As some of you know, I am in the middle of trying to move my ass from Arizona to Ohio. (Well, if it were only my ass, things would be going far more easily, but I digress.) I threw out both my back and my neck while cleaning out my closet (shut up Second Nature), so last night I was eating
lots of percocet and catching up a little on blogs and news and such.
And I stumbled across this at Pandagon:
(If you give a shit about women’s equality and you’re not already reading Amanda, then you should be. Brilliant and hilarious, that one, and due to the FP posters as well as the comment community, reading Pandagon can give you a good general education regarding the variety of modern feminist takes on sociopolitical issues. It can also disabuse you of some of the bullshit arguments forwarded by anti-feminists that some folks on the left believe are actually true, because the bias in the MSM isn’t just anti-left, it’s also anti-feminist.)
It seems a complaint was filed with the Washington State Department of Health this week because that contingency of nutjob pharmacists who likes to think they’re more moral than the rest of us is now taking this “punish the sluts” thing to a whole ‘nother level.
Cedar River Clinics, in case you hadn’t worked it out, is a women’s health center with several locations in WA, and it also offers abortion services. So these lunatics, who already seem to think they have an unassailable right to interfere with women’s medical reproductive choices, are now extending that interference to withholding antibiotics from women they deem unworthy. “Let the sluts die”, I guess, is the logic here. Because that’s pro-life, or something. As was pointed out in the Pandagon thread, even prisoners on death row are entitled to antibiotics. These pharmacists are unilaterally demoting law-abiding women to a status below that of prisoners on death row.
Oh, but wait, there’s more:
wtf? Why should any pharmacist have any business to question why any woman chooses any particular medical facility? And why in the hell would a pharmacist withhold pre-natal vitamins, under any circumstances? Even reaching down into the deepest, darkest, wingnuttiest recesses of my brain — and I’m related to these people, I do understand them to an extent — I cannot imagine a scenario in which that makes any more sense than skull-fucking as an after school hobby, not even under their own totally logic-free worldview. What the hell happened to protecting the fetus at all costs? Not if the fetus’ slut mother went to a clinic where they perform abortions on other women, I guess; that fetus is now tainted by association and cannot be given the vitamins that fetus-carriers who see properly moral doctors can have. Seriously, wtf?
There’s been some defense of these controlling lunatics by people on the left, and not nearly enough condemnation from the whole left or from Democratic politicians. (Credit where it’s due, some Dems are bravely fighting this, like the gov there in IL, and I applaud them.) Some people, even on the left, even while they fight for the rights of all kinds of other groups, still seem to think that pharmacists do have a right to withhold medication at their own discretion based on nothing other than their personal moral judgment.
I’ve been wondering whether these folks are only making excuses for this outrageous behavior because they are, in various ways, duped into believing that a fetus should have more rights than the woman it requires use of in order to survive and grow into a baby, but I don’t really know. We’d have to see whether they’d hold their positions when their own heart medication was withheld in every pharmacy for 200 miles just because the pharmacists decided that they didn’t morally approve of some facet of their lifestyle.
But I’m curious. At this point, does anyone here honestly continue to believe that any of this is really about babies? Or is it yet becoming clear to people that the “moral issue” that is at stake here, even when the lunatics say it’s about babies, is really women’s very basic and fundamental rights to both privacy and bodily autonomy? Is it obvious yet to the folks who originally bought the whole “moral/baby” line of bullshit that this behavior is really about controlling women’s sexuality — and at the threat of death, if necessary?
If I’m not entirely coherent, blame the percocet. No, fuck that, blame the patriarchy. 😉
We have a patriarchial culture in love with the strict father ideal so imposing one’s morality on people who don’t share it is no big deal — after all they buy into the belief that they know better and are better than other people. It’s for our own good, you know. And if someone dies in the process, well there’s always a price to pay (by someone else) to bring about a better world.
You already know I agree. It seems like we’re in such a backslide from the backlash that now, any time I hear anyone say, “It’s for your own good,” to anyone any older than about 9 or 10, I am suspicious as hell.
I want them to keep doing things like this — I want everybody to see what hypocrites they are, that their so-called sanctity of life does not include any living being who does not think and act exactly the way they prescribe.
I know I’ve said this before, but I’m just waiting for them to start denying HIV medications to patients on the same “moral” grounds. I think it’s just a matter of time.
I fear you’re right, CabinGirl.
