John McCain is on Meet the Press saying that Iran encouraged Hizbollah to attack Israel as a way of distracting the international community from the issue of their nuclear ambitions.
I want to say for the record that this is a lie.
Hizbollah’s cross border raid was not unusual. And it was a reaction to Israeli actions in Gaza. Here is how it was reported the day after the raid.
Hezbollah leader Sheik Hassan Nasrallah said he would free the Israeli soldiers only in a prisoner swap, adding that he was open to a package deal that would include the release of the soldier held in Gaza.
“The capture of the two soldiers could provide a solution to the Gaza crisis,” he told reporters in Beirut.
At least 23 Palestinians were killed in Gaza on Wednesday. And an Israeli airstrike early Thursday destroyed the building housing the Hamas-controlled Palestinian Foreign Ministry. Palestinian medics said 13 people in the neighborhood, including six children, were injured, mainly from flying glass and debris.
Here is what Sy Hersh reported:
According to a Middle East expert with knowledge of the current thinking of both the Israeli and the U.S. governments, Israel had devised a plan for attacking Hezbollah—and shared it with Bush Administration officials—well before the July 12th kidnappings…
“The Israelis told us it would be a cheap war with many benefits,” a U.S. government consultant with close ties to Israel said. “Why oppose it? We’ll be able to hunt down and bomb missiles, tunnels, and bunkers from the air. It would be a demo for Iran.”
A Pentagon consultant said that the Bush White House “has been agitating for some time to find a reason for a preëmptive blow against Hezbollah.” He added, “It was our intent to have Hezbollah diminished, and now we have someone else doing it.”
Iran promised to respond to the U.N. Security Council on August 22nd. There was no way to distract the international community from that date. John McCain is a liar.
Straight Talk John speaks with forked tongue, eh? What a surprise
That guy would do anything to get the neocon-religious right cabal to let him be president. Pathetic.
IN FEBRUARY, 2006…
that the only way to have the return of Lebanese hostages was to take hostages of their own.
IN FEBRUARY!!!
Watch the interview (or read the transcript) with Nasrallah HERE at Democracy Now!
He also said that he has been saying from even before the war that we weren’t committing enough troops to do the job (easy enough to factcheck), that he doesn’t have confidence in Rumsfeld but does support Bush’s right to continue employing an incompetent fool to lead our war effort (basic reasoning: we voted for the schmuck-in-chief so now we don’t have any choice but to back his idiocy).
The whole conversation gave me a headache, so I finally gave up trying to find logic in McCain’s bs. We’re a democracy, you aren’t supposed to support the President’s decisions if they diminish us as a nation. I would say we suffered more as a nation from staying in Vietnam 5 more years than we would have if we had gotten out in 1970. Staying in a warzone with a hard-to-identify enemy is just stupid.
John McCain is on Meet the Press saying that Iran encouraged Hezbollah to attack Israel as a way of distracting the international community from the issue of their nuclear ambitions.
I am afraid that in this case that might be a sound assessment of the situation.
1. Hezbollah’s cross border raid was not unusual. And it was a 2. reaction to Israeli actions in Gaza.
Hezbollah’s program (linked to above) and ceremonies like these:
adds even more fuel to those of us who are highly sceptical of Hezbollah’s intentions.
According to a Middle East expert with knowledge of the current thinking of both the Israeli and the U.S. governments, Israel had devised a plan for attacking Hezbollah–and shared it with Bush Administration officials–well before the July 12th kidnappings…
Every nation at war ought to have contingency plans and scenarios drawn up in case of new conflicts breaking out, including Israel. With the supply of missiles coming across the border from Syria, Israel knew that it was only a matter of time before they had to deal with the missile threat Hezbollah posed to it.
Iran has not been willing to comply with previous UN resolutions. Thus the idea that they could and would somehow disrupt this deadline too, is one that is quite plausible and realistic. It is worth noting though that this last UN resolution followed a 12 July agreement to refer Iran to the UN Security Council for failing to respond to a package of incentives to suspend enrichment, the same day Hezbollah executed its cross border raid into Israel.
