to be all that likely to be the causative agent.
I also wonder if repeating this piece of ‘wisdom’ doesn’t somehow make it all the more likely that when a woman does report a rape, that she will be asked what she was wearing. In that light, it might be more important to try to dismantle that connection in our discussions of the subject.
in some of the courageous accounts by ladies who have been victims.
It is a reality that is wrong, and should not be, but it is.
I think the plight of parents of daughters of any ethnicity, is in some ways, similar to the challenges faced, sadly, even today, and even worse, in the days of apartheid, by parents of color.
One has the natural desire to give one’s children the gift of confidence, to instill self-love and self-esteem, but at the same time, it is necessary to be candid and forthright with them about the realities of the society in which they live.
Coretta Scott King used to tell the story of an amusement park, in Atlanta, where the family lived, and the pain of having to explain to her children, who would see advertisements for it, drive past it and see the (white) kids enjoying themselves, and the pain of having to explain to them why she could not take them, why they could not ride the rides, and play the games with the other children.
This is a moment that comes to every parent of color, although so many cosmetic changes have occurred, there is still that moment, when the real world hits, the reality of racism below the surface, when one has to find the words, make a way out of no way, to keep that child’s dream, his hope, his spirit, his self-love alive, while at the same time helping him confront the societal and cultural values of the mainstream society that threaten and oppose all those hopes, that self-esteem.
And until the culture changes regarding women, so must it be with the parents of daughters, to keep their hopes, their spirit, their independence and self-love alive, while not shirking from the necessity of telling them exactly what they risk if they go to the party wearing the revealing clothing they admire so much in the music video of their favorite dance tune.
…this clothing discussion in the late ’60s and early ’70s when the issue of “she was just asking for it” first started being deconstructed by the feminist movement. And yet, here we are, three and a half decades later, still discussing it because, in some ways, nothing has changed.
I appreciate your principled stand on these painful issues. I am deeply sorry for anyone who has suffered the assaults and violations of any kind.
I have avoided these diaries not out of a cold heart but because some of my opinions on the reactions to the problem would be too controversial.
As for the hypocracies, they hurt all of us in too many ways. A few who profit and exploit the trust of many continue to control the messages that are acceptable.
Hesitant to even comment here. I’m with you when the talk is about increasing education, males calling out other males’ misogynistic behaviour, etc. I’m all for teaching more about sexuality, esp. about sexual negotiation & CONSENT, which most adults in this country are shockingly incapable of. Friends who have worked at the SF Sex Info (SFSI) phone lines have tons of heartbreaking tales.
I get off the bus when porn is conflated with rape & sexual violence. Ed Meese, US Attorney General during the Reagan years, spent much time, dollars & resources trying to prove a connection & failed spectacularly. Yes, there is lots of objectionable, objectifying material out there, but dealing with the problem isn’t going to happen by attacking porn & driving sexuality further underground. I’d remind, as well, that respect for the First Amendment is only meaningful if one is willing to stand up for speech that one finds objectionable. I’ll reserve my right to watch whatever “sleazy” video I desire, & restricting my right to do so won’t make any woman in America safer.
So — the by way of protest to one small aspect of your post. More education about sexuality is desperately needed. As far as negotiating is concerned, one place to start is that largely silent one American teenage boys learn, that turns early attemtpts at intimacy into a game of grope scored on a baseball diamond.
Somehow the point of this diary is being missed- People see the word porn, like guns and immediately think TTHEIR rights are being attacked and dickered with.
What I said”I am not a god freak, I basically believe that what two consenting adults want to do is fine. I believe in freedom, but not at the expense of someone else. Everytime we spout give us our liberties we need to understand just what those liberties are. Because one man’s liberty will take yours away.
I think as liberals we are complacent on some issues and I think that needs to change. We turn a blind eye at the harm done to many for the freedom of a few.
After the past week’s rape etc., diaries, I see EDUCATION by parents to their sons and daughters is what’s needed.
