Ok, let me get my reservations out up front. As can readily be seen from my blog-moniker, I am someone whose self-identification is based on a period in my life of two years ten months and twenty-two days duration that ended some thirty-six years ago. So, yes, I have used the fact of being a Vietnam veteran to give myself some small amount of status in the blogoshpere; after all, “Leftvet” has a bit more potential cache that, say, “Leftout” or “Leftbank” or “Leftfield”. Perhaps what I like most is that what I have to say often presents a contrast to what most people expect to hear from veterans. Veterans in American society, after all, have traditionally played the role of cheerleaders for the next war. I, for one, have always refused to pick up the pompoms.
Make no mistake. It’s a fuckin hard balancing act, trying to maintain some sort of pride in your military service, even as you are criticizing the institution in which your service was rendered. And the fact is, on some level, I have NO real pride in having been a soldier – and all that it entailed. Being a soldier SUCKS. You give up your freedom, your individuality. You check your rights as an American citizen at the recruiter’s door. There is no place for softness, for sensitivity, for empathy. You are taught – some would say brainwashed – to be hard, cold, unfeeling — an unthinking, uncritical automaton who will do things without question that you would never think of doing as a civilian. You are taught to kill other human beings. You are given a whole science of murder and mayhem and violence, and you are rewarded – indeed HONORED – for being a skillful practitioner.
“What is the spirit of the Bayonet? To KILL.”
Yes, there is another side of being in the military, of being in war. Let’s be honest, it’s a fuckin rush, Jack. There is no feeling that I have ever experienced that comes close to being in combat. You are utterly terrified, each second that passes can perhaps be your last, you watch in horror as some around you experience that last second, and you feel so utterly, incredibly ALIVE as each of those potential last seconds passes. And you look down at your best friend, his brains splattered all over the ground (Scaramouche, Scaramouche, can you do the fandango?), and in that brief moment as his life terminates, you are glad – fuckin THRILLED – that it was him instead of you. Yeah, war is a rush, man, a great, guilty pleasure, the triumph of the id over the super-ego. It is the ultimate test of manhood. I stood (or laid) across from another man who tried to kill me, and I am here and he is not. I am a man. I killed, therefore I AM. The second thoughts come later, sometimes, or sometimes they do not come at all.
The pride I may feel now does not come from what I did, or had to do. It is bestowed on me by others, who somehow look up to me, think maybe I’m something special, because I was a soldier in war once upon a time. It comes from the fact that, as terrible and difficult and traumatic as that experience in war was, the person I am today – the person I am proud of being today – was formed by that experience. It comes from the fact that I have tried to use that experience as a tool to teach others, particularly youngsters, the things I learned the hard way. Not an easy lesson, always. I used to speak in high school classes as what we called a “counter-recruiter”. I thought I would just go in there, and tell them of the horrors of being in war, and that would convince them. Then I saw those eager young faces, lapping up everything I could dredge up from the depths of my soul, images of glory and honor and manhood dancing in their eyes, and I knew that “Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori” would probably win the day.
So where am I going with all this, beyond the jaded rantings of a faded warrior? It is this.
I have a bumper sticker on the back of my car “Honor the Warrior, not the War”. It’s produced by the organization Vietnam Veterans Against the War, and I pasted it on my car because it identifies me as an anti-war veteran. But now I have a question:
Why do we honor warriors? Specifically, why do we, as self-identified progressive Americans, honor warriors?
There was a diary on dkos a month or two ago, posted by soonergrunt, where he asked all the vets on dkos to identify themselves. I posted what amounted to my name, rank and serial number, and got something like fifty 4s. I know, what do 4s on dkos have to do with anything real (besides which, they no longer even exist)? But what is it about warriors or ex-warriors that deserves such unquestioning adulation? Why do we not honor teachers, or doctors, or EMTs, or research scientists, or musicians, or poets in the same way? Why warriors?
Certainly, having served in the military gives no one a monopoly on “The Truth”. On the contrary. Look at all the McCains and Hagels, and Sam Johnsons – that right wing buffoon from Texas with a few medals the Repugs put up to counter Murtha – out there. Where do the right-wing politicians go for a friendly audience for their latest militaristic adventure stories? Why, military and veteran audiences, of course. Actually, my stance as an anti-war veteran is made more special precisely because there are so few military or ex-military who would stand for the same things. I admit, a few times when arguing a point on a blog, I have tried to silence an adversary with the line, essentially “I am right because I was in the military, and you were not!” It is, of course, a bullshit argument. My point should always stand or fall on its own, and not be given any additional credibility based on how I spent three years of my youth. So, there it is. Even as I question the status my service has given me, I use it when it suits my purposes.
Yes, there are some outstanding individuals in the military. Sure, the ranks are filled with misguided patriotic youth, “ardent for some desperate glory” (hey, I was one, once), and economic draftees looking to learn a trade and escape the `hood. Sure, the Guard is packed with ordinary Joes and Janes, trying to make a few bucks to support that mortgage, or make that car payment, or save for that kid’s college. But there is also a plethora of careerists, boot-lickers, sadists, thugs, crooks, and mediocrities who populate this most reactionary of our national institutions. When I was in the Army, the highest praise – praise which was rather uncommon – heard for a “lifer” was “He could have made it on the outside.”
So why do we honor warriors? Is it not a reflection of the militaristic sub-text that has pervaded American life since WWII? Economic fortunes and political careers have been built on the myth of the great external threat. First communism, now terrorism. These “threats” keep us living in fear, unable to question, unable to offer an alternative point of view. If we are so “threatened”, of course, then we need protectors. The glorification of the military and the adulation of the warrior are part and parcel of the myth used to keep us in our place and keep the likes of George W. Bush in power.
But wait; it gets better. Here it is: the Royal Scam. Create the climate of fear, foster adulation for the warriors who “protect” us, then use them to rape the rest of the world, while we sit by and applaud their efforts.
