I don’t know the history of Marisacat and Daily Kos. She was a front-pager there at some point before I started reading it.
Update [2007-2-1 23:35:23 by BooMan]: Marisacat says she was never a front-pager. I’ll take her word for it.
And I know she got banned for some reason but I am not clear on why or even when that happened. I do know that she runs a blog that focuses heavily on what goes on on Daily Kos. To a lesser extent she also critiques the writings of MyDD, Atrios, Booman Tribune, and probably a few other blogging communities. I’ve noticed that she likes to call us all collectively the Boyz Club. There is supposedly some kind of collusion between us or something.
I want to clear a few things up. I’ve met Markos and Jerome Armstrong once. They set up a meeting for Philadelphia bloggers and Mark Warner. While everyone was in town we did a little sit down for a British film maker and talked about blogging. Other than that the only time I ever ran into Markos was at Yearly Kos and that was just a couple of brief hellos.
There seems to be a lot of confusion about how this alleged Boyz Club operates. I see Atrios about once a week when we meet up at the local Philadelphia chapter of Drinking Liberally. Sometimes we sit at the same table and talk. More often we sit at different tables and do not talk. Every once in a while Atrios links to this site. That is the extent of our collusion.
I see Chris Bowers approximately once every two months. He occassionally shows up at Drinking Liberally. More often I see him at events at the Constitution Center or something. Chris and I met with Russ Feingold at the Constitution Center last year. That is the extent of our collusion.
Philadelphia has a lot of bloggers. I guess the biggest Philadelphia affiliated sites are Eschaton, MyDD, and Booman Tribune. We all know each other and we all like each other, but we don’t interact all that much. Atrios, Chris Bowers, and I all supported Chuck Pennacchio in his primary bid against Bob Casey Jr. We all supported Joe Sestak, Patrick Murphy, and Lois Murphy in their congressional campaigns in 2006.
When it comes to politics, we all opposed the war in Iraq, oppose any war in Iran, and seem to share basically progressive positions. If we were to fit into a caucus in Washington, it would be the Progressive caucus. I think we all supported Russ Feingold for President. We don’t see everything the same way and we do not coordinate what we write at all. And if you want to compare us to Daily Kos, I would say that none of us were very impressed with Mark Warner’s positions on foreign policy and that we didn’t agree with several of the editorial stances of Markos over the years.
Maybe there is some kind of Boyz Club collusion but it is pretty much limited to knowing and respecting each other.
As for me, I have friends from Daily Kos and I have enemies. I really dislike DHinMI and MissLaura. I really like Armando and Delaware Dem, even though I find a lot of what they do deplorable. I think Meteor Blades, Kid Oakland, and Hunter are the most talented bloggers out there. I have tremendous respect for Georgia10 and SusanG’s work. I think BillinPortlandMaine is one of the cleverest most gifted people in the universe.
Most of all, I think all this meta stuff is boring. But there is one thing that should be clear. No one sends money my way, there is no coordination of message, there is no organization behind the so-called Boyz Club. And I find this whole concept that left-wing bloggers are really pushing for some kind of centrist agenda to be nothing more than a bad conspiracy theory.
Well geez, I thought all you philly bloggers met secretly near the gyro truck on the Temple Univ. campus…discussing next weeks blogging issues.
Okey dokey.
Now back to regularly scheduled programming?
what chinook said
I don’t read Mariscat’s blog, and I don’t accuse you of being on colusion with them on anything, but there really is a clique there, and they have double standards with reguards to certain posters, and lessor posters. It is also obvious that some people are allowed to troll the board. I really do believe that DD post was a troll post, and that Mariscat, in this case was unfairly smeared.
I was banned over there, yet again, but I spend so little time there, I don’t give a damn anymore.
It is such a big blog now, and so cliquey, and so infiltrated by various types of professional political propagandists, that it long ago stopped being an enjoyable blog. Even if I read it I never post. Who would see it in a blog where the recommends get over 600 posts?
Look at what you just said: “I was banned over there, yet again”. Read the FAQ. You can’t come back after being banned. You were banned because you have already been banned.
I was invited back by margorieb or whatever her name is.
You are the one who just said you have been banned four times.
I was. I was gotten rid of for recommending a bad diary and then banned for being banned, then I got invited back by Margorieb. Look get lost. Judging from your posting history, you obviously came here just to flame mariscat some more.
Most people here came here because they ran afoul of the more equal than thou crowd at kos.
Second that.
I most certainly did not come here to “flame” anyone. I have lurked here infrequently since I signed up. I came here yesterday and read several very good stories and diaries, including two about the DD / marisacat issue.
As I was reading this thoughtful and straightforward take by Booman, as well as his “Outing” story, I saw (1) hrh’s typical invective; and (2) you complaining about being banned from DKos “again”, even though you yourself admit you have been banned 4 times. So I posted. To be frank, I can’t really imagine what would possess you to keep signing up after being banned so many times.
Just so I can point out their bullshit, like I did last night.
you’ve felt the urge to post?
I seem to recall you being very insulting about BT, and saying something to me along the lines of “Go over to Booman, that’s the perfect place for you.”
Or was that a different member of the Goon Squad? Your personalities kind of run together.