I doubt that Iran wasn’t telling them anything differently than all the other Arab states. This is an Israeli -Arab conflict, after all, not just a Irani/Hebollah – Israeli conflict, like the US admin would prefer us to believe.
US foreign policy is marked by attempts to get at their nations resources so it’s only natural that the whole region would try to get at Israel because of it’s close ties to the US.
They are only focusing on Iran’s involvement with Hezbollah (and not all the othe Arab states) because Iran is currently the USA’s bugaboo and this bit of ‘info’ will help US agenda.
IT bears emphasis. Most, if not all, the Arab states are anti-Israeli since they see Israel and the USA as beign more or less the same. Picking on Iran is just picking out one country out of many in an attempt to manipulate public opinion toward a more favorable ‘anti-Iran’ stance.
I might also liketo point out Hezbollah’s incredibly high popular Lebanese support and to also point out that that picture you gave us doesn’t realyl signify by itself. It could mean anything.
They are only focusing on Iran’s involvement with Hezbollah (and not all the othe Arab states) because Iran is currently the USA’s bugaboo and this bit of ‘info’ will help US agenda.
No, this particular conflict is not an Israeli-Arab conflict in itself, it is a conflict between Lebanon and Israel in general and a conflict between Hezbollah and Israel in particular. Many people, including many Arab states, want to link this conflict to the Palestinian-Israeli conflict, but the warring factions consist of only Israeli soldiers and Hezbollah supporters. It is quite logical to single out Iran in this conflict for the mere fact that it is Iran and Syria that supply Hezbollah with both weapons and training and thus these three are intimately linked.
US foreign policy is marked by attempts to get at their nations resources so it’s only natural that the whole region would try to get at Israel because of it’s close ties to the US.
Well, since its only natural that the region wants to get at Israel isn’t it appropriate that Israel then defend itself?
IT bears emphasis. Most, if not all, the Arab states are anti-Israeli since they see Israel and the USA as beign more or less the same. Picking on Iran is just picking out one country out of many in an attempt to manipulate public opinion toward a more favorable ‘anti-Iran’ stance.
Concerning your comment about this US administration trying to manipulate the public opinion towards a more favourable ‘anti-Iran’ stance that might very well be and is quite plausible. Still, it seems as if the current US administration and the current Iranian administration are in line here, because most of that work is being done by the Iranian administration itself.
I might also liketo point out Hezbollah’s incredibly high popular Lebanese support and to also point out that that picture you gave us doesn’t realyl signify by itself. It could mean anything.
Yes, they are quite popular among many fractions within the Lebanese society, although there are many Christians that are quite sceptical to them and some are even blaming them for the war. Even within the Sunnis there are people sceptical to Hezbollah. Today the Lebanese Defence minister Elias Murr even said any faction, including Palestinian groups or Hezbollah, “would be considered collaborating with Israel” if it fired rockets into Israel, prompting another strike, not a statement needed if all parties are in total agreement with each other.
Concerning the picture I posted of a Hezbollah ceremony, I find it a bit odd that of all possible salutes the organization could have chosen they chose the Fascist/Nazi salute. Granted that this was originally an ancient Roman salute but to most people of today this salute are closely linked to the fascist period in our history.
Your last point first: that salute has been around in many cultures, not just Roman or Nazi.
Secondly, I wont scream ‘give me your sources’ when you you say that it’s a Iranian – Israeli conflict because that would be a bit childish and I know you probably have better things to do with your time. However, when I said that the USA agenda wants to manipulate public opinion was merely pointing out the US’ proven pattern of foreign policy.
I know you said that I may have had point here. I’m not beating you over the head with it I’m just pointing out that with the US’ given foreign policy track record you can bet money that if the US goes on record as to naming ‘enemies’ that there covert ops, psyops campaigns, and public relations strategies’, calls to media owners, and thousands of misleading statements and whitelies, all geared toward the goal of ‘getting’ that enemy.