Rape? Yes, a word that has been used a lot here recently. Does anyone question the connection between the macho, militaristic glorification of “the warrior”, and the treatment of women in our society? Do the two not flow from the same source? Rape is a crime of violence, of power, of subjugation. Is it any wonder that a society that so celebrates the cult of the warrior would not also be so tolerant of the rapists who walk among us?
And what of us progressives? How many of us feel compelled to preface any anti-war remarks with “Of course, I support the troops, but …”? Why? Because we have bought into the myth – the right-wing meme – that supporting the troops, honoring the warriors, is a fundamental component of patriotism, and one cannot “patriotically” oppose the war unless one also supports the troops. But how do you support the troops without supporting the mission they are undertaking? How do you honor the warriors, but not the war? And if, indeed, these cannot be separated – the troops from the mission, the warrior from the war – then why are we supporting and honoring those who are the instruments of the policies we oppose?
Oh, shit, he said it! I can hear the nervous-nellies already, the elect-democrats-and-everything-will-turn-out-all-right crowd, the don’t-say-anything-controversial-or-“they”-won’t-vote-for-us-in-November cabal. He said that Democrats shouldn’t support the troops. How are we ever gonna establish our Democratic bona-fides on national security with people saying things like that?
Well, I don’t really know the answer to that question, not, at least, in the frame in which it is asked. I frame it differently.
Is not the education of our children a matter of national security? Is not the health of our citizens a matter of national security? Is not the financial well-being of our nation a matter of national security? Which is the better expenditure of funds for national security, funds for education, health, and economic well-being, or funds for military hardware? Which is the better way to deal with national security issues, military force to bend other nations to our will, or diplomacy to solve issues cooperatively? Is national security only about guns and bombs and soldiers, or is it something more?
So what of “the troops”? Do we call them baby-killers and spit on them when they come home? Do we blame them for the failed policies of the government that sent them, as many did to the returning troops from Vietnam (I remember well the insinuation of the WWI vet at the VFW bar, “Well, we won OUR war.”)? Do we forget about them, and leave them to suffer in private with the physical and spiritual wounds they will come back with?
Of course we don’t. We show respect for the individuals who have earned it. We give assistance to those who need it. We work our butts off to get them out of harm’s way quickly, and we resolve that we will never sit by and allow them to be put in such a situation again.
A soldier’s job is tough, it’s brutal, it’s sometimes necessary.
Honorable? Frankly, I’m not so sure.
Thanks for this diary. Good to get a new point of view on these issues…..
I’m so glad you said it!
I’ve had similar thoughts, but as a civilian, its just absolutely unacceptable to state them in polite company.
Speaking of which, when did ‘hero’ become a synonym for “job I want someone else to do”? If you enlist, or become a firefighter, or an EMT you’re automatically a hero now.
While there are certainly real heroes in all those jobs, there are also plenty of “careerists, boot-lickers, sadists, thugs, crooks, and mediocrities” in them too.
So why do we honor warriors?
Why does putting on certain uniforms make one a “hero”?
I figure the answer has a lot more to do with how those people comapre to ourselves:
See, I reckon I’d rather have my job than to be a soldier or a sewer maintenance person or a miner. And I figure the miner and the soldier face death far far more often than I do. If no one was a miner, well, we’d just import more raw materials. And if no one was a sewer worker, well, that’d stink. And if no one was a soldier, I’m supposed to assume our country would be invaded and we’d all die or suffer.
And they just don’t make too many movies or TV shows glorifying sewer workers, or even miners.
Thanks to WWII and Vietnam, I think most of America knows at least one person who served. I wonder what will happen when the last of the drafted dies off, and fewer folks know people who self-selected to serve. Will our worship of the soldier go up, or down?
called a hero is to demonstrate common decency, like refuse to commit crimes against humanity and atrocities, that is yet another large clue stick that the society has broken down.
Personally, I’ll be glad the day that common decency and refusing to commit crimes against humanity or atrocities become prerequisites to being called a hero.
Seems that would be a step forward from where we are today.
* Note: I’ll make an exception for anyone who doesn’t meet that basic criteria, but comes forward with the whole truth and exposes everyone else involved (including those up the chain of command). The whistleblowers can be “heroes” too.
what I have, because you are a “civilian”, goes to the heart, I think, of my argument.
I know how you might feel; I said what I did, because I know how hard it might be for anyone else to say it (and believe me, it wasn’t too easy for me to say it either).
But why must we be cowed from saying such things? Why can I get away with it (and I’m not so sure I can) and you can’t?
It is people who live in a totalitarian society who are afraid to speak their minds.
What does that say about us?
Well, this topic came up at least once before here. The diarist started with a topic along the lines of “fuck the troops”, and spent the diary splitting the troops into categories — the voluntary war criminals, the war criminals following orders, those who noticed the first two groups but did nothing, the whistleblowers, and maybe the troops where were unaware of anything wrong. Then he attacked some/most/all of the groups and was royally barbecued by the vast majority on this site. It lead to a rift in the community, hurt feelings, etc.
Personally, I could see the truth of some of what he was saying, but I didn’t agree with his conclusions. I think the peacemaking concensus of the site was we supported the troops, but not the war, and we didn’t look any deeper into the topic because of the potential consequences.
I think it took a credible vet such as yourself to even bring the topic up again. And I’m glad you did.
Myself, I support principles of what America is and should be. If someone supports that (soldier, cop, mother of 4 protesting, Feingold) I support them. If someone doesn’t (soldier, president, reporter), I don’t support them.
But this has become a pre-fascist state, and its pointless to even discuss the topic if your own allies on the “left” are going to mock/ridicule/castigate you.
Anyhow, I want to thank you for bring up this topic again in a way that lets us be critical, without being negative. I didn’t realize how much our silence was playing into the right-wing’s hands until you spelled it out.
to state the facts in polite company. It is impossible though for it to be unacceptable for me. As the spouse of a soldier and doing all I could for the survival of the family while he did his best to survive Iraq…….under the “hero laws” I have paid the price. So when I call bullshit on it all and start talking about real things like runny noses and dirty dishes and throw down the fucking halo that is only make believe, jaws hit the floor. Some people have to leave quickly because their equalibrium has been so thrown out of wack they must find a place to hide immediately or risk the meltdown that follows exposure to too much truth……..and because our soldiers and innocent civilians still continue to die as I type this I just don’t give a flying fuck either!