I’m pretty sure yesterday was the first time I posted here.
Yep – just did an archives search.
to this site is insults and badgering?
Fuck off.
Oh, I don’t know, could it be something along the lines of a desire to express yourself within a community that values free speech?
Could it be the (clearly mistaken) idea that Dkos is such a community?
The “Little Orange Footballs” quip gets truer every day.
Democracy is messy. Fascists crave order above all.
Boo–mebbe the reason someone is impelled to create labels like “Boyz”—well the first “girl” you referred to was misslaura, who you don’t like, you say.
the next is georgia10-topnotch in my book, too–but she’s mostly disappeared from dk.
which leaves you with susanG, whose voice seems to grow quieter at dk. Top condiments pales next to Diary rescue, which seems a bit perverted to me; I think the latter series has tried to be thoughtful, the former, mostly mutual mojobation.
that’s the way I see it, and though I suspect you ain’t crazy about me, at least you have a tolerant enough blog not to have all this banning and troll-hunting phenomena. In that respect, you should not consider yourself a rung below dk, but maybe a reflection on how liberal folks can behave.
You really do have to give Booman credit for posting about Biden’s comments about Obama.
Meta in the blogosphere can roughly be summed as a division between 2 parts: the one that focuses on elections and governing in a pragmatic yet progressive fashion, while the other focuses a lot more on appealing to emotion and idealism.
That’s the main cause any sort of division. One thing that Markos has been pretty consistent about when he started dKos is that it was to build a movement. Not for anyone’s single issue or for any one person, for that matter – but as an institution to improve the Democratic Party.
I think it’s hard to argue that he’s been a failure in that respect.
Anyways, enough with this. My last point is that folks had better get used to the idea that not all bloggers are equal in the blogosphere. However, this is largely a function of the self-revealing meritocracy within it, which I don’t think is a bad thing at all.
And I’m sure you think you’re more equal than others.
What an insightful comment. You just blew my mind.
You were so above the fray that you had to respond!
I am surprised, Arminius, that you are responding like this – with what sounds like a needling comment. I’m sorry to see it.
Point taken. Sorry. I have a sore spot about being condescended to by someone 30 years my junior, but you’re right that it does no good to express the feeling.
my, what a beautiful piece of ageism we have here.
Frankly, I consider myself superior to George Bush–and he’s over 30 years my elder. Age doesn’t mean shit.
Nope, but wisdom and knowledge does. And knowing when you don’t know shit and could learn something counts even more.
But then again, you don’t get that, do you?
Nevermind, rhetorical question.
Age doesn’t mean shit.
You’re probably right, folks here are just being kind to you and your friend. The point is that many of us have contempt for anyone, male or female, young or old who holds themselves so superior and behaves so arrogantly, particularly when it’s patently obvious that there is no justification at all for the attitude.
there’s nothing in Psi’s comment that rates a troll rating. There’s no real content, but it’s hardly the stuff of trolls.
cluephone to Arminius: he is superior to you. His writings and insights are superb, and widely acknowledged as such.
That’s why he’s been invited to frontpage at multiple blogs across the internet. That’s meritocracy–and it’s a good thing.
pronounces that somebody named PsiFighter “IS superior” to me because he has been asked to frontpage.
Oh please.
I’ve been frontpaging in federal courts for 20 years. I also created an Internet company that is a lot bigger than DKos. I’ve had to turn down several invitations to be a “frontpager,” because I really am busy with client and family matters. Thump thump thump! <thumps chest>
Actually, though (let us please shift focus)–I regularly read your stuff and admire it. I can’t remember ever disagreeing with one of your diaries. I think we pretty much have the same goals, and the time is so critical for our country that Democrats should not be fighting like this. I apologize for my sharp remarks.
Let me respectfully request that we just bury this hatchet.
Oh fuck you.
NO ONE IS SUPERIOR TO ANYONE ELSE.
That is classism and bigotry of the highest degree.
Is a mother in New Orleans not just as worthy as you? Or because they don’t have a computer and don’t get to FP worthy of being denegrated? (don’t answer, all the bullshit “you should spell right you fuck” comments over there attest to what is valued) My fucking god. Get a hold of yourself and really GET OVER YOURSELF.
And you claim to be a progressive, or even a Democrat.
For shame. How utterly disgusting.
A little power, a little notoriety & folks begin to get a big head.
What? You thought it only happened to TV actors & rock-stars?
that many people think Kos is an intellectual lightweight and a Republican in Dem’s clothing, his cohorts are sycophant bullies, and they’re all a pack of liars – whether they’re paid to lie or not doesn’t matter in the long run.
There’s much better writing and thinking going on in other quarters of the blogosphere. The popularity of DKos is due to “self-revealing meritocracy” to roughly the same degree that Bush’s presidency is. A lot of people have bad taste. Sad but true.
Just about everyone is an intellectual lightweight in the blogosphere. There are probably only a few bloggers I’d say who are true intellectuals – Digby and Glen Greenwald, to name a couple.
Republican in Democrat’s clothing? Yeah, he used to be a Republican, but so did a lot of people. I think people are allowed to change their minds over time…
As for being sycophantic bullies – get off of it. Only a couple of people I’d single out for being ‘bullies’, and to say people are sycophants is pushing it. In fact, I’d like to see these alleged examples of sycophantry in the true sense of the word.
