Reproduced in full by Floyd’s webmaster and publisher, Richard Kastelein – who posts as Ghandi at myleftwing, Eurotrib and here. And no, we don’t like being Swiftboated – so I am posting this here as we are not allowed to participate at DK.
Original blog post from Empire Burlesque – www.chris-floyd.com
Last week, I was banned from contributing to Daily Kos, apparently for criticizing the Democratic cave-in on Peeper Hayden’s CIA nomination a bit too forcefully. At least I think that was the reason; maybe they just didn’t like the cut of my jib, I don’t know. This banishment to Kossack Siberia is a matter of no great importance, of course, neither to the wider world nor to me, but as the shunning was accompanied by several ugly and false personal accusations against me (and our webmaster here, Richard Kastelein, who was also banned), I thought I would take this opportunity to respond. I wouldn’t want to let swift-boatian slanders enter the public record unchallenged. (Although I suppose I could emulate the exquisite timing of John Kerry, and make a bold stand in my own defense – two years from now.)
Anyway, for anyone interested in this admittedly esoteric subject, the response can be found after the jump.
After the banning, I asked DK if I could respond to the lies and insults of some of the site’s commenters. This request wasn’t granted, but below is the reply I would have posted.
Correcting Some Misapprehensions
As a very occasional diarist on Daily Kos, I seem to have stepped into a controversy that has left me puzzled. I honestly could not figure out why such an uproar had arisen over a short diary that I posted following the overwhelming Senate vote to confirm Gen. Michael Hayden, the operator of the Bush Administration’s covert campaign against the privacy of American citizens, as CIA director. Having thought a bit about the situation, I decided that it sprang largely misapprehensions by some Kos readers — and on my part as well. This is an attempt to correct some of those misapprehensions.
First, I’d like to address the accusation that I’m some kind of “troll,” that I “love being derogatory to Democrats,” etc. This charge is incomprehensible to me. I don’t feel I have to prove my bona fides to anybody in this regard, but perhaps in these overheated days, I do. I published my first piece attacking right-wing Republicans in 1978 — before many of commenters here were even born, I’m sure. I first attacked, in print, the rise of the fanatical, politicized “Christian Right” and its growing symbiosis with the Republican Party in 1982. For almost 30 years, I have been denouncing, in print, in public, this nightmare hard-right movement that has slowly consumed our Republic and now reached its apotheosis in the Bush II administration. To those readers who accuse me of being a troll, of “loving to be derogatory to Democrats,” I can only say: what have you been doing to combat the right-wing for the past 30 years? When did you start speaking out against it, putting your neck on the line in public? Or do you confine yourself only to snarky web comments, under pseudonyms, against anyone who offends your refined sensibilities?
And one more word to those accusers: I support the constitutional Republic of the United States before any political party. And although I have never voted for any candidate who wasn’t a Democrat — and this will be my 30th* year of voting — when I see the leadership of the Democratic Party acting in ways that aid and abet the destruction of the Republic, then by God, I will denounce them for it, and make no apologies for doing so.
Second, I’d like to address the Jason Leopold controversy, since that was drawn into the accuasations against me and probably contributed to the banning as well. In this regard, let me first clear up the quite frankly stupid accusations about me and Rich Kastelein (Ghandi). Rich is the webmaster at the blog I write, Empire Burlesque. He emailed me about the Jason Leopold controversy at Kos; I sent him a response, then did a quick comment, buried miles deep on an existing Kos thread that I thought was an appropriate venue. Maybe it was the wrong thread, I don’t know, or maybe I should have put it in a diary; I could never really get a firm grasp on the somewhat Byzantine court etiquette at DK. (But then again, as an American living in England, I have a hard time getting a firm grasp on the social niceties here as well.)
But that’s it. That’s the extent of the “pseudo-lefty conspiracy” that was bruited by some Kos commenters, who came up with a new axis of evil: Leopold, Kastelein and Floyd. According to these febrile minds, Rich and I are actually one person, deviously posting under separate names, all to do the bidding of the Great Satan in Santa Monica, Leopold, acting as his “sock puppets.” One excitable commenter even suggested that both Rich and I were fictitious creatures, fronts being used by Leopold himself.
I’m sorry these anonymous snark-puppies got themselves all het up, but none of this is true.
I simply wrote my own opinon of the Leopold matter. I’ve never met Jason Leopold, know him only by his work. And my comments dealt solely with his story about the Rove indictment and what I believe is the overreaction to it. Let me state it again: It seems to me that even in the worst-case scenario for the Leopold story, all you would have is that an investigative reporter got burned by his sources. This happens to every reporter; even Sy Hersh has been burned spectacularly on a few occasions. Again, the level of anger and personal animus at Leopold is incomprehensible to me. If the sources were wrong, either unwittingly or deliberately, then the story was wrong. This is an occupational hazard of journalism. Why this should result in such vitriolic personal attacks on Leopold is something I can’t fathom.
Also, every single element of the Plame story and the Fitzgerald investigation has played out very slowly, with the truth emerging only months, even years later. Why should we assume that the denial of Rove’s lawyer simply settles the matter? Why not let it play out and see what happens? Why this rush to pillory an investigator just because his story made some very powerful people uncomfortable for a minute or two? Yet the Kos FAQ now ranks Leopold with Lyndon LaRouche. I have to say — and it gives me absolutely no pleasure to say it — that some of these reactions remind me of old-time Soviet campaigns against someone who has departed from the established line. It was never enough simply to disagree, or to criticize in a rational fashion (e.g., “I think Jason has overstepped the mark here; perhaps his sources haven’t given him reliable information; let’s hold our fire on this story until we can learn more”); no, the target had to be personally smeared, banished, erased from the discourse. Maybe this doesn’t bother other people, but it bothers me.
Anyway, that’s the extent of the “conspiracy.” Rich told me about the Leopold controversy; I posted my own, honest opinion of the affair, made no claims of secret insider knowledge about it; indeed, based most of my comment on what I considered to be the worst-case scenario: that Leopold was wrong. And I offered these opinions – as I have done for 30 years – in my own name, aboveboard, in public. For this, I’ve been transformed into a “troll,” a conspirator, a pseudo-lefty (whatever the hell that is), a sock-puppet controlled by nefarious forces, etc. This isn’t political discourse or honest debate; this is childish nonsense.
But perhaps I’m in the wrong. And I mean that sincerely. Perhaps I have been laboring under a misapprehension about the nature and purpose of the Kos community. I assumed that Daily Kos was a community devoted to dissent against the status quo — against the manifold depredations of the Bush Regime, and also against the prevailing attitudes of quietism, corporatism and collusion that have characterized the Democratic leadership in general during the Bush years. Indeed, Kos himself and the larger DK community have earned a reputation as offering a viable alternative to the outmoded and obviously unsuccessful DLC philosophy. Therefore, based on these assumptions — which I believe are sound — I further assumed that my style of dissent against these same Bush depredations and Democratic failings would be welcome in the Kos community. Not that I expected or wanted everyone to agree with me on every point, but I never thought that either the style or the content of my writings would be considered beyond the pale.
Of course I recognize the need for monitoring comments, diaries etc. on a blog to weed out unacceptable material; I do that myself at my blog. I guess I’m just a bit surprised at where the lines of unacceptability are being drawn these days at Daily Kos.