Thank you for your diary.
Although I was not in your shoes, nor am I a spitter… I have been wondering why we are basically forced to say we honor the warrior.
I’ve been finding it harder to – I dunno – I’m at a loss for words, but it’s getting hard talking to my daughter about the military when she sees so much of the crap that is going on in Iraq/Afghanistan. The burning of Tillman’s body armor, the burning of the insurgents bodies… the prison photos…
We try to lay that at the feed of this Regime, but “just following orders” isn’t pleasing to the ear anymore.
Hearing hte military calls my best friends son several times a week now and they are getting slyer about trying to contact him, too.
I’m a military brat who married a military man and we both are now beginning to be really afraid OF and FOR our military.
Please set me straight if I have offended any veterans. Lord knows I love you all and Veterans For Peace makes my whole body sing out when I see them. A sense of relief sweeps over me when I see one of them at a rally. I make sure to stay close to them.
I just hate seeing the wariness, concern in my daughter’s eyes when the military is shown on the news. And I hate what I’m starting to feel too. But I don’t know what I’m actually feeling…
I am truly sorry if my diary has caused you to think about things you cannot yet articulate.
Frankly, I’m not sure if I’m articulating them very well myself.
I just figured to get it out there as best I can, and hope that a dialogue might develope that can help us all deal with the conflicting feelings around this issue.
I think this diary is great and I am hoping my husband will read it. As he too has been voicing the same concerns as my daughter has.
Finally someone said it. Someone blew breath into what so many were feeling.
It gives us all a way to look at it, discuss it and learn.
One day we can not be seen as “silly mothers” who say their own children are their heroes.
The aspect of war and rape. SusanW shared this with me.
“The military is a hothouse for the American Rape Culture; it is a misogynist, homophobic institution that relies on patriarchal structures and values. It trains men to devalue, objectify and demean traits traditionally associated with women, demanding a violent masculinity defined in opposition to femininity.
Rape in war is not an anomaly.
War is rape and death and destruction. It is the ultimate expression of Power Over, and America’s love affair with war has poisoned our whole culture.”
No not all men or military men are rapists but you diary … just what are we honoring in men?? What are we asking them to become? Really. We teach them how to kill and then we throw them away and dismiss them. What’s so horrible about this regime, is that it’s throwing them away before they even return.
Somedays I feel like my hair is on fire. Cabingirl called for a chat one day and in total tears I insist I’m getting divorced because I don’t understand my husband’s fearlessness over standing his ground, and I’m scared silly that he’ll get sent back and really have to stand his ground and god knows what the fuck will happen to him then. Will he become the hero or the traitor? Many many moons ago he used to talk about how hurtful it was to him knowing how some of the Vietnam Vets were treated……so my last tearful meltdown was something about how it is all going to happen again. Once the whole truth comes out about everything that happened over there and once our own body bags are stacked so high that pain overcomes our insanity, hate of the Iraq Vets will be born within some citizens. I asked him if he was fully aware of this and he claims that he is and he claims that he is ready……somedays though I just hang on by my fingernails it feels like. It feels like hell is coming for us all and I see it coming miles off and I can barely stand it and it just keeps on coming!
oh yes, how I know how you feel! Thank you so much for your diary. It says so much on who you are as a person. I could go on to say “you just had to be there, to understand” has been said so many times. Well, sure one had to be there to understand! But we have to be sure we do undersand.. I too taught a few of those classes. The time I started to tell the children, that will one day be asked to make a decision and to konw that which they are getting themselves into, was when they stopped me from those classes. Once they saw through my teachings, they did not ask me back. Why? for the very same reasons you gave. PPl need heros. I wrote a diary a few days ago, asking the same thing. NO one took interest in it. It was seeeeeeemingly too hard for them to figure out. Well, duh! not if you have one. If you don’t then just say so…I have many a mentors and heros. I had to select just one…and I did.
I did not give the same old answer to which would be obvious either. I really searched in my heart of hearts for one that mattered the most. NOt like GEEW who says his mentor or hero is God. That is a cop out and we all know it. Thanks for your diary. And again, welcome home. Thanks for hangin in ther with humanity as best as we all can. hugs
and commenting.
I’m hangin in there, and seeing if I can ruffle a few feathers along the way.
leftvet, as always, I am blown away by your talents with the written word, and in this piece, you have taken huge risks and carried them off splendidly, and have resonated with many things I feel, and try to put into action each day.
There is something about hero-worship, most especially the way we “practice” it in this country, that has always rubbed me the wrong way. I suppose what it comes down to for me is the reflection of some seriously FUCKED UP PRIORITIES. What is glorified in the US (and other countires too, but I am of here, so it is mostly of here that I speak of) is absolutely ass-backwards 99% of the time.
I was dropping my kiddos off at daycare the other day, and a gentleman in uniform was taking his child out of his car next to me. I touched him on the shoulder, looked in his eyes and said, “thank you for your service”, he said, “thank you for supporting us”. It was an exchange that has been much on my mind since then, because, aside from taking him out for coffee or a beer or both, I have no idea what we REALLY said to each other.
I am the kind of person who says thank you to the guys who pick up my trash if I happen to be out front when they come by, who makes sure my kids’ teachers know how much I appreciate them on a regular basis (and forgets all about the contrived “Teacher Appreciation Day”), who makes conversation and inquires into how things are going with people who clean floors and bathrooms int he building I frequent, so to me, thanking this gentleman for his service was not something unusual or specific to the uniform he wore — it’s just what I do.