And being a pack of liars, much less paid? Wow. Only Markos gets paid for blogging at dKos. Alleging that others do is pure paranoia.
I hope I can be aspire to being an intellectual sometime in the future.
I didn’t mean any offense to you, Booman. You’re probably one of the most well-versed bloggers I’ve read, and having met you in person and spoken with you numerous times, it’s quite evident that you know your stuff.
The main point of my argument was that calling Markos an ‘intellectual lightweight’ – that could mean that he’s plain-out stupid, or he’s not someone who possesses the hefty knowledge that others have.
I think you should just focus on walking erect for the time being. 🙂
Seriously though, this is one of the best blogs out there from an intellectual and community building sense. Lots of diverse viewpoints, good writers, excellent opinions, and well-researched diaries.
Thanks for all the time you put in to keep this site going.
Just about everyone is an intellectual lightweight in the blogosphere.
I’m never going to ask you if I look fat in these pants either.
As I noted above with Booman, if the ‘intellectual lightweight’ refers to someone who has an incredible depth and breadth of knowledge about political issues and historical issues related to politics, I’d venture to say that a great many of us, myself included, would fit into that category.
Just because you got yourself banned from Daily Kos doesn’t mean I haven’t been paying attention. I saw some of the stuff you posted there, and you got what you deserved. Deal with it.
Have fun!
Do we really need to have [wonderful string of insults omitted for the sake of civility] INDIVIDUALS like this from DKos coming over here to harass people who were banned from DKos?
BooMan, that comment above from PsiFighter qualifies as prickish, don’t you think?
I don’t know what you are talking about.
In the last couple months Markos named three “Fellows.” These people are or will be paid to write full time for DailyKos.
I believe mcjoan was one of the three, not sure of the other two. Perhaps Hunter?
I think Markos wrote about this new program the same time he announced the new front pagers.
The meritocracy about which you write, however, is quite arbitrary. And this, I believe, is a hindrance to the elevation of certain candidates and certain writers. While I am not as engaged as others in the blogosphere, as I understand it for what it is, I do believe some have the right to demand introspection and empathy from those who for whatever reason believe they can humiliate and excoriate some writers for having different and at times more informed opinions. One example is the squabble between Jim in Chicago and Markos regarding Cegelis.
“Self-revealing meritocracy?” If by “merit” you mean ability to pander and demagogue, you may have a point. Otherwise, you’re deluding yourself. Trying “getting used to that idea.”
A small army of covert NSA operatives concurs.
Oh. my. god. Have you corrected your other post yet where you claimed she outed Del Dem when if anything, CabinGirl did, if not Del Dem himself?
What’s the point here? That you aren’t on the take?
In terms of meta… get used to it, it’s part of human existence and experience and a key to community building.
Honestly, truly, what is up in your life that you just want blood and nothing less than blood with suffice? I’m fragile about war stuff, I’m incredibly fragile about my husband being labeled a war criminal. What do you need. What’s going on that has you this totally angry.
So you have no problem with the record being incorrect and people being potentially libeled? I’m SHOCKED Tracy, just shocked.
LOL. What a character you are.
That was entirely about you.
Similar to the too cute question of “which blog is your favorite?”, the idea of a Boyz Club falls on its face by not recognizing that the very essence of blogs and those that visit is their independent thought. Themes run concurrently sure, but the nuances of the arguments and analysis are the crown jewels that separate the writings. Mariscat perhaps suffers from an upbringing where intellectual curiosity was lacking thus the need to schoolyard label that which she cannot be a part of. In case I haven’t said it lately, Boo, you’re great!
don’t even bother giving her attention, Boo. She’s a waste of time. If DD had just ignored his “outing” by her, he’d have been fine, I think.
She’s a gadfly and a pest with a huge chip on her shoulder. Nothing more.
again I wonder, if she is so unimportant, why are you losers even aware of what she posts? She was shunned by the Donk party orange ATM, is a “cunt” and a “bitch” and “lacking in human decency” and all of the rest of the epithets you pathetic hangers-on to a corrupt and ineffective political party spew … so why do so many of you lurk and lash out when she points out that you are all shameless toadies?
Seriously, why the fuck do you and your hack drinking buddies care about some “women’s studies” befuddled “bitch” who’s writing stuff that is over your little pinheads anyway?
Get over the pie fights already. Don’t go projecting Markos’ ill-chosen words onto others.
DKos has gone so far downhill since the Pie Wars that it’s not even funny. But you like it. Some people enjoy the frathouse atmosphere.
Frathouse atmosphere? If that’s what you want to call serious activism, go right ahead. But you’re the one demeaning a lot of good work that goes on there.
taking place there, it happens in spite of the childish gameplaying, ego inflation, and thuggish bullying that goes on there 24/7 – of which this latest DD fiasco is a remarkably unpleasant example.
I used to really like the place. It was ruined by a small group of people who are, unfortunately, fully supported by Markos.
Yes. You are right.
You are engaged in the “serious activism” of selling Markos’ books and being an ATM for anti-progressive candidates.
And you are doing quite well for it. Points scored indeed!
