This started out as a reply to Super’s Diary but it became a bit of a rant…a purging of demons as it were…I have no answers…back then I thought I did, now, I know I don’t.
I wish I didn’t have to comment here…I really just wanted to read what people had to say and get a sense of what and where the ground is. But, wishes aside, the gentrified, homogenized, pasteurized, sanitized for your protection “protests” that occur today are a far cry from those of the 60’s and the 70’s.
As I stated above, I don’t know the answer, but I do know that change is not going to be effected, nor are problems going to be resolved, or influenced in an appreciable manner, until people are in the streets en masse, every week, in every city, on every campus, week in and week out. The big marches and the national media coverage at the time were made possible by the local stuff…things like DJ participates in…think globally, act locally…it all builds…but everybody’s too complacent…put an anti-war bumper sticker on your Prius and call it a day… that ain’t gonna work…I’m sick of limousine liberals and neocon hawks and doves and elephants and jackasses who don’t know what the fuck they’re talking about. The goddamned keyboard brigades, left, right and center, should just STFU and get out there and put their asses in the street…pisses me off…more than it should probably, but jezeus mofos…bah!!!!!
Most of the people…hell, all the people poo pooing the demonstrators are sadly misinformed and hung up in the “glory and rightousness” of their own petty bullshit. There wasn’t any fucking glory then…it was dangerous and people got hurt, killed, thrown in jail, disowned by their families, cast out of their communities, forced to leave the country, chastised for their beliefs…it was fucking painful, it was fucking brutal. I went to more goddamned funerals by the time I was 23 than most people go to in a lifetime…I buried one hell of a lot of friends due to that war and watched too many of them come home fucked up mentally and physically. I was there when we got gassed, got the shit beat out of us, got harassed, arrested, bailed people out of jail, and helped people find refuge. Damn! I really hate going back there…it’s really hard…it brings back the pain…truly makes me just want to cry…scream…grab somebody by the throat and just pound on their dumb asses…it brings back all the craziness and insanity of it.
As to the straw man arguments being put forth by some, here’s an interesting read about “What Happened to Vietnam War Resisters?” from the American Friends Service Committee…an organization I would recommend that anyone contemplating resistance to contact…that may shed some much needed light on the actual scope and number acts of civil disobedience of both civilians and military service members of the time as well as the magnitude of the prosecution of those who did so:
[…]
Draft Law Violators – During the entire Vietnam War, 209,517 young men were formally accused of violating draft laws. Government officials estimate that another 360,000 were never formally accused. Of the former group, 25,000 indictments were handed down; 8,750 were convicted; and just under 4,000 served jail time.
Military Resisters – It is difficult to say how many military service members were prosecuted for offenses growing out of opposition to the Southeast Asia War. Most estimates consider the rates at which service members went AWOL (absent without leave) or deserted – commonly referred to as “absence offenses.” AWOL and desertion rates hit an all-time high during the Vietnam War, 1971 and 1972 being the peak years. The Pentagon documents 1,500,000 instances of AWOL and desertion during the war. Official estimates of the actual number of service members who went AWOL or deserted run between 500,000 (Pentagon) and 550,000 (officials in the Ford Administration). It is important to remember that not all service members who received bad discharges for offenses related to the war were absentees. Adding other types of anti-war activities for which service members were prosecuted significantly increases these figures. Many went to jail and/or received bad discharges.*
[…]
complete article HERE
bolding mine
As I posted in BooMan’s On Bloggers and Demonstrations post yesterday, The demonstrations of the 60’s and 70’s fundamentally changed the political landscape. Too many good people paid too high a price for those changes to have them be lost.
I thought we solved this 40 yrs ago…I don’t want to do it again, I haven’t the strength.
Reprise: this is what protest looks like:
The End
Peace
tip, recs, flames, bilious venom….yer call
I’m grateful a friend emailed the link to your diary. I hesitated posting here… but you’re one of those souls I feel I can share with.
some of those photos… they resemble a mad scene here in Portland when Cheney arrived. I wasn’t here when it happened by my hockey friend was caught in it. Said it was one of the most terrifying events of his life. People were gassed, water hosed and those were people just walking down the street. They started pushing people back with a street gate device. Basically it’s a moving wall.
I’ve met many lately who have been injured. Not just from the early years of Viet Nam but from NOW. I met an 80 yr old VFP guy who has been arrested so many times that he’s lost count.