So, 1) some Senator stands up and tells us that Iran is ‘behind’ Hezbollah’s aggression after the USA has Iran targeted as an enemy (for nuclear weapons, whatever). 2) we know the neo-cons want Iran. It was part of their strategy for dominance in the middle east 3) you can’t defeat the entire middle east but you might be able to take out important parts of it. 4) this also furthers the ‘Soviet strategy’ where we have an outside enemy to focus on rather having to deal with domestic problems at home..
We are silly if we don’t wonder jsut how they are trying to lead us. They always try to manipulate opinion and we have to assume that they are doing so here.
Lastly, I would like to point out that I have no doubt whatsoever that Iran has played a part in Hezbollah’s financing, training, and organizing. So, that doesn’t in any way go against what you have been telling me except in the interpretation of it. I simply disagree that Iran is the ONLY player. I expect that Saudi Arabia (our erstwhile ally) and others are gettign into this as well. because like I said this is not an Iran-Israeli problem it is an Arab -Israeli/US problem. The Arabs are unified in their animosity towards the Anglo/Israeli presence and attempt at hegemony in the region.
Edit: points 3 and 4 are really part of the same point.
Your last point first: that salute has been around in many cultures, not just Roman or Nazi.
Yes that might be, even if I can not recall any ancient Arab or Islamic cultures at the moment that had such a salute, but that doesn’t make it more tolerable in my book. I suspect that this is remnants of old ties to Fascist and Nazi regimes back in the 1930s and 40s. Since the Nazis was the enemy of the Jews then they were perceived as allies by some Arabs including the Mufti of Jerusalem at the time.
Secondly, I wont scream ‘give me your sources’ when you you say that it’s a Iranian – Israeli conflict because that would be a bit childish and I know you probably have better things to do with your time. However, when I said that the USA agenda wants to manipulate public opinion was merely pointing out the US’ proven pattern of foreign policy.
No, I didn’t say it was an Iranian-Israeli conflict I said it was an Lebanese-Israeli conflict with Hezbollah strongly supported by Syria and Iran.
I simply disagree that Iran is the ONLY player.
I agree with you that Iran is not the only player, but Iran and Syria is the most prominent players on Hezbollah’s side.
This ‘conflict’ is not a fight between Israel and Hizbollah. Whether you go with your theory that Iran initiated it as a distraction or Sy Hersh’s that Cheney/Olmert initiated it for a variety of reasons, it remains a war between Iran and the U.S.
Naturally, Syria is part of that war.
Now.
Do you honestly believe that Israel thought they would isolate Hizbollah by striking all of Lebanon and destroying their roads, ports, and airport?
I simply do not believe they thought that would work. They must have known the whole country, as well as all of the Islamic world, would rally to Hizbollah. They simply did not care. Why?
Because they are in this fight for the long haul and the scarier it gets the more resolve we’ll have to continue the fight.
How will this work in the months ahead? I still believe that this is the opening act in a move for regime change in Syria. Exactly how the steps unfold is uncertain. I suspect that the cease fire will only hold when U.S. troops are inserted in Lebanon, and they won’t be there to keep peace, nor to stare at Syrians passively. We shall see.
Their strategy was to force the Lebanese government to get involved since nothing had been done in disarming Hezbollah according to UN resolution 1559, and so far it seems as this strategy has worked whether it will succeed in the end only time will tell, but I have to admit I have my doubts.
They must have known the whole country, as well as all of the Islamic world, would rally to Hizbollah. They simply did not care.
You do not engage in armed conflict and expect to become popular. Of course the many Lebanese rallied in defence of anyone that claimed they were fighting for Lebanon. Israel has always been unpopular in the Middle-East that is why they have fought so many wars and since the early 1970s they have even been the “enfant terrible” in the UN.
Because they are in this fight for the long haul and the scarier it gets the more resolve we’ll have to continue the fight.