Again, all this may be down to misapprehensions on my part. As it turns out, it’s obvious that the Kos community wishes to hew to a much more centrist line, in tone and content, than I was aware of. This is a perfectly legitimate line to take. I suppose that my material and style were too strident (as a devoted centrist would see it) to fit in well with the goals of the Kos community, which seem to me to be aimed more at making practical changes in the Democratic Party. Again, a worthy goal.
But I personally am not a party activist. I’m not even a political activist. I don’t have any ideological line to push, secretly or otherwise. I don’t have any “agenda” at all, beyond wanting the government to quit committing so many goddamned crimes in my name, and a rather wan hope that maybe one day society can become more just and enlightened. The old Emersonian ideals still seem good to me. I write when something moves me — often to outrage, but sometimes to hope or inspiration. I write to try to figure out what’s going on in the world, to articulate my understanding of the world for myself and then convey this articulation to others, if I feel it might have some resonance, make some connection, be of some benefit by adding to the weight of dissent against political crime and folly. To borrow Eliot’s phraseology, I write to contribute my fragment to shore up against the ruins. That’s it.
If the way I do this was somehow injurious to or incompatible with the larger interests of the Kos community, then I guess I should be banned. Again, I only started cross-posting some of my material on Kos because I thought that perhaps my fragments might be simpatico with the folks there; since that’s not the case, I’ll simply continue to write elsewhere, and wish Kos and the Kossacks all success in whatever they seek to do.
*CORRECTION: I prematurely aged myself in the draft I posted earlier, referring to my 4oth year of voting. I must have been feeling my arthritis when I wrote that.*
I don’t know much about DK, but I loved this part:
“I don’t have any “agenda” at all, beyond wanting the government to quit committing so many goddamned crimes in my name, and a rather wan hope that maybe one day society can become more just and enlightened. The old Emersonian ideals still seem good to me.”
Props from me on that.
.
In his essay “Self-Reliance” (1841), he called on his readers to strive for true individuality in the face of intense social pressures for conformity: “Society everywhere is in conspiracy against the manhood of every one of its members….The virtue in most request is conformity….Whoso would be a man must be a nonconformist.”
Although Emerson himself was not an active reformer (he once wrote that whenever he saw a reformer, he felt like asking, “What right, Sir, do you have to your one virtue?”), his philosophy inspired many reformers far more radical than he. His stress on the individual, his defense of nonconformity, and his vocal critique of the alienation and social fragmentation that had accompanied the growth of cities and industry led others to try to apply the principles of transcendentalism to their personal lives and to society at large.
Henry David Thoreau (1817-1862) was one of the transcendentalists who strove to realize Emersonian ideals in his personal life. A pencilmaker, surveyor, and poet, Thoreau, like Emerson, was educated at Harvard.
"But I will not let myself be reduced to silence."
▼ ▼ ▼ MY DIARY
gandhi,
This is an excellent piece, and normally I stand up for those unfairly booted from Kos. And I didn’t even know you were banned.
But you weren’t just banned for the reasons you stated. Your comment record on Kos contains at least 50 to 100 hidden comments–if not more–for some very inflammatory material. I myself troll-rated you on more than one occasion…
Do all of us banned ones a favor.
Show us some of the hidden comments you reference. I for one would be quite curious about what crosses the line at a blog the level of which is so damned low in the first place these days. Whenever I go look at something there the vast majority of the comments sound like they were written by people whose lips move when they read. And who only read things on the general level of a left wing version of Readers Digest.
Is THIS the future of the Democratic Party?
Spare us.
I was banned there too…with NEVER a comment hidden.
As were hundreds…thousands?…of others.
It is not a healthy environment, that place.
So naturally…it is now the blog of record.
America.
Hip deep in shallow waters.
Left, right AND center.
“EVERYBODY OUT OF THE WATER!!! SHARKS HAVE BEEN SIGHTED!!!”
AG
That is pretty fucking funny. “It’s not a healthy environment that place. So now it’s the blog of record.”
Fucking America. Got to love it.
Here is an example of a comment in response to Plutonium Page:
Trollrated by:
Ducktape, knowthings, Rita in DC, LeftHandedMan, Plutonium Page, shpilk, Eternal Hope, missLotus, Loquatrix, hhex65, Moody Loner, Caldonia, One bite at a time, ChiGirl88, thereisnospoon, vansterdam, Rick Oliver, Quotefiend, mike101, Crowdog, wiscmass, Distaste for Dissent, Ellicatt, Dvalkure, Truza, dougymi, vox humana
Unless you take into consideration your attacks on Chris Floyd for being being ‘unpatriotic’.
Whom you have pretty much driven out of Daily Kos… after I spent a long time pointing him this way.
It’s too bad.
Unfortunately there are too many armchair DK blog warriors googling their way to self indulgent masturbatory glee like yourself.
Chris Floyd?
He has been a writer and editor for more than 20 years, working in the United States, Great Britain and Russia for various newspapers, magazines, the U.S. government and Oxford University.
Who are you?
Some dude on the dole in the Dam’ with too much time and nothing to do? And I have to read your drivel on the front page. What a shame.
by ghandi on Thu May 18, 2006 at 05:28:34 PM EDT
[ Parent | Reply to This ]
Need some more? It was really quite a pissing contest.
That comment should not have been troll rated. It’s Plutonium Page, the uber knowitall, who should be troll rated, if anybody.
Back when I was on DK, I had a diary about the risk of nuclear strikes on the U.S., a topic I continue to be concerned about. She made a comment, pompously stating that my concerns were ignorant, because you need plutonium for an A-bomb (which is hard to get), not uranium. This is from someone with “Plutonium” in her name who pretends to be a scientist. I corrected her, pointing out the the Hiroshima bomb was a uranium bomb and it’s standard to make A-bombs from enriched uranium. I immediately got jumped and beat up real good by legions of her fanboys. She’s one of the main reasons I’m glad to be gone from that site.
thereisnospoon and others were clearly wrong to troll rate this comment, in my opinion.
As fascinating as all this is, do we really need to have an extended rehashing of shit that happened at Daily Kos over here?
Do we need a ratings war here, so we don’t have to discuss ratings wars from other sites?
Everyone knows, or should know, that I am not a big fan of bringing orange unpleasanantness over here.
It’s out of respect to Ghandi that I didn’t ask him to erase this diary, since it is technically against the rules to post a diary attacking Kos’s site unless you cross-post it there. And, in this case, I know that is an impossibility.
But it is still against the rules for a reason. I don’t want us to become an anti-Kos site, or the place every banished Kossack comes to stir up shit.
Sorry. Point taken.
Please delete my comment there, if you wish. You’ve been clear on this in the past, and some of this is certainly insensitive to your concerns and loyalties. I apologize for extending this tonight.
But until I saw this diary, I thought I was only one of a few and thought I had done something wrong.
I think this is one of the reasons we have one of these occasional anti-DailyKos diaries here. (Gosh, I’ve been here for pushing a year, I think.) There really are a lot of DailyKos exiles here. Feels like home to DailyKos junkies as we were.
Could be that this place is what that place was before it became very large and succesful. Two best blogging…a long time ago with in an open-thread started by “cookesandmilk” asking who likes cheese. And here watching the Colts & Steelers game with shermanesq..and someone els.
