I know you’ll read this when you get home. You read all the stuff here every day. Mom please stop coming to this place. I have told you face to face that this place is not healthy for you. You always talk to me and help me when people are not healthy for me and I’m hanging around with them. These people are not healthy for you mom. They don’t care about you and honestly they enjoy hurting you and you are letting them. I know these were the first people who were really nice to you when you were hurting inside about Dad and Iraq but they are like Wren. They were your first friend on your first day at a new school and a lot of the time that isn’t a very good friend. It hurts me when you hurt so much. Please let it go mom. They have hurt you and they have hurt all of us enough. It is okay to let them go mom. Nobody will blame you. You didn’t do anything wrong. You are the best mom I know and I want you to be happy inside again so please stop coming here. Our family can’t do what it needs to do mom when you are sad so much. I love you.
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First off I love you more than I love life. This was very hard to read all the way through and I’m sorry that my grief has had the impact on you and your brother and daddy that it has. Life is so multifaceted in so many ways and more than anything I wanted this Iraq horror to end for us all, for all of our friends, for my country, for the world…and I hurt so badly about it all you are right, I have done a very poor job of practicing what I preach. I have not allowed the adult self within me to run this show and it has become a carnival. I’m laughing now because don’t I always tell you when the student is ready the teacher will appear? Nobody here wants what I teach right now because I wasn’t meant to be the teacher here and when this student was ready my teacher appeared. Love you always! Love you to the moon and back! Love you to the stars and back! Love you to the end of the universe and back! I will do better from here, I promise. I won’t waste my energy anymore because I am afraid and feel alone, there is so much more at stake. I am not a mistake and my energy is a very precious commodity given to me by my creator. I ask the universe to forgive me for squandering what was given to me while so many suffer. This is not where I was meant to be and this is not what I was meant to be doing and I will be a better mom from this place onward too….no more waste, no more squandering. I am so humbled to be your student today. This is why I am a parent and why I am your mom and wanted to be your mom, so that this day might happen, and it has. I am blessed. My cup runneth over and over again.
Dear B,
I just have to stick my nose in here and tell you what a wise young woman you’re becoming. So many times, we moms wonder if our children are even listening to what we say when we try to teach them about living a good and happy life, and here you are, putting it into action. I can tell from reading this that you are a lot like your mom, in all the best ways.
You are all very lucky to have each other.
Xoxo,
CG
Real life. Ain’t it grand?
Just live it and be happy MT, Mr. MT, Bean and Little Dude.
{{{family}}}
no one, nor anything can love like a mother ; )
bless you
wado
I want to rescind my rating on the first comment if not physically, then in words.
No one here has intentionally hurt anyone. Everyone must find their space. The world is a big place and within it, space abounds.
Now you are coming after my kids. Listen here you Son of a Bitch, don’t you ever use my name in any diary ever again. I fucking hate you you pig. Fuck off and die! Go away and leave me and my family alone. Fuck You Fuck You Fuck You! If I could remove what you put up here I would. I do not want to erase my daughter’s words because she has been through enough and she doesn’t need that disrespect. So now I must find a way to prevent her from reading this diary again but if she does she will see that I did not allow you just hurt me again and take it. FUCK OFF YOU SON OF A BITCH! If you think I’m going to allow you to hurt my children you are dead fucking wrong. You, Janet, Spiderleaf……..lowest life forms around and Leezy isn’t much further behind. Stay away from me all of you!
Wow! Someone is not allowed to ask questions of you? No one attacked you personally Tracy. You’re “fuck off and Die” statement is way overboard.
want and ignore the answer as many times as you want. That’s the game isn’t it? But when someone asks you point blank if you think the U.S. military should be disbanded and the U.S. not have a military throw your hand over your mouth and say, “Oh no, that’s not what I meant.” What the fuck do you want from me you psycho spoiled brat “peace activist”? If this was about a job and money Leezy my husband wouldn’t be in the United States Army. He’d be flying for a “security firm” making $12,000 a month tax free and we would live in the new mansion subdivision with all the other “security firm” families here! Get out of my daughter’s diary you bitch.
What was the question being asked of Tracy here?
talking about here…….yeah, she wasn’t taking aim at me or anything in Super’s diary when she asked it.
well Tracy, it is the only question I have asked you here in months and months.
“Help me to understand then (none / 0)
how you don’t support this illegal occupation except for your husbands job? I am not being snotty I just want to know.
Frodo failed…Bush has got the ring.”
I really was trying to understand and was trying to phrase the question as nicely as I could. Never meant to get involved in this shitstorm. Calling me a physco bitch is really uncalled for.
You also may not know how she is bad mouthing Booman Tribune over at Dkos. I will take leave now because this is so not worth my time.
I didn’t read all of the other diary, so didn’t understand what you were talking about, that’s all.
This is just the same round of people saying the same things over and over again, about how their clique is the only that’s allowed to voice an opinion. Old and tired, and not worth my time either…
Mega-trolled for baseless and factually incorrect (as has been pointed out to you for months now) accusations.
Don’t worry about our supposed clique CG, you’re dating the site owner, quite the difference in balance of power, eh?
I’m just stupified as to why you felt it necessary to point that out, spiderleaf. Unless you can prove that she influences BooMan in his running of this site. And even if you can, it’s nothing more than mildly interesting.