Right…donating $10.01 when I could to candidates like Victoria Wulsin, Patrick Murphy, and Ned Lamont was just about being an endless ATM for anti-progressive candidates. And so was my volunteer work for Lamont during the primary and Patrick Murphy in the general.
Get a grip.
Would you have volunteered without dkos?
If not, why not? It’s a serious question.
Yeah, I would have. I did back in 2004 for John Kerry and Joe Hoeffel in Pennsylvania. The only blog I read back then on a consistent basis was The Left Coaster.
Insinuating that I’m only into politics because of the blogosphere is insulting.
I didn’t. You did when you defended dkos as not an ATM but the place that got you into volunteering and did SO MUCH for progressives outside of cash donations. I merely asked you to clarify.
And you did. Which proved my point, thanks.
The only campaigns last cycle in which supporters engaged in “serious activism” were the Cegelis and Shea-Porter campaigns. Both campaigns decided to confront the establishment and wage bitter fights until the very end. Shea-Porter prevailed, even if some at DailyKos doubted her and belittled her. Cegelis, unfortunately, did not, but she is still fighting the real fight, as she is organizing in Chicago for a whole set of issues confronting that city. Those campaigns were marked by “serious activism,” not those campaigns that received support from the DCCC and the establishment netroots, for they were up against the masculinist and controlling narratives propogated by dominant discourse undergirding establishment blogs. And notice how Cegelis supporters and Shea-Porter supporters have not been elevated to some vaunted status on any of the establishment blogs. Only those who worked for establishment campaigns have gained credibility on the establishment blogs. And this, I beleive, is significant, for the Cegelis supporters and the Shea-Porter supporters engaged in their activism for selfless reasons. Volunteers for other campaigns, especially those who had to diary about their experience knocking on doors every weekend, clearly had other intentions. They just wanted attention, while Cegelis and Shea-Porter supporters genuinely wanted to win an election. That is the difference between “serious action” and mere careerism.
I’m in Shea-Porter’s district and I saw how things developed for her near the end of the campaign – all conspicuously overlooked by the powers-that-be at DKos. Either they had no idea, or they didn’t care – they were focusing on Hodes. That was part of what put the kibosh on the whole notion of DKos driving “netroots”/”people-powered politics”, for me.
frathouse…lol.
I come home wiped out from drafting a 30-page “brief” in one evening–and I can’t believe I’ve spent the time to read all this crap on DKos, here, and on Marisacat’s blog.
My score: Marisacat 10, Delaware Dem 0.
It is disgusting to see all the silly little sycophants at DKos 4-whoring with incredibly nasty comments about Marisacat, when they don’t know her, haven’t read her blog, and basically don’t know their asses from a hole in the ground.
Delaware Dem outed himself. Explicitly. Openly. Arrogantly. Repeatedly. I’ve weighed everything on both sides, and I don’t think Marisacat did anything wrong at all.
I know marisacat well enough from her writings. She has said some very vile things about me, my brother and my girlfriend–not to mention several kossacks whom I am proud to call me friends.
She can go to hell, quite frankly. I have no more respect for her than I do for Freepers–same basic lack of intelligence and human decency.
Perhaps it had something to do with your “consulting” gig while trying to get us “netroots” to toe the line.
Just a thought.
you know, that consulting “gig” didn’t go far–not that I’m not trying through other means.
I have to ask, though, if you have any idea what it would actually mean to Crash the Gate.
You don’t respect Democrats; you don’t respect candidates who can raise any money; you don’t respect the political process itself; you don’t respect consultants at all. You expect, apparently, to yell bloody murder in the wilderness of the Internet and to have politicians in Washington listen to you.
But know this: consultants will still find work with campaigns. They can either be good ones who have progressive interests in mind, or they can be like Bob Shrum.
Disparage the entire profession at your own risk.
Why would I? I’m Canadian and have much higher standards for liberals or progressives. Sorry to rain on your parade. So no, your bullshit doesn’t fly.
And yes, I know what it means to “crash the gates”. In the literal terms it means to take over as gatekeepers from the powers that be. Which is what you are so pitifully trying to do and keep getting played.
Having fun yet? Still full of yourself with your “brilliant tactics”?
Heh. Try again.
well, that’s nice. And your plan for changing the world and helping clean up this mess is…?
Glad to see you’re so pure and above the fray and all–must be nice sitting in that ivory tower sniffing those clouds.
Oh, I participate, just not with fools, which you have proven yourself to be time and again. I don’t have to tell you my plan, we are living it up here in Canada. And our conservative PM will be gone before year end.
Nor do I feel comfortable sharing anything with you as you are consultant for the DLC (or Democrats, same difference at this point, just semantics) and could potentially make a profit off of my ideas, or those of others. Not as if it isn’t happening everyday on dkos. Sorry to be blunt, but I understand business more than you apparently do.
lol yeah, the Democrats and the DLC are no different. No difference between Harold Ford and Russ Feingold.
Waste of my time, this is…
So why did you come over here to pontificate?
It’s your bed. Lie in it.
Did you consult for Feingold? Who were your clients?
Well, this isn’t Canada, or Western Europe, or any other place where liberalism and progressivism is much more around where we’d like it to be. It’s America, and it’s going to take some work to move it leftward.
