And why is Rove so insistent that the polls that only he sees point to a Republican victory in both the House and the Senate? Just askin …
After midterm election [NPR] interviewer Robert Siegel stated that “many might consider you on the optimistic end of realism” regarding Republican hopes to retain both Houses in November, Rove suggested that the NPR host was biased.
“Not that you would be exhibiting a bias or anything like that,” Rove said. “You’re just making a comment.”
“I’m looking at all the same polls that you’re looking at every day,” Seigel responded.
“No you’re not!” Rove exclaimed.
Rove said that he was reviewing 68 polls a week, and that “unlike the general public, I’m allowed to see the polls on the individual races,” as opposed to public polls reported in the media.
“You may be looking at four or five public polls a week that talk about attitudes nationally, but that do not impact the outcome,” Rove said.
Rove claimed that the polls “add up to a Republican Senate and a Republican House.”
Now call me crazy, but it seems to me there are only a few reasons Rove would go on NPR to make this claim. It can’t have much to do with firing up the Republican base to get out the vote, because they don’t listen to NPR.
And I don’t believe for one minute it has anything to do with suppressing votes among those inclined to vote Democratic this year. I don’t see either Democrats or Independents fed up with Bush’s misrule reacting to Rove’s arrogance and bluster by deciding they shouldn’t bother to vote since the GOP is just going to win anyway. Quite the contrary. They will be all the more dedicated to making him eat those words. No, he must has a different rationale for insisting, against all the evidence, that Republicans are assured of victory this Fall.
As I see it …
… Rove would only want to to use NPR to spread this message in order to sow doubt in the minds of Democrats and Independent voters. And why would he want to sow doubt in the minds of people likely to vote against him? There are only two likely possibilities.
One, assuming Republicans do lose control of either house of Congress, Rove’s pre-election public statements (and those of President Bush) have laid the groundwork for Republican post-election lawsuits, recount demands, allegations of Democratic election fraud and other assorted post election chaos. The goal would be to mount a last ditch defense of Republican control of Congress, and to make that defense credible they have to nourish the meme in the minds of the media and the American Public that the polls now show Republicans should win the election. The objective would be to prevent seating enough Democrats to keep control of the House or Senate in GOP hands after the dust cleared, or to cast doubt on the legitimacy of any Democratic victory, and thus seek to limit the power and authority of any Democrats in a position to investigate the White House.
Second possibility? C’mon, what do you think it will be? I’ll give you three guesses and the first two don’t count.
Any election, of course, will have anomalies. America’s voting system is a messy patchwork of polling rules run mostly by county and city officials. ”We didn’t have one election for president in 2004,” says Robert Pastor, who directs the Center for Democracy and Election Management at American University. ”We didn’t have fifty elections. We actually had 13,000 elections run by 13,000 independent, quasi-sovereign counties and municipalities.”
But what is most anomalous about the irregularities in 2004 was their decidedly partisan bent: Almost without exception they hurt John Kerry and benefited George Bush.
all rove’s internal polls are telling him the GOP is in deep shit. All internal polls indicate that the momentum is all in favor of the dems. this guy lives and breathes polls, it’s ALL he does. Every damn decision made is based on polling results. from the war president victory in 02 to the three g’s in 04. And while those techniques work in some states some of the time, they dont work in all states all of the time. His luck has run out and he knows it. He has no hope but to either steal and cheat ACROSS THE BOARD or accuse the dems of stealing across the board.
This will backfire because he doesn’t have the majority of voters who think he’s credible. The majority overwhelmingly agreee that he and his product are defective.
Can we say Diebolds?
When did polls matter. 2000? 2004?
you neglected 2002, and I fail to see your point. My point is that Rove won’t get away with manipulating tabulators in order to steal seats. Not this time around. He will not get away with accusing dems of manipulating tabulators because the GOP does not have the public support that would buy such a scheme. Just like in 2004, the public support that Kerry needed to demand a recount simply wasn’t there. I should know as i was obsessed for months after that election looking for the issue to be scrutinized the MSM. It never did. Underground, It has been the dems for the past six years questioning the integrity of the vote — in fact it has been the “far left liberals” that question the validity of vote counts. There are no instances where faulty machines have favored democrats so much so that they actually won.
With Diebold, there is nothing to recount. And the republicans will contest any close contest…see Billmon yesterday. We’re looking at a nightmare of dozens of florida’s on Nov 8.
Actually, this is the article by Billmon I was talking about. I’d take bets that something along these lines will happen.
President (how I hate to say this phrase) Bush said the same thing the other day! It reminded me of how certain the senior President Bush was on election night 2000 about the media exit polls being absolutely wrong on Florida! How did he know, and even worse, end up being supposedly correct?????????????
Are these characters going to thwart the will of the majority again, and if so, how does that building and non-vented anger of the majority eventually get expressed??
It wil eventually express itself in the streets.