BooMan…
I think there are apples AND oranges in this barrel.
It only takes one rotten apple, it is true. But rotten oranges are even worse.
What we have…the passion with which much of the cream of the original orange crop tries to shine a light on what has happened there…is NOT “anti-Kos”.
It is anti-co-opting.
And it is NOT about stirring up shit.
It is about bitter disappointment that the original promise of dKos has disappeared under a blizzard of mediocrity and privilege.
And it is about trying to warn others both about what dKos has become and also the dangers that face every attempt at freedom.
ESPECIALLY free discourse in opposition to today’s otherwise hyper-controlled information environment.
I do not know nor do I particularly care exactly “how” dKos fell into its present place of lockstep, regimented agreement with itself. Whether it was taken over by paid agents of the PermaGov, whether some of its leaders’ weaknesses were skilfully bought into by said establishment, whether that’s just what happens when you get too big in this world, or whether it is perhaps some combination of these and other factors.
I just do not give much of a shit.
What IS important is that it happened. That the same thing can happen anywhere if people do not maintain the same kind of eternal vigilance referred to by the Lord Mayor of Dublin, John Philpot Curran way back there in 1790.
“The condition upon which God hath given liberty to man is eternal vigilance; which condition if he break, servitude is at once the consequence of his crime, and punishment of his guilt.”
Instead of not erasing the diary out of respect to ghandi, you ought to front page it out of respect to the remaining left.
As a warning.
I am no particular fan of Cliff Floyd OR Jason Leopold and I know less than nothing about ghandi, but I DO know that dKos has become a regressive force, and a BIG one.
The current dKos lovefest in Las Vegas sounds more like a political party convention than a website meetup, and all the middle of the roaders who are giving lavish parties in the hopes of becoming the next darling of “the left” are there for votes.
Nothing else.
DKos got BIG, BooMan, and it got dangerous, too.
BostonJoe commented on something I wrote:
Well, I liked what followed better.
Hip deep in shallow waters.
Left, right AND center.
And when people write about this danger…this lack of eternal vigilance and the courage and intelligence that are necessary in order to PRODUCE such vigilance in the new blog of record, the virtual Grey Lady…it is NOT Kos-bashing.
It is MEDIOCRITY bashing.
It is raising the red flag so that perhaps others will not be fooled.
Not be co-opted.
THIN ICE!!! BEWARE. WILL NOT BEAR MUCH REAL WEIGHT. TAKE ANOTHER PATH.
There is a difference.
Later…
AG
here, here.
or the place every banished Kossack comes to stir up shit.
You know, this might just be a goldmine of realistic talent. Don’t refuse a gift from the gods when it comes your way! As Al Pacino said in The Scent of a Woman
and I absolutely stand behind my word.
Plutonium Page as targeting Floyd as an Anti-American – which was complete bullshit.
And as he lives in the same country as I do… as an expat in the Netherlands – I felt he deserved a barb or two for his consistent bullshit attacks on Floyd.
Fuck him – the man is ignorant.
I have no qualms about my statements at DK and they are MINE. Not Floyd’s.
I am proud of that comment. Plutonium Page is pathetic.
Apparently the catalyst for this flame war was Jason Leopold’s failure to predict Karl Rove’s indictment.
Recommended by:
OCD, deepintheheartoftx, dannyinla, ghandi, cronyrodeo
Trollrated by:
als10, hhex65, Rick Oliver, Bouwerie Boy
Well, if you think banning a journalist like Jason Leopold because he may — or may not — have been burned by his sources on a particular story (which happens to every investigative reporter, even Sy Hersh) will “improve” Daily Kos, then I assume you will now be banning any diaries that use ABC News as a source? After all, Hastert’s people have denied the ABC report he’s under investigation, just like Karl Rove’s people denied his indictment. And if Daily Kos now takes the word of Karl Rove as gospel, then why not sanctify Dennis Hastert as well? Shouldn’t ABC now be ranked with loonies like Lyndon LaRouche, and banished to Kossack Siberia?
I think banning any reporter or news source that reports something that makes powerful Republicans uncomfortable for even a few minutes is a wonderful idea — if your aim is to sell out the progressive movement in order to prove that you’re a “safe pair of hands” for a nice job somewhere in the Hillary Clinton administration, that is. It’s a wonderful move if what you want to do is merely replace the current craven Democratic power structure with another craven Democratic power structure. If, however, your goal is to foster a genuine, vibrant alternative to the corruption and cowardice that now reigns in both parties and which has led the Democrats to aid and abet the Bush Regime’s depradations at every turn, then no, I think banning good sources and investigators that may get burned from time to time (although I don’t think that’s true in either Leopold’s or ABC’s case) is a lousy idea. If Daily Kos is just going to be another cautious, safe, “hey, wouldn’t it be neat to be one of those ‘West Wing’ guys for real!?” locus of cautious centrism, then what’s the point? Why not just read USA Today?
(And by the way, the big telecoms have denied USAT’s NSA spy story. Surely, just like Rove and Hastert, they would never lie, would they? So shouldn’t you boot any diary that uses USA Today as a source now?)
Chris Floyd
The Moscow Times
Empire Burlesque
by Chris Floyd on Thu May 25, 2006 at 06:10:37 AM EDT
[ Reply to This ]
[new] Troll Alert! Chris Floyd / Ghandi (2+ / 0-)
Recommended by:
dnta, dj angst
Oh boy Chris, how very, very cute. You come into a diary that is trying to address some important nuts and bolts issues at the Daily Kos to complain about the way your friend and colleague, Jason Leopold is being treated by this community all the while abusing said community which you claim to be so concerned about by making use of two separate user accounts and identities to shill for Leopold. Jeralyn Merritt at Talk Left posted yesterday about what appeared to be a concerted effort on the part of Leopold’s supporters to dial back and soften the criticism of his work.I suppose what is on display here is part of that manipulation. Probably motivated by the recent change in the DK FAQ.
Chris Floyd uid 74212
Ghandi uid 73967
Both posting since late April 2006
Here is the email and web address posted on Ghandi and Chris Floyd’s detail pages…
Website: http://www.chris-floyd.com
Email: admin@chris-floyd.com
Ghandi appears to be the sock puppet account. Yes? Ghandi even uprated this comment. Very clever. Tell me, did you learn this technique from Leopold? Are you Leopold?
Oh, by the way, don’t bother to alter your settings. I took screen shots.
“Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.” ~ Diderot
by Bouwerie Boy on Thu May 25, 2006 at 09:25:25 AM EDT
[ Parent | Reply to This ]
o
* [new] I am Richard Kastelein (0 / 0)
The web developer for Empire Burlesque.
Otherwords.
admin@chris-floyd.com
and yes I did uprate his post.
DK techs will confirm my IP is in the Netherlands and Chris Floyd is in Oxford, the United Kingdom – where he lives and works as an American expatriate for the University.
So you are already eating crow.
My bio is here
http://www.chris-floyd.com/...
Floyd’s is here
http://www.chris-floyd.com/...
Do you still feel smug?
by ghandi on Thu May 25, 2006 at 10:06:13 AM EDT
[ Parent | Reply to This ]
Nothing to troll rate here. Just a standard Daily Kos pitchfork party.