But my way of saying it, and his response is what got me thinking — no individual acknowledgement, really. Thanks for supporting US, he said. And I am pretty sure that the US he was refering to is NOT an entity that has my “support”. I saw a man with his child who does a job that I would never in a million years do, at least not in the insititution in which he is a part. But I saw an individual I wanted to commend, to speak to, to appreciate, but the words that I used failed me, I think. Does any of that make any sense?
This is long enough, but I’ll just end with another thank you, leftvet, for opening up a conversation where so often there is none.
this was one of the most difficult diaries I’ve had to write.
I usually write something because I think I have the answer.
I don’t have the answer on this one.
I’m not even sure if I’ve got the right question.
I believe you, and I also believe that you have EXACTLY the right question, in so many ways, exactly right.
Peace, brother.
Am I glad you wrote this diary–If a non-vet did, he/she would have never heard the end of it!!!
That’s one thing I’d like to know. Just because a person is a vet, doesn’t mean that he or she shold automatically be assigned to some special status in society. But, that is what happens. And, it is too often overlooked that there are people who are unable to be in any branch of the service, for medical reasons. And, those who fit that description are looked down on by many vets–I’ve had more than a few experiences of that nature, ironically, the worst was when I was attended a traumatic brain injury rehab support group.
It is not perceived to be one. In the majority of their minds, vets come first, no matter what. Name ONE vets group that is actively opposed to Medicare D(isaster), as opposed to guilt-tripping people into complaining about VA budget cuts.
Only other vets, no one else, despite the fact that other organizations will work on issues that impact vets. Check out the third link–traumatic brain injury and vets.
Why do people honor war?
Because they are taught, indoctrinated to do so.
Why? Because nothing makes rich men richer more reliably and efficiently than war.
And if people are not taught to honor it, they are less likely to sacrifice not only their sons and their money to it, but their most basic moral values, from personal responsibility to human rights to everything in between. The basest, most horrific acts will be accepted, and those who commit them lauded as heroes.
If conditioned correctly, all that and more will be given freely, even eagerly to the cause of the honored war, to the cause of making rich men richer.
that’s kinda the point I was trying to make.
Took me a whole lot more words than you to get there.
of brevity!
What a historic day!
I was brief. I was BRIEF!
And my brevity was recognized!
leftvet you have changed my life!
I am considering committing a dance of joy.
(at my age, one does not just leap into a dance of joy, one considers it)
Thank You, Thank You!
đŸ˜€
to participate in a life-changing experience.
Consider the dance of joy well.
Then do it!
Yes, war is the best and fastest way to transfer wealth from the poor and middle class to the rich. The tax cuts are small potatoes compared to windfall realized by the “War on Terror”. I would rather write a check directly to Halliburton than play out the charade that requires a hundred-thousands deaths.
War is a wonderful way to get all those unemployed, troublesome young men between 18 and 25 off the streets. Let them work out their resentments over there so we don’t have to deal with them over here.
War is the best way to stifle dissent. The success of Fascism requires fervent jingoism and abject fear.
War fuels both in abundance.
War is a con run on the powerless by the ruling class.
It always has been. Soliers die, civilians die, all in the service of elitists in a private tug of war over who gets to be boss. Both sides churn out hot and cold running propaganda to agitate the masses with threats that the inhuman others want to destroy “our way of life”. For the vast majority of the world, it doesn’t matter who’s in power if you’re at the bottom of the pile. Only the powerful win in war.
The human spirit is crushed and retarded by war. To what lengths will the status quo not go to make men more afraid of being called a pussy than of death ?
Subjugating women is a tool for controlling men.
Don’t get me started.
Thanks for starting this discussion, leftvet. I appreciate your candor and openness on a topic that is very taboo these days.
After spending 22 years in the Navy, the biggest ting I to deal with is wondering how the men and women I trained are dealing with the current situation. I hope and pray they learned the lessons imparted to them but I can not help but feel nervous as I see the rolls of the dead and wounded on various sites and take some responsibility if they did not manage to make it.
It feels good to be able to speak freely against the policies I feel are wrong at best . . . but sometimes feeling guilty at the same time. It is struggle inside of my mind and soul that makes me wonder if I really left the Navy or am I trying to live in two different worlds at the same time.
Look forward to reading more of your thoughts and hopeful provide some additional insights as well.
Leftvet, this is a great diary; I don’t see the dichotomy. You sound a lot like my Vietnam vet bro-in-law.
For me, I honor the warrior because 1) they’re people, mere mortals like you and me; 2) they have less freedom than you and me, giving up some measure of their lives in service to our country for a specific period of time (no matter what got them there in the first place); and 3) if they’ve seen the hell of combat, then they’ve given up a part of themselves that can never be paid back: their idealism and faith in an inherent goodness found on earth. That’s an enormous thing to have to give up at a the age of 18, 20, 22, 24…
I do agree we’re all heroes though, not just the vets. Each of us is enormously important and has a very real role to play in our community, our nation, our world.
Vets just tend to do it a bit louder than the rest of us. :o)
Leftvet – I don’t know what to say. I’m at work and need to stop the tears. But a heart full of thanks to you for the courage and beauty you shared with us in this diary. THIS IS WHY I LOVE THE POND!!!!
Have you read the book by Chris Hedges, “War is the Force That Gives Us Meaning”? He makes many of the same points you did – only from the point of view of a war correspondent instead of a soldier. But I have to say that you actually did it more eloquently – because its so obviously from your heart.
with this very question — although for me, it is more along the lines of, “DO I in fact honor warriors?”
I’m a Quaker pacifist. I really do believe that war is always a failure, always a tragedy on a grand scale, and usually just plain stupid and evil.
I’m married to a former Marine — ROTC through college, then he put in his four years and got out. Never saw combat. This was all years before we met, so I don’t consider myself a military spouse in any sense. I have a number of friends who are military spouses or otherwise closely involved with a soldier, and I have family members who have served in the National Guard — including a nephew who recently spent a year deployed in Iraq, and came back, well, different. What I have learned from each of them, or at least tried to wrap my mind around, is the idea that even in a flawed institution engaged in an immoral, evil project like war — there is in fact honor in a job well done, and that soldiering can be a true vocation like any other.