God forbid I blame the media, money, bad politics, porn etc. on the fucked up state of our society.
I see too much bad and am tired of being complacent. And I am especially tired of grown-ups standing up for bad choices.
I’m agreeing with you about education.
I’ve done some teaching of my own: to ADULTS.
I’m “esp. tired of grown-ups” telling me I’m standing up for a “bad choice” based on specious, emotional logic & connections. Esp. coming from “liberals” who are standing in the choir with the fundamentalists in this country who do actively interfere with my life. Attempting to link porn to sexual violence only obfuscates the issues, and serves to divide people who otherwise would be naturally allied.
by several men. Damn it! as have many other women. Porn can be addictive to some which leads to expectations of rough sex-or worse and I am not saying that all porn is brutal or rough- some of it is down right funny, Not all men handle it as well as you do apparently. Can you agree with me on that?
But I won’t agree that it’s the porn’s fault, or that it’s the porn that someone needs to do something about.
Rough sex is one part of human sexuality. Not for everyone. Preventing its depiction, or viewing of such depictions, won’t make it go away.
Again, the answer has to lie in education, and again, specifically, in learning how to negotaite our sexual interactions with each other.
I wouldn’t blame the problems on husband’s porn; I’d blame the society that raised you both so that you could not, or were too uncomfortable, to have the sort of open communication that allows Informed Consent to take place. That allows him to say ‘I’d like to try this’ & for you to say ‘no way!’ & for that type of dynamic to become the NORM in our society.
I can definitely agree with this.”I wouldn’t blame the problems on husband’s porn; I’d blame the society that raised you both so that you could not, or were too uncomfortable, to have the sort of open communication that allows Informed Consent to take place. That allows him to say ‘I’d like to try this’ & for you to say ‘no way!’ & for that type of dynamic to become the NORM in our society.”
I can equate that with alcoholism. I don’t drink because my spouse is a recovering alcoholic, but sometimes I resent that we cannot just enjoy a drink at the end of the day. BUT it is out of respect that I don’t drink. If I didn’t care I’d have that beer or martini.
And again what two consenting adults agree on is fine with me. I rather enjoy being spanked. And so does he. But I still see porn as exploitation and in the wrong hands terribly harmful. I am not a prude. I have just grown up.
I’m active in the SF leather community, & sometimes do some teaching, where these issues of consent & negotiation are inescapable. It’s (almost) shocking how many people are ill-prepared to talk openly about sex, intimacy, and their own desires.
I wouldn’t even disagree that most porn shows exploitative dynamics. But I resent the hell out of the ‘holier-than-thou’ attitude expressed in “I have just grown up,” which is why I hesitate to even engage in these discussions. It’s just too closely aligned with the forces of sexual repression and in my analysis, it’s that fear & repression that most enable sexual violence & our silence around it. That attitude also closes the conversation.
There are right ways and wrong ways with all actions.
I was speaking for myself.
I have probably more experience under my ‘belt’ than most. Unfortunately many of the men were the immature beings and had no idea of the difference between freedom and just plain its a man’s world power. Men tend to ruin it for themselves at a woman’s expense.
love and trust in the picture. Sadly, the riding crops are getting dusty due to his prostrate problems LOL!
When you write:
And I am especially tired of grown-ups standing up for bad choices.
you are not talking about yourself, but judging others. As someone who was trying to respectfully disagree with the characterization of porn as a ahrmful problem, it’s hard to not read that sentence (online) in a personal light.
I generalize lots, sorry.
But the kicker about porn is many men who watch it are never satisfied- I cannot tell you how many men then wanted two women. Most can hardly satisfy one, why would they want to humiliate themselves with two?.. That is what really blows my mind. And then give them viagara and they become fucking idiots. LOL!
. . . for that.
Learning to negotiate (that word again! 🙂 the divide between fantasy & reality is another of those, umm, lacunae in our sexual educations.
Reading MB’s remarks below brought back a lot. I was never very good at being one of the boys as a kid. Going against the locker-room grain as an adult can bring on much more than askance looks.