Then you should do yourself a favour and stop hanging around people who aren’t liberal or progressive if you actually care about western european, or canadian values.
It’s really not that hard to see. Dkos would be a rightwing site in Canada, or anywhere in Europe.
tell that to Jerome a Paris and LondonYank. Take your self-righteousness somewhere else.
Was I talking to you? I was responding directly to what Psi wrote. Or is that past your comprehension level?
Jerome a Paris? Please. A Banker? Is that your definition of the “continent”? Let them eat cake indeed.
And in case the user ID was too much for you to handle, LondonYank is an AMERICAN.
My buddha, it’s like remedial school here.
and never will.
because delaware dem said in a recommended diary today that she outed him. miss much?
he’s a repeated liar and thug. Like all bullies, he hates people who stand up to him.
She didn’t out him. He outed himself some time ago. She posted a picture, with NO name attached to it, and he flipped out.
really, I have to ask, why do you care what she thinks and writes?
i don’t. I respect Delaware Dem–and I despise anyone who outs anyone else on the blogosphere due to a churlish personal vendetta.
Then you must HATE DHinMI no?
actually, I don’t like DHinMI at all. No I don’t.
Excellent. Then we are agreed.
So I assume you are on dkos vigorously calling for his banning for outing someone with less than the same criteria as Mcat supposedly ‘outed’ DD?
If not, why not? Why hang your hat on this one? What’s the difference? And why? Details please before you pontificate any more.
and of course… crickets chirping.
Just because it may seem like you got the last word in doesn’t mean anyone’s conceding the point. Some of us may get tired of arguing something that is ultimately pointless.
Oh don’t worry, I get it. You run out of the tired cliched arguments and go home. Standard MO from the Kos Krew.
I just felt the need to point it out for posterity.
No, it’s more that I do have pressing matters that will affect me far more directly than continuing this argument right now. But hey, call it what you want.
Have a good night.
Well, you chose to particpate with an ill-formed view and started pontificating on what was and was not acceptable and how you participated. If you decide not to defend that when called out on it, hey, it’s your life and I certainly wouldn’t ask you to spend MORE time online.
But please don’t ever speak about the internet as “building community” if you can’t argue your points without throwing in the towel when push comes to shove. If you can’t handle lil’ ol’ Canuck, how on earth do you expect to handle Karl Rove or Russia? But I’m sure that’s a discussion for another time after you’ve checked in with the troops, eh?
Have fun. I’ll be heading off to bed soon myself.
HE OUTED HIMSELF. REPEATEDLY. IN HIS SIG LINE.
No more talk of “outing”. It’s a big bullshit lie. Even worse than Armando’s big bullshit lie about being outed.
lol, have it your way. Armando and DD were both outed.
Personally, I don’t think anyone should post without realizing their anonymity may be forfeit. But those who go out of their way to remove the anonymity of others are worse than trolls.
you’re as much a liar as they are.
The only way someone can truly be “outed” is if they were anonymous to begin with. Putting the URL of your personal blog – which contains your full name and other personal info – in your sig line is not, by any stretch of the imagination, anonymity.
Armando’s situation was a little different, because someone would have had to google and put two and two together to find out who he was; but his full name and job and his client list were out on the web, and he used his real first name as his user ID.
Even he admitted he hadn’t taken his privacy very seriously.
In both cases, the sturm und drang was a drama-queen’s fraud designed to suck energy and get attention.
I have zero respect for either of those bullying schmucks.
If you have a career in which posting political thought could pose a problem, don’t blog on a political site 24 hours a day.
but I’m beginning to think that it’s the relentless bullying and insulting that they’re embarrassed to be associated with, not the political views.
They are like thugs beating people up in back alleys – they can get away with murder as long as nobody can put a face to the name and somehow associate it with their work or their home life.
I know I’d never hire a lawyer who behaved as irrationally and abusively as Armando or Del Dem.
Best freakin’ comment in the thread. It’s so simple and so utterly true.
Just for the record, I don’t approved of outing bloggers. But Armando outed himself, by appearing at a public forum, that had a web page, where he was identified by full name and professional affiliation as a front-pager (or guest blogger or whatever) at D-Kos.
Madman I disagree with about 85% of what you write and sometimes I just want to bang my head on my desk after reading some of your exchanges.
But, I love your stuff and I love the way you point out the blindingly glaringly obvious and call it like it is.
I think you’re a great diarist and one of the most important voices out there. I’m so glad Booman allows you free reign here.
Keep doing what you’re doing.
thanks … I just want the debate opened up. It’s all I ever wanted. Thanks for the support.
on full equality between men and women?
men and women are fully equal in everything but, usually, bodily strength. As if that had anything to do with anything.
Marisacat isn’t a feminist, nor is she that bright–no one who thinks the liberal blogosphere is an old boys’ club is a fool. She’s just an attention-whore curmudgeon with a giant chip on her shoulder.
Yeah? What was Colleen talking about, then?
Why, I agree with you there! But I don’t think that was what you meant to say 🙂
honestly, i’ll bet you don’t even know the gender of a third of the major bloggers out there. But that’s the wonderful thing about the blogosphere–it’s gender neutral.