Quaker teaching on this issue of participation in war is very clear on one point: it’s a matter of individual conscience, not dogma. In every war in history, some Quakers have bucked their community’s values and beliefs, and signed up to fight. We have learned the hard way to honor their choice, even as we decry the institution of the military and the wars that are the occasion for its existence.
I’m not explaining this well, because it sounds too much like “Love the sinner, hate the sin.” And that is not the Quaker way at all. The best way I can explain this is to say that we all have an inner voice that is nothing less than our personal experience of the Divine. Each person’s spiritual responsibility is to be obedient to his or her Inner Guide, and my Inner Guide may lead me down different paths at different times in my life, at different stages of my spiritual journey. Thus, the person whose Inner Guide has not yet convinced them that participation in war is in conflict with the will of God may in fact have a spiritual duty to fight; the person whose Inner Guide HAS brought them clarity that war is wrong has a spiritual duty to refuse to participate. Spiritual truths and journeys are NOT one size fits all, and it is arrogant and sinful of me to believe that I know another person’s spiritual truth.
But, honestly, I struggle a lot with both sides of this argument. I have a really hard time understanding that there is honor in a job well done if that job is inherently immoral (achieving an evil policy goal by killing or threatening to kill on a massive scale). I also have a really hard time understanding, if my faith teaches that war is wrong, why we can accept and even support individuals who have a heartfelt conviction that they must fight in a war. I really don’t get it, but I’m trying to get it.
What I can honor in warriors is their willingness to risk their lives, to undergo severe hardship, endure lengthy separations from family and friends, all for low pay and very little glory beyond rhetoric and veneer. The fact that so many soldiers have no better options (economic draftees, to use your term) does not make their commitment any less admirable. And I also feel strongly that soldiers who survive war with not only their bodies but also their spirits and character intact truly are remarkable people. So many do not; they pay the price for my country’s wars far more directly and profoundly than I or any other civilian does. I have to honor the intention behind their sacrifice, regardless of how I feel about the intentions of the architects of war.
The question this leaves me with is: what then can I do to honor and support warriors without inadvertently supporting the wars they fight? And what then can I do to work towards removing the occasion for war, without dishonoring the vocation of the warrior? These are questions that I cannot yet clearly answer.
This is the question that haunts me, too, songbh.
I don’t want to add to the misery of a poor young person trying to better him/herself in one of the few ways available.
I don’t want to point out what is obvious to me, that he has been tricked, trapped, and brainwashed into risking his life for a lie.
I don’t want war waged in my name. As one of the woman and children that soldiers are told they’re protecting, I ask them to please, please, don’t kill my sisters and brothers in Iraq or anywhere else for my sake. Slaughtering the innocent doesn’t help me, doesn’t make me safer, and I don’t want it.
I don’t want your invisible, flag-draped coffin borne home in my name. Your death only diminishes me. Please, do not kill or die in my name.
I don’t want you maimed in my name. I will not sleep soundly knowing you’ve no arms to hold your children. Please do not sacrifice your limbs for my sake.
I don’t want your character corrupted in my name. I will not feel proud to be an American when the acts you commit mistakenly protecting our homeland turns you into a callous abuser.
I do not want your heart broken in my name. My “way of life” will not be preserved by your tears, lifelong nightmares and wounded spirit.
If invasion from a power worse than this government comes to my door, I will fight it personally. I’m an old woman who’s lived a good life. Even in a situation of real threat, I would not want a young person with her whole life ahead of her, to die defending me.
No, thank you. Not for me. Not in my name.
I think I might have to steal it verbatim.
Thank you.
I would be honoured, but please fix the inadvertent grammar error:”..acts you commit mistakenly protecting our homeland TURN you into a callous abuser.”
The admiration is mutual.
This thread is so thoughtful and articulate. I think we have all been bursting to say these things, but it took this very special diary to give a safe place to speak.
I hope you’ll forgive me if this reply turns out to be overly-long, but it results from a great feeling of relief at seeing your diary.
In the past I’ve raised the issues you have on American-dominated fora and had my head ripped off. I had a very civilised and enjoyable exchange of diaries with Soonergrunt at Kos, but we got sidetracked from my pov into the (arguable) necessity of America’s militarism. Apart from soonergrunt, past conversations have been deeply hurtful and angering.
So above all, thank you very, very much for your diary.
I think we honour the warrior because fundamentally under all the bullshit propoganda and lies and the structure of the military-industrial complex, lies the archetype of the noble warrior, and we respond to it positively. The noble warrior archetype is a strong and disciplined man or woman who combines a willingness to sacrifice their life to defend the weak and helpless with a compassion for their enemies, and a conservative approach to the use of lethal force; but when pressed, will not hesitate to use it.
It’s a very powerful archetype, echoing thousands of years of human evolution across virtually all cultures, and there is much in it to admire.
It has of course been utterly co-opted, unless you’re reading a nice sci-fi or fantasy novel, or of course, talking to or know of some of the few good men and women in our armed forces who abide by such a code.
The problem is that both the archetype and those who dedicate themselves to it like Soonergrunt (from my perspective anyway) have been utterly co-opted and subsumed into a fundamentally corrupt system that honours none of the same principles. Where the noble warrior would never injure a civilian, in reality civilians are 9/10s of the casualities of modern warfare. Where the noble warrior would never co-opt children into war, it’s a daily reality on planet earth. Where the noble warrior would only seek to protect his/her own, the reality is that nation states use their military to defend corporate interests and control global resources. The list goes on, and most of us know it.
The other reason we honour warriors is because especially in the USA, virtually everyone knows someone serving, or who has served etc. It’s utterly ingrained – the US army is like the world’s third largest youth employer for heaven’s sake. So you’ve either got to stop talking to a huge amount of people you know, or be polite and accepting about the military. Societal ostracisation is a pretty big incentive for keeping your mouth shut and your questions to yourself.
