I’m flattered that Marisacat reads this blog, even if she usually finds some reason to blast it. However, her latest criticism largely misses the point. She takes me task for writing the following:
[I] obviously want to win as many seats as possible, but if I have to choose, I would prefer a moderate gain in the blue areas combined with a shocking success in the red. Yes, this will leave us with imperiled and scared rabbit Democrats, but it will give hope and momentum to the 50 state strategy and bode better for our Presidential chances in 2008.
Moreover, what I really want is for the GOP to get over its sickness so it isn’t a life or death matter whether they win elections. In order for that to happen, they need to gain some moderate strength in the blue areas, not become totally relegated to the south and plains states.
Long-term, I’d like to see a ruling majority Democratic party with big enough majorities to sustain a lot of more conservative members. Kind of like how the party was under LBJ. I’d rather have a progressive majority that involves cross-over Republicans along with Democratic defectors, than one big ideologically pure Democratic Party opposed by one smaller ideologically insane Republican Party.
Marisacat suggests that what I am calling for is a return of the boll weevils. Would I like to welcome Richard Shelby back into the Democratic Party? No. However, I’d like to see a plan for beating Shelby. If he walked into Harry Reid’s office on Wednesday and offered to caucus with the Dems I’d recommend giving him the chair of the Joint Committee on the Library of Congress and count it as a victory.
My analysis is based on long-term and electoral college considerations. I’d rather have 67 Democratic Senators that includes people like Harold Ford and Jim Webb, but also with a Republican Party that includes people like Jim Jeffords, Lincoln Chafee, and Nancy Kassebaum than have fifty-three Senators that are all reliable Democrats and no progressives in the GOP. Why?
First of all, any Democratic coalition that has 67 members is going to be able to stop almost all filibusters, prevent the worst judges, and pass progressive legislation. If they can do it with some bipartisan cover and some internal defections, so much the better. Second of all, the Democrats have not been competitive in far too many states in recent Presidential elections. McGovern and Mondale were unable to win more than one state. What are the chances of any Democrat winning 49 states? We simply are not viable in a large chunk of the country. We need to get away from this huge red/blue divide that puts us in a hole in every Presidential election.
To do that, we must win state-wide elections in places like Virginia, Tennessee, Idaho, Montana, Wyoming…
That’s what we are on the verge of doing in these midterm elections.
But this shouldn’t be misinterpreted. What I am saying is that it would be nice to wipe New York and Connecticut free of Republicans, but it won’t mean a thing for our chances in 2008. Winning in Wyoming, Idaho, Nebraska, Kansas, North Carolina, Kentucky, and Virginia? It’s a start in the right direction. As hard as it is to imagine a Democrat winning one of those states in 2008, we simply cannot continue to concede all of them to the Republican nominee. Bush campaigned in Washington, Oregon, Minnesota, Wisconsin…Cheney campaigned in Hawaii. Kerry didn’t campaign at all in 23 states. That’s a problem.
In the long run we need the Democratic Party to be huge. But in order for it to be huge, it cannot be as ideologically pure as it is now. It has to be more nebulous and its appeal has to be populist. That’s what I meant when I said I’d like to see a Congress more like the ones under LBJ. No, I don’t want to welcome back segregationists. I want to win back conservative values voters by improving their wages, their education, their health care, their pensions, and their environment.
I also consider the current ideological makeup of the GOP to be extremely dangerous. I fear cornering them in the Old Confederacy will make matters worse. And they will always have at least a 40% chance of winning any Presidential race. We can’t afford to have a mental patient as one of our two major viable political parties. The GOP needs to heal itself and come back to sanity…it’s essential to the future health of our nation. It’s hard to see how the process can be helped along by a total wipeout of what passes for their moderates in the northeast and upper midwest.
So, given an alternative between moderate gains in the upper midwest and northeast along with strong showings in the plains and mountain states, or a total wipeout in the northeast, I would opt for the former.
Chris Bowers disagrees, arguing plausibly that we will have a more reliable congress that is easier and cheaper to defend if our gains come in blue states rather than red. I don’t dispute that. And I don’t like watching Dems cross the aisle to vote against us. I’m thinking longer term.