Most people think Ann Arbor Blue is a girl. Most people think that Digby–my favorite blogger, btw–is a guy; she’s not. Most people think LondonYank is a guy; she’s not.
There is an argument to be made about race in the blogosphere, which is 98% white. But gender? You’d have to be a real single-issue paranoiac to see gender discrimination in the blogosphere. It’s ridiculous.
Really? You should check out the actual stats on dkos. White. Male. Haven.
Sure, you have a few females, but so much lower than the internet average. But surely a top-notch consultant/ player as yourself would already have those stats, no?
uh huh…the internet average? Try the internet average for political discussion groups, you’ll find it’s no different.
And as for YearlyKos? No more than 60% male at most. But again, I’m wasting my time here.
Oh dear. I’m talking about standard internet metrics that brands use to determine value of a site and the demographic breakdown. YearlyKos is such a niche it’s another item in the budget if the budget stretches that far. Outside of political candidates of course… or are those your only “true” advertisers?
It’s not that hard. Surely you’ve been in the internet space for long enough to know of which tools I speak?
Seems to me that you just removed, in part, the anonimity of the bloggers you named for no other reason than to illustrate that you knew more than others. Does this make you “worse than a troll”? Or are you just somewhat stupid?
Don’t answer – just think.
Delaware Dem had no reasonable expectation of privacy – his own actions “outed” him. To claim otherwise is to deny the facts.
I’m late to this party, and will not comment beyond this, but your statement is highly and disgustingly offensive.
To the extent that I have a passing familiarity with your writings, I thought higher of you than that.
What an arch and obnoxious comment. I’ve always preferred Marisacat’s analysis to that of Mr. Magritte here.
glad to hear it. Coming from you, i’d be appalled to find it the other way around.
A:
Marisacat was never an MP at Dkos. Knowing Marisa she would never have sought it and would have refused it if offered, it’s just not her bag. If she happens to read this and disagrees I will gladly update.
She was easily one of the best minds at Dkos when i got there, iirc my ID was in the 700’s so i was there very early on and just got better with time. Even Armando (who arrived later) and in the late stages of my time there declared in an online argument that “she is a genius but she is the anti-me”. Well folks, that should tell you everything you need to know.
B:
Her blog is not even remotely close to being a blog that ‘focuses heavily on what goes on at Daily Kos’. She couldn’t be as she isn’t a constant reader of Dkos anymore but if she hears something she sometimes comments. That shows that you do not read her often or you are listening to inaccurate gossip about her. Either way you are dead wrong. My gut tells me that when you hear about her it’s because someone whispers to you when she does make a comment so that’s why you make that mistaken assumption.
Marisa was easy to spot as one of the savviest political minds on that blog. She has an amazing facility for politics and many many men are threatened by that. Secondly she does not suffer fools gladly and I respect that enormously even when i’m one of the fools she doesn’t suffer well. I have learned a great deal from many bloggers but none more than her. That said we do disagree, I’m no acolyte but I respect her opinion enormously regardless. She has much in common with Molly Ivins in her ability to hit the bullseye with very few words. I wish they were both still here but I’m glad her voice is still out there, calling it as she sees it. She’s a friggin’ treasure in a sea of political bullshit.
She was always interesting to read.
DK a lot less interesting now that the din drowns out so many of those that don’t march to the drumbeat of the DelawareDem sort.
what’d i miss?
this is a pretty heated conversation, and the ahem, tone, reflects that, but there are a lot of comments in here that don’t even come close to a troll standard that have been rated down. The ratings tell a clear tale of support for one side of the argument and not the other, and that’s not what ratings are for.
I started to uprate, but frankly I don’t want to get sucked in & have it said I’m doing the same thing.
I do hope that those handing it 0s and 1s will reconsider.
Disclaimer: I have no real knowledge or views on the topic at hand
Wow, you turn away from the computer for a few hours and miss an absolute meltdown of the blogosphere….
That being said, for me this brings up a lot of questions about one’s expectations of privacy in the online world. My user name is my last name, I imagine it would take about 30 seconds of google searching to “out me.” For the more prominent folks who post a lot and appear at political events where pictures are taken and interviews are done, your privacy is gone.
Given the controversy this has created, I wouldn’t be surprised to see freepers doing some digging and “outing” other prominant personalities on DKos and other sites.
On a personal level, I found Delaware Dem to be routinely obnoxious and abrasive to people and I imagine there is a long line of people with grudges towards him. If you are that concerned about protecting your identity, painting a giant bullseye on yourself isn’t smart.
MSOC at My Left Wing has discussed the boys club, and I do see some validity in her argument. Politics is, after all, a sexist world, and women have yet to attain equality with their male counterparts. I also believe their is a mode of very masculinist writing that is valorized in the political field. Take Adam B, for example. Similar to Delaware Dem, he is always apodictic in his pronouncements, and he is never tolerant of dissent or debate. Instead of engaging in actual argumentation, he resorts to ad hominens or crows about his JD or “insider” knowledge. And I must say I am pleasently surprised to discover that he and Delaware Dem are just a bunch of overweight blowhards. But more to the point, he and others did everything within their power to invalidate Cegelis supporters last March, and their message was coordinated. Whether or not this was something they planned is not the point; the fact that they bullied a group of people and literally forced them out of the mainstream blogosphere is. And their dogmatic stances have also alienated many people. Perhaps when people are referring to the “boyz club,” they are not so much referring to Bowers and Kos but to the second-tier bloggers who compete for others’ intentions by engaging in vacuous posturing in comments threads.