I don’t want another Kent State. I don’t want any of that… but I know it’s what starts revolutions. And there are many of us ready for when it all slips over the edge.
It’s sad that that is what it takes.
Fuck man, I don’t need to go out and march to face some of this shit… I get it just trying to home at night from work. It’s really starting to get crazy out there.
One night my husband retunred early from one of those no war drum rallies… he said the cops were just too intense… he had the kids with them…
I met a lady in her early 60s from Ohio who had her jaw broke last year by a cop because she was carrying a “BUSH LIED” sign. She was also kicked. She spent 2 days in a hospital.
No it’s not Kent State.. but we keep our heads on swivels. I’m fortunate that for the most part I’m with “seasoned veterans” of protestors. One of them is even a constitutional rights lawyer…. but you never know when a rally, a vigil or a protest at a federal or military building is going to go BERSERK. IT’s something I don’t think many think about. For many, protests are the place to get anti-Bush t-shirts…
I’ve seen really strange things on both sides. I’ve seen where a short second could have changed things drastically… Cool heads prevailed.
But you’re right. A dear friend kids me alot – he says, “girl you’re not a peace activist till they crack your head open”…
Anyways, thank you Dada. Thanks for sharing another part of you. I think of you so much. (I even now own some sage swag :))
I can’t begin to tell you how much I’ve missed you the last few months. So let’s leave it at that for now, and just know that your friend out here in the chilly plains thinks of you often. In fact, we just watched our new dvd of Rocky Horror last weekend, and I thought of you at every moment of your theme song …
Let me just say that as always I love your passion. Your commitment. Your energy. Your boundless love and devotion. OH yeah, you have the sexiest slips too, hehe.
Gonna keep this brief, and just send my best vibes your way and all the support I can muster up from this creaky old carcass and hope you understand. Was over at your place today, and will visit more often …
Your spirit is admirable and boundless. Would that I could muster that up in myself. So revel in it my dear! One in a million… just one in a million….
((((IVG)))) I’d make a better Magenta 🙂
I think that’s why I’ve stuck with CodePink. Many here are part of some other groups that are very… “hardcore”. Mostly civil disobedience stuff. But with CodePink they still are very serious and determined and are actually getting things accomplished (ie the Peace Summit held in Jordan a few months back) and helping refugees and veterans.
But they also do it with a flare of fun. I’m very comfortable with being “ME” around them. I can trust that if the shit hit the fan… we’d take care of each other. Truly, no one gets left behind.
Thank you so much for the well wishes and vibes. I do carry that with me. I’ll try to post some photos of this next event. Ft. Lewis doesn’t like photographs being taken towards their base… last time we got only a few pictures taken actually. We’ll see.
I’m grateful that you you came by. Not a day passes that I don’t think of you and send positive thoughts and blessings your way. Your voice is missed by many here.
It is indeed terrifying when things become violent, and you are wise and well counseled to always be alert to what’s happening around you. It’s good that you have “seasoned veterans” to act as guides…you’re rapidly becoming one of those yourself.
Nobody, least of all me, wants to see another Kent State, Chicago ’68, or any number of incidents, known and unknown, that happened during those times. But I think that we are much closer to the edge than many people suspect, or will acknowledge.
HST had this to say about the edge: The Edge… there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over.
BushCo™ has ramped up the level of fear and anger to the point that it’s not inconceivable that one of those “short seconds” could set off a major riot. To date, they have been able to keep that anger directed toward the people and groups who oppose the war; when that dynamic shifts, and it will, and that anger is directed at them, be prepared to duck. I believe they live in fear of that, and rightly so. I also believe that if they proceed with a major escalation of the war and go into Iran and/or Syria, the resulting conflagration will be the tipping point and the majority of the country who already oppose the policy will turn on them with a vengeance. Much, if not all, of the violence that I saw and experienced then was initiated by overly aggressive use of force by authorities fearful of losing control, often well beyond what was required.
Keep faith in the ability of people to make a change. Keep doing what you feel is right. There are always going to be those who will attack you, as it was then, so is it now.
Be sure and duck and know when to retreat…getting your “head cracked open” hurts like hell.