Because she is an admin and enables Tracy in her insulting and abusive posts. She is best friends with Tracy, Tracy has said she talked to BooMan, CG said she talked to Tracy about all of this and then tries to play innocent and so on.
It was perfectly in line with what I have observed. Just calling for full disclosure.
If you post pics on the net, they are out there. It was relevant to me when she was claiming we are a clique out to terrorize poor Tracy.
You don’t have to agree, but I have every right to point it out if I see a conflict.
and keep me and my photos out of this.
This whole discussion has become ridiculously personal.
Oh yeah – well I happen to know you were wearing a GREEN shirt!
Sorry, you posted them for the world to see. I happened to see them and found it relevant.
Thems the internets.
And yes, ridiculously personal. I don’t appreciate being falsely accused any more than the next person. Hence my response.
Oh, and Man E, please. Bringing you into it? What a childish response.
HOW did I bring you into it other than to link to a photo you posted? Should I have written a disclaimer “views expressed by this poster do not reflect the photographer”? Please. It’s so obvious it’s laughable.
YOU inserted yourself into this most inelegantly and for no reason other than to take sides it would appear. If you have an issue with me, tell me. Don’t use public photos as some sort of friendship test…. ‘have you now, or have you ever been a member of BooTrib…’
Seriously. that’s beneath you.
One last reply to you ever.
To make those photos private now is rewriting history. Something I’m sure you know a hell of a lot about.
It’s shameful.
But I guess history is written by the victors, right? And only the truths that are most convenient should be told?
Wow.
Why did you get involved in this exactly? I pointed to something that has influenced behaviour and power dynamics on this site and directly affected me and many others. Up to and including the false accusations that were thrown at me by an admin in the comment I responded to. You chose to take that truth away from me and give the power back to the boss. Thanks Man E.
With friends like me I guess you don’t need enemies.
Right now
Oh, and for lying. If you didn’t read the diary why did you post a comment in it?
http://www.boomantribune.com/story/2007/1/29/222620/990#86
sorry, lying was too harsh. You did say you didn’t read all of the other diary. But really, as an admin and so close to the site owner it really behooves you to get all the facts before taking sides as we’ve all been trying to tell you for months now.
But keep defending an abusive prick like Tracy all you want. It makes a mockery of the FAQ’s.
i hate these stupid jr. high ratings wars, but you did just call MT an abusive prick, something which you mega trolled others for doing.
I sure did. The rules of the site say “don’t be a prick”. I was just quoting the FAQ’s and added in abusive because of what she said on this thread.
She said far worse than what BooMan’s definition of troll worthy is – prick. If you don’t like the term, take it up with the boss.
who’s says you can’t go back to junior high school?
Having fun today Spidey?
Hey, you’re the one selectively enforcing your site rules. Did you read what Tracy called supersoling, Janet, leezy and myself? Is that acceptable? She’s done it before and you’ve done nothing. Would any other user be allowed to do the same?
Until you take care of your hypocrisy, damn straight I’m going to call you on it. Not fun at all, but necessary.
can I ask you where you the got the impression that I am dating CabinGirl and why you think that is something you should share with the entire world?
I think you are fully aware of how I feel about catnip discussing my personal life without my permission. I don’t understand why you do things like this.
I saw her hand on your knee in the picture from DC that I linked to. Not hard to put two and two together BooMan. Kinda puts all the other things I observed the last couple of months in perspective for me, so I thought it was worth noting if she was going to attack people who have had to put up with numerous insults, taunts and plain old bullshit from Tracy the past few months.
care to try the truth, since we both know that isn’t the source of your suspicion?
friggin crickets….
Hi, I was out meeting a client. Real world stuff.
Huh? Where I heard what? Care to enlighten? I noticed a while ago, and commented on, that CG was an admin and making changes to the blog template. Didn’t really think much of it except you were friends. Now I know better having seen that pic.
Is there something I’m missing? I know you said catnip shared some personal info via an email with you, but I never pried as to what that was. In fact, I remember asking you guys to stop sniping on my blog. Was this that issue?
Is this a joke?
You came to New York to visit supersoling. You were going to meet me and CabinGirl but we had to cancel because of the illness of one of her children.
You are now pretending that you don’t remember this?
You are now pretending to have been tipped off by a hand on knee in a photo?
I’m sorry. This is an immensely dishonest display.
You are catnip’s source. She had no other possible source other than supersoling and he has adamantly and convincingly denied being the source.
For you to feign ignorance is the height of disingenuousness.
I was angry at catnip for posting about my personal life. It’s one thing to know, it’s another thing to put it on the internet for all history to document.
But you pretend to have discovered this through the analysis of a photo when you have known from direct contact with us for months?
Why do you think I will let you get away with this?
You told catnip. I know you did. And she used a gross lack of judgment in posting about it.
And now you want to play this game?
And even if I am wrong and you were not catnip’s source (I admit the possibility) you still knew from our emails arranging to meet with you and from our cancellation. You are an enormous liar.
Fuck you.
I knew what about what? You and CG live in Philly and were going to share a car ride with Chris, who also lives in Philly is what I knew. Care to make a bet? Did we ever talk about you guys being together? Did CG mention it on the phone when I talked to her? One of her kids came down with poison ivy and you guys lost your ride. That’s what I knew. I had my suspicions, but I knew, nor assumed anything.