I think your comments are great, and I’ve been giving you uniform 4’s in these threads, especially because I share your loathing of Bobby Jindal.
However, let me please observe that I’m uncomfortable with you calling Delaware Dem and Adam B. “overweight blowhards.” Blowhards I agree with, but the fat part is hard to take. Due to a combination of medical and psychological problems (especially quitting smoking and suffering a botched surgery) at the moment I’m almost the same size as Delaware Dem, although most of my adult life I’ve been about normal weight. And I’m still quite strong and active. I would hate to have my thoughts and morals prejudged by my appearance. I’m sure you know better!
I say it, as I know it is a threat to their masculinity and their imagined sense of superiority. And it gives me pleasure to see these big boys all bent out of shape because some girl twisted their underwear in a big not and lodged it up their big, ugly, fat asses.
You just turned an ally into an enemy. Your response is ridiculously insensitive to what I said. What a jerk you are.
I did not mean to insult you. As I stated above, I know my comments would offend them. Their weight only becomes an issue when they behave as if they are immune to criticism. They obviously are not, and I have no qualms ridiculing their appearance, especially as they have not had to endure what you have experienced. And yes, I empathize with your condition. Please do not take offense.
OK, peace. However, in the long run, it’s best to avoid attacks based on physical characteristics.
I was with you until called DD fat and then especially your follow up comment, it was a petty ad homonym. I have disagreed with DD plenty in the past, both online and in person. He certainly writes in a masculine form and promotes confrontation rather than discussion, but his view and methods are as valid in our discussion as yours or mine.
Part of the advantage of the blogosphere is that you don’t have to be a pretty/ handsome face to be heard, you just have to earn an audience. For whatever reason DD did that, he also earned enemies.
The discussion of how we can create a conversation that contains less of our societies inherent sexism is valuable, don’t ruin what you have to say by including vitriol, that we should also be working to keep to a minimum.
I don’t think there is misogyny, so much as women generally do not fit into their worldview. I think many women, particularly single women, are essentially invisible to them.
I don’t sense much malice in it (except when the four-letter pejoratives get thrown around by people with no self-control).
The question for me about women (and minorities) in the blogosphere is not so much “where are they” because they are there… but why they are not revealing themselves as such.
I know there are female bloggers and black bloggers and Hispanic bloggers who are reading this right now and have never identified themselves as such, probably because they know they will not be taken as seriously as they were before. There are female bloggers writing under androgynous or even male names, for example.
Frankly I say, more power to ’em. In a world where they’re aggressively ignored anyway, they could do worse than to embrace their invisibility on the Net and use it to do real political work that matters, instead of being a BMOK (Big Man on Kos).
There was no coordination. No one was forced out of anywhere. I’m only a little overweight. And I’ve very tolerant of dissent and argument; what I’m not tolerant of is argument that’s not based on fact, and dismissing people by calling them “overweight blowhards” (and by not linking to examples of the alleged apodicticism you detest) seems to be exactly the kind of nonsense you’re otherwise decrying.
sorry, adam, but i am not a lawyer, and i do not aspire to be a lawyer. i also do not believe i have to cite everything on which i comment in order to be viewed as valid. this is such a waste of my time. and the photograph, which is a peice of evidence, does attest to your weight problem.
you two seem to have been enjoying a rigorous debate. That’s good. But, per the new rules, referring to a photo to disparage someone’s appearance is getting into the personal. Please refrain from making insults of this type and keep to arguing the merits of your argument. Thank you. And I haven’t read the whole exchange between you, so if Adam has been getting personal, please stop.
It’s only personal to me to the extent that some person I’ve never met on a blog I hadn’t been visiting started calling me out, but I think my arguments have refrained from themselves being personal.
is boring, why promote it?
who wants to talk about kinky sex?
im building a dungeon in my new apartment…its all painted pink and green and there are monkeys everywhere.
to me this seems like the perfect environment where women can do scary things to men.
i can think of a few men on these blogs who could use a good spanking.
and a few women too, but i dont do women…they are too complicated.
Put me on teh lits!
I don’t even have to look up in the sky to know it’s a full moon.
This is…
JUST LIKE DKOS!!!
I FEEL SO AT HOME!!!
Drop it.
We’re about to blow up Iran.
Have y’all nothing else to think about?
Really.
AG
I don’t think the administration will get away with it this time!
On Lou Dobbs last night, he had an interview with Iran experts Ervand Abrahamian and Fawaz Gerges as well as General David Grange. Read the Transcript in the appropriate area toward the end!
Anyway General Grange sounded like he just wanted to mutter the Administration’s line that Iran is responsible for most American troop deaths. However, the Iranian experts both used logic to make his view seem a total hoax. They both said that sunni arabs were killing almost all the Americans, and the sunni arabs were also killing many shites in sectarian violence. They said Iran would possibly be supporting shite militias, but that thinking that Iran would be supporting their sunnis enemy was absurd. They said it was absurd as thinking that Bush planned 9-11.