We live in partisan times and we must react accordingly. That means we have to go after people like Joe Lieberman that undermine what little leverage we have. But, at the same time, we do not go after Ben Nelson even though he votes with the President 54% of the time. That’s the difference between Connecticut and Nebraska (not to mention a mediawhore and a quiet Senator). Lieberman and Nelson would be a lot less annoying in a Senate with 67 Democrats.
Ultimately, I am a Democrat, but I am more interested in the health of country and our political culture than I am in the purity of the parties. I’ll take a progressive majority over a Democratic one anyday. It may seem counter-intuitive to welcome conservative Democrats in conservative districts over moderate Democrats in moderate districts, but if you think about the health of the country and the electoral college, it begins to make some sense.
In the long run we need the Democratic Party to be huge. But in order for it to be huge, it cannot be as ideologically pure as it is now.
What pure ideology are you talking about? Moderate right wing purity? How much more impure do they need to be?
lol 🙂
Worry about booting the republicans today and tommorrow, and on November 8th the entire left blogosphere can safely take a huge jump to the left regardless of the Democrat party.
If you are looking to the right-wing to strengthen the left… You will die still looking. It doesn’t take right-wing help to do the right thing. They will just dump on you as sure as the national party dumped on Lamont.
The day that “Joe and Suzy Sixpack’s” kid doesn’t die because of their Universal Healthcare plan enacted by the Dems… That is the day the Dem party will experience a rebirth in the south, east, north and west. It will take something that big. All of this “right-wing-left-wing-big-tent” stuff is all just back seat politicking in reverse. If you have the keys, sit in the fucking drivers seat. Drive your agenda forward like a runaway Mac truck and run over anyone that gets in the way.
But that is just my opinion… 🙂
It’s not about using the right-wing to strenghten the left.
If you look back at the New Deal coalition you will find that it was powered by southern populism and southern Democrats and stuff like the TVA. Those same folks were on the wrong side of civil rights and segregation. They helped on the one hand while they hurt on the other. It is no longer necessary for southerners to be racist in order to win election. Now the issue is mainly choice. How many pro-choice people hold state-wide office in the confederacy? I actually don’t know the answer to that, but I think Bill Nelson might kind of qualify. Jim Webb would make two. We can win on choice if we attract people with a more powerful message. The DLC route totally lost the south to the fundies. To get it back we must reject pro-corporist (or at least anti-average joe) policies.
The key is that we don’t really care whether we get a key law on woman’s rights or reject a key judge, by a party-line vote or a bipartisan vote. Given fifty pro-choice Senators and 50 pro-life Senators, I would rather have a 40-10 split in each party than an even 50-50 split. But the key to that is that is that it would only be true if the Senators actually bucked their parties on that issue and voted their conscience. Otherwise, being pro-choice is meaningless, as it is in the case of Arlen Specter.
So, even though it isn’t my job, I hope one result of tomorrow’s election is that it will begin to shake the GOP out of both its majority and its ideologically purity. If it does, then we can respond in kind (eventually) and use populism to build a left-leaning ruling majority that gains strength more from the issues than from the party affiliation.
I think we’ll get better policy, more progress, and a better cultural and political climate that way.
Needless to say, though, I will settle for a big win no matter how it shakes out.
Thank you for bringing up the point about how southern Democrats were crucial to the success of the Democratic Party in the past – even though they were horribly wrong on civil rights issues. You’re never going to get a Democratic Party that’s completely purged of its more conservative elements (as the GOP has done with its liberals and, to a large extent, its moderates), but no one ever said that’s a bad thing.
What most people fail to remember is that perfection is unattainable. Therefore, we work with what we have. Reality may have a liberal bias, but being pragmatic means that we’ll have to take baby steps to get to our destination, whatever that may be.
the progressive, lefty, true liberal types that post on ANY of these blogs…to JOIN THEIR LOCAL DEMOCRATIC PARTY BRANCH… then all of the cavilling and seesawing about moderates and etc would be irrelevant.
(As an aside, and as a pre-emptive strike against Madman calling me a Leninist…this is distinctly and completely NOT leninist, Madman, in fact it is rather the opposite of Leninist.)