How incredibly insulting Martin.
If you thought that you could have asked a long time ago. I feel completely set up now realizing you guys were dating and I thought you were independent. And now you try and pin this shit on me? Have you no decency left?
you are truly in Scooter Libby land here.
Really? Prove it.
Baseless accusations fabricated out of thin air? That’s Rove-land my dear Martin, and quite beneath you. I know you don’t trust or respect me, that’s cool, I don’t trust or respect you either. But don’t try and libel me with accusations you can’t back up.
I told you what went down and you choose to continue to lie. Yup, I can see why MT has carte blanche with you. It’s always ALL ABOUT YOU, isn’t it?
I still expect an apology for the baseless and ignorant accusations.
and of course, if there was any communication between us prior to your trip up to LI I give you my permission to post it for the world to see where I knew you and CG were together.
But of course, you can’t produce that can you, since there was none. Try again with your libel Martin.
Do you really want to pursue that line?
Seriously?
It’s not like I didn’t talk to you on the phone. Your feigned ignorance might confince a couple people but it is a flat out lie and I trust people know me well enough to know that I wouldn’t make shit up.
You knew then and you are pretending otherwise. You not only knew but you spread that info around and it got published as a result.
I didn’t talk to you on the phone.
Let’s ask the phone company. I have absolute confidence I will be vindicated. I’ve never spoken to you on the phone, you must be thinking of someone else.
Try again or stop libeling me.
Bullshit.
Prove it. I know I never spoke to you. You are mistaken and are quite the liar yourself.
When did you speak to me? Some details please.
On your cell phone when your progress had been delayed due to weather IIRC. I talked to you and apologized for not being able to meet you and explained that we could not meet you because of the sickness of a child.
You are the worst kind of liar.
Booman, I was there with spiderleaf the only time you guys almost met up, and I can definitely say that we were never held up by the weather. I remember spidey speaking with CG on the phone, but I don’t remember her ever speaking with you. If by any chance we’re both amnesiac about that, then at the very least I can confirm that the conversation wasn’t memorable.
It’s very disheartening to see you degenerate to calling people petty names, and without good reason. But I guess it’s easier to do that than to contemplate the real problem: you guys have been enabling and encouraging a mutual friend whose behaviour is fast approaching a critical danger to herself, her family, and who knows who else.
And of course I could provide my cell phone records to disprove everything you’ve said, but that would be OUTING MYSELF wouldn’t it Boo? You certainly wouldn’t sanction that, would you?
I have the records. You ain’t on them. I never spoke to you. You lied and libeled me repeatedly and at the very least I expect an apology asap.
Oh, I almost forgot, Mr. Liar, that I was looking for either you or super when we got to the Fairgrounds at 4PM, because I was so happy to get to meet you, CG and Chris. I only knew what you and super looked like so that’s how I was hunting in the crowd. CookTing can verify that, as he has already. Of course this was well after you’d told super, ask and AG you weren’t coming. And a few hours before I spoke with CG for the first time. All of which the cell phone records bear out.
So… apologies and updates on each of your comments calling me a liar are SO well in order. Or do you still claim to have spoken to me? If so, provide proof (without outing my identity… which would be pretty hard considering you don’t have my cell phone # and it would just be an abuse of your database) or you are continuing to libel me.
Take your pick.
the records will show that CG called you and I talked to you at that time. If it was after you arrived then that was when it was. The point being that you knew I was with her, you knew that we were coming together, and you then told others about it, including catnip, who then accused me of bias based on that information.
And then you were privy to me having a cow about catnip’s discussion of my personal life, fully knowing what it was all about.
And now you represent yourself as having discovered this information by analyzing a photograph. That is dishonest. You are a liar.
You are also out of control on this site flaming in several threads at once. Take a break.
Really. Prove it. Email me the phone record where it shows CG called me. She called super. I talked to her on his phone. Never spoke to you. It really sucks I have this good of a memory doesn’t it? One of my gifts.
Try again Boo.
Liar. Keep pushing these lies BooMan, it suits you so well.
I’m flaming my own diary? Didn’t know that was possible. You should actually read it. There’s a troll in there stirring up shit.
Fine. She called supersoling and I talked to you on his phone. What difference does it make? You are still a liar.
Bullshit, and more bullshit. You guys are so trying to spin your way out of this. It’s quite amusing.
See my response to CG. You guys are pathetic liars.
Whatever. Why would I make that up? What purpose would it serve?
Let’s stick to the point.
The point is that you learned we were dating last July. You learned it in the process of coming down to visit supersoling. You learned it and you gave that information to catnip. And there was no reason for you not to give the information to her, but you are pretending that this information is new to you. You are pretending that you figured it out by analyzing a photograph.
I remember talking to you on the phone. CabinGirl confirms my memory. But it isn’t critical to my point that my memory is correct. What is critical is that you knew we were together with her children at her house and that we couldn’t go meet you because we had to look after one of her children. I’m sure you discussed all of this with super at the time. I’m sure he would confirm that.
So, what’s your point? That you are not a liar? Because you are definitely lying.
Did I tell catnip? Is she backing you up on that? In your first comment you said you might be wrong about that. But now you are certain and that’s your main point?