Yes, more education about sex is needed.
Porn objectifies women. It displays us as a collection of interchangeable body parts instead of individual humans. It turns us into pieces of ass.
As long as we are portrayed as things to fuck, we have no chance at equality, freedom, safety or respect.
The very idea that men are entitled to these endless images of new, fresh young bodies so they don’t get bored whacking off, is repulsive and misogynistic.
Sex education, yup, that’s what we need, a little sex education.
Let’s start with this:
Sex isn’t something you do to a women.
Sex isn’t something you get from a woman.
Sex is mutuality. It’s something passionate that enthusiastic people do together for great pleasure in the closest, most profound intimacy possible.
Sex is not masturbating over someone’s photograph.
Sex is not paying, pressuring, tricking, weedling, or threatening a woman to let you masturbate inside her.
That’s called exploitation.
Thank you. Seems the discussion got stuck on porn. I got murdered at dkos so deleted the diary.
I don’t explain myself well.
Seems the discussion got stuck on porn
I don’t read at dkos, so don’t know what happened there. For myself, the linkage raises red flags & its right there in the title.
Those who would fight both exploitation & sexual repression are going to get “stuck” trying to unsort them.
Here’s an article about Pat Califia, that recognizes “[h]er work raises a central question for leftists: Does the goal of sexual liberation conflict with our goal of eliminating exploitation?”
. . . (now Patrick) is one of my favorite pronographers, sex educator, & overall human being.
I can’t think of a better response to your rant than the close to an article that she wrote back in 1986:
Feminists who hate porn do not hate sex. We hate exploitation. We hate the degradation of the greatest, most pleasurable connection people can share. We hate seeing the dance of mutuality perverted by power over, because it reduces women to things that get fucked instead of participants in deep, spirutual love making.
Porn’s definition of sex is a cheap, ugly counterfeit that makes mutual sexual love more and more difficult.
Don’t confuse those of us who find sexuality too beautiful and important to be trashed with folks who think it’s dirty. I hate porn because I have more respect for sex, not less.
that that characterization of porn isn’t shared by all all feminists, and that it is aligned with & used by repressive McCarthy-like forces. Please read the two articles I’ve linked to — her critique is more nuanced than you might think. The Dworkin critique has historically led to repressive laws in Canada that wind up hurting sexual minorities the most.
I will not give porn my blessing just because repressive McCarthyites have their own, sick, sex-hating reasons for opposing it. They see sex as filth, and don’t want it shown. I see sex as beautiful, and don’t want it degraded by portraying it as filth. If that simply were a matter of personal taste, it would be none of my business, but depicting women as acquiecent body parts hurts all women, everywhere.
I don’t believe that porn helps us to embrace joyous, celebratory love making. It plays into the prejudice that sex is dirty by portraying it in a way that is cold, impersonal, anonymous, exploitive and often hurtful.
I think we both want the same thing, Arcturus: truly free, loving, pleasurable, mutual, shameless sex that is held in the highest place of beauty, honour and importance. I’m guessing that you believe porn will get us there, but I think it’s making things much, much worse, and leading in the wrong direction.
I understand intolerance.
I understand (& know) where intolerance leads.
I understand what the shame shame theme here doess to living people.
Please do not put stupid words in my mouth (“believe porn will get us there”) or in Pat’s. If you read closely, the disagreement is over how we get there.
I agree that the disagreement is over how we get there: that’s what I said.
We seem to be arguing at cross purposes.
And what words did I put in your mouth ? You seem to believe that having porn is a better way to stamp out shame and intolerance than not having porn. I thought that was the gist of your argument. Perhaps I don’t understand. Maybe you are celebrating erotica, and you’re just as unhappy with violent, degrading, woman-haating pornography as I am. I’m really trying to understand here.
I’m not willing to proscribe what’s acceptable & what’s not. Nor am I happy to allow you or the gov’t to do so.