If they manage another theft next week?
I hope so.
Maybe this time. maybe not.
But in 2008?
If we last that long?
Bet on it.
AG
To back up my previous statement, let me talk in YouTube examples:
I think the exact words when told he was losing FL were… “that’s impossible”. And of course, it was.
Rove laid out his gameplan as I mentioned in ejmw’s A Simple Reminder diary (to lazy to link)… he may give up the House if pushed, but the Senate is his. Remember, since 1996 incumbents have won reelection 96% of the time.
… of course 2006 is more like 94 than 96, but who’s paying attention? Certainly not Joe & Jane WalMart.
It’s in the bag baby.
He’s also letting all those damned liberals that the Schemer-in-Chief is still confident. And perhaps putting just a little doubt in their minds couldn’t hurt.
Should read “…all those damned liberals know that the…”
tell you what they’re going to do, they ALWAYS brag ahead of time what they’ve got cookin’, and NOBODY takes those boasts as warnings.
Unlike the spineless Dems, they will bring the gov’t down if they have to to dispute elections. They will supress votes, steal votes and litigate votes (much as they rail against the courts).
Until the leftish upper class in this country face the fact that these are radicals who honestly believe they are fighting a culture war, and respond accordingly, the Roves and Bushes and Cheneys will continue to commit their crimes.
adman,
I agree they are crazy enough to try and HALT government by challenging votes. To attempt voter fraud in 435 elections would be too blatant!
I also hope that fat porcine sewer rat, Rove, plans to keep copies of his so called favorable polls. WE, the people, need to keep our cool, and sue for discovery immediately and demand to see those polls.”Whoopsie we ‘lost’ or ‘threw them away” WILL NOT WORK.
For once, lets make it crystal clear to the Dem leaders we expect an immediate and aggressive lawsuit to be filed instantaneously if they try this B/S.
I think you underestimate the depths of their perfidy, a party which uses the eliminationist language of the racist right, a party that puts up blatantly racist ads and candidates, a party that has already filched two Presidential elections, using their bought-and-sold judges to do it, a party that inflames homophobia at every term, and now a party that will make direct personal attacks on ill and disabled people for being activists on issues that are important to their health. These are reprehensible radicals who are every bit as shameless and lacking in decency as the KKK and the Know-Nothing Party. They have embraced torture, launched a war of agression based on lies and emptied out the public treasury to enrich wealthy, venal supporters, arms merchants and confidence men. They have actively discarded the Great Writ, the basic building block of civil society and the western rule of law.
It is dangerous to ascribe decency to such scum, and they will hesitate at nothing to advance their aims. Every step of this nightmare we’re living in has been advanced by Democrats and the media murmering reassuring words that they won’t go THAT far, that they will surely see reason … and yet each and everytime the Republicans go for the jugular.
Either (1) he’s redlining all the Diebolds, so he knows the fix is in, or (2) he knows he screwed, but what else can he say (just like Baghdad Bob when the American tanks were arriving).
Hopefully it is (2)!
Hi Madman,
Please understand I DO NOT underestimate the depths of their perfidy. I KNOW beyond certainty that they are sick, twisted, dangerous, PSYCHOPATHS and I do not put anything beyond them.
That said – remember those 220 Service men who did their “redress” thing yesterday? That also tells me that the military is NOT on their side. Further some GOOD A/G’s are to be had – like tiger Eliot Spitzer, the next Governor of NY. Further, destroying and or lying about documents gets you 5 years each occurrence in a very unhappy DC based Grand Jury pool.
And the latent anger I am seeing everywhere, with very strong ENOUGH!, even among Repugs gives me hope.
I am feeling that if we come out strongly – even if our leaders do not-that the “Thugs” will back down, as bullies always do. Remember in FACT, that those buildings are OURS – not theirs- and if enough of us “show up” they will be intimidated. Will it get UGLY? – OH YEAH – but THIS TIME there is no backing down! I can barely walk a tenth of a mile after numerous surgeries, but I can get on a bus – go to DC and if some of you are good enough to get me up the Capitol steps, I am willing to stand/sit firm in the halls and chambers of congress.
I know that I don’t have many years left – but I do have children and grandchildren. Also, my belief in reincarnation helps. So losing THIS body won’t be that great a loss-and hopefully by doing the right thing I’ll get a new improved model next time – <some snark here>.
Anyway my favorite inspirational saying right now is by William Gladstone:
“Nothing that is morally wrong can be made politically right.”
oh, and that’s not to say I disagree w/ you, but to say that they WOULD steal votes in 435 elections if they thought it necessary.
They don’t need to change 435 elections. Only a few close ones to preseve control in the House and Senate.
Then we fight – that’s it! Think about it! It is the net roots who have, $5 at a time, come up with the extra dough, that the “Prima Donna” Rahm Emanuel, and the useless DLC vichy dems did not, for last minute ads etc. And the fact that Act Blue and Blue America are NOW the 2 largest PAC’s in the country tells me we “Have the Power”.