I didn’t learn anything about you Boo, I really couldn’t care who you were dating until it started to become an issue as you let your site get taken over by an abusive prick who is your girlfriend’s best friend. The only problem here is the two of you allowing Tracy to shit all over people here and drive off other members. You don’t want to deal with that so you’ve decided to go down this ‘lying’ path with me. Quite transparent and inelegant. I had my suspicions since she is an admin and you go to DL together, but nothing concrete until that picture made it QUITE obvious. No analysing necessary.
You can try and spin now that CG handed the phone to me all you want, but we both know that ain’t the truth, as does CookTing whose comment you have yet to address up thread.
you are just lying. Even if we agree to disagree about the phone call based on differing memories, you still don’t dispute the basic facts. You knew then. You were the source for that becoming an issue about Tracy. You did that. You.
At first I thought it was supersoling and I wrote him an angry email. But then I remembered that you knew too. And he convinced me that he had not said anything. No one else that was in a position to know and was involved in that controversy.
So yeah, I know it was either you or CookTing. You haven’t even tried to deny it. But we all know. It’s not that hard of a mystery to solve.
Let’s see, it could have been you, or it could have been uh…hmmm…uh…
Atrios could have written catnip. I guess it could have been albert or Chris. Nah. Not very likely, I gotta admit.
I’m sticking with you.
Of course you can’t admit it now without admitting what a big fat liar you are. But that’s my point. You are a big fat liar.
I do deny it and have, vehemently. Are you not reading my comments?
Think whatever you want, I didn’t tell anyone nor did I know. I’m not lying and you are just making up stories to fit your pre-conceived outcome.
Yeah, I’m responsible for Tracy. Whatever. LOL. That’s too funny. I caused her to melt down and become psychotic? Okay. Try and prove that one. Do you have no facts to back up your assertions?
Take a look at what long standing members of your community think about how Tracy is/ has behaved. They’ve made themselves quite clear.
July 5th- I get an email from super inviting me to a Blues Festival, offering me a beer, and telling me that you are dying to meet me (or elbow me in the ribs).
July 8th- We cancel, talk to the group by phone.
July 19th- Catnip writes me: “I heard through the grapevine that you’re supposedly dating CabinGirl, one of Tracy’s best friends. How nice for all of you. Now I understand more of what’s been happening if that is true. Best wishes to all of you.”
What was the universe of people that knew outside of people here in Philly? It was supersoling, you, and CookTing. No one here in Philly was even involved. So give me a break with your bullshit denials.
If we just analyze you comment above it is obvious you are lying.
That’s exactly how catnip put it. Isn’t that a strange coincidence. Did you, like Scooter Libby, forget that you knew about this last July until you remembered it when you saw a photograph?
Everyone can see you are a liar and I am about ready to ban you for pissing me off with your lying.
Your going to ban me? Really. How interesting BooMan.
Tracy has free reign to insult, abuse and bully people for months and yet I’m denying something you can’t prove and I’m going to be banned?
Sure, go ahead. Hypocrisy ‘R Us.
And if you notice, the paragraph you quoted was something I’ve been saying since SN asked me initally why I posted a link to the photo. No collusion there at all.
I’m sure it was CookTing. He cares so much about your petty bullshit. I don’t even think he’s been to catnip’s blog before.
it was you.
For fucks sake it was not. Jeebus.
Just because you keep repeating it without proof does not make it true.
my choices are to believe you or to believe supersoling. It’s an easy choice.
And you just admitted that who I was dating became an issue for you in July when the military thing blew up. How could it have been an issue for you then if you didn’t know who I was dating and that they were friends with Tracy?
Answer: it couldn’t. You knew and you made sure it was an issue back then. Then you just brought it up again using the picture as a pretext.
Aren’t you ashamed to lie so brazenly?
I didn’t say it became an issue in July, if you read my first couple of comments I said it became an issue the last couple of months.
Do you enjoy making things up about me?
I don’t know what happened or who told whom what. I told you I noticed it the last few months and was thinking you guys MIGHT be dating. Then when I saw the picture I knew for sure.
What the hell is your problem?
Booman, I have been reading this particular thread and I must say I had no idea about this,(you and CG) but is it possible that someone or other put 2 and 2 together and thought it might be possible for the dating thing, after all you are located very close to each other and near the same age and frankly I was hoping that you two would get together. So is it possible that it could have been as innocent as that and not a major thing like has been evolving here.
Just food for thought !!!!
Diane-
I admire your patience with all of this.
It wasn’t someone putting 2 and 2 together. It was someone telling catnip. And the point of telling her that was to imply that I was not banning Tracy because she is friends with CG.
Therefore, it was someone that was on ductape’s side of that argument. The only people that knew at that point were people here in the Drinking Liberally chapter (none of whom know catnip and none of whom were on ductape’s side of that argument). Other than that only spiderleaf, CookTing, and supersoling knew. I think Second Nature knew too, but she wasn’t involved.
It’s a simple matter of elimination.
But it is even more obvious than that. Because she just admitted that it became an issue for her in July. But how could it have become an issue for her if she didn’t know about it?
It couldn’t.
I think I have demonstrated beyond any reasonable doubt that she lied when she said the photograph was the moment when she put 2 and 2 together.
She lied and she gave herself away with her own words.
I point out she is a liar because I want people to understand what kind of person she is and why she enjoys being disruptive so much.