Yes they are, and will continue to do so for a long while if nothing new happens on the diplomatic arena. This is of course the responsibility of all parties.
I simply do not believe that was their strategy. It was their ‘stated’ strategy. If it had really been their strategy they would have limited the attacks to Hizbollah targets in the south in order to maintain some semblence of neutrality from the rest of the country.
If you want to isolate Hizbollah you have to make them unpopular. It’d make more sense to do false flag operations on the Christians and Sunnis and blame it on Hizbollah than to destroy the whole tourist season and blow up all their roads and close their airport.
I do think Israel miscalculated about the strength of Hizbollah’s defense, but they did not miscalculate about the reaction of the Lebanese government. They are also refusing to allow Malaysian and other peacekeepers. They DO NOT WANT non-American peacekeepers and there is no independent Lebanese military willing to take on Hizbollah. Israel’s actions make that prospect less likely than ever.
You can argue that they are blundering. I argue that things are going basically according to plan. It’s a crazy plan, but less crazy than what you are arguing they are doing would be.
I simply do not believe that was their strategy. It was their ‘stated’ strategy. If it had really been their strategy they would have limited the attacks to Hezbollah targets in the south in order to maintain some semblence of neutrality from the rest of the country.
On the contrary, if they had limited their strategy the Lebanese government could have said that this is not our war, behind the curtains and let Israel and Hezbollah fight it out. In order to get the Lebanese government on the scene they had to be pushed, since they had no intention of implementing 1559 on their own. They had to make them realize what the consequences were if they did not want to implement UN resolution 1559.
If you want to isolate Hezbollah you have to make them unpopular. It’d make more sense to do false flag operations on the Christians and Sunnis and blame it on Hizbollah than to destroy the whole tourist season and blow up all their roads and close their airport.
Israel could never dream of making Hezbollah unpopular, that is a task only the Lebanese can do. If the Lebanese government asked for support amongst most Arab states today against Hezbollah they would get it, Israel on the other hand would only make Hezbollah more popular in a fight and that is why the Israelis never have fought a war for better PR and likely never will do so in the future. The consequences of false flag operations going sour could be even more devastating to Israel than commencing in large scale operations. The reason for this is of course the fact that many Christians would say that; “Israel does not see only Hezbollah as a problem but are even willing to kill us their former allies”.
One of the Lebanese commanders that surrendered to the Israelis during the conflict is now being investigated because he engaged in friendly relations with the Israeli forces. This is just an example of how divided the Lebanese society is. Had it been Hezbollah forces they would surely engaged in combat with the Israeli forces but General Adnan Daoud, a commander of a 1000 man police/army force based in the Christian city of Marjayoun didn’t seem to agree.
I do think Israel miscalculated about the strength of Hizbollah’s defense, but they did not miscalculate about the reaction of the Lebanese government. They are also refusing to allow Malaysian and other peacekeepers. They DO NOT WANT non-American peacekeepers and there is no independent Lebanese military willing to take on Hizbollah. Israel’s actions make that prospect less likely than ever.
The reason for the Israelis refusing Malaysian and Indonesian forces to partake in the peacekeeping mission is simply the fact that they haven’t recognized Israel as a legitimate state. And yes they do want non-American forces as peacekeepers they have accepted Bangladesh (a Muslim country) and said that they would prefer to have a large contingent of Western-European forces in the peacekeeping mission.
Seems like a stretch.
The over-reaction of Israel points to this.
The cheap and useless cease fire points to more war. It is only a matter of time.
As for Iran, I hear a lot of wind, smell a lot of bullshit, but see not much is going on.
The UN might want to bottle up Lebanon in a blockade but I think the damage is done. Olmert is likely cooked, and he’ll take a noisy Halutz and the feeble Peretz with him.
The even more bellicose Netanyahu waits in the wings and is making plenty of noise in the Israeli press, but the jig is up. Look around, no one outside of the US is fooled by the idea that the US and Israel are working on a regional hegemony in an attempt to control resources. Do you think the Chinese and Russians will not look out for their own diplomatic and economic interests?