Everytime you’ve ‘guessed’ at what I’m saying, it’s sounds like sarcastic caricature. I’d refer you back to the 2nd para of Pat’s article quoted above for a good idea of what I believe. This is an old debate; I’m pretty familiar with the anti-porn argument, but don’t see an awareness here of the opposing POV. Pat’s article, or something by Carol Queen, would be a good place to start.
Blaming porn for sexual violence becomes a distraction. Acting on it does more harm than good.
Whatever one feels about the content, I support Rob Black & Extreme Associates against the DoJ prosecution in PA. Like I wrote earlier, support for the 1st Amendment is meaningless if not applied to speech one objects to.
Those of us who have suffered as a result of the hateful attitudes toward women depicted in porn have good reason believe it does great harm. You will not convince us that it doesn’t depict and condone violence toward women, because we can see it.
If you won’t want to believe it does harm, you don’t have to, but you can’t expect women who have been raped, beaten and degraded to look at porn showing women being raped, beaten and degraded, and call it harrmless.
Look, I don’t expect to convert anyone to my point of view. There is one being presented here as fact. I’ve tried to present the opposing POV, and to show where the anti-porn (& ultimately, anti-first amendmanet) stance leads. Historically, Dworkin et al’s work was used in drafting Canada’s laws.
There is a war on porn today, funded in the DoJ’s obscenity task force.
I don’t believe that repressing or censoring pornography will do one thing towards reducing sexual violence in our society, or changing rampant misogyny.
Ah, OK we’re on the same page now:
“I don’t believe that repressing or censoring pornography will do one thing towards reducing sexual violence in our society, or changing rampant misogyny.”
This is the nub of our disagreement. I DO believe that pornography reinforces the worst possible attitudes toward women, children, and GLBT by showing them as things to be used by dominant men.
We’ll have to agree to disagree.
. . . the divide we’re trying to talk across.
While I fully respect your right to your views, take a look at Pat’s writing if you’d like to try to understand why a queer activist lesbian (now transitioned to male) does NOT want to be saved by your kind of beliefs about porn, & why she believes those types of attitude have led to violence in her life.
I have read it, and it’s a red herring. The bigots who hate Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and Transgendered people will use anything they can to hurt you, and women who object to pornography are not their allies. If GLBT were represented erotically in a loving, accepting way that doesn’t shame or stigmatise anybody, I would be celebrating in the streets, just as I would for mixed gender sexuality that was free of sexism. The truth is that we’re both hard put to find much joyful erotisim in the sea of cruelty.
If there were as many white supremacistist as pornographers distributing photographs and film of lynching, whippings, beatings and rape, wouldn’t you expect people of colour to rise up and condemn it ?
I am not advocating the dissolution of the First Amendment. The pornographers or the KKK can leagally say what they like, and those who who support them will buy their materials and give them three cheers. Those who don’t like it, don’t buy it, and complain as loudly as we can.
Somehow I supspect you wouldn’t appreciate someone telling you the truths of your life experience were a red herring.
I’d agree that most porn today reinforces negative attitudes. Where we part is assigning blame on the porn. Blaming porn doesn’t teach young men how to talk about & negotiate sex. I’ll support your right to protest content & promote what you feel are more postive depictions. But assigning blame for sexual violence on porn all too quickly turns to action: solving the “problem,” & like I wrote originally, that conflation is where I get off the bus. Like it or not, anti-porn feminists are allied in the war on porn when it turns to action. Like it or not, material you may find objectionable may open up someone else & give them validation in ways you can’t begin to imagine & that certainly need not lead to criminal behavior. Who gets to decide?
This is difficult stuff to discuss, & I appreciate both you & rose for your willingness to engage with me on it.
Same here, Arcturus.
I wish you nothing but good in your life. I cannot imagine the struggle you you have waged and the difficulties you’ve overcome. But, damn, it’s made you strong ! Your arguments are powerful, and you don’t back down.
There are lots of battles we can fight together, and I’d be proud to stand shoulder to shoulder with you.