As for Tracy, I have warned her for her recent behavior. And I’m warning spiderlead that my patience is limited for a liar that likes to talk about my personal life.
So BooMan, where’s my apology? Did you read Nanette’s comment?
give me a break. Nanette didn’t know anything. You knew. But you told me you didn’t know until last week. You are sticking to your story that you didn’t know until last week?
Don’t change the subject. You accused me of something without proof and called me numerous names. You were incorrect as Nanette points out. It sounds like a lot of people knew well before it even came onto my radar.
As I said, I had suspicions, I didn’t know until I say the picture. End of story.
And it just so happens that it was completely relevant to what is happening on the site now and for the last few months.
So, where is my apology? Or do you not admit when you are wrong and being a prick?
BooMan-
I’ve read through this whole thread, and I don’t think it is as cut and dry as you are making it.
If you go back and look, I think the message you got from catnip is just coincidentally near in time to when you were supposed to meet up with spiderleaf…you’ll see it is much, much closer in time to when catnip had a huge argument with you and CG (link)
If what nanette says is true (and I have to assume that it is, god knows why else nanette would wade into the middle of this) then it would be entirely within the realm of possibility that catnip heard from someone else. She may have even (actively or passively) solicited that information by mentioning that particular argument elsewhere.
The point is that spidey claimed that the first she knew of this was this photograph. She knew firsthand. She knew secondhand. She participated in flamewars at MoBettaMeta where I flamed catnip for bringing it up. She brought up this photo to reinflame an argument from July. She didn’t forget the argument from July. And that is what she is claiming.
I think she told catnip but that is not the point. I don’t care who told catnip. I care that she is a liar.
Jesus christ. I said I had suspicions, but did not know for sure and you never told me. I saw the picture and knew the suspicions I had were true.
That’s not lying, it’s my perspective.
Still waiting for an apology. Or am I going to be banned?
BooMan, Just a thing to consider here, without getting involved. Any number of people that had attended ykos could have been involved with putting this information into the “grapevine”. Ykos was before this, in June.
Actually, (unless you are calling me a liar too) I did at least suspect. And you know what, the more I think of it, the more I think I may have been the one. Or at least, partially.
You write:
July 19th- Catnip writes me: “I heard through the grapevine that you’re supposedly dating CabinGirl, one of Tracy’s best friends. How nice for all of you. Now I understand more of what’s been happening if that is true. Best wishes to all of you.”
I was trying to recall when you put up that little “you make me throw up” or whatever graphic it was, in response to a disagreement between catnip and Cabin Girl. That was in this thread, on July 17.
I couldn’t say I was positive, but I do remember catnip wondering (on one of the other sites) “what was that all about?” and it’s entirely possible that I (or someone) said something like, oh, he and Cabin Girl are dating, or something like that. And, of course, we all knew how good of friends you and she and Tracy were in the first place, so that factored in.
Anyway, it doesn’t matter all that much (to me), but I do think you should consider other possibilities … especially that you guys were in no way as discreet as you seem to think you were… before settling on just one explanation.
I’m not calling you a liar.
But you didn’t know we were dating. So I don’t see how you could have told catnip that we were.
Anyone can speculate.
In any case, would you agree that after catnip sent me that email that you became aware of who I was dating?
Would you argee that spiderleaf was in all those threads too?
Do you think it is even remotely possible that she could have made arrangements to meet me and CabinGirl, to have talked to at least one of us on the phone while we were together at her house, to have talked to supersoling in the context of us coming together, being together, that she could have read my reactin to catnip, that she could have gone through the entire controversy over whether or not my relationship was clouding my judgement, and then only figure out who I was dating when she saw Manny’s photograph, as she claims?
Here’s an exchange between me and supersoling that spidey participated in.
That was a central part of the controversy. Was my relationship with Tracy (which was centered on CG’s friendship with her) clouding my judgment.
Spidey just learned of this?
She admitted that it did not. She admitted that she only began to care about my relationship when she thought it was clouding my judgment.
Now she says that this only came up in the last couple of months. Tracy has only been back blogging here after a long break recently.
A link to where I participated in that thread and where it was said CabinGirl, not Tracy. The post you quoted seems to say your friendship with Tracy clouded your judgement.
And just so we are clear, yes, I was in the threads at MoBetta. Did you ‘out’ your relationship there? If so, I probably did see it, but I don’t recall you posting catnip’s private correspondence with you there either. Also, it may be hard for you to comprehend, but I have a lot more going on in my life than remembering that you and CG were dating back in July. I said repeatedly I had suspicions but no proof.
And really, your whole argument up to this point was that I was lying about telling catnip. And now it’s that I’m lying because my memory isn’t clear about when it first came on my radar? Nice one BooMan.
Keep spinning and trying to dig yourself out of this nasty hole you dug. You’ve repeatedly libeled me without proof. And now that others are saying it could have been them you are changing your tune.
Okay, I get how you operate now.
Am I banned yet?
You threw up a link to a photo and just blurted out there “this is the site owners girlfriend”. That is outing behavior right there. It was deliberate and if I were you I would start apologizing right now.
Actually, I asked you a direct question and you lied in response to me. You can try to complicate it if you want. I think you were the one that spread the idea that my judgment was clouded. That’s my belief. I have set out all the very good reasons for believing it. But that is not my central contention. My contention is that you lied.