Lou Dobbs made a good point that since the intelligence before the Iraq war was either twisted or just wrong, the American people will set the bar much higher for this Iran saga to lead to war. I think he is correct, and I also think the logic behind the Administration claims has holes in it big enough to let the tide run through! So it does not really matter what the Neocon’s wish list is because the real logic for all to plainly see is working against them. I believe with MSM forces like Dobbs on the warpath against the Administration, the stupidity of the American electorate cannot be taken for granted anymore.
There is a big difference between Booman’s site and MYDD and KOS. The latter two sites have pretty much stiffled any new original thought outside of the group think mentality developed because of selective banning and troll rating abuses. That is not going on here! There is a tendency for people to preach similar views here, but I have seen no banning or abusive troll rating. Good for you Booman!
I agree with Madman that Kos has allowed his site to degenerate intellectually by letting these group think, originality stiffling practices run amuck!
How do you not get banned over at Baron Moulitsas’s petty fiefdom? I am proud to say that I was expelled last summer for posting (link is to BT edition). The posting violated no rule that I’m aware of, and the banning occurred over a week after the posting, without either warning or notification of any kind. I had to e-mail a front pager to find out why the interactive features didn’t work — I thought it was just a login issue! Not that I particularly minded being liberated from a tremendous time sink with few redeeming qualities left. I just mention this to underline that anyone who compares how Martin is running this blog to how Moulitsas runs his, is being quite unfair to the former.
Sorry, I had HTML formatting turned off. Here goes:
A new symbol of America.
No shit? You were the best diarists that never made it to the recommends!
People really should read you work on the Congo. Part I and Part II. If that doesn’t show how stupid and venal the place has become.
You ought to repost it here at booman!
Heh… thanks a lot, although actually I did have 3 (I think) recommended diaries in my time there.
I’m amazed that you remember the Congo thingies from ages ago. They were in fact crossposted here, but sadly the announced parts III-IV were never completed, so it’s a bit like Schubert’s Unfinished… 😉
Robbing the Congo I: a deal with the Devil
Robbing the Congo II: unspeakable richness.
Did anybody ever give you a reason for your banning? You were always one of my favorites there.
Thanks digdug — no, I didn’t get any more of an explanation there than you get at Freak Republic when they kick you out.
It’s, like, a pattern.
to firedoglake for two weeks watching the trial through their eyes. I’ve loved every minute of it! I have loved the descriptions of the witnesses and what the lawyers were wearing and their demeanor. I have loved the sidebars (and I NEVER loved the sidebars in the OJ case). I guess I am just an addict of a weird sort.
I love C&J and the mix of music and mayhem. I love Boo and the eclectic bunch that reside here (loving people almost all of you!)
All blogs seems to have their own flavor and character. Sometimes I get very interested and sometimes I just skim through some of them and go on. (I think my interest is not just the blog, but me and whatever mood I am in.) I have never ever thought that I had the right to go on a blog and just meanly critic the owner or the offering because, hey, they are the ones who put the sweat and grit and blood into it so I COULD enjoy it.
I have been concerned about all those disillusioned repubs and the value they bring to a blog. (It is my belief you can take the repub label off but a conservative is STILL a conservative!) But they are ubiquitous and we have to deal with them everywhere anyway.
But I was curious – what happened to Deleware Dem’s diary that got on the rec list?
I have never ever thought that I had the right to go on a blog and just meanly critic the owner or the offering because, hey, they are the ones who put the sweat and grit and blood into it so I COULD enjoy it.
Then there should be NO commnent function for such blogs if no disagreement is to be tolerated!
is not the same thing! For one thing, I can appreciate what Booman or Dkos have done, but I don’t have the same viewpoint, I don’t have the same filters. So, I believe that disagreement does us both a favor by stretching both in both. But I can sympathise with Boo and Dkos because it can be a real pain to have 86000 people doing that to you! And I can say thank you to both for giving me that opportunity. But I am disagreeing with them on the issues not on how they run (or don’t run) what is essentially theirs. I hate threads that get hijacked by diary bigots. It kills my enjoyment of the diary itself. And, I’ve tried so I know, you cannot argue with them about it cause they know everything. And I have wondered – why not ban them? And I have troll rated them on occasion (when I could) and then felt guilty about it. But I felt their inability to really hear what somebody else said made them trollish. But then I became the diary police. Oh drat! So I gave up on that tactic.
Yes, policing other people’s thoughts and actions is a hard road to follow, and that is why you should not try. Banning and insulting (troll rating) is nothing more than attempts at censorship which always leads to propaganda dissemination by definition, IMO.
I would favor either allowing comments with 3 ratings potential (something like this):
Wonderful
Favorable
Unfavorable
I would also not ban anyone for legitimate thoughts, but would turn off the comment option before that. I suppose there is a place for stopping total spamming disruption, but the rules to do that must be very strict. Do not expect the internet to stay open if propaganda, brainwashing techniques become the normally tolerated.
That I am never so wrong as when I try to shove my rightness down someone else’s throat.
Peace,
Andrew