Jill did a post yesterday at Feministe on how many CVS pharmacies in the DC area are locking up condoms. Supposedly, it’s primarily about theft deterrence, but it winds up functioning as a shame-check that keeps people who are at risk from buying condoms.
Frankly, I think condoms should be widely and freely available as a matter of public health. (Not necessarily at for-profit drug stores, but you know what I mean, right?) No matter how hard the wingnuts try, it’s not like people are ever going to stop having recreational sex.
Frankly, I’d be wary of them saying it even to a child. Because it’s a lousy excuse no matter when it’s used. Even a kid deserves more explanation (assuming whatever is “for their own good” really is…) than that. Saying it’s “for your own good…” really means, “I don’t want to be bothered with your feelings or objections, or explaining what’s really going on. Just shut up and trust in my authority.”
I usually blame mine on the percocet. 😉
Before I get my head chopped off. I posted in the wrong diary again. I’m sorry.
We feminists only chop off heads in very dire circumstances, Family Man, so you’re safe. ;p
this is a serious diary or I’d have another comment to make.
Little do these fools know what they are starting with their bullshit. For sure somebody is going to pay a price for this, we can only hope justice is served. I do believe that women have had enough of this crap and will put a stop to it.
Indylib, I am moving too – nawth from Florida. Drug-free, dammit. I am assisted by canines and felines, and moments of communion in the frog pond. I’ll be thinking of you – don’t get too stressed.
Thanks, Alice. Best wishes to you, too. I’m originally from Miami, got out 11 years ago. 🙂
interferring in my life? It would just make my day taking this shit on!
Not to wish any assheads in your direction or anything, Tracy, but I’d love to read a diary about you “handling” the situation, lol.
slaves to their supersitions. To their bigotry. To their whims… fuck them. Don’t be a slave.
I think it’s about making us not count.
Like how they were wanting to count our stitches, our broken teeth, our fat lips in South Dakota to judge if the rape was “bad enough”…
They just don’t want us to count.
Women.. get up stand up speak out
((((Indy)))) I love you!
Love you too, {{{DJ}}}. And we will stand up and be counted whether they like it or not. We ain’t goin’ back.
Great diary, Indy.
One of the things that kills me about this pharamcist refusal crap is that it is a minority of pharmacists who are pulling this garbage. When I talk to my colleagues and other pharmacists in my PharmD program, most are incensed at the idea that other pharmacists think they have the right to make moral judgments and interject themselves into treatment decisions. I have only come across one who wouldn’t feel comfortable with dispensing Plan B, and she works in home health care where it isn’t an issue.
Here in PA, there is an effort underway to ensure that patients’s needs are met, not the pharmacists’s whims. Interestingly, the state pharmacy association has come out with a neutral position on the issue, rather than defending the pharamcist’s “rights”. Hopefully, more states will take up legislation protecting the patients’ right to care, so we don’t see anymore of this refusal of prescription based on the clinic that generated them, regardless of what medication is involved.
I’m sick to death of this whole “punish women who have sex because they are whores” thing.
I was thinking about you when I wrote this, actually. I tried to make sure I kept my language clean to implicate only the nutjobs and not smear the entire profession.
I’ve been meaning to ask you, what are your feelings about making Plan B available OTC? I’m for it, but I don’t know as much about the chemical aspects of it as you do, so I’m interested in your much better informed opinion, if you’ve time to share.
It’s safer than acetaminophen, and there’s no medical reason it isn’t available OTC.
EC is now available in Maine OTC (sans a script from a physician); and pharmacists cannot refuse to dispense (based upon a so-called ‘moral conscience clause’).
We’re one of only six states in the nation who have it…it’s an issue which must pass your legislature/Gov’s signature.
I feel so sorry for those of you (and all fecund women and teenaged girls) in red states.
It’s about controlling women from the cradle>grave (slave chattel labor). No pun intended.
We’re working on that in Maryland… Maybe next year. I don’t think it made it through the legislature this year.
Anyone who thinks his or her “moral” objections trump the right of a patient to have a valid prescription filled should not be licensed as a pharmacist, plain and simple. I am beyond sick of this shit.
should act unless there is some law in that state that specifically allows this refusal (God forbid).
I personally think that since pharmacists do not usually have Rx rights, that unless they find a mistake in a prescriber’s Rx and contact the prescriber, they should be professionally obligated to fill a legal RX. Their license should be suspended if they do not, which just might get their attention back to their friggin jobs!