Almost all diaries can be recommended; the exceptions are those that are posted directly to the front page. To recommend a diary, click on it, and then click on the ‘Recommend’ button on the right side of the window. Diaries can only be recommended in the first 24 hours after posting. When should you recommend a diary? Very simply, recommend a diary if you think other dkos users should read it. That may mean that the diary is covering a breaking news story, or it has an insightful bit of analysis, or even is an extremely funny bit of humor. Note that diaries can have much more content in the comments than in the main text; it is perfectly legitimate to recommend a diary because of an interesting discussion in the comments. Don’t recommend a diary simply because of who the author is.
Note: Please use common sense when recommending diaries. Diaries that rely entirely on unreliable sources such as Wayne Madsen, Capitol Hill Blue, Jason Leopold, or Lyndon LaRouche are generally not considered acceptable. Recommending poorly sourced conspiracy theory diaries may result in banning without warning for all recommenders.
Like it or not, that is the current policy from the FAQ. The flap is over the inclusion of Jason Leopold in the list. As the comment above was from a diary (by suskind) asking for suggestions about how to fix the rating system.
Jeez. Nothing like legalism. This is a Taliban attitude, not a Democratic attitude, in my opinion.
This is the section that was added by one Diskosopedia user on the 22nd of May. In theory, as I am a Diskosopedia user, I could go in and edit any bit of the FAQ, and them’s da rules according to me.
As they used to say:
“Can I get a witness?”
Oh. So you’re a cop. I will remember this when I read your prolix postings.
Now that I know that, I am not going to bother reading them.
<sigh>
No, not a cop. But I do censure incredibly rude and insensitive comments from time to time on Kos.
Thereisnospoon, despite whatever you’ve written before, this might be the single most disgusting post I’ve yet seen on BMT. And I’ve been reading pretty much since the Boomantributary formed.
What you accuse ghandi of, thereof you should present the evidence. I’m not a lawyer, but I think it’s called habeas corpus.
And if you want to show us readers that ghandi deserved what ghandi got, it’s a simple matter. Post the “inflammatory material.”
Present the body of evidence, or just shut up.
If ghandi posted material on dKos that you think is infuriating, that you think I as a reader would find infuriating enough to justify a banning, I as a reader would like to see it.
And you, as a writer of truth, would want me to see it.
Your last sentence, completed with the generally lamentable “dot-dot-dot”, suggests not so much an attempt to communicate with the audience as a threat to ghandi, the interlocutor. (But still an attempt to influence the audience.) The use of “I myself” (“even I, moderate as I am…”) is a similarly cheap and recognizable tactic.
Why do you do this?
Why do you do this?
I’d like to see it too. And IMO, if thereisnospoon refuses to post it, that could aslo be contrued as a threat to the readers and writers on this site.
I second this thought.
Upthread, Kos is accused of being a paid consultant for the party. The statement clearly infers that Markos is CURRENTLY in that position. No proof at all. And no one crying foul about an unsubstantiated accusation in the least. Rather, just people thoroughly happy to jump on bashing the Big Orange. Yet you demand proof of the hidden comments which got the diarist banned. How about some proof of both please?
Logical flaws! Logical flaws!
While chivalric, I doubt Kos needs paladins to defend him. You’re comparing apples and oranges, and thereby missing a main point. It is not material to the discussion whether or not Kos is currently or ever was a “paid” consultant, as if any of that made any difference. That’s just a side shot. And it’s a side shot that seems to be true. In contrast, the demand about hidden comments is central to the point of this diary.
You’re advocating an absurdity. There are scores or hundreds of facts asserted in this thread, each of which arguably could have a 1,000 word Wiki article, each of which could have links to many other articles, and so forth. That’s not necessary. And there is no logical link between Kos being a consultant and the hidden comments, so you don’t have a good reason for demanding special treatment for the Kos assertion.
…basically what hangs from the trees at Dkos. It is a party-loyal site. One of the “whips” regularly excercises reinforcement of “party loyalty”.
And sneezing and letting Hayden thru (even with 4 kisses, from Feinstein, Levin, Rockefeller and Mikulski) was the plan.
LOL not hard to notice they “bitch and capitulate” at the site. Much like the party.
Marisacat
They’ve bought their own propaganda. They’re convinced that making the Republicans look like they’re corrupt and can do whatever they want will get them seats in the fall. Alas, it is not to be so. They’ll get labelled as collaborators, the voter turnout will drop, and the Republicans will gain seats with candidates who “run against” Bush’s policies and then have miraculous changes of heart once they’re in office.
In other words, exactly the same shit they pulled in 2000, 2002, and 2004.
Why exactly do people think the Democratic party is worth supporting, again?
Senator Boxer did not vote. Rockefeller didn’t either. I still can’t figure this out. Specter voted no, the only Republican to do so.
I swear a year or more ago censorship was unheard of on DKOS, and they were anything but DNC mainstream. I am definately beginning to sense a change in the direction to what you refer to above, and I wonder why. Did KOS change?
I will say, no I will guarantee this point, that when sites begin banning/censoring legitimate comments, then they begin turning into nothing but cheerleading sites which then fail to be creditable in the world at large. It is the beginning of their end.
If I controlled a popular website, I might intervene on posters whose main objective was to kill my site because they were afraid of me, and the did this with illegitimate/irrational postings. I admit this is a tough call at the margin. However, when clearly legitimate posts are banned because of a narrow political strategy, I would not allow that and would know that once I crossed over into allowing that, then my site’s future as a productive device was over!
I’m not a Democrat, so I always consider myself something of a sojourner at dKos. Over the years, there’s been less and less of a non-Democratic presence on the site (once upon a time there were even non-troll-like conservatives).
While I once tried to maintain that, regardless of what Kos said, dKos was more a progressive online community than a Democratic site, that fight is now well lost. It’s an aggressively Democratic site. I spend less and less time there.
But what saddens me most about dKos is not its partisan nature (and I do think it’s very unfortunate that most of the “left” of the blogosphere is so partisan, as it limits how left things get there), but rather the dKos leadership’s cramped notion of what’s acceptable for Democrats to say.
Like a lot of other progressives Democrats in the 1990s, I was faced with the spectacle of my party moving unacceptably rightward. Welfare “reform” was the last straw, but there had been many steps down that path: so-called “free” trade, the Telecommunications Act, the refusal to consider single-payer when reforming healthcare, “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell,” the Lani Guinier crucifixion, the refusal to cash in the Cold War peace dividend, “three strikes” laws, an obsession with fiscal conservatism. I could go on.
My choices, broadly speaking, were two: try to move the Democratic Party leftward, or build something else instead. My first choice was to try to do both by working for the New Party. It was an interesting effort that failed for a variety of reasons, most of which are beyond the scope of this discussion.
But one of the important reasons that the New Party gained so little traction was that there seemed to be little desire among progressive Democrats to move the Democratic party leftward. That’s still the case today. Progressives Democrats have proven all too easy to reign in. Following the extraordinary success of the Jackson campaign in 1988, in the late ’80s and early ’90s, the Democratic left was muzzled via the old DLC strategy of arguing that you had to move to the center to win elections.
Now that it’s clear that moving to the center does not win elections, an even emptier rationale is given: we need “Fighting Democrats.” Partisanship for partisanship’s sake is sold as if its the solution to the party’s woes. This then becomes — among other things — an excuse to silence critics of the party’s leadership which is (incidentally?) dominated by the center-right. Joe Lieberman has become the token Democrat you’re allowed to beat up on, but entirely because he’s insufficiently partisan, not because he’s too rightwing (Ben Nelson is just fine, thank you very much).