Frankly I think a lot of this boils down to a personal assessment. I decry many of the actions taken by the US military and would have no good words for [for example] the US pilots who dropped bombs as part of the Iraqi “shock and awe”. I have little compassion for the troops involved in the Abu ghraib torture, and nothing but contempt for those who are responsible for US military culture, strategy and tactics – ie the top heirarchy. But I respect Soonergrunt. I might question whether he can really adhere to a code he so strongly believes in within the US military, but I respect his vocation.
Overall I think we have to have compassion for the troops; but compassion is very different from instant glorification, or unquestioning acceptance and a three blind monkeys approach to their individual actions as part of a greater military machine.
I used to go to the ANZAC memorial in my late teens with a friend, Kim, who is Vietnamese, adopted by a Vietnam Vet at the end of the war. We’d go to the memorial service with her father and his vet mates. Inevitably after many beers, one in particular would break down and cry about an incident where he shot and killed a girl about Kim’s age, mistakenly thinking she was a suicide Cong plant. It tortured him, that he had inctontravertible evidence that he murdered an innocent teenage girl. Of course, he had volunteered for the war, like so many 18-21 young foolish men.
If we don’t have compassion for men like him, they’ll never sit their sonds down and talk them out of enlisting, or vote for the pro-peace political parties, or speak out.
Above all, we have to work to skillfully dismantle the glorification of war, and soldiers, and replace it with remembrance and compassion.
There’s one last element I think is often overlooked. From my experience with those Vietnam Vets, everyone had terrible experiences and regrets from that war, yet every one of them said they would go again, because the brotherhood and cameraderie they developed together made it all worth it. The force of their bonds to each other was obvious, in some ways frightening (eg over-riding the irrefutable logic that the war had been a terrible thing) and profound. It was clear, and is still clear that war will continue to be profoundly attractive to young men, and men in general, because it allows them to reaffirm aspects of stereotypical masculinity – such as “taking” women – that are abhorrent in civil society, and to forge lifelong bonds.
We have to as a society find other ways for men to express their masculinity that are humane and acceptable, and can effectively either replace or reform this aspect of masculinity, and our overall culture. Otherwise war will always appeal to men, and this in turn will mean the ongoing glorification of war and those who participate in it, no matter how appalling their deeds.
Personally I see nothing wrong with chess. Or seed spitting.
Those of us who are masculine enough are able to compete in both events simultaneously.
And those of us who are really secure are able to do both while wearing pink clothing and committing man-hugs.
affirm and express masculinity:
I like to remind myself and others, “Anything war can do, peace can do better.” War does accomplish some positive ends. If we don’t understand the positive intentions and benefits that war brings about, we won’t be able to figure out how to meet those positive aims without all the senseless violence, death, and destruction of war.
I know a kid who joined his high school’s JROTC unit, even though he’s a Quaker with no interest in a military career. At his school, the JROTC kids do all the helpful community service activities, like directing parking at football games. He wanted to be part of that. Drill marching with a gun and learning military history and generally being unethically recruited to enlist while underage is just part of the package that helps him meet his positive aim.
Very thought-provoking diary. Thank you. I read it early today and could not articulate a response to it.
This afternoon I went to see the movie “Why We Fight”
It explored all the historical, economic, and cultural reasons we fight. The final statement by retired retired officer Karen Kwiatkowsi keeps running through my mind. “We fight because nobody stands up and says no.”
Thank you for such a great and honest diary.As a matter of fact I must tip my hat to you because you said many things that are true.
Therefore I will be totally honest with you. I was born abroad, and lived some very difficult times, that of the war against Communism. Truth be told, there was no such war. That is a myth. It was a war against defenceless civilians. Innocent civilians. Although I was an American citizen from birth, I grew up hating this country. Ashamed of it. And that included the American people.
But that has changed. I came to respect this country it’s institutions and its people. I guess that I realized how generous this country can be when it wants to.
If you think about it there have two times that the rest of the world has cheered the American military: on WWII, and on Kosovo. USA, USA !! That was what the world was saying.My point is that is is not the warrior nor the country. It is the war itself. Those were “just” wars.
Now to your war: “We” were the bad guys there. And by “We” I mean the USA. Not us, the People. Specifically, I am refering to those in power. They had no honor.
As for you, the militry, you should be honored. Not because you killed. Simply because you had the courage to go; to serve your country. Even if it was dangerous, even if you were terrified.
And even if I dont agree with that war, let me thank you for your service. And, above all let me thank you for the service to this country you are doing now, by speaking out against this unjust war.
I’ve been trying to consolidate some perspectives that have recently come into my mind mainly as a result of the recent rape and abortion criminalization diaries here, and somehow your diary about “honoring the warriors”, the soldiers, crystalized something for me.
I had been thinking about how all the aggression triggered by the insanity of the Bush regime and their zealous enablers represents an overarching social and emotional climate of ever increasing predation.
Partly because of the war meme and it’s accompanying fear mongering propagated by BushCo, the rhetoric in the public discourse has also been weaponized, as have the behavior of the religious zealots, the looters of the economy, the race baiters, those orchestrating the direct assault on women’s basic human rights, and everyone else who sees some advantage to be gained from fanning the flames of divisiveness and intolerance.
More than ever in my memory, we have become a culture where the first impulse for many is to take advantage of any situation in order to gain something at the expense of one’s fellow human. Repubs pounce on every injudicious word spoken by the Dems and vice versa. Anti abortion extremists routinely assault the integrity and humanity of those in favor of abortion rights. Evangelical Christians against Muslims and various other non-Christians; etc. etc. etc.
In short, more and more people are “preying on” each other, attacking perceived weaknesses or vulnerabilities wherever and whenever they can as though living this way is all in the normal course of our day to day life.
As far as honoring the warriors goes, I think there is an overriding and natural impulse to honor those who risk their own well-being on behalf of others and who do so unselfishly. The early man who may have turned to fight the sabertooth tiger so his mate and progeny might escape and live would have likely been honored for his courage and sacrifice as a warrior. And somehow, even in some wars, many of those who fight against the aggressors are rightly honored.
