I can’t predict who will win the vote for Majority Leader between Jack Murtha and Steny Hoyer. I’ve been saying it doesn’t matter, and it really doesn’t. But I have to hand it to Hoyer. He has destroyed Murtha’s image. Do I care? No. Not really. This site is for exposing the corruption of all politicians, regardless of party. If I have a preference it is for Murtha to expose every last bit of sleaze associated with Hoyer. Unfortunately, I kind of doubt he has any of it on grainy black and white 26-year old video tape.
Murtha should have been voted out of office in the 1982 elections. He wasn’t. His district loves him. Is he a good poster boy for ‘crap’ lobbying reform legislation? Hell no. Is Hoyer? A double Hell No.
Maybe one day the Democrats will get their shit together. In the meantime it is best to keep working for better representatives and better leadership. Take the poll.
Right, wrong or indifferent, I have to go with Murtha, warts and all.
This is first and foremost about Pelosi’s power and ability to herd the dem cats in the house. She’s gone on record in support of Murtha and If she wins, she’s in a very strong position, should she not, be prepared for another round of circular firing squad, and an historic opportunity squandered.
I agree with you. I think Murtha will back Pelosi. Hoyer has already shown that he won’t (since he’s bucking her already in wanting to be majority leader).
At this point, it will probably do more short-term damage to select Murtha. In the long-term though, Murtha is probably better for the caucus. But, really, neither one of them should be in our leadership. He want a totally clean image and we want real reforms. We can’t do that with reluctant reformers.
I agree with you, but since there doesn’t seem to be anyone else under consideration…
Put me down for none of the above.
the first two videos, why not final clip,
You know, the one where he says “I’m not interested”???
I call bullshit, Booman, you need to show the whole story.
He refused the bribe.
He refused the bribe, but left the door open for taking the bribe later. Not exactly a shining moment for Murtha.
but was also on the spot, probably pretty shocked/nervous, and probably trying to do so in a way that would not piss off people that he had no idea about in terms of connections, behavior, or etc.
What would YOU do if you were in a similar situation? Perform a citizen’s arrest?
Dan-
you should know this about me…if there is one area where I will not carry water for Democrats it is over ethics. I’m not here to be an apologist for ehtical lapses.
Maybe it is because I grew up in New Jersey and live in Philly, two of the dirtiest places to be a Democrat. But I have no tolerance for it. One reason I want the Republicans to return to sanity is so I can vote for them when a Democrat has ethical lapses. Right now I don’t feel like I can vote for a Republican ever, no matter what.
And that makes for a broken political system and a weakened Democratic Party.
i can’t find the full ending. I know he refused the bribe. It was also 26 years ago. It was also a negotiation over introducing legislation to give Saudi Sheikhs asylum even though they were planning on taking half their country’s wealth with them in exchange for $50,000 in cash.
And he wanted to keep the channels open. I’m glad he turned it down. If he didn’t he would have gone to jail. This is about what kind of man he is, and it goes a lot deeper than just ABSCAM (a test he barely passed). It goes to whether we are serious about cleaning up corruption and what message this sends. It sends a terrible message.
At the same time, Washington is so fucking corrupt that this hardly counts as something out of the ordinary. It just got captured on video and makes a for a major sleaze-a-thon.
Is Hoyer better? No. That’s the problem.
Same page as the first two clips.
I just linked to it and posted it.
You need to post the same link at the top, in the front page.
Tell the whole story, or none.
that is even more misleading. It doesn’t have the whole ending.
RedDan is absolutely right. I wish I could give several 4’s. And it’s strange that BooMan skipped this last part of it.
Murtha, but I’m tired of holding my nose on these choices.
A memory: One Man’s introduction to Philadelphia Politics
In the Abscam days, I called a friend in Philadelphia to discuss one of their pols caught on tape. (My family had moved to Dallas.) His mom answered. She was like a second Mom to me, maybe a first. We always talked for a long time whenever I called. I was filled with righteous indignation. She wasn’t. She asked, who was hurt? So what if one of our guys takes a little money under the table. He’s not a rich man, he has a family to support. What did I want, she said, only rich people to be in politics? They sure won’t look out for us like our guys do.
Then she told me how when her husband lost his eye in an industrial accident and he couldn’t drive a truck anymore, the ward boys took care of him. He had done legwork for the Democratic machine for years. They got him a job as a bailiff. You’ve got to look out for your people, she said. That’s what politics is about. It’s not for choirboys.
A friend of mine ran unsuccessfully for Congress as a Democrat several years ago. He did get the highest number of votes against a Republican incumbent in many years in that district, and the seat is now solidly Democratic.
I was speaking with him about the Murtha-Hoyer contest, and his first instinct was to decry Hoyer’s methods. Hoyer stabbed him in the back, and now Hoyer is really outrageously smearing Murtha. He knows the Congress a lot better than I do, and he thinks Murtha is a saint compared to Hoyer–although Hoyer is a lot slicker.
That ABSCAM stuff is bullshit, in my opinion. Murtha didn’t know who he was really dealing with. He was wisely equivocal. He DID NOT take the bait, and he was never charged with anything.
It better be Murtha. He’s the only one in Congress who had the stones to stand up to Bush on the situation in Iraq. In my book that courage is the most important detail. I also want Pelosi to prevail.
Was the man charged? no!
Was he guilty? No!
Was he interested? No!
I was asked by a very nice lady, years ago, if I wanted to go home with her. I said I wasn`t interested at the time, but maybe later, { Iwas in a relationship at the time.]
26 years later, am I guilty? No!
Actually I kicked myself many times for my response, but I wasn`t guilty.
Politically I`ll stay out of it but I could not judge the man on his not being interested in a “bribe”
Excellent comparison.
I’d go with Murtha, for one really compelling reason.
He took a stand, a very unpopular stand at the time, a year ago, that actually represented the will of the American people — a will that has been emphatically reinforced with the last election.
I follow the news here and over at DKos fairly regularly, and in six years, I haven’t heard a PEEP out of Hoyer on much of anything. Maybe he voted with the caucus reliably, he’s not my rep and I haven’t paid that close attention. If so, bully for him, so did a lot of folks who aren’t now claiming a leadership position merely by virtue of seniority.
But which of those men has shown any sliver of leadership qualities in the past six years, when the party was down and outnumbered?
As far as I can tell, Hoyer has just been keeping his seat warm and his options open. Murtha stood up and said ENOUGH IS ENOUGH, even when he faced a shitstorm for it.
Murtha has balls. Hoyer’s coming across like an opportunist who waited until it was SAFE to be a Democrat again.
I’ll take Murtha any day.
…’cuz if it was, we would have been reminded of this months ago.
Honestly, there’s reason for Pelosi to be wary of both of ’em. IMO, I think Rep. Clyburn should be Majority Leader–I think it’s more suited to his leadership style than being Maj. Whip. But I think either Murtha or Hoyer would be a good Maj. Whip because they both excel at being the bad cop–a job requirement, again, IMO.
But I digress. This is all about Iraq and the fact that the WP still clings to it.
From the Post’s editorial yesterday, A Choice for Democrats:
There’s probably a touch of regional rah-rah, since Steny’s local, but this is about Iraq. ABSCAM & ethics are just a cover.
好~!
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