But while the party is fiercely patrolling its left flank, it has no interest in imposing actual party discipline on important issues facing the nation like the federal estate tax and the war on Iraq. In both cases, the position of the party’s electoral base is clear (pro-estate tax; anti-Iraq war), while party elites lean the other direction. The best the party leadership can do is lamely celebrate its “diversity” on these key issues.
The dirty secret behind all of these machinations is that the leading groups in the party despise the left. Ever since 1972 (and to some extent 1968), these party elites have been afraid that the left might capture the party. And though they tend to express their fears in terms of electability (i.e. if the left takes over the party, we’re sure to lose), their greatest fear is exactly the opposite: that the left might win.
The sad truth is that so long as a website (or a political organization) is designed first and foremost to support the Democratic Party as presently constituted, it will necessary limit the expression of ideas and positions that are too far to the left (which is not, in fact, very far at all). In this sense, dKos is but a symptom of a much larger political disease.
I think there’s something wierd going on at Daily Kos, and it’s nothing that anyone, even Kos, should take personally.
He has put up a site where there are hundreds of millions of visits and even more page views annually. That is a fuck of a lot of page views and annual visits.
Daily Kos is getting close to 90,000 registered users. That is a fuck of a lot of registered users.
On top of that, like BT and other blogs, DK has a software in place that enables the “community” to moderate and confer troll status and/or trustworthiness upon users.
It’s a pretty amazing software, but there’s still lots of room for improvement. In fact, my intuition for better or worse is that Daily Kos is vulnerable to being gamed by a gang of RNC trolls who know how to work within the system to marginalize and ridicule dissenting opinions that are especially dangerous to the Mobsters who have hijacked the US government. Such as WTF happened on 9/11 really?
I am personally dismayed by this ban on discussing “conspiracy theories” since it amounts to censorship, quite frankly. But if you are executing a software that facilitates human community in an area where there’s so much violent contraversy, suppressing discussion of the most contraversial subjects is a logical choice. Not that I’m a Daily Kos apologist, by any means.
The two most interesting diaries I read today I could only access because I’m able to see Hidden Comments, and the best diary I read today, about John Bolton’s role in the CIA leak investigation, scrolled away into oblivion while people snarked joyously on highly recommended diaries about lurkers and troll ratings. Huh?
Daily Kos is a force to be reckoned with. I have been burned there, so I know there are personalities involved that are far from enlightened. But given the magnet Daily Kos has become, let’s just assume — conspiracy theories aside — that some serious resources are being invested to disrupt what goes on there.
Just, IMHO, of course! I could be totally wrong about this.
I agree..being trolled rated by persons with UID’s 55,000 (+) left with a strange feeling. I had a mid 15,000 UID, and never been troll rated so many high UID’s before.
It’s a sad commentary on the state of our society that so many people seem to see their ability to troll-rate others the same way many others see their badge or uniform; as a mechanism of authority by which they can exercise power over others for their own gratification.
I know many people who have pets for a similar reason; they need to be the “master” over another being.
Personally I’ve never troll-rated anyone for posting a perspective or opinion I disagreed with, (and I quite disagree with a ot of things I read here in the blogosphere), no matter how ugly that perspective might be. But I have troll-rated people who’s comments are deliberatly proffered to disrupt and derail relevant conversation, especially when those comments contain nothing of substance, but only vitriol and bluster.
I troll rated Sharon Jumper once for going on how her son and his buddies were over in Iraq raising hell and had gotten their sign on bonuses and thought it was funny as shit that the idiots that had joined the Air Force and the Navy to avoid combat and were having to serve on the ground over there with no bonuses. Hmmmmm raising hell in Iraq, funny as hell, joined the Air Force and Navy to avoid I got my mothafuckin troll rater out and I slapped that shit right down on that!
That is some seriously sick shit she was going on about.
Why does that name “Sharon Jumper” sound familiar?
On another, unrelated note, I want to say that I think of you now in my mind as “TitaniumTracy” rather than MilitaryTracy after your recounting of the titanium rib pursuit on behalf of your child. (I mean no slight against the military by this either; it’s just that your titanium exploits eclipse every other defining attribute of you in my mind by a quantum leap.) I’ve wanted to tell you this for a while now but the opportuity to do so in the context of a diary or comment thread just didn’t present itself, so I’m just saying it to you now.
My respect and admiration for you is unmeasurable.
I think that is very cool, thank you. After Iraq becomes the past I think it would be great to change my screen name to Titaniumtracy. My focus would be so much more on creating win/win situations and the crazy militant Militarytracy would drift away into the dusty blogosphere archives.
because she troll rate me frequently
They are too afraid to troll rate Mistress Tracy. I might put a hex on them and lightening might fry their little asses in the parking lot of the grocery store! Fear me you little Kocksacks……..I will find you!
Well therre’s something weird going on in the country, some fascistic mindset sweeping across American consciousness and it is cropping up everwhere. I can’t help but think the weirdness at DailyKos is sort of a reflection of the disease of the culture at large.
Yesterday, on DK in fact, someone posted a very frightening diary about being kicked out of the baptist church that they had been life long members of, when it was taken over by some creeping ultra conservative elements. And now we have video games whose theme is to kill all people who won’t convert to Christianity.
I keep telling myself it can’t happen here, our fine American tradition of individualism will somehow prevent a fascist takeover, but the signs are ominous that a significant amount of the country has given itself up to group think, even in supposedly liberal circles, and I feel afraid and helpless this morning.
We are in the last throes of something, I just don’t know what. My fiancee says it is the failure of capitalism that we are witnessing, nd we will just have to flounder around until we find a better way. I hope he’s right, and it’s not the failure of human enlightenment that is really going on.
At least there are good, smart people here, and that gives me hope.
We’re in the first throes of the decline of empire. There’s quite a ways to go yet, but it looks to me as though we’ve passed the point of no return in a way that the “reptile brain” recognizes.
When this happens reason disintegrates and emotion and ignorance become weaponized. Fear and hopelessness replace ingenuity and determination and the result is increased violence and the militarization of the planet.
I have said this before and I will say it again: It seems to me that all of the better writers leave or get banned. I have been wondering for a long time if there is some jealousy on the part of some on dkos re: that, and that is a major part of the problem.
Interesting and insightful comment.
I mean, compared to the crap that is frontpaged and gets rec’d, there have been some gems that have been completely ignored.
I’d like to throw out some more perspective. It’s about the size of dkos and site metrics. I’m getting really annoyed with the whole “90k users, hundreds of thousands of page views… biggest place in town, etc.”
I’m in the ad biz. I’ve spent years building websites and analyzing data. And I call bullshit on dkos.
I could go on but I won’t. Point is, Kos’ numbers don’t mean squat and any ad person knows it… which is probably why Time Warner stopped advertising on the site… they had their own metrics going and saw that they were paying way too much for the same people to see their ads.
Whew, glad I got that off my chest, it’s been bugging me for a while now.
And aside from that, there’s the issue of what qualifies as an active user. Is it someone who reads the front page once a day? Comments once a week? Once a day? Posts a diary once a month?