Further McCain is starting to lay his ground game in NH, and I am doing everything I can to get back home there by next spring so I can use my NH connections to absolutely wreck his campaign. Don’t you think that some of these THUGS absolutely KNOW that if we fight back strong, and they try to stop us, that their chances of getting anything out a a very disaffected and angry citizenship diminish?
Rove would attempt voter fraud in 435 elections if they could get electronic vote stealing machine into every congressional district. Rove hasn’t managed that yet, so the settle for committing voter fraud in every district they can get electronic vote stealing machines into.
How do you think they beat Max Cleland? Do you really believe the lie that silly Osama ad was that effective?
Look at the exit polls. The fraud in 2004 was a massive national effort. No less comprehensive than the Mexican election theft a few months ago.
The power of incumbency is very strong. In the most recent cycles 96% of those who stood for re-election won.
Many of the polls ask stupid questions such as “are more inclined to vote for the Dem or Repub candidate?”.
However when the voters get into the booth they see the familiar name of their congressman and say to themselves “I know him and he’s not doing such a bad job” and ignore the party affiliation.
So Rove can make his predictions on just a statistical basis and be fairly confident of being right. Remember he is going to be out of a job in two years and needs to promote himself as well.
Rove will not be out of a job- next task is to groom baby brother JEB!
We need to have hearings and PROSECUTIONS so all these criminals are put permanently out and have lovely jobs like laundry, making license plates etc for the next 20-30 years!
I had suspect that they’re basing their optimism on cash-on-hand of the campaigns, as discussed in Barrons.
Only, the Barrons piece is smoke and mirrors.
So I’m also left to conclude the same things StevenD pointed out: They’re muddying the waters for post-election challenges in court, or muddying the waters for hanky-panky with the voting. Not to mention the usual dirty-tricks of voter ID cards, voter roll purges, etc.
The presence of one doesn’t rule out the presence of the others, either.
It’s not just Karl whistling past the graveyard; he operates on too many levels for that alone to be what’s up – although keeping the base hopeful is a factor, too.
Democrats and Progressives haven’t done diddly-squat to stop Rove from stealing elections. The GOP has stolen every Federal election since 2000. Democrats and Progressives have done nothing to get rid of the electronic vote stealing machines. Democrats and Progressives have done nothing on creation of independent exit polls. Democrats and progressives have done nothing to get other nations involved in overseeing US elections.
I’ve been screaming for 6 freakin’ years. I’ve screamed myself hoarse. I’m tired. My health is going in the toilet.
This was first Federal Election cycle I sat out since I was on active duty in the early 80’s. It’s pointless. Until you guys get serious about fixing the US voting system, it’s a whole lot of work for nothing. I’m not participating in maintaining the illusion of US democracy any more. It doesn’t exist.
I’m not participating…
But consider:
If voting didn’t matter, why would Republicans work hard to suppress it?
-These reactionaries would never completely trust “some electric doohickey” with their stranglehold on power. Nobody does any reporting on election fraud, so why not have redundant election fraud efforts to ensure elections are stolen for certain.
-Clearly, not every Republican activist is going to be in the loop on the vote stealing machines. The low level thugs go about doing their low level thuggery without direction from DC as they always have. Nobody from DC is telling anyone in Mississippi to mail out fliers to African-American voters saying the date for the election has changed. They don’t need to. There’s plenty of bigots around more than willing to do grassroots level thuggery without direction.
will be a key issue in this election. In Franklin Co. OH, over 150,000 voters (out of 660,000 registered voters) are being flagged to provide I.D. and if the address does not match, they will have to cast a provisional ballot. The registration lists are printed with a little “STOP” sign by their name. I wrote a diary on this but I don’t think I got my point across.
No one in Washington in their right mind is going to come out and say “yeah you know what, we’re screwed. The other party is going to take a ton of seats.” Come on, this is political advertising 101.
Even if conservatives don’t listen to NPR, Rove most certainly cannot reveal how bad the polls look, as the message would certainly reach them through the usual channels a day or two later, and it would cost them some votes.
I don’t think any pol has ever predicted anything but victory. Including McGovern, Dukakis, and even, if memory serves, Nader. Rove may have some more stacked decks waiting, but don’t forget: every time he opens his mouth, he lies. Why take this one seriously?
There are no rules for the GOP – they must win at any cost. Nothing will surprise me; they have already stole two Presidential elections. If the country slipped into armed rebellion over this election the GOP would claim control using emergency powers and love every minute of it – especially the torture and killing of immigrants, blacks, liberals,teachers, gays, pro choicers, anti NASCAR sport fans, people who don’t speak with even a slight southern slur, anyone who doesn’t have a least one immediate family member who has been reborn, and anyone of any age with a disability.