Peace and Blessings to you and yours my friend.
peace
I don’t which is scarier to me… that it will take violence against protestors for others to committ or wake up or that they are simply waiting for people like to get hurt to finally shit or get off the pot. I’ve actually heard, “the day you get hurt is the day I’ll join you”… do they NOT understand what they are saying??
The every day protests simply don’t get any media attention. You think the news screws up the “big” marches in DC… just imagine the madness of what is happening to groups all over this nation.
Here’s CodePinkPortland facing off with the police in their riot gear. … The police had riot gear, too, just a different type that is.
Want these guys strolling through your neighborhood??
I think it’s fair to say that America just isn’t aware of all the protests…
Don’t worry, dada, I’ll be with some hearty people on Monday. Veterans for Peace, Iraq Veterans Against the War, my pink sisters, and people from Courage to Resist…
And if nasty shit goes down… well, I just don’t know. Anyways, thank you so much.
Be careful Janet and I’ll be thinking of ya’ll.
If I was careful… I wouldn’t be going to an Army base to protest the war and show my support for the people who are raising their voices against this illegal occupation… 🙂
It’s growing more and more apparent that its going to have to come down to those of us who are willing to hit the streets, get hurt/arrested so that others will get out of their comfort zone.
So that others will start risking to dissent.
This once was the land of the free and the brave was it not? Now I am neither. Free no brave.
Don’t think of me. Instead call your Reps, call the media. Sic George on em 🙂
I understand what you’re saying, but I can still hope that people I like don’t get hurt. Call me a worrywort. 🙂
I just hope NOBODY gets hurt. It freaks me out to see the cops getting shoved. It’s all bad.
I do understand the need to protect or voice your concenr. There’s a young man at work that wants to go with me to an event. Says he feels compelled to. He said he’d wear a pink dress if it meant being able to shout with us. (something he doesn’t have to do :)) I’m glad he’s not able to attend this one as I’m very concerned. But I’ll be taking him with me next time.
These are disturbing photos, Janet. I haven’t seen this kind of presence at recent events in my area, please be careful. It seems that, mostly, the local ones by me just get ignored.
They either get ignored or totally lied about.
The most disturbing photos for me are the ones RubDMC shares with us.
I think often of the protestors in Oaxaca… they did everything I wish this country would do. Hell, they even surrounded their news station. Something I’d see myself at. But look what happened to them. They started gunning them down.
You’re right.
The Wolf Spirit will be with you DJ ; )
watching,
wado
Thank you for posting this really moving diary … those numbers … the photos.
You know, that period of time – what went on w/ Vietnam, all of it – is something that I have only experienced from such an abstract space … mostly d/t my age, but also being Cdn, not having family or friends directly involved.
I never thought about what this must be like for those who did experience all you’ve highlighted. Your post helps me see that it is very painful.
I truly believe we won’t have a change ’til we have — as you stated — people in the streets … everywhere. So many people everywhere that they can’t ignore the voices anymore. I’m not sure what it’s going to take to get to that point though … but what’s happening now doesn’t seem to be slowing down the escalation …
About those numbers…
Everyone was involved back then because there was a draft. With our “”volunteer” military, there are FAR fewer people involved directly in the Iraq war.
I’m not sure how you can get numbers like that (or the intensity of protest) when you have only one segment of the population affected by the war.
Not that I’m thinking a draft is a good idea, but it would definitely step up the involvement of the public. I can’t think of anything else that would have the same impact. Can you?
There is a lot of merit in those who argue that it will still result in certain segments of the population who will carry the burden of a draft … I really don’t know what to think … I certainly don’t trust that the process would be carried out fairly — we’d be fools to after seeing the craziness that’s played out over the last few years.
But, then I also agree w/ you in that until this thing reaches people in a way that makes them pay attention nothing will change. Until it’s personal, until it’s forcing them to change the way they live, move about, their everyday consciousness is filled w/ thoughts of it.
I’ve spent some time the last few days thinking about what I’d be willing to give / sacrifice … if it comes to that, would I be willing … It’s a scary thought … unpleasant … and I don’t know what the answers are. I don’t have it clear in my head.
That’s why he keeps introducing a draft bill.
Hey there.
I just don’t think there’s another way. I really don’t. People just really seem to believe this Well, they volunteered! bullshit, as if that makes it better or right.
The immorality of this thing just doesn’t seem to seep in. It seems that people aren’t moved until it’s their ox being gored.