And you lied because you didn’t want to admit that you posted a link to the photograph to restart an argument from July.
Both then and now it is your contention that I am letting my relationship with CG cloud my judgment about whether or not to ban MilitaryTracy.
Nothing has changed. That was your doing then and it is your doing now.
You’ve been clear as a bell that your initial response to me was dishonest. And that is all I’m really getting at.
So now you’re saying I put those thoughts into supersoling’s head? That was his comment you linked to about your relationship with Tracy right?
Super, is that true?
Damn Martin, you just won’t give up will you. You are wrong. You have no proof. I didn’t lie. And I certainly didn’t bring that pic up to restart anything. In fact, why don’t you read the comment of CG’s that I responded to with that picture and tell me who was restarting what.
But of course you’d have to take off your rose coloured glasses to do that.
To be clear, I brought the pic up because CG and Boo were enabling an abusive prick and throwing around baseless accusations about me, Janet, et al.
Which is what I told SN with the first comment.
Oh, and your logic is escaping you as you continue to spin. I knew FOR SURE, yet you have no proof. Nanette says SHE KNEW yet now you’re telling her she didn’t.
And at the same time saying I knew because I was in the same threads at MoBetta as Nanette was.
Huh?
Like I said. Didn’t speak with you, didn’t know. Any one can speculate as you said.
Why don’t you just admit you have a hate-on for me and you way over stepped the bounds in your attacks on me here. Apologize and we’ll move on. Simple as that.
I definitely suspected you were dating. Don’t know if I knew or not. And I have no idea what spiderleaf knew, or what threads she participated in. All of this stuff is too long ago, and I’m too far away from it. And getting older too, sigh, so “CRS” syndrome is a fairly close companion.
Anyway, I think enough has been presented to show you that it’s quite possible that spiderleaf did not tell catnip about you and CG, which is mostly what I wanted to point out before things got too out of hand.
I can’t say for sure who did what, or when (although I do remember the little bit with the throw up graphic and the puzzlement about that), or even for what reason and so have probably not brought much clarity, but reasonable doubt works.
thanks booman for your reply, I realize that you think that you have this all worked out and in order but in my long time on this earth I have found that what one thinks evolved may just not be correct. My impression was that whether or not you were dating Cabin Girl, we probably all knew that you were close friends, in fact many of you are close friends from meetups and so on, and that CG was close friends with MT. Therefore it’s not hard to make the assumption on that basis that you have protected MT, because she is your friend, with or without CG in the picture.
From my perspective and then reading what Super, Nanette and Janet just wrote, I don’t think you have proven anything.
I once thought my sister was involved in something my ex did to me, thought I had proven it to the nth degree only to find out 20 years later that no such thing occurred. I spent many years laboring under an incorrect assumption.
I don’t know anything about phone calls and who said what when, but I’ll just mention that by the time of YearlyKos last year, there were already rumors circling around about your relationship with Cabin Girl, although probably not publicly.
I know I wondered about it, from things you’d said in comments, but yearlykos sticks in my mind because you mentioned something about wanting to meet someone special there, or something like that, and I thought to myself… “oh, well maybe they aren’t involved, cuz don’t they live in the same general area?” And thought little more of it, although I later realized that my first impression was correct.
But anyway, as far as I knew, it was pretty much an open secret that most people didn’t care much about because it didn’t affect anything on the site. Until it did.
I also have no clue who told catnip what, but come to think of it, it could even have been me, in one of those “oh, but isn’t she his girlfriend?” things or something. (I don’t recall any such conversation but can’t rule it out as I don’t remember when things here started going iffyish).
Spider, you are lying. You spoke with Martin when I called super to let him know we wouldn’t be coming. First you got on the phone with me, and then you wanted to say hi to him too, so I passed the phone over. It was obvious that we were together, and supersoling made no secret of it with you. As he shouldn’t have needed to, with the assumption that you and he and Martin and I were friends.
Clearly a wrong assumption. Kindly retract your accusation that I am a liar, as I in no way responded to you when I made my comment to leezy, nor did I mention you in that comment. You just flew in like the angry vindictive woman you have shown yourself to be over the last 24 hours with all of your comments. And you complain about others’ behavior. Look in the mirror.
Bullshit CG. CookTing and super know I never spoke to Boo. I got off the phone with you and handed the phone back to super.
But keep repeating the lies CG, you do it so well.
oh, and I ain’t angry CabinGirl, in fact I’m quite amused and enjoying exposing the hypocrisy of this site.
And what’s that saying, you can tell a lot about a person by the company they keep… you still feel Tracy isn’t the problem here?
I honestly don’t remember if Spiderleaf talked to Martin or not. I only remember talking to you and Martin myself in my kitchen the day before the Blues Festival when you said that Martin and CBtY had poison Ivy.
And here’s what might be the biggest kicker of all. I can’t honestly remember anymore whether I said anything to Catnip about it or not. There you have it. I just don’t fucking remember. If I did iws a mistake, but I don’t remember now. I know I denied it because I couldn’t recall having said anything to her about it. I’m not a shit stirrer and honestly, I’ve gotten burned so many times by people on this site that I trusted it’s making me fucking ill.
Martin, please don’t ban Spiderleaf.