But it seems abundantly clear now that, for the most part, war is primarily an act of predation; a most brutal mechanism whereby, as all true predators do, the strong attack the weak. Even those who claim they must wage war as a defense frequently create a false pretext for doing so, (WMD in Iraq, Gulf of Tonkin attack fraud in Vietnam), so that now even defensive war is a predatory act. and there is no honor in predation.
As you say, leftvet, honor the warrior, not the war. For me, the strongest people I know are poor and disenfranchised and they fight their war for survival everyday 24/7. They are the warriors I honor most; them and those who work for their best interests.
I am greatly saddened that so many people here in this country are still drawn into the scam of predatory war. So many lives destroyed for the lies and greed of a small group of powermad lunatics. and I applaud and honor you, and also Brenda Stewart here, who’ve made it a point to speak out against the folly of war in those school classes you mentioned.
To my mind now, those who dishonor the warriors the most are those who deploy them as the aggressors. And no country has done more of that more often over the last hundred years than the US government. We, the US, are unquestioningly the pre-eminent predator nation on the planet, the pariah against which the rest of the world must engage.
Marx said that a people’s morality hinges on the way they earn a living.
Hunter/gatherers are highly cooperative, regarding competition as evil. This is not because they are sweet and good, born with a “sharing gene”; the nature of their survival depends on everybody in the band working together (and with nature) for the common good. I share my food today, and you will share with me tomorrow. The children are the responsibility of everyone, and the forest is our mother.
The great anthropoligist Colin Turnbull tried to explain the playing fields of Eton to the Ituri Forest’s M’Buti pygmies. They could not understand why a responsible elder would sanction an activity for the young that resulted in any of them losing. “You mean, someone actually LOSES ?”, they kept asking, trying to make some kind of sense out of such an outlandish idea. Shaming or excluding someone from the kin group is the harshest punishment in their culture. Calling such cruelty a game sounds insane to them.
We live in a country driven by the rapacious capitalism of anonymous coporations where everyone is prey. This ethic colours all aspects of our lives.
There. I’ve outed myself as a Fenima-Neo-Marxist (embarassed no end by Stalin and Mao), who usually calls herself a Socialist.
I think it was King Juan Carlos of Spain, (very ironic that a “king” would be credited with this statement), that “Democratic Socialism” is surely the next evolutionary stage after the sort of capitalist secular democracy practised today. I’ve always agreed with this because, after all, what higher purpose could a govenment have than to operate guided by principles that empower and serve all it’s citizens rather than just serving some at the expense of others. In my mind, a government that doesn’t embrace the value of the idea that “A rising tide lifts all boats”, is essentially missing the only legitimate reason for government to exist in the first place, that reason being to serve, protect, and when possible improve the lives of the citizentry.
I don’t know if Turnbull himself expounded on this specifically, but one of the main reasons for the cooperative spirt at the core of so many of human kinds early social constructs is that those societies were guided in their actions by “natural law” rather than by the arbitrarily arrived at judgmentalism of notions of right and wrong. Sharing, in the hunter-gatherer cultures was celebrated and taught and encouraged not becaue it was determined to be right or moral or any of that stuff, it was celebrated because it worked well for all concerned.
I try to live my life in harmony with the fundamental natural law of cause and effect. While I recognize the value of many principles presented via religious channels, I know of no meaningful human values that require a religious context within which to accord them legitimacy, and so for me, I see the values conferring credibility on the religion rather than the religious affiliation being the legitimizer of the values. All the zealots in all the major religions on the planet get this simple dynamic backwards everytime. This is why religious law, when aggressively implemented, always results in bloody catastrophe. and this is why the so-called values of ourleadership in this country are so brutally out of touch with reality.
Thank you, sbj. That was wonderful. I love the utilitarian perspective. (And now I can call myself a
Carolinean Social Democrat; so much nicer than That Pinko Commie Ball Breaking Anti-American Bitch)
I’m sure there are some instances where that second title might prove to be more useful, so maybe you’ll keep it in reserve rather than abandoning it altogether.
This diary and the recent flood of diaries about the experiences of rape survivors have re-energised me as a participant at BT.
I’m not sure that I can answer the question “why do we honour warriors?”, although I’m inclined to agree with some of the excellent ideas on this in leftvet’s diary and the comments.
I’ll tread carefully here, because my active participation at dKos ended last year when I figuratively had my head ripped off for (foolishly) commenting that I could not support US forces in Iraq. (Perhaps nobody realised I am not an American.)
It seems to me that all nations/cultures with a Judeo-Christian heritage accord some level of respect to the noble warrior archetype described beautifully by myriad. But this respect and support goes a lot further in the US than it does elsewhere. Instinctively, I feel that it has some connection to what I see as other strong reflections of the conservative streak in America: the strength of religion in public life and the reverence for the flag.
Extraordinary respect is accorded those who serve in US forces on the basis that they are ‘serving their country’ or defending the US, ‘democracy’ or ‘freedom’. Yet the list of US engagements in ‘hot’ wars suggests that, since WWII, US forces have not been used once to defend the US against aggressors. Rather they have been used to invade other countries, crush elected governments, install or prop up vicious dictators, and generally serve the interests of US capital and/or US domestic politics, often in violation of international law and/or the views of the international community.
To be fair, I must acknowledge the role of US forces which have been deployed to assist with natural disasters and other humanitarian matters.
But it is reasonable to ask why volunteering to join the US military should be regarded as serving the country when you can reasonably expect that your work is likely to involve planning, supporting or participating in imperialist foreign interventions and actions which in many cases will be counter to the long-term interests of the American people. You are most unlikely to ever have the opportunity to defend your home and kin.
Now, before anyone replies about motivations, I should say that I understand joining the forces may offer some people the prospect of stable employment, training and free education which they may not otherwise obtain. Perhaps it can offer a sense of stable community or family that wouldn’t otherwise exist. But in these cases wouldn’t you say the individuals are motivated to serve their own interests rather than their country?