War in any form is immoral. This war is cataclysmically immoral for so many reasons. Not least of which is that the military of this country, volunteered or not, has invaded a country, burned the flesh off of it’s children, hundreds of thousands of them, left so many of our soldiers without eyes to see, legs to walk, and hands to hold their children with, enflamed the passions of the whole world against us, and we sit here and say…we sit here and say that the only thing that will awaken the lazy, self absorbed, self righteous, liberty pimping American public that the only way to stop this war is to get more people murdered.
I’m about at a fukken loss.
Me too, Super. Me too.
I am uncomfortable with raising it. I really am. I know that we are not seeing the full picture of this war–no matter what Junior’s admin says or spins–but I think most of us know that this war is wrong. Period.
People have lost limb and life–Iraqi citizen AND American soldier–as we know damned well. Everyone knows it. And yet. Folks aren’t even angry about it. Let’s make sure we vote…on “American Idol.”
I just don’t understand how people can ignore the pain of other people. Maybe it goes back to this country’s original sin…if you feel you are superior to others, that they are less than you, less than human…perhaps it makes it easier. I dunno. I really don’t.
It wasn’t directed at you personally AP. I just can’t grasp the insanity of anyone (not you) advocating a draft.
I didn’t take it that way, don’t worry. This. Just. Sucks.
Cindy Sheehan spoke about this last time she was in town.
Some heckler got up and started on about how her son VOLUNTEERED…
She had a great reply. She basically asked what other organization does one volunteer for where you can’t leave? Where you can’t leave even if they change the contract against your will? Where you time volunteering gets extended and extended…
Where if you quit “volunteering” you’ll face jail time or other fince?
Damn straight. I hate and absolutely cannot stand that. It’s about the most arrogant thing I’ve ever heard, and that’s exactly the point. Folks don’t think they have to care because they “volunteered” so they can’t be responsible if they are maimed or killed.
And remember, DJ, they’re fighting them there so we don’t have to fight them here, and it’s unfortunate, but that’s the reality. Bleh.
It’s all bullshit. The reality is, these folks asses aren’t on the line for anything, so they can relax in comfort and sleep quite well at night. All these people who blather on and on about “supporting the troops”? No, they are pimping the troops. Because when uncomfortable questions are raised and facts unearthed, they want to put it all on the military. They have no responsibility b/c the military “volunteered.”
What a great line from Cindy Sheehan, BTW. I just don’t know how she does it. I don’t know how you do it. It’s just amazing.
Hey AP thanks for your response.
I hope I got Sheehan’s words correct. It’s been a while and I’m horrible wtih memory… but it was one of those AHA moments. It’s not volunteer…
I’ve heard from so many troops that they just can’t stand the apathy of what they see here when they return. I could write diaries about the many incidents of Accidental Activist running into a Marine…
I don’t want violence. Not at all. Especially when so many I love are the ones out there protesting. When so many of them are vets themselves… or out with their kids. But sadly I think some secretly want it – that in some way it will give some sort of steet cred to the movement… that it’ll light a fire under people’s asses.
I’m not amazing or anything. Truly. I’m just a mom who gets really scared on overpasses and bridges. I’m in awe of what so many of friends do.
Support the troops? I support ending their death and being used as pawns while most Americans sit on their asses and worry about American Idol judges. 🙂
that the people in the street will be joined by those who already oppose the administration’s policies but have yet to get involved.
CG’s comment re: the draft is well made and important in the context of the time. It may well have been the root of much of the protest movement. However, from my perspective, the carry over and cross pollination, if you will, from the civil rights movement, especially as espoused by Martin was also a major factor and often overlooked in discussions of the idea of protests as an effective means to achieve change.
As the war drug on, and was expanded into Cambodia, Laos and other places in the early 70’s…’72…IMS, and Nixon began to unravel, the protests became much more frequent and more prone to violent confrontation. Coupled with the Energy Crisis and a dismal economy, the personal awareness and pain became apparent to a much broader segment of the population, and support, if not direct involvement, rose substantially.
My detailed memory of all this is somewhat blurred by time, but, if I recall correctly, the demonstrations of ’71 – ’72, are in large part due to circumstances much more in common with those at play today. As I responded above to DJ; if the feared escalation of the conflict into Iran and/or Syria comes to pass, that may well be the tipping point which has the villager’s out en masse with torches and pitchforks.
peace
“I thought we solved this 40 yrs ago…I don’t want to do it again, I haven’t the strength.”
