As you know, I posted this story here yesterday about RFK Jr.’s report in Rolling Stone. It was also posted as a diary at Daily Kos and it made the recommended diaries list with over 400 comments. In my diary I criticized those in the media, the netroots and in the Democratic party who had attempted to limit discussion of this, to me, very important topic.
Armando took exception to my diary and to the RFK Jr. article to which it refers, claiming that the RFK’s report was “horshit” and that the thread of comments to my diary reconfirms Markos original action “to ban the fraudsters.” I disagree with those assertions by Armando, and told him so in my reply.
I am reposting his comment and my response here so that you can judge for yourself. Armando is welcome to respond further here if he wishes, even though he has said he will not engage me “in reliving November and December 2004.” Follow me below the fold for the complete text of his comment and my reply.
First Armando’s comment:
Steven
The Rolling Stone article is complete horseshit.
This is a rehash of all of the worst theories.
Robert Kennedy, Jr. should be ashamed of himself.
He has destroyed the issue of voting reform forever with this.
I will not engage you in reliving November and December 2004.
Suffice it to say that this thread is the worst indictment of the fraudsters and reconfirms that Markos was right to ban the fraudsters.
I imagine he will have to do it again.
Hooray for Booman Tribune, a big influx is coming your way.
“All knew that Armando was an Armory of Wisdom. But then, who are these with whom Armando crossed verbal swords?”
by Armando on Fri Jun 02, 2006 at 11:24:40 PM PDT</blockquote
And now my reply to his remarks:
Actually Armando it’s not complete horseshit
I was there. I was actively engaged in the hash the GOP made of the Ohio election.
I helped prepare affidavits for people who had been denied the right to vote even a provisional ballot. I downloaded and distributed to our volunteers copies of the Federal Court Order prohibiting election officials from using the fraudulent lists the Republicans had prepared to challenge voters. We had numerous instances where the polling officials had never been informed that those lists were illegal. We had polling places that were demanding ID for every hispanic or spanish speaking voter, in violation of state and federal law. We pleaded with the Board of Elections to provide more machines to many, many precincts where there were long lines to vote and waits of 3 hours or more, all of which the BOE refused.
Everything Kennedy describes in his article about suppressing the vote in minority districts I heard from the volunteers who were calling in to our field office for help on how to challenge the actions of the polling place officials to deny people their right to vote. You can claim such things didn’t happen if you want, but I know for a fact that they did occur, and they certainly weren’t confabulated or imagined by our volunteers, nor were their reports of these abuses “horseshit.”
Now we can argue all you want about the validity of the exit polls, etc. which is what I imagine you are referring to as horseshit, but the fact remains that when a recount was ordered, the officials in Ohio worked to rig the recount effort. A special prosecutor has brought charges against three election workers in Cleveland for violating the law in order to ensure that ther would be no hand recount of ballots (which by coincidence was where I worked for Election Protection). You of all people should know that no one acts to game the system unless they have a very good reason to do so. If there was no concern about what a hand recount would show than why were these officials risking a felony conviction to ensure no hand recount of Cleveland’s ballots took place? By the way, here’s the link to one of the stories about these indictments: LINK.
Frankly, while I respect your intelligence, your writing ability and the forceful manner in which you present your arguments, you are wrong to attempt to silence people about this issue. If you had been with me on Election night in Cleveland I find it hard to believe that you would be taking the absolutist position you are asserting now. Indeed, I find it hard to believe even though you weren’t with me on election night.
You last statement implies that Markos should ban people for discussing these topics. That’s a fine example of progressive thinking. I’d expect that at FreeRepublic where one gets banned for anything that doesn’t toe the official party line, or at RedState, little green footballs,or any other number of conservative sites. But I don’t think you can make this issue go away simply by banning more people, nor is it a topic that deserves to be suppressed.
You want to make the Democratic Party stronger? Censorship isn’t the way to go, sir.
“I just had the basic view of the American public — it can’t be that bad out there.” Marine Travis Williams after 11 members of his squad were killed.
by Steven D on Sat Jun 03, 2006 at 07:25:34 AM PDT</blockquote
Some typos from Armando’s and my posts were corrected in the text displayed above, but no substantive changes have been made to the content.