I don’t wish this comment to be disrespectful of those here with current or former military service. I accept that it can require great bravery and sacrifice to serve in the forces, and for some people, just to enlist. I also accept that you do what you are ordered rather than choosing your own personal foreign adventurism. And I can also see that, in a culture where everybody says service in the military is serving your country, then people will enlist thinking that this is the case.
Anyway, I guess that the bottom line for me is just a hope that it would be possible to explore these issues without being un-American (if you are one!). A more important task, obviously, is to argue about the missions on which the US military has been deployed.
where not only is “support of US gunmen required, whether the posters are American or not, but it is also forbidden to express a desire that they be defeated, or that the Resistance succeed.
Again, this is a rule that applies to participants regardless of nationality, Australian, Fijian, even Iraqis!
If it is any consolation to you, I support neither crusade nor crusaders.
If the US were the victim of a brutal invasion, and crimes against humanity against Americans, I would support the right, even the duty of Americans to defend their homes, their towns, their nation, from the attackers.
Because I consider the Iraqi people to be equally human and their lives equally valuable, and do not agree with the US policy that self-defense is a privilege that can be bestowed only by the US, I would be quite the hypocrite if I did not support the Iraqi Resistance.
First of all, thank you for saying this.
I have been pretty uneasy about the military fetishism that has become popular on the left. I understand that it is rooted, ultimately, in an effort to disassociate the contemporary left from the excesses of some anti-war protestors during Vietnam. But for that reason, it is cynical bullshit and in its own way as bad or worse than what went before.
War is sometimes necessary, if only when one is attacked. But for that initial act of aggression to occur, somebody has to make the decision to start an unnecessary war, and then a whole bunch of somebodies have to go out and do it. Without the abundance of willing soldiers in every country on earth, there would be no one to carry out the orders of the cowardly old men who decide to start wars, and it certainly isn’t likely that those people will ever put themselves in harm’s way. Heaping praise upon soldiers just for being soldiers only makes it easier to recruit more fodder for the next war.
I can’t bring myself to take part in the myth-building, least of all for cynical political gain. Too many young people are sucked into the notion of glory in one form or another, the idea that they will be honored and remembered and somehow elevated. The truth is that with a few token exceptions, those who fall in battle will be forgotten like everyone else, reduced to a name on a wall or a plaque or just a headstone within a generation, and honored only in the vague and utterly impersonal sense that veterans are collectively honored on Veteran’s Day. And those who survive? I share a bus stop with a constant stream of ragged Vietnam vets who apparently spend most of their time trying to get even substandard care from the local VA hospital.
It’s a high price to pay to benefit the handful of people who actually gain anything from war.
to read this leftvet. This is such a great diary. I thank you for it. The first argument that my husband and I ever had while dating was whether or not we need a military. My family wasn’t what I would call supportive of the military….and other than my Uncle’s time as a Marine in Vietnam there isn’t much history there on either side of my family supporting the military power structure since the Civil War. Once again, I was taught that what I focus on and give my energy to tends to grow so focusing on and giving energy to “the military” was something that my family avoided doing. It has enough of it’s own energy to sustain it and it was capable of protecting the nation if it was needed and that was enough. It was hard falling in love with someone whose job was being a soldier. It is a job though and it is a chosen job like anything else since we don’t draft anymore, it’s just a chosen profession. With the meltdown of everything though we have had lots of moments of tears and frustration in this house. It isn’t that my husband worships the military, but he is standing his ground and avoiding early retirement because he truly believes that his last years in can be used usefully to save and repair the military we have left after these fuckers are done abusing it. My tears though come from way back when in the middle of heated debate years ago he never thought the United States military would be used like this ever again. It always seems like some shithead tries to pull something like this on a small scale and gets shut down……but never this, and I can’t help but point at all this horrible shit and demand an explanation from my husband pertaining to his military commitment. He says that he never dreamed that something like this could happen. The glorifying of soldiers gets soldiers killed too in a big way. If it is viewed as a job that involves protecting the nation and these guys are just plain simple folk…….who wants to send them to hell and back based on a bunch of spooled up bullshit and watch them eat bullets and kill other innocent human beings? Honoring warriors the way this nation tends to honor warriors gets warriors murdered and other innocent people murdered likewise! I know it upset people when the counter protester at Crawford held up her sign that read “Cindy, let my son rest in peace!” It sounds heart wrenching, but is it really? Isn’t it just a dead boy wrapped up in all that fucking hero worship? *My reply to her is still the same, “Don’t worry lady, we won’t disturb him…..he can’t hear us anymore because he is dead!” *
but no matter what I wrote, it wasn’t satisfactory. It wasn’t enough. My dear Vietnam veteran friend died a few weeks ago, and he had shared many of the same ideas. It is a terrible quandary. We are trapped in a web of words that denies the horrible reality of combat.
If those who start the wars truly valued those who serve, there would have been no Vietnam and no Iraq. Those rich white men who profit from wars operate in the shadows. They must, or they would be extinguished like cockroaches scattering in the night, stepped on, crushed.
I cannot but honor warriors as I honor any others who are doing the best they can in their situation. They have no power over the web of words woven in the shadows. Those who fight are “only a pawn in their game,” as Dylan wrote.
Especially, I honor you, leftvet, for this difficult, profound diary that has elicited so many thoughtful responses. Thank you.
friend too….right here today. The truth is the highest honor that we can pay them. Peace and love be with you today.
Your response brought tears to my eyes, and I do so need to cry. As you know, life moves us along, sometimes too fast to pause and remember. May peace and love be with you and yours also.
Love, I’ve come to believe, is all that really matters.
Thanks for this excellent diary. I saw the posting yesterday and put off reading it for other things that seemed more interesting. I was wrong. Recommended.
all of you who read and posted in this diary.
Your comments and insights and feeling and courage have made this diary very special to me, and so much more than my own words were able to convey.
Thank you all.