Start eating Wheaties, you might be called on again. I remember those days very well. I loved the battle then. Although I don`t relish doing it again, I have a bowl of porridge every day, just in case.
Like you, I don’t relish the idea of doing it again. And love the battle or not…I’m not ashamed to admit that ..not just for myself but for those around me…there were times when I was really afraid.
As to being called on again; I don’t think I’ve had a break yet.
peace bro
I didn`t for a second think you`d even requested a break. Mine were words of encouragement & battlefield humor. Like, “eat your Wheaties, here we go again”. You`d not have to turn around, I`m your back.
Good diary btw. As for “afraid’ I think it`s a built in defense mechanism that boost the adrenalin to help one persevere.
till people feel personally threatened — that’s why the Bush misAdministration is not going to reinstitute the draft; they know that once Mr. and Mrs. Average Voter sees that notice in the mail for their son (and daughter), that will send them over the final edge. It’s the NIMBY syndrome, but instead of Not in My Back Yard, it’s Not My Beautiful Young (Person).
For the vast majority of Americans, deaths in Iraq mean as much to them as deaths on the mean streets of Oakland or New York…and unless they watch Jim Lehrer, the deaths are just as nameless.
Last night, I was listening to one of my favorite Internet radio stations, and the host dedicated his show to the troops in memory of a friend of his who’d died over the weekend — I wish I could remember the guy’s name. He said, “We’ll be doing this once a month till our guys and girls come home…and let’s face it, they’re never coming home so we’ll be doing this for a long time.” As I sat on the couch with my right leg elevated (doctor’s orders), I could only hope that he’s wrong, that our troops WILL be home someday…but I fear that he might be right, and that few Americans will notice the difference…
I saluted you, and the others that helped end the madness.
Today, I salute you again sir.
BRAVO Sir ; )
wado my friend
I marched alongside many VN vets, and was honored to do so.
thank you
peace bro
In his diary Supersoling mentioned this diary by leftvet posted at Kos last week. If you haven’t read it – worth a look.
Thanks dada.
Thanks leftvet.
excellent diary…thanks for linking it again NL.
peace
I particularly remember attending one rally in Boston back in the day. It didn’t get too ugly but it was sure different from now.
Apparently people are fearful of anarchy or it is just out of fashion.
Thanks for reminding us, dada.
Dada, thanks for this diary, it brings back pretty recent memories for me. One’s I didn’t experience myself, but that people close to me went through.
In the ’90’s here in Ontario we had quite a few of the types of protests you mention above. The Ontario Teacher’s Union being trampled by cops on horseback. The anti-globalists being beaten by batons. Dudley George shot and not allowed medical care until he died.
Yes, Ontario in the 90s, under our Conservative Premier, Mike Harris, was on a similar path that your country is now. Luckily we stopped it and now the police stand far back and just check out the protests. But it took the news and word of mouth to carry those photos of brutality against the civilian population to change things. Those protests, on a regular basis, sure did make a difference.
I also want to mention that there are still a LOT of draft-dodgers up here who refuse to go back to the States even though an amnesty was passed. They fear being “disappeared” at the border. Not an unreasonable fear.
And for a taste of what would happen to your northern border should the draft be reinstated (and for all those calling for a draft to change things — go sign up for the war right now and get your kids ready to go. They should be first in line), here’s an article from Counterpunch.
I was going to respond to the ridiculous logical fallicies surrounding super’s diary yesterday as well, but I really can’t find the energy to do so.
Well,
I’d be interested to here anything you have to say whether directed at my opinions or anything I wrote or not.
Peace
You’re not immune up there, but it’s certainly not advanced to the stage that it has here.
Thanks also for the Counterpunch link. I’ve been following the Cdn border issue and hadn’t seen that.
peace
You had the energy to mention “ridiculous logical fallicies”. You could drink a Red Bull & enlighten me about your comment, or maybe, when you had the energy & read his diary, you could have used it then.
Really? This from someone who couldn’t bother to correct their diary where they named the Prime Minister of Canada “Brian” and I dropped a comment in there to ask you to correct it to Stephen, his actual name?
When you have some respect for cultures outside your borders and correcting the record you can feel free to preach to me about how I express myself.