Didn’t mean to mislead (if I did). I’m just a kinky white het male, aware of the privileges, and whatever struggles I’ve suffered have been slight & largely self-inflicted. I have met Patrick, both before & after, & have nothing but the utmost admiration, even if I don’t agree with everything he has to say.
I’ve long been a 1st Amendment freak, very conscious of its on-going erosion and that porn is but one portion of that. And today, with the outright assault on so many of our rights — the Constitution itself — it feels kinda odd to don the mantle of Porn Defender today, but for me, it’s an old & heartfelt issue.
I’ve read enough of your comments at BT to know we do stand shoulder to shoulder on many issues. Know that this shoulder & ear can empathetically hear & understand your pain at viewing images that I myself, with a totally different frame, might well otherwise enjoy.
I don’t need to (or in fact, think) that feminists who hate porn hate sex; I know plenty of examples to the contrary. That doesn’t prevent me from recognizing that that hatred all too easily becomes a part of the oppposition to “the goal of sexual liberation” that has been hard fought & still has a long ways to go, nor from seeing it, in some ways, as a hindrance to the goals of eliminating exploitation, violence & hatred.
…(re)educated by feminists in the late 1960s – and got over being defensive about it – I frequently asked the question, what can men do? The best answer I got, repeatedly, was along the lines of “Educate other men. Call them out on their sexism, their condoning or engaging in violence.”
Any man who has tried this knows it can be difficult. Numerous times I’ve gotten “the look” when I’ve raised concerns about rape and other aspects of misogyny. That look hints at an unspoken: What are you, a traitor to your sex? When it comes to woman hatred, yes, I am. But being effectively persuasive sometimes requires couching my views in softer terms than I would prefer.
Men should, of course, educate their sons first and foremost. But that’s relatively easy, especially if started young. The hard part is working on adult men who have bought the cultural paradigm that saturates our media so thoroughly that many of the brightest people are unaware of it until it is pointed out to them in some depth. And even then, one often encounters an unlovely variant of “boys will be boys.”
“Any man who has tried this knows it can be difficult.”
Difficult, hell. It’s dangerous. When I as a women ask you to speak out against misogyny, I know I’m asking you to take risks as perilous as Freedom Summer. The only thing more threatening to male supremacy than an uppity female, is a gender traitor. Be prepared to have your orientaion questioned, because men who define their masculinity through the dominiation of women cannot imagine a “manly” man who doesn’t prey on, objectify, and look down on women.
days, and second hand, through descendants and their friends.
Men who respect and protect ladies, and not only refrain from harming them, preying on them, or considering them property or lesser beings, but who do not stand by when other men or boys do this, men who are not shy about praising a lady’s ability in sports, academics, or even, being, after all, men 🙂 her charm and beauty, but will neither engage in or permit to go unchallenged inappropriate remarks about her figure, personal life, etc, receive all the ostracism that you outline, and more.
But men who receive good education in the home have an advantage. As one young man told me, “I’m straight, but I could care less if somebody says I’m gay, like it’s some kind of insult. That’s just bogus.”
You are so wise.
Men of conscience who live their values face many challenges and threats. Through adversity, those righteous men develop a core of strength and self assurance that makes them stand tall, because they know who they are and what they’re made of. The taunting of the mob is threatening, but it cannot shake the inner confidence of such a man, because he has been tested, his dedication to justice, fairness and truth has won out.
Conversely, the hollow man who sways with the wind and mouths opinions not his own, day by day bleeds out his integrity and pride, waning weaker and weaker with every concession until there is no self-defined man there anymore. He is an empty vessel who has betrayed his loved ones and himself, and needs the mob to provide him an identity.
A father can model either kind of man and a thousand variants between them. The greatest gift he will ever give his sons is to be the best possible man.
I wish that you would share it more with earth residents. Write more diaries, please!
What you call “wise,” I call “old,” but I thank you anyway. I never turn down compliments, deserved or not 🙂