The track record speaks for itself – in less than 4 years the “netroots” and the “grassroots” combined have successfully derailed and REPLACED “moderate” democrats in any number of places, including DNC chair (Dean), Senate candidate (Lamont, Tester, Webb), and a large number of House seats (McNerney, Brown, Carney, Sestak, and etc).
There have been a number of losses and setbacks, to be sure, Cegelis really stung, and the Lieberman/Centrist/Establishment stab in the back has been brutal…and others.
But take a minute and look at the last 4-6 years of active participation by folks like you, me, and etc in the Democratic Party.
The next year is going to be crucial, NO MATTER WHAT happens in this election.
So, what’s next?
I say that the droves of people who participate on blogs, especially those who are motivated, progressive, and informed about crucial issues need to;
Use those venues to create social networks.
Use those social networks to get you, your friends, and your allies elected to seats in those unions and elected to secretary, chair, vice-chair, or treasurer of your local party branch.
Use those seats to advocate, push, and propel progressive policies via motions at meetings, resolutions to be brought for a vote, and to get progressives and liberals (explicit liberals!!) elected to state and national union, DNC, or other slots.
It works. It is working right now (in Democrats Abroad, for example), and it WILL work in other places.
We need INFRASTRUCTURE, and by that I mean connected, aware, and active social networks explicitly focused on politics, both within the Democratic Party and in the Nation as a whole.
One example: Look at the way that “consultants” are hired by Democrats right now. Oh. Wait. You CAN’T because there is no explicit requirement to bring hires up for review, to look at contracts, to have bids, or to require reporting and accounting of any kind, much less competitive bidding and review based on performance.
Well, how about a motion to require competitive bids for contracts on web services, phone banking, consulting, ad creation and production? Suddenly, the “old boy network” gets to looking pretty lame, and they lose their seat at the trough…
And there are many, many similar examples…all of which work to make the party more responsive, more adaptable, more open, and more liberal.
The views held by liberals are actually MORE popular in this nation than the views held by conservatives or moderates.
It is about time that ONE of the political parties reflected that.
If we do so effectively, we will win MORE seats.
Gee Red Dan, this cavilling lefty and many others spent hours trying to so much get into a precinct meeting in Chicago, but the Alderman’s office wouldn’t ever divulge when or where such a meeting would take place.
Gathering information for DFA about local democratic party meeting that information was available less than 80% of the time.
I know that what happens Chicago machine is different than what in much of the country. But in Illinois, the Dems don’t want “nobody that nobody sent.”
Get off your high horse.
I know that what happens Chicago machine is different than what in much of the country. But in Illinois, the Dems don’t want “nobody that nobody sent.”
Is that why Forrest Claypool wasn’t given the spot on the ballot? A machine pol, Todd Stroger, was selected instead. And now Durbin and Obama write in support of him on elegant new stationery. This upsets me very much!
In a word yes. It is an exclusive club. The Stroger situation is a disgrace. As was the take down of Cegelis. As is the fact that Dan Seals received virtually no support from the party — it was up to the grassroots to get him as far as he has come.
I no longer live in Illinois, but there are a group of progressives there fighting both the repubs and the machine with incredible tenacity. If you haven’t hooked up with Democracy for Illinois, I highly recommend looking into it. They have had their own organizational issues, but seem to be coalescing into a dynamic, effective group.
Obama really saddens me. He was not the choice of the Democratic Machine. The fact that there was a large field of candidates in the primary, combined with the fact that the grassroots really worked their butts off for Obama is what enabled him to win the nomination and eventually his Senate seat. Now that he is “in”, he has become completely entrenched with the machine leaving his roots (grassroots) in the dust.
This I can get behind. At least then Markos, Jerome, spoon, and all the old/ new boyz network would have some competition.
In the long run we need the Democratic Party to be huge. But in order for it to be huge, it cannot be as ideologically pure as it is now. It has to be more nebulous and its appeal has to be populist. That’s what I meant when I said I’d like to see a Congress more like the ones under LBJ. No, I don’t want to welcome back segregationists. I want to win back conservative values voters by improving their wages, their education, their health care, their pensions, and their environment.