I just saw this, Indy – what an infuriating thing this is. You are absolutely right that this doesn’t have a thing to do with babies and the sanctity of baby-life. It’s all about controlling women’s sexual behavior and punishing the sluts who dare to engage in sexual intercourse with no intent to breed.
It’s the same thing with the wingnuts who oppose giving girls and women the HPV vaccine to guard against cervical cancer, because they fear it will lead to promiscuous sex without the fear of disease and death which ought to be a natural deterrent for these slutty women.
It’s a small thing but I have begun getting my family’s prescriptions at the local Kroger store because they have a company policy which prohibits their pharmacists from refusing to fill Plan B and other prescriptions because of moral objections. And I tell them every chance I get that that is why I changed. They even have a pamphlet for Plan B displayed prominently on the counter right there in the grocery store.
Yes, yes, and yes to your whole post.
Plus, I think selective shopping like that is the kind of small thing that adds up. If we all do it and follow your example about speaking up about why we do it, it sends a big message to corporations, most of which still care more about their bottom line than anything else.
There’s a Kroger store right across the street from our new place in Ohio, actually, so it’s good to know I can probably transfer my prescriptions and shop there. 🙂
Whenever I hear about this pharmasists refusal issue, I wonder what they would have done with my situtation years ago. When I started menstruating I nearly bled to death. I had to have a blood transfusion, D&C and start on birth control pills. I don’t know if there would have been options to the pill at the time – but I’ve always thought it saved my life. Would they have refused to fill the perscription for a 13 year old under these circumstances?
I’d really like to ask one of them to answer this question. If for no other reason than that it was my fundamentalist christian mother who filled it for me. I don’t think she’d be able to support this movement if she put it in that context.
And how do these pharmasists know what women need the pill for – or do they simply want to refuse to fill perscriptions no matter what the medical reason?
I’ve known several women who’ve had D&C procedures and birth control prescriptions as a matter of general health — in fact, I was also one of them. Ironically, as soon as I started having sex with women, my doc put me on the pill, lol. For me it wasn’t life threatening but I know that for other women it is.
I really fear it’s just a matter of time before they kill some poor woman with their “morality”.
I’m really glad you were able to get the care that you needed, NLinStPaul, and thanks for raising such an excellent point.
Hey there Indy..you sound perfectly coherent to me-you always do. And my secret for the day-in solidarity with you I happen to have taken too many of my pain pills today also so if my posting gets incoherent that will be why. (I’ve mentioned this before when I’ve been afraid my posting might start sounding to garrulous-due to a bit of drug fueled posting.)
As for the diary-this whole gdamn can of worms with pharmacists being able to deny prescriptions due to their ‘moral’ conscience is really frightening with the momentum it is picking up. The question always has been where the fuck will it stop? Gay people not getting aids drugs?..Gay people getting no prescriptions filled period? Anyone not getting medication for aids drugs filled….this ‘moral’ list will become endless.
These so called ‘moral’ sob’s are about as immoral as you can get. And I’ve often wondered about the whole sex is for procreation set and what they expect a man or woman who can not procreate to do..forgo sex for the rest of their lives?
Exactly right, chocolate ink. And this is why we can’t have laws based on morality, and we need to keep our laws grounded in concepts like human rights, and individual freedoms, etc.
I’m Wiccan. Does that mean that some fundy should be able to refuse to fill a life-saving prescription for me because “Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live”? Or why stop there, if you’re taking the Bible literally? Why not replace the prescribed drug with something that will kill me?
Yes, of course, and I couldn’t agree more.
We have a big job in front of us. Last night I went out to dinner with a group of people and then a transition to someones home for lots more chatty engaging stuff.
Although the topic of women’s health issues, women’s rights issues were not brought up in this gathering of 7 or 8 bright intellegent and thoughtful people (mostly women), I was asked about my recent trip to SoCal and the meetup. Some asked, why I went and who was I going to visit. My fellow bloggers, I responded. ???Bloggers??? what’s that? So we began with me explaining what a Blog is, especially the type of blogs that I frequent. From there we went on to other topics that eventually led to the immigration uproar. Very interesting.
The things that I related to them about the immigration situation, they were mostly unaware of. And although these are very kind and caring folks, many of them had the Media’s favorite impression that these illegals are a serious threat to us for some reason. It occurred to me that because of our unbalanced and under-reporting Media, people have no real idea about what the issues really are, if or why they might be important and what possible solutions are being sought or undertaken.