In case you’ve forgotten the diary from last week, it can be found here:
http://www.boomantribune.com/story/2007/1/27/12255/0499
I asked you if it could be corrected. I got no response. I read that even BooMan couldn`t change it in another diary. I also would like to note that I know as much about your culture as you do & maybe, just maybe, a little more. I come from your country which is mine also The “just maybe” part is that I was born & raised in the province of Quebec, which is also culturally different from english Canada, but as a nationalist & a bilingual Canadian, I never judged you as being culturally different from myself. Now about that energy, I still don`t know what you meant. You don`t have to answer my previous question, but I didn`t understand the comment.
Excuse me? You didn’t respond to my comment so please don’t claim you did, and yes, there is an “edit” button on every diary. It’s front and centre on each post you write.
Not rocket science.
And you were born in PQ. Great. Good on you. I wouldn’t have assumed that by your conflating the last Conservative PM Brian Mulroney with the current Conservative PM Stephen Harper. But that’s just me, I can only infer from words on a page. You evidently can figure out divine intent just by what I wrote in one comment, with absolutely no historical context, or even freakin’ current context. Good on you.
Effort, yeah, I participated in that diary. Perhaps you didn’t notice, or didn’t bother to read. But BooMan and Tracy I’m done with, which was who I was talking about since you decided this was your business.
Spiderleaf, I`m very sorry. I most certainly did not mean to offend you in any way. I`m not that familiar with how diaries work. Any other diaries [not many] that I have posted, I needed help doing them. I went back that day to see if you had responded to my asking if I could change it, but did not even see my comment. I thought it could not be changed. Now I see what you mean by that “edit” button. i will go change it. At the time I wrote the post asking if it could be changed , I explained that an old friend of mine `s name is Brian Harper, & I had goofed it up. Why it didn`t register as a comment is probably a similar brain flashback. I just wanted to apologize to you before going back to try that “Edit” button. I try & learn something everyday & I did. And yes I did read that diary but did not understand the context of your comment at that time. I was being funny not sarcastic. I hope you understand.
Spiderleaf, I found the “edit” button & changed the name. I couldn`t find it after your comment but it does appear after I open the second page. Thanks.
Thanks for giving me the courtesy of a reply Spiderleaf. Here and in email. Hit and runs suck. Especially from people you percieve as friends.
I’ve been fucking busy super, I don’t spend my life on BooTrib any more. I was out all night at industry events and working on a proposal this a.m. I had to respond to Knucklehead before I went to bed and was planning on responding to you in the morning.
I have your email open and was typing a reply when I stopped in here first. Would you still care for a reply or have you written me off as a ‘hit and run’ poster?
I grew up just outside of Chicago and the 68 dem convention riots will forever stay with me. I was scared to death because my sister was working for McGovern then and was down there. I so wanted to be with her but mom wouldn’t let me. I was only 16.
The cops beat protesters with nightsticks and dragged them to paddywagons. No one wants to see that again but what we are doing now just isn’t enough. I am hopeful that the longer this administration stays arrogant and defiant to the will of the people and congress the more pissed off we will get. It just cannot come soon enough.
was my baptism by fire…it was very scary, and I will never forget it. Will always have the scar to remind me.
thanks!
peace
I wanted to share a little conversation I had at the Los Angeles Protest. I had a sign that a cop liked (it was a reference to the show “Heroes” which he loved.)
But he wanted to talk about something else. He asked me a question for which I had no answer. He asked,
“Why is it that the anti-war protestors are so rude to the police? You’d think that the good guys, the people who want to keep others from being killed, would all be on the same page. Why is it that the Jesus freaks — the ones who want to bomb abortion clinics, are always so nice to the police?”
I could think of a few answers, but none seemed appropriate at the moment.
I think it’s worth checking that we don’t vent our frustration at symbols of authority just because they happen to be present. I think it’s worth realizing there are a lot of policeman who are with us on this one – many more than I think we with us during the Vietnam protests, when anti-war people were knee-jerkedly painted “Commies.”
Just my two cents.
I agree so much – the time for typing at our keyboards is past. It’s time for more direct action.