I virtually guarantee that DK does not have even 10K regular users in the sense of posting regular comments and occasional diaries, reading linked news stories, or even reading anything but the most-recommended diaries. I’m betting that most of his “active users” just scan the front page as part of a daily news trawl and move on.
Like I say below, statistics only gets you half way there. I’m just trying to be positive here, and — even though I’ve had bad experiences at Daily Kos — I guess I’m not that bitter. It is what it is.
And (take three), I’m not an apologist for Daily Kos, and am not here to defend the site, or him, only to offer some perspective, IMHO, for whatever it’s worth.
Glad my comment could help you unload! Like I say, I am not an apologist for Daily Kos.
But…. if you don’t think Daily Kos is “big,” go look at the line up of guests and guest speakers appearing at Yearly Kos in Las Vegas this month. Impressive. Of course I’m not going, but… impressive. Joseph Wilson, George Lakos, Barbara Boxer…. all people I would dearly love to meet.
Looking at it from the ad perspective is helpful, but you are only speculating as to Time Warner’s reasons for not advertising there. Time Warner is Big Corporate Media, so there could be other reasons. Is it possible to find out?
Statistics don’t tell the whole story. Counting page views, refreshes, UIDs is useful, but there’s a lot more to it. Markos is everywhere and, for better or worse, he’s in the vanguard of getting bloggers recognized as legitimate journalists. It’s not happening yet, there are still lots of gray areas, and Markos is not the only one, but he is having an impact.
I have never been banned from Daily Kos, and have only been troll-rated on one occassion, and that’s when someone who shall be nameless (but who’s name begins with A) and his pack dogs ganged up on me because they disagreed with something I said. But this happened a long time ago. December of 2004, during the Ohio Diary Wars, to be exact.
I still go over there because there are some excellent, informative, writers who I really respect. But I keep my nose clean. Just cuz I’m kinda thin-skinned and don’t like to fight. MilitaryTracy is my hero though! {{{{{{{MT}}}}}}}
There are a lot of immature people, some rude, some just inexperienced with netiquette, and I sense that there’s some subversive disruption going on. Once on Craig’s List someone mentioned in a discussion thread that the RNC hires people to troll progressive websites. When I went back I couldn’t find the reference, since it would have been interesting to follow up, but…. I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised. Would you?
kos is big, the community isn’t. By jumping on the party line, giving credibility to the sell-outs, and quashing the real left-wing at every opportunity, he’s made himself invaluable to people like Reid.
He’s a consultant. He’s now in the business of making money by losing elections.
The truth stings baby!
“….now in the business of making money by losing elections…” Very depressing and scary thought.
Think about the “Daily Outrage” for a second. Sure, the Bush administration atrocity of the day gets a lot of attention. It gets kos a lot of traffic, and a lot of comments. It gets his backers a lot of donations. It reinforces the convenient myth of Democrats as Plucky Underdogs.
It does absolutely nothing to motivate people on the ground to win elections. In fact, it does the opposite. It makes them complacent. It encourages “things are so bad, how can we lose?” thinking. It drives voters away with “why you shouldn’t vote for them” talk instead of “why you should vote for us” talk.
I’ve been toying with writing a diary on this for months, but I’ve never felt like I have enough material. I think I’ll give it a shot today.
“It does absolutely nothing to motivate people on the ground to win elections.”
Great starting point!
I don’t think Markos is doing anything to get bloggers recognized as serious journalists. I think his site, which provided good writers a platform has helped with the cause… thinking specifically about Meteor Blades, Georgia10, SusanHu, SusanG, Darksyde, etc. A lot of reporters writing about the site specifically mention that he ain’t that good of a writer, nor does he break any stories. Personally, I think the stuff we did on Plamegate/ Gannon alongside Americablog, HuffPost, Bradblog, ePluribus media, etc. have done much more for that cause than Kos has.
And the same goes for YearlyKos. It wasn’t his idea, he didn’t organize it, he didn’t invite the speakers, etc. Some a-listers are speaking because it’s a good idea to and one, Joe Wilson, probably feels a bit of an obligation to since we helped him get his story out to the blogosphere (I say “we” because I wrote the Gannon/ Plame timeline and summary and asked questions of Wilson for one of Susan’s interviews with him).
That being said, yeah it is big in terms of influence on the DLC though… 😉
In terms of Time Warner, no, I don’t know for sure, it is speculation, but I know how online media buying works and site traffic and unique users has a lot to do with if you continue the buy. They’re still advertising online, just not on dkos. If it was working for them they would keep doing it. Not cold hard facts by any means, but reasoned speculation 🙂
{{{{{mythmother}}}}} good to see you!
“I think his site, which provided good writers a platform has helped with the cause… thinking specifically about Meteor Blades, Georgia10, SusanHu, SusanG, Darksyde, etc.”
That’s all I’m saying. I have nothing against Markow or his blog, personnally, although I have been on the receiving end of some serious shit there.
IMHO the American system of government has been hijacked by a band of very devious, clever, and unimaginably wealthy and powerful criminals. Capitalism is colonialism. Plain and simple. Amass great wealth at the expense of labor and enlist an army of desperate underpaid soldier/policemen to defend your empire.
“Capitalism is colonialism.”
Truer words were never typed, mythmother.
Hmmmm…. do I room for one more subversive bumpersticker ?
Right on point.
Precisely.
AG
You write:
Precisely.
The tactics are the true message.
People can say anything that they want about issues. But when they ACT in a decidedly anti-democratic manner, then what they say means less than nothing.
You also write:
Yes.
You WERE wrong.
Their alternative IS “viable”. They are playing by the kind of hardball rules that the pros and spinners who run the PermaGov instinctively understand.
“Oh. They’re like US!!! Welcome in.”
And magically dKos et al becomes the official alternative.
Shoulda named the book “Burning The Bridges” instead of “Storming The Gates”.
Disagree and you are left on the other side.
But now you know.
So it goes.
Keep telling the truth as you see it. Contributing your fragment to shore up against the ruins.
That IS it.
That is the best that free men and women can do in a situation like this.
Maybe we have gotten too big.
If so…we WILL be diminished.
So THAT goes as well.
Later…
AG
There’s a great quote by Hannah Arendt;
A really cool Buddhist guy used to remark that one of the greatest hardships to a guru was to keep himself from succumbing to the lure of the power inherent in the wisdom he was conveying to others; to remain unsullied and unmoved by the temptation of such power to corrupt him.
Like the millionaire mannequins who’ve reached the top of the heap in the media world, Matthews, Russert, Kurtz, etc.), like the long term politicians who are now part of the furniture in DC and who are so full of their own arrogance that they’re barely even coherent anymore as they pontificate, it is similarly easy for situations in the blogosphere to get out of hand, out of balance also as power and influence accrues in concentrated areas and prominent players begin to imagine themselves important arbiters of public discourse as a result of their position rather than of their ideas.
I will always have great respect for what Daily Kos acomplished as far as initiating a template for the public voice that empowered the citizenry in a (ultimately) transformative way. But I spend very little time scroling through the commentary there these days, not because I’m a snob, but because there’s so much irrelevant and off-point stuff to wade through just to pick out the relevant and insightful bits.
Only reason that I xpost there is in the hope that someone who just reads it will see wtf is really going on w/part d.