We have a vastly UNeducated voting public out there who don’t know crap about any of these major concerns, and frankly, I will tell you this group (representative of the greater public) do not want to believe that what is going on is going on. They are too polite to have called me a liar, but for sure some of them had that look on their faces.
Busy career people with families and personal lives to take care of. . .not inclined to go find out for themselves even if they think I don’t know what I am talking about. Gave them the blog sites anyway, maybe someone will check them out.
WE HAVE A LOT OF WORK TO DO
I was really struck with how little any of these people know about anything this administration is doing or has done for the past 5 years. They do NOT have a clue.
Without stupid, effing MSM to help in any real way, it is a daunting task to attempt to inform the people who will go in their normally uniformed manner to the voting place and vote for?????oh, someone that someone says they should. . .or from the party they have always voted for. . .or who knows. . .flip a coin.
It seems we need louder and more frequent voices in the places that the “rest of the people” will hear us.
Excellent points, Shirl. Have I mentioned today how much I love the women at this blog? 🙂 You are all so wonderful and amazing.
I don’t know what to do about the media. I’m at a loss. Their bias is killing us, and ever since Republicans were allowed to decimate the public school systems ::shrugs::, I just don’t know what to do about it.
We all love you too, Indy. I don’t know what to do about the media either, wish I did. And don’t get me started on the educational system. . .man, it has been totally destroyed.
Right now it seems the only real “mainstream” informant we have on our side is Oprah. Love her, hate her, or don’t give a damn, she has many millions of devoted watchers. She has been taking on some of these issues quite fearlessly and not apologizing, although she tends not to mention either political party. . .but me thinks any average intelligent person can figure it out. She is reaching far more people than most of us will ever have an opportunity to do. So maybe something WE can do is consistently write to her producers and ask them to talk about these issues that are of great concern to us. If we keep at it, perhaps they will do some programs on these things.
She just this past week has done a two part series on education in America, which she rightly calls a crisis situation.
IF she’s into educating the public, as she seems to be, I think we might just keep hounding her production company to do some programing. Just a thought. Who knows. I am willing to try anything at this point.
HI Shirl-must have been a bit disheartening …how can anyone at least while maybe not visiting blogs not be aware of them to some degree?
I wonder exactly when it became ok for people not to be knowledgeable about or at least have a passing knowledge of what current events and what the government/Congress is up too? I know lots of people mention that people are too busy with their lives but that has always been true and yet it used to be considered an obligation to be informed and vote and not just by the ‘elite’. Other countries have people who no doubt are just as busy with their lives but most countries have much better voting records/turnout than ours.
Some people are actually proud of the fact that they don’t ‘bother with politics’. Every time I read or hear someone in real life stating that I could just scream. It also seems that their are couple reasons for this, one being many people have gotten very cynical and believe it doesn’t make any difference if they vote or take an interest in local/state/national politics which of course compounds the issue and lets lawmakers have even more of a free reign to become corrupt and people who especially since bush took office to believe in what I call faith based voting-those who believe bush and the republicans can do no wrong and will vote repub no matter what. More so than ever before.
I just read some celebrity(can’t remember who offhand) who decided to ‘simplify’ his life by turning off the tv, not reading newspapers and get back to ‘important’ things. I can see maybe turning off the tv but foregoing anything to do with politics or what the government is doing as not being important or having no effect on his life smacks of self centered stupidity.
And as you said Shirl, some people just refuse to believe our government and the MSM could be in any way promoting propaganda….not in this country right.
Hi Choc
I wish I didn’t have to say this, but living in Idaho these past 25 years, I have gotten used to the lazy, irresponsible, and totally incoherent attitudes of the locals when it comes to politics. The cities and towns in SE and NE Idaho with the exception of Pocatello (a college town), is heavily LDS (mormon) and the church has an enormous influence on who they think members should vote for (local, state and Fed). For all the years I was personally associated with the church, it was made very clear that a member in good standing must exclusively support the Republicans, although many good members are Dems. . .ie, Harry Ried of Nevada. The Western side of the state is far less cowed and the two major cites there, Boise and Lewiston are also college towns and rather liberal for Idaho.
For the most part, my opinion is that there is a great sense of powerlessness. A lot of cynicism about all politicians and most feel that their vote doesn’t and won’t matter anyway. So yes, the “I’m so busy” mantra is just an excuse, just as the “they are all crooks” mantra is. Let’s face it, Americans in general are just damn lazy. We never seem to get riled up to the point of doing anything about things that matter until it comes to an absolute crisis point. And, as a nation we seem to be so damn sexually repressed we can forgive a President and his administration for treason, but damn it, that sex stuff in the Whitehoue is just not gonna be acceptable or forgiven for any reason. People here still talk about it and they still think it is the worst thing that a President has ever done. WTF?