Spiderleaf, please give it a rest. It’s unbecoming of your intelligence and integrity.
Tracy, I wish you and your husband a long and peaceful life together.
Everyone else… you’re some of the best people I’ve ever known.
Take care
Thanks super. You’re right. I’m walking away now.
Martin, I so deserve an apology from you; that I am not letting go.
Actually it’s not true, I’m dating BooMan.
Does your wife know?
Now she does.
Denying someone’s feeling reality is considered emotional abuse, and because you guys have a hard time sticking to facts around here when it doesn’t fit the “spin” you try to put on the whole military that is also abuse. Super has done this to my daughter now and you know what Leezy? There is nothing over the top ever about telling people to FUCK OFF or informing them that they are BITCH when they come up to your child smiling that fake fucking smile that hides the abuse they want to dish out. This is my child and if any of you think you are going to come after her in any way you had better bring your own fucking army, pack an all day lunch, and still lose and I’ll even have one hand tied behind my back!
No one has done anything to your daughter. You chose to bring her into this by posting her letter, knowing full well it negatively portrayed all of us. You let her speak for you, and now you accuse any dissenters of “attacking your child”. This is a passive aggressive set up and I am not buying. If you truly despise is that much, if we are making your like so miserable, then why the hell are you still here?
Her daughter posted the letter.
Her daughter logged on when Tracy wasn’t paying attention and wrote that to her without her foreknowledge.
Any comment that contains words like “I fucking hate you, you pig. Fuck off and die!” deserves at least a warning, no matter who writes it, or why.
Mega-troll rated for clear abuse of other posters. Against the rules, even for St. Tracy.
It seems to me that Tracy has said repeatedly that it hurts her and offends her when people lump all the soldiers together in a pile called evil, because she loves her husband and he is not evil. And yet, some people are insistent on their rights to say those very things, while loudly complaining about the ways in which they feel they’ve been slighted.
I don’t know about you, but I think that when someone tells you “it hurts me when you say that” and you continue to do that for whatever reason, there is an element of intention to hurt.
Just my $0.02.
What I see are repeated attempts by one poster to control the expression of other posters opinions, because they are offensive to her. You seem to be encouraging this, in suggesting that if others do not stop expressing their different opinions, they have some intent to personally cause her harm.
I have never read anything from Super that appeared to came from any shred of intent to hurt Tracy. I’ve seen a man struggling very hard to reconcile a struggle between being true to what he believes, and his right and need to express it, and his regard FOR someone he cares about.
However,it is beginning to seem that the ONLY way to not offend this diarist, is for everyone who posts here to keep their mouth totally shut on this entire topic, unless their opinions are acceptable to her.
This is a community blog where supposedly we are all free to express our opinions, whether we agree or not. as long as it is done in a civil manner. To set a precedent where any one posters needs trump that right for others, is something I’d be sad to see happen to BooTrib.
Absolutely bang on scribe. We can’t express our opinions unless she agrees. That’s not a community, it’s Bush’s White House.
Boo and CG have made it quite clear whose opinions matter more here… and Tracy is it. It’s their community and they make the rules. Hypocrisy ‘r Us. Does Tracy still have admin privlidges? I remember the diary she posted to the frontpage and then oh, 30 mins later it was back in the diary list. In fact I think I was in super’s living room when we noticed it, but I could be wrong about the date.
In fact, Tracy is BooTrib’s Armando in my opinion.
So Thanks 😉
watch out spidey, I could zap and zing ya right outta here 😉
So not surprising, and really not something to brag about hon.
But you are a republican, so I’m sure you do take it as a compliment.
Keep up the good work.
Sup – I just think it’s bad form to take this diary obviously written by a young girl that cares about her mother’s happiness very much and do anything other than respect it and back away.
they did to that poor girl who posted here who just had her brother killed in Iraq and I’m shit full of these sort of “peace activists”. Oh yeah, I’ve had it totally.
Your love and appreciation for your mother is palpable. It’s an honor to read your words. I hope that someday, when I have children, they will care about me as much as you care about your mother.
Take good care of her, okay?
I am really disappointed that it seems like some posters have no compassion for someone that is in pain. Do you have to get the last word? Do you need to badger someone to DEATH? Can you find it in yourselves to accept that there are differences in opinion and that yours might not be the only correct one?
Are we adults? Have we no empathy or compassion?
I am really troubled by this.
She’s not the only one in pain SN. And for her to claim monopoly on that and continue to bully, harrass, and insult members of this community who have every right to express themselves in a way that eases THEIR pain is hypocrisy at best.
But please, you, CG, Boo, continue to enable this horrible and hurtful behaviour. SHE picked a fight in super’s diary and now is claiming the whole community hurts her. Pretty lame and quite transparent for all who take a real look at what went down… prior to this, during it, and now in this crazy diary.
If you can tell me what super said in the comment that justifies IN ANY WAY Tracy’s response please do so vs. throwing around strawmen like “we have no compassion”.
I’m saying that as humans, not Americans, Canadians, women, men – as humans, can we not see that something is out of control here and have some compassion. And if you’re a mother you no doubt understand that your children are sacrosanct and if anyone says anything that is even PERCEIVED to be threatening, you come out like a lion.
I’m human. I don’t know Tracy that well – but I can see she is in trouble. I’m not interested in comparing levels of pain right now.