This really is like an exile camp. I’d been wondering where all the good writers and insightful people had gone! Now I’m just stumbling across bodies. LOL!
Yes I am.
Check out My left Wing as well for more exiles and a slightly different flavor of resistance.
Outside of the monochromatic dKos group…there’s a rainbow.
AG
I was banned and scrubbed from the cache..just look what happen to 2 1/2 years of posting?
http://www.dailykos.com/user/americanforliberty/comments
but i live on in the google cache…
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=americanforliberty&btnG=Google+Search
so join the crowd..but I don’t miss orange as much as I thought I would.
the cache? This could be a good thing for some of the really tenacious people….like me…..who have become so frustrated I have said that some people have seriously needed to pull their heads out of their own asses. I hate it when I LOSE MY MIND that badly, “put the keyboard down Tracy and step back slowly with your hands in the air”.
I didn’t lose my mind, but when a minuteman appears at the orange,…don’t bring a knife to a guy fight…Plus, there was a really good exchange with a person who said I could get my green card just by having a child in the U.S…I admit I probably should have lied to a liar, but it was really priceless conversation.
My best friends who trolled rated me, Sooner, BobOak,..etc. I even got troll rated by Sallycat.
to a gun fight..
You didn’t get scrubbed from the site. Click the “search archive” box and all your comments are there.
Anything over a month or so old gets archived.
Not to differ with you WTP, because I always liked reading your stuff..but I couldn’t find anything in the archives either.
http://www.dailykos.com/search?offset=0&old_count=30&string=americanforliberty&type=comm
ent&sortby=comments&search=Search&count=30&wayback=1440&wayfront=0&search_ar
chive=yes
you searched on “comments”, instead of “comments by”…
here are your comments.
Yes thank you, I found that out and was coming back to correct the error. Now do you think we can find someone to scrub them.
Anyway, why I haven’t seen any diaries over here WTP.
I found your comments there, you have to check archive, and put the limits of your search 3 years to today. Things are bad, but not as bad as you think.
was considered a badge of honor around here.
What do I know, I just lurk in both places. But I agree with most above that the self-appointed troll police are the biggest problem with dkos right now.
Well I’m glad I found Booman. I thought KOS was a “progressive” community and I rarely post a comment but about a month ago someone wrote a stupid diary about health care (my spouse and I are both in health care for over 30 years so I think I know a tad more than some KOS idiot who read a newspaper article)and I posted some comments–mostly about how misleading the newspaper article was and my main point being that it was a persuasive article meant to deceive–and some KOS asshole troll rated me and said things like “busted”. I was just blown away by how stupid he was and how could he troll rate me for having an opinion about journalism? Also accused me of the hidden agenda bullshit, I was flabbergasted. I’m no troll I am actually way liberal however my main trademark is that I actually know how to think, something that those doing the troll ratings over at KOS don’t know how to do. I mean it’s one thing to be at odds with all the rednecks and neocons in this country, at KOS they are paranoid and eat their young.
I got banned myself from DK about a year ago, after being a regular member from almost the very start of the site. It’s a den of crazy reactionaries. They’re not nearly as important as they think. Don’t buy into it. There are many much better sites, such as this one.
DK has been going downhill. I’m not in the mood for a bunch of long-winded sociological speculation about why that is. Therefore, I just deleted some of that!
Don’t worry about trying to correct the record with the Kossacks. They really don’t care. Consider the parable of the pearls and the swine.
Totally dude. I always did think the whole “mojo” thing over there was really lame.
It’s like something you do when you’re 12. I really don’t miss it. If anything, I miss the size of the audience. I guess I’m an attention whore. It was cool how, in the middle of the night, you could strike up a conversation with people on about any topic.
But then, just when you were starting to have fun, the ratings crap would start. I’ve noticed over here that you almost never see anything but fours.
I’m kind of wondering if it’s even allowed to give out anything else?
I almost gave you a “3” because, after all, it really was a good comment!
Um, here you kind of give 4s and not much else. As Mom always used to say, “If you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all.” If you want to get the lay of the land, check in at the Froggy Bottom Cafe — they’ll fill you in!
(cross-commented on your MyLeftWing diary)
I so loathe what dKos has become that I rarely devote any energy to discussing it.
I was a devoted – and moderate, or so I thought – member of the Kos community since the early 11,000’s. I was banned over a year ago for suggesting that Kos et.al. were too preoccupied with securing their futures as party operatives to abide controversial or dissenting opinions.
During the mass purge that followed (this was just after the “don’t be a tinhat wearer or the GOP will make fun of us” era, and immediately before the “Gilligan ad – it’s my site and I’ll parade my misogyny if I want to” controversy), everyone guilty of either recommending a diary or giving a ‘4’ rating to [an independent thinker] a tinhat wearer was PURGED.
Naturally, at least 50% of the [ideas] conspiracies discussed by the alleged tinhatters have since been proven accurate. As Gore Vidal says, “conspiracy is often the word used to describe unspeakable truths”.
Oh, and welcome; you’re in excellent company. Arthur Gilroy was 86’d a week before I got the ax; apparently Markos bans only the best.
I’m amazed I never got banned over there as I fall firmly in the “tinfoil”, anarcho-leftist tent which doesn’t go over too well there. I’ve even posted some purposefully incendiary comments about some of the diary police and still made it through unscathed. Must be because, even so, I never really posted there that much.
I’m just glad I know where all the good people went.
Hell, sometimes,I am suprised that I haven’t been banned.
I think I owe my continued membership to the Sheehan Principle, ‘You can’t be mean to women who have been affected by the Iraq War’!
I have also been banned from Daily Kos.
Four Times!
I took the hint and gave up. The truth is I’m pretty far to the right of alot of the BT crowd. I don’t expect I’d agree with the majority of guys here, the majority of the time.
But the only rule here is that you have to be nice to people, which is cool. I don’t miss all the nasty ratings wars which are still raging over there.
And I like that Booman doesn’t ban people for this or that unfortunate comment/diary.
There are more than a few posts I made that I wish I hadn’t. There are things floating out there in the DKos database of which I am so horribly embarrassed, I have considered sneaking into Kos Headquarters so I could delete them forever.
What are you going to do? I tried to send a few apologetic emails and make amends, but I never got a response. I may have really deserved it the first time, I went off in a bad way. But I was under alot of stress and I freaked out. Since then, every time I tried to go back, I would get banned. My guess is they identified me by IP address and re-booted my ass.
It’s all good though, it’s not so bad over here. And Kosland is getting a bit too crowded these days, and mean. At one point, about three weeks ago, some guy told me to meet him in Oakland so we could fight. Seriously. I don’t need to deal with that kind of shit.
At one point, about three weeks ago, some guy told me to meet him in Oakland so we could fight.
You should’ve asked: Where, exactly, in Oakland?
That usually works.
You are evil!!!! And I mean that as a compliment!
In this instance, I’ll take it as a compliment. Considering the source.
In the end, I’d be happy to be called anything other than “snarky”.
Been reading some of the crap there. The meta bullshit arguments. It is all I can do not to comment on some of it. I can’t stand it when people try to censor arguments/thought.
What ever happened to the idea that there were no bad questions. It was on some 9/11 stuff. And I guess some people just won’t let others ask questions anymore. It is too offensive to be asked a question about the accepted view of reality.
If dKos is a reflection of centrist Democratic thinking, then I’m proud to be a Green.