As for being so woefully uninformed, Most don’t much read any more, and the newspapers aren’t much more than a delivery system for advertisements. They have so many choices on cable and sattelite tv that most don’t even bother with the news there either. Although, we do have a pretty good news team locally on our ABC affiliate. They often give two views of political issues. Even had a point and counter-point Q&A with Harry Reid and our useless senator Crapo (R, of course) about some issues when Reid was on a Western States “Hey we know you exist” tour recently. Reid was specifically interested in stirring up more support for Dems by the religious mormons locally. . .while Mr Crapo was full of “Oh, no the church takes no stand on one party or the other” BS. Reids point was trying to dispell the myth that good mormons could only vote for Republicans. Mr Crapo insisted there was no such edict in or from the church. Ha!
They are also not big on logic, ie. . .They don’t like Hillary because she is too pushy and too “big for her britches for a woman.” Also they say that Bill would run the presidency. SO. . .she’s too strong and uppity, doesn’t know her place as a woman and yet, Bill would be telling her what to do. Amazing. . .same type of illogic about other issues and candidates.
Also, because Idaho votes so strongly Republican, and is such a small state (1,370,000), the Dems don’t come here, don’t put any effort in here and so people have no idea who they are.
What most seem to want is their government at all levels to run on auto-pilot, stay out of their lives, stop needing more or any taxes from them and just let them get to their reality tv shows when they come home tired from work. They believe what they are told by the politicians, church and the media and it takes forever to counter those lies no matter how overwhelming your facts are to the contrary.
We have about 60% who actually vote here, but why isn’t it 90% or 98%? The rest of America doesn’t come anywhere near that number. Of all registered voters only some measely 52% bother to vote and something like only 54% of those elegible to vote register to vote.
We are LAZY and apathetic, uneducated about our system of government and there is no mass means currently giving out a clear and unpoliticized view of these things. Besides, we would rather watch dufusses eating worms on survivor.
Or it seems so to me.
Guttmacher offers a monthly overview on all aspects of restrictions upon women’s reproductive health–I look to them incessantly!
I don’t buy the “I don’t have time” to be informed…the average American typically views 28 hrs. of TV programming per week.
The same is true for those who claim that they don’t “have time” to vote. What a copout!
A few minutes of research can potentially save a lifetime of agony.
Sheesh.
It’s also about in which state you reside, and your socio-economic status (higher income women have the economic means and mobility to toodle off elsewhere to obtain what they need).
The same misogynistic rant is useful when attempting to deal with the trivialization of women from the triangulated Democratic candidates and activists who marginalize, minimize, and trivialize “single issues” (i.e., “go along to get along bullshit”).
Enough is enough!
When I was born, the Birth Certificate my mother got had a place where my “legitimacy” was to be checked Yes or No. That certificate got replaced by a nice generic one when I needed a copy not long ago for a new passport.
But these days, I’m expecting that little symbol of shame to be returned to public status. It’s a logic step, isn’t it, of denying prenatal vitamins to women who go to full-service women’s health clinics for their prenatal care?
They are saying, in essence, We are going to punish you low-life women by punishing your children every day of their lives, too!
A state pharmacy association (re Cabin Girl citing PA, above) is taking a neutral stance on this issue? NEUTRAL???? Neutral??
Does that mean “We don’t care if our members refuse to fill prescriptions or if they agree to fill prescriptions” ? That sort of reminds me of “we don’t care if______ (insert your favorite protection from the Bill of Rights) is violated or not”.
How can there be a neutral viewpoint for pharmacists on this issue? A “neutral” view is hardly neutral. Rather, it is an invitation to have people do what they will, without challenging them in any way..
I’m not really sure what “neutral” means in this context either. Perhaps they’re chickening out by simply requiring their pharmacists to follow the law, and hoping that the state lege will do the dirty work of making rules about it.
But I agree with you, I don’t think they should have that kind of latitude, and I think that whether there’s a specific law addressing the issue or not, it should be a matter of licensing that they can’t deny any prescription based on their personal moral discretion.
Next thing you know, some idiot will say that anti-bitotics should not be filled, as bacteria is also a living thing.
Hey, bacteria are people too.