If Iran could have been attacked before now, it would have been. But now, when grandfathers and grandmothers are being press-ganged into the US Army and Marines and Israel has come up against adversity in this proxy war in Lebanon, it may be too late.
Oh and what wonderful imagery…..looks like a foreign rework of the College Republicans Convention…with a few mistakes, of course….damn ‘furriners!
Do you think the Chinese and Russians will not look out for their own diplomatic and economic interests?
If you mean them going to war over the Iran issue, I very much doubt it.
Oh and what wonderful imagery…..looks like a foreign rework of the College Republicans Convention…with a few mistakes, of course….damn ‘furriners!
LOL, they are not quite there yet, but they are pretty close.
They don’t need to go to war, i.e. Russia and China…..they need only supply the weapons to motivated proxies.
We seem to be providing the motivation, no?
Remember Vietnam? Motivated proxy war. We don’t do well in such gambits….historically.
Yes, and they seem to do well so far in supplying weapons. The supplying of weapons have been going on for a while and is nothing new, hence that would represent no deterrent of significance. Still, I do not believe that any nation on this planet would try to invade Iran if that is what you are implying the stakes would be too high besides being totally unnecessary.
I do not doubt that both the US and Israel have the capabilities to do so, when everything is at its optimum military wise, but with a large part of the US army bogged down in Iraq and a budget deficit larger than life, I can not imagine that even this US administration would consider such an option.
Israel does not have the logistical means to do so and even if they got the support of the US aren’t frankly interested in engaging in such a folly.
or else the American electorate will reject your policies:
Now I am not too sure what policies short of voodoo are being advocated here to achieve these objectives, but I strongly suggest some of you in America get out and talk to your real neighbors for a change. What I hear here for policy suggestions are either non-existent or wishful, wishy-washy BS. It sounds very, very weak to me, and I am sure many others will see it that way. I have nothing against criticism of Bush’s and America’s Iraq policy, but when it comes to stopping terrorist acts against the US or our allies, do not tie your criticism of Iraq into the same logic stream! They are different, and the American people know it.
Voodoo won’t work, Bush allowed New Orleans to drown.
What people here are saying aloud for the first time is that Iraq is a lost cause. They are resigned to the fact they were lied to, and that all and I mean all of the local peaceniks of Vietnam vet age and status called this fiasco right down the line, virtually from day one. There is a deep resentfulness at being so manipulated, and so lied to that the dread of having to admit that our troops died for nothing is leaving some almost shaking in rage. These people want accountability for this national tragedy, and that means HEADS this time.
Iran is viewed with deep suspicion, but less so that the administrations point people and propaganda. This is why polls are flat. No one in their right mind trusts Bush to tell the truth and Cheney looks like a fool screaming for more war when the reports of 50 year olds going off to Iraq and dirty tricks by recruiters leaves the public more nauseous than inspired.
Israel is different beast. Israel has support for its defense, but the Olmert regime overplayed its hand in the indiscriminate bombing of areas far outside of the battle zone. Also, the hackles were raised when news of noted Rabbis claiming “special rights” for Jews, and duties to murder women and children, and the right to steal and plunder were released in the Israeli press itself. If you want to know the chief cause of anti semitism in the US, look only to claims of extreme Jewish exceptionalism. The Olmert regime was stupid to not bottle up the religious hotheads screaming about this exceptionalism. It was hideously stupid!
Folks here are alarmed that all of this mayhem and cost is just lunacy, pipe dream fantasy of armchair warriors who haven’t any idea of what they are doing, at worst, and simply wrong-headed at best.
The claim that Hezbollah is an Iranian puppet has been discussed and refuted by such figures as Anthony Cordesman , Rhami Cori, of the Beirut Daily Star , and the editors of the Middle Easty Report no one who knows anythiing about the region takes it seriously.