And it does point out the beauty of the freedom of expression offered at the pond.
Alas poor Bandwidth, I knew him well.
Ghandi –
Are you bringing friends over for dinner? Should we dust off the welcome wagon? 😉
I wish I were… but up here in Groningen…
It’s nuts – we just had our third girl.
She’s wonderful. *big Smile*
It’s a gateway drug. Try not to worry about it too much because it isn’t very potent, just gives you a general overall buzzy feeling of well being. I’m on the good stuff now and my dealers are real bad boys and even worse girls. They know their shit very very well. I get my junk from the finest dealers and it comes from far away from the DLC places and is DLC exotic……..I’m a damned junk connoisseur. Kos is so loud and I spend all day teaching Democrat 101 if I get stuck over there. If you aren’t prepared that day to experience a lowlevel crappy high it can feel a little defeating. Fear not new Siberian, make sexy snowpersons……..in short order you will discover of what I describe once you have jonesed off of the large orange you have been consuming.
You must need a license to wield that tongue!
I was never banned, but I never signed up either. What on earth would ever prompt somebody to ban a person from their website? I understand filtering for commercial spam and removing hate speech, but beyond that I don’t get it. Kos’ comment section has always struck me as an elaborate ritualistic pissing match. None of these sentences are connected to one another. I must work on my transitions.
Well, you could ask Boo, he’s banned quite a few people from this site for various reasons.
have actually banned me. I only notice that suspiciously I can’t sign on! It could be any number of glitches. Like the glitches that seize their fingers when I start posting over there. Oh How I Miss them all so much. I wonder if they ever think about me and wonder what I’m eating today or if the sun is shining where I am?
I had the same problem w/MI Liberal (I am NOT a Jennifer Graholm fan), until I started writing about Part D. Then I was suddenly asked to post there. Checked it out and since I first tried that site became too cluttered up w/too much crap for me to follow.
I sort of doubt they are wondering if the sun is shining where you are. They’re too busy eating chicken for lunch and hiding under the bed the rest of the day.
I couldn’t sign on here from work earlier, right after I left that comment. My brain feels like it’s floating in Vaseline today, so it’s entirely possible that I forgot my password. But I thought it would be pretty funny if I got banned right after I left a comment about banning. I’ve alway had a thing for symmetry.
I don’t know why ghandi and Chris Floyd were banned from dKos, and I’m certainly not jumping into the War of Trolls, but I just noticed something that probably contributed to the banning. Please bear with me as I explain (or if it’s tedious, jump to the end of this comment).
In the introductory paragraph of this diary posted by ghandi, I found the the diarist’s identity unclear (I’m not playing grammarian; it’s just easy to confuse me now, at the end of a few long days):
Okay, I’m thinking, what’s Floyd’s? I read on, and the diary that follows says this:
Okay (picture the light bulb brightening over my weary brain), ghandi is posting a diary written by Floyd, and ghandi and Floyd work together. I click on the link to the diarist’s website, and there is the diary, attributed to Chris Floyd.
I read on, and come to a reference to a comment posted in discussion about the Leopold controversy. Having followed that controversy in the past couple of weeks, I wonder what the comment was. So I go to ghandi’s orange user page. While I’m waiting for it to open, I realize I should have gone to Chris Floyd’s page to find the comment. Ghandi’s page opens. I glance at the intro to his final diary
link
and move on to Chris Floyd’s user page, where I see this:
link
Ghandi posted a diary and 4 1/2 hours later Chris Floyd posted what appears to be the same diary (I didn’t read beyond the intro), with a different title.
Is it any wonder that some suspect that ghandi/Kastelein and Chris Floyd are one person posting under two user names?
Whether it’s true I don’t know. How much it matters is for you to decide.
A few things.
One.
As an administrator – I run http://www.chris-floyd.com – I can tell you – I know who comments and who posts from where by their IP addresses. I know, for a fact, that Scoop allows for that kind of security.
It’s pretty clear, that Chris Floyd and ‘ghandi’ are two different people at Daily Kos – to any admin who is working on the site. Period. I live in Groningen and Chris live in Oxford, in the UK.
Secondly – check out my posts at Daily Kos and Floyd’s. We are not the same person. I can’t write nearly on the same level as him – nor can you by the way.
Thirdly – we both have our own Bio’s at http://www.chris-floyd.com.
You certainly have not done your research have you?
Check out my diaries.
yes as Ghandi (sic I know) at
http://www.boomantribune.com
http://www.dailykos.com
http://www.myleftwing.com
http://www.eurotrib.com
And tell me if you think I am the ‘same guy’. You accuse me? You do your homework… Kid. Or piss off before libeling Chris Floyd and myself.
Yes, because when I thought I would register as a “socket puppet” the email said someone at IP (enter number here) requested an account. But I came to my sense and just left.
by an opponent, conquer him with love.”
— Mohandas K. Gandhi
I posted the diary over on Daily Kos “Daily Kos — So Fix It Already” into which Chris Lloyd commented “So now we’re banning sources?”
I mentioned in the dairy that only that day, May 22, the FAQ had been updated to include the exception for diaries sourced primarily in Leopold, Madsen, and Thompson. That exception had been added and explained by one Diskosopedia member…. without an announcement of any kind from the administration of Daily Kos. I found the whole practice questionable, to say the least.
The list of questionable sources, and those that are banned is growing apace at Daily Kos. It would be nice to have a list of sources considered acceptable, since that seems the shorter list.
The Daily Kos community has been going through some tough times, and there have been bannings with very little said about it. The troll wars, in their fashion, are uglier than the previous wars, pie wars, voter fraud wars, conspiracy theory wars, etc.
And community moderation has failed, in my opinion, because of a pack of vigilantes whose attacks can be viscious…. from there the crowd seems to draw energy, and the behavior is ugly.
I found the above article “On Being Banned by Daily Kos” on a search I did today. The infighting at Daily Kos is creating a phenomenon in the media that detracts from the good that is being generated by the site. I am embarrassed and ashamed for “the community” there, of which I am still a part.
So my apologies to ghandi and Chris Floyd, (need I say here that I was not one of your detractors or down-raters?) It shouldn’t have happened. This bad publicity for Daily Kos was earned, I’m afraid.
dkos has become very unpleasant of late. The anti-troll vigilantes must be stopped, they’re out of control.
and is likely to continue to worsen unless markos decides to take the thing a little more seriously than he has. It’s worse than I’ve seen it in a long time, and it’s not going to be quelled by broad comments about how the system is working.
My fear for the big orange place — and it’s becoming more reality all the time — has always been that while it would always get huge numbers of people, that it would lose the depth and breadth of commentary unless those things were specifically valued. Markos has made a large mistake, IMO, in paying attention mainly to his traffic stats and not the level of discourse. People are troll rated habitually for disagreements or over mysterious perceived offense. The paranoia over the “trolls in our midst” has reached McCarthyesque levels.
And there are a few members over there — I’m not going to name names — who really, really need to be told to take the authority-wielding vitriol down a few notches. Because while I have always avoided blaming the aforementioned nameless ones for causing ridiculous amounts of damage, it is frankly getting to that point now. Some heads need deflating, IMO.
in Blogland. Boring.
Mea culpa, but after reading two or so paragraphs, I don’t give a rat’s ass.