SN, I can understand that, but I am under no obligation to stop expressing what I think in order to lessen her pain. The onus is on her not to participate if she can’t control herself. It’s counterproductive to what we are trying to accomplish and stifles the very rights American’s claim to uphold — free speech for starters.
Janet was in pain too, but it was acceptable for Tracy to shit all over her.
I don’t do hypocrisy as a general rule.
I can appreciate she is in pain, so am I, but I will not let spin or deception or behaviour that seeks to garner attention to the detriment of others to stand unchallenged. No matter who is doing it or what their situation.
There is an element of baiting that goes on when Tracy posts comments. It is done in an insidious way so that it can later be denied as being “just snark” or “just a question”. But reasonable people can infer what is going on in those posts and realize that they are meant to be bait.
Tracy, however, needs to deal with this in ways other than blowing up.
I would refer Tracy to Teach313’s excellent diary about how he taught third graders the tactic of ignoring bullies and not taking the bait.
Oh get over it. Baiting Tracy by posting our opinions? For fucks sake is this Free Republic or a progressive community? I am allowed to have whatever opinions I want and to express them. That’s not baiting, it’s a community discussion.
If you’ll take a look, Tracy had the first bait comment in super’s thread and it worked quite well for her. Look at all the sympathy she’s garnered.
Yup, BooTrib’s Armando/BTD.
No, I will not get over it.
I will, however, refer YOU to Teach313’s excellent diary about ignoring baiting. Since you fell for my bait.
You are a bully spiderleaf. And, to make it perfectly clear, I will be ignoring your further comments in this diary.
If you were baiting then you proved your own point; that I fell for it proves mine. Nice one.
Whatever Mary, I stopped respecting you a long time ago when I saw how you operate over at dkos. Really couldn’t care less that you think I’m a bully… right, by posting my words disagreeing with you and others you agree with. I’d point you to my diary on “the road to kingdom come” but obviously you can only see the perspective you want to.
Okay, I get it now. Thanks so much for enlightening me.
btw, troll rated for personal attack.
and I just don’t feel like lettin ya get the best of me spidey. Troll rate MaryB though? I’m not really too sure how out of whack someone has to be to troll rate MaryB. MaryB is very solid, very centered, very balanced.
SN, I think you know I have no end of compassion for military families, as a Gold Star family member myself. I have very vivid memories of how it felt to know my brothers life was on the line while having to listen to the whole military condemned for the actions of some, and for the war itself. I felt the anguish, the rage, all of it. And I also lashed out in his defense sometimes.
But my suffering did not give me some right to try control other peoples opinions or to deny them their right to express them in public forums or community settings.
I certainly did exercise my right to not have those people in my home and my right to avoid subjecting myself to this kind of dialog by avoiding groups and places where it was going on. I had to, because it literally drove me mad with rage, at the time.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/2/1/91624/00318
Tracy, how is taking this all over to Dkos honoring what you daughter has asked of you, which is to just let go of your involvement with all of this, because it’s hurting her and all of you?
Hi Aloha, I just ran over and read the diary…wow.
yeah, wow — what’s that all about?
The individual agents of any sector of our sanctioned society are scapegoating. They may be perfectly accurate in their complaints but their holier-than-thou attitude is a failing of both analysis and empathy.
Let me tell you, growing up I knew a number of real scumbags, the absolute pits, who had fought in Vietnam and felt it amusing to lament (in the tenor of bragging) to me, a child, about the things they’d done there. Which I for the longest time didn’t even believe although knowing them I should have.
But we have a thing called freedom of association in this country and it should apply not one iota less to people in the official service of the country. What it means is that people must be judged on their individual actions, intent, and life otherwise. They could be judged based on association with through some perspective or other, but they shouldn’t be. It isn’t in keeping with our core principles.
Welcome BooDirection. I see you are brand spanking new here.It is extremely nice of you to post on this thread. Welcome to you.
No one’s going to rate my flowers? I think they’re pretty. I guess no one agrees with what they’re saying. Which by the way is not the purpose of ratings iirc.
Aw, shucks. 🙂
Peace, everybody.
I just hope my daughter cares as much for me when she reaches your age as you care for your mom.
People often compare the current war with the Vietnam War. I don’t think that is completely accurate. People then did blame the soldiers, but only from misunderstanding. It took Daniel Ellsberg to show us that they had been misled into that war, just like this one. But by the time he did that, people had already formed their opinions, and disliked the soldiers.
I really believe, that in this war, many more people believe that the soldiers are victims, as much as the Iraqis. Granted, there are people who still live with a mindset more appropriate to the late 60’s-early70’s. Our job is to convince them otherwise.
Two good essays for you to read.
The first one was written in August of 2003, 5 months into the Iraq War. It was a speech given to the Veterans for Peace National Convention held in San Francisco, by William Rivers Pitt. Most of the speech is about the fraudulent politics that dragged our men to war, but it begins by setting the atmosphere during the Vietnam War (Pitt’s father was a Vietnam Veteran.) The mindset of the people in the airport is the mindset that is no longer appropriate today.
The second essay was published about two weeks ago at In These Times. A more modern view of things.
Read them both, if you can get through them. They will show you that your mom is not wrong.
But you deserve a lot of praise for being such a good and caring daughter.
My hope is that you will listen to the wise words of your daughter.