BUT – I want to make clear I mean direct action ala that led by Gandhi or Martin Luther King, Jr. Direct but peaceful — always peaceful — nonviolent protest. I fear there are some who think until you provoke a confrontation you haven’t protested loudly enough. But I think we only win by modeling what we’re trying to accomplish. As someone else here has been posting (Jeff Huber? I can’t remember just off the bat) – a war is won or lost before it is waged.
The same holds true of a protest. If you are in the right, and come with the right attitude, and in enough numbers, you will prevail. The decisions we make in advance of the protest have everything to do with its success, or failure.
As you say, along with the larger protests that produced the police riots, violence, etc. there were many small acts that irritated the government. I think these small actions had more effect that you may have been aware. It was these small things, which taken together, opened the eyes of many, I think – along with the big things. Those small things gave a lot of people courage to engage in the big things.
I recall living in San Antonio, seeing young men that I knew be drafted, go away, and come back after a year. Damaged, in some cases, ok in others. But a few, drafted, were pressed into alternate service as conscientious objectors. These men, I saw being ridiculed, made to serve, in some cases, in facilities where they were not treated well because they were COs. The lesson was intended to say “shut up. Do not oppose the official policy. Agree with the official policy or you will suffer greatly.” That wasn’t the effect, however, as I saw people begin to question whether the Constitution was being upheld in such treatment. It’s that questioning that would lead a jury to find for innocence, when you can bet the jury was screened to remove people strongly against the war.
Before the 1968 convention, there was Gene McCarthy, the admirable, quiet man who decided to run against his own party, against the war. I have always had trouble with the hagiographic descriptions of Robert Kennedy, when I think of the courage of McCarthy taking on the dragons of war without a name or national audience. And I remember the many young persons who took on a more conservative dress and appearance, to go door to door, talking to people about McCarthy and his concern for ending the terrible war. The Senator and his workers, they had their effect also.
I recall the ever optimistic, techno-absorbed young man I knew, who went into the army, blissfully unaware of political currents. He had hardly read a newspaper, if it didn’t pertain to some early techy thing. Get that service over with, go to MIT or Caltech if possible. Republican parents strongly agreed. Not good to take deferments, that’s unfair. A letter home to his parents: Mom, this war is a terrible mistake. And in another month he was gone. His loss had its effect, too. Parents that were war hawks became anti-war (they still are). Other friends did, too.
===No more examples.It’s a good question that you ask, Dada: didn’t we solve this 40 years ago? However, what I see happening here, isn’t pro-war vs. anti-war. No. What I see here, another effect of this misbegotten conflict, in this small locality of space, is anti-war vs. anti-war.
What I want to know is this: How can a group of people, all of whom I’ve seen writing and commenting here regularly being against this war, turn on each other? How can it be that person attacks person? Why can’t we discuss and differ on strategy and tactics, given that the goals aren’t that different, at least with respect to this war? What’s the gain to this?
I don’t mean to anger anyone, I’m not trying to do that. I simply don’t like the damage to this community if people are classified by whether or not they take to the streets, by whether or not we all know what they do against this war. Each individual has to make their own choice about where to fight this fight. If I’m willing to be arrested, to have my head cracked, there is a cost. That cost may be greater or lesser depending on who else I am connected to. Children? Spouses? Should they also pay? Only the individual can answer those questions. If I don’t see what you do, other than your words, that doesn’t make you a limousine liberal and me a true activist. Please, can we not go there?
Thanks, Dada, and Super.
Kidspeak, very nice of you to articulate my thoughts. Funny thing, I was out looking at the moon, just risen, & after three days of intermittant rain,it`s sharper than ever. And I thought of you & Teach on the overpass. Nice comment & am glad you brought two good diaries into a circle.
Beautifully stated, Kidspeak. Thanks
Big Hugs
Shirl
I remember well, dada. On the other side of the pond, it was hard, too. Protesting was no picnic… gas, batons, beatings… but we had to protest.
I remember Chicago 68: “The whole world’s watching!”…
I see no need for violence. I do see a need for more protest more often. The larger the number of people the more attention a protest receives. After a while these things get hard to ignore. I feel like Washington is the city where a march will get the most press. No I did not believe the last one received fair coverage. But was very encouraged to see, the next morning, a huge color picture on the front page of the Washington Post. This picture was of the marchers and not the celebs or certain controversial participants. So power to the people! Lets do it again in DC as soon as possible.
March on the Pentagon
My Mother was there 40 years ago. I’ll be there too.