And I want to spin gold from straw!
Booman, you worry me with this lack of cause and effect thought a coherent process. If people like the Dems, it has to be because the dems stand for the correct ideas, AND that message gets out to the people through advertising and deed. In this upcoming election, the Dems are not going to win because of their ideas, but because of rejection of the current repubs. Remember that because if the dems do not come up with a coherent, popular philosophy and get that message out there through deed and media, power will go right back to the repubs as soon as the rejection fury wanes! Therefore, I agree with others who suggest an ideological purity of message, but I go further. Hone that message well, learn how to advertise it properly and widely, and most importantly when you do get power even by a rejection of the other side mentality, show and prove your good deeds to everyone!
That is how you get lasting power which is ideologically pure and meaningful, but you can never let your guard down to the swift-boating by those who want power to do unpopular deeds, except they will never say this!
I would definitely disagree that the Dems are in any way ideologically pure. I would disagree that in reality, neither are the Repugs. There messaging may be more “pure” but I don’t see a lot to back up much of there rhetoric.
I don’t give a damn about the letter that follows the name of a legislator who works for progressive values with integrity. (D) (R) (G) (I) (X) (Y) (Z). Don’t care.
This morning I am having a problem with the comment section of each diary. Have of the left side of comment is cut off. Anyone else? Any suggestions?
Had the same problem. had to download firefox and the problem was solved. (Salunga figured it out!)
That happens in IE7. Use a different browser and you should be fine.
Thanks folks. IE7 was just downloaded yesterday. I knew I should have passed on that. Anyone can tell me how to uninstall? Thanks for all your help.
Can I recommend downloading Firefox? If you click the Other Systems and Languages link, you can get the Widows version.
Once you try it, you’ll never want to go back to IE.
Thanks! I am at the office right now so on a different computer. I am such a techno dummy.
Hey, if a dummy like me can do it, you can too. 🙂
of course, you continue to miss the point.
Ford, Casey, Webb, McCaskill are EXACTLY the same as the Boll Weevils, the Dixiecrats, the Reagan Democrats, George Wallace’s followers. To support their continued infection of the so-called party of the left is to advance Republican goals. It serves to lock in the corporate agenda, to reinforce MORE authoritarian judges, to further erode the rights and opportunities of the American people.
I find the idea that the big “lefty” blogs rant and rave about how traitorous Joe Lieberman is on the one hand, yet you promote candidates to HIS right with great seriousness and lectures about “broad coalitions”.
Wake up.
this is a very low level of debate you are opening with here. You are begging the question and it isn’t at all justified.
You want to lump Harold Ford in with this group? I think you might want to retract that, as it is offensive as well as stupid.
You mention Webb, Casey, Ford, and McCaskill. Which one of them do you anticipate will bolt the party to run on a racist third-party platform?
not all of them “bolted the party” … and yes, I put Ford in that bunch.
that’s worse than asinine.
he’s a pro-war, misogynist, homophobic, pro-corporate nativist … the only thing he isn’t is a white racist (though more than happy to play the race-hatred card against immigrant hispanics). Oh, and he seems fine w/ “fixing” social security.
Sounds like a Blue Dog/Boll Weevil to me. Other than his skin color (and the plantation always needs it’s cooperative overseers), tell me how I’m wrong.
he isn’t a white racist and calling him a boll weevil is offensive. You should be more careful with you language.
someone who tries to capitalize on his race WHILE actively using rightwing talking points to deny equal rights to women, GBLT and hispanic immigrants is VERY offensive to me. I’m not moderating my perfectly valid point of view to make your shallow liberal soul feel better.
…to read through such posts and threads as this, I continue to be impressed and heartened at the depth and quality of the discussion on both sides that’s featured here.
There’s more to chew on than I can appreciate, since I’m less of an election geek than I am a partisan voter with some strong core beliefs.
But still, good stuff, BooMan. Good stuff indeed. Thanks much.
the fact that it’s easier to ignore Nelson is no great thing.
We have but a handful of senators, EVERY one should be an orator that can express their thinking to the nation and speak well enough to sway their fellow senators with reason.
Any senator that is “quiet” should be out.