In many respects, the whole issue about what Kos said has turned into a personal issue for both his detractors and his defenders. But it is more than simply about Kos, or the power and influence of his blog.
Many people who are defending Kos dislike the term misogynist, as if using that term somehow crosses some irreversible and irredeemable line. Well, I said his comments about Kathy Sierra were misogynistic and callous. And in my view they were. Crucify me for that if you like. But regardless of what label you apply to his remarks, they were certainly disrespectful, uninformed and a gratuitous slap in the face of many women who live with threats of this nature everyday. All I’ve ever asked is that Kos issue an apology. It shouldn’t be such a big deal. But I guess it is, not because of what he said, but apparently because of who his is.
(cont.)
However, those of you who defend Kos and his comments about Ms. Sierra, ask yourself this question, please. If some right wing blogger like Instapundit or Malkin or whomever you like had made these same remarks, calling into question the legitimacy of Kathy Sierra’s fears and the existence of the well documented threats she received, would you feel differently, or would you defend them for what they said? I sure wouldn’t, and I doubt you would either. Everyone in the liberal blogosphere would be all over the offending righty blogger for making such distasteful and demeaning comments about Kathy Sierra’s situation.
Kos is an important figure, its true, but that shouldn’t give him a pass to say something incredibly stupid which offended many women, women who make up the majority of the Democratic Party I might add. It seems to me we shouldn’t be spitting in the faces of those who are a some of the Democratic Party’s most ardent and loyal adherents. By saying what he did, Kos was making a political statement about the legitimacy of their concerns, whether he intended to or not. And if a Democratic politician had uttered something so insensitive, many in the Democratic party would be all over him or her for saying so. Certainly if Barack Obama or Hillary Clinton or John Edwards or Wes Clark or Joe Biden or Joe Lieberman said these things they would be figuratively tarred and feathered by a great number of liberals, progressives and Democrats.
You want to advance the progressive movement? Then stand up for progressive ideas. Kos is uniquely placed to advance women’s issues. This was a step back on his part. If he wants Democrats to win elections, maybe he should respect women’s concerns about their physical safety in a world filled with sexist, misogynist creeps (not all of them Republicans or conservatives) who seek to “keep them in their place” through threats and intimidation. By dismissing those concerns, Kos enables the very people who oppose progressive ideals.
No one wants online censorship of speech, but frankly I don’t see that as happening because of the brouhaha over the attacks on Kathy Sierra. Of greater concern should be how we treat such offensive speech. We can either condemn it for the terroristic hatred that it represents, or we can make light of it. Kos chose to do the latter in order to advance a political agenda regarding an issue that, while important, shouldn’t require sacrificing women’s concerns about sexualized hate speech in order to advance that agenda.
That is the essence of what this controversy is about. And that is why Markos should issue a real apology. It’s not just the right thing to do, Markos, it’s good politics, too.
I promise, this is my last word on this. Anything else i could say would merely be repeating myself. Thanks to this community for putting up with me.
Everything so far has been thoughtful and interesting.
Well one emailer has called me a concern troll, a racist, the leader of a jihad against Kos, a nutcase, an extremist, and someone who has unfairly played the “victim card.” Also that emailer said I owe Kos an apology for suggesting Kos’s remarks were misogynistic (actually for calling Kos a misogynist which I have not done).
So Kos’ defenders take a slightly different view of my efforts.
I would take that as a compliment as this has certainly raised awareness, and if it causes one person to think then it is worthwhile.
I for one am grateful for the leadership you and Wampum have taken on this.
I don’t recall ever really criticizing Kos in the past. I was away from the internets for the period during the pie fight wars. I likely would have criticized him for that.
Typically, I just didn’t comment when he said something stupid like voting no on all California propositions as a matter of principle.
Likely, my attitude is in part because of the people like Oliphant, Fineman, Gregory defending Imus at the same time that Markos said something incredibly insensitive.
What gives anyways? We criticize our candidates alot. Markos said we all need tougher skins, so why the rush to protect his feelings anyways?
Good question. I think a lot of people have emotional ties to Kos that inhibit rational discussion of any criticism leveled at him. Which isn’t to say that many of Kos’ detractors have the same emotional response to the man in the opposite direction. I guess the best way to put it is that Kos is a polarizing figure, not a uniter, at this point.
Amen to everything you said here except that this will be the last post on the subject.Keep it up
There comes a time when a person gets all talked out on a subject. I think I’ve reached that point.
However, when I’m done with my series on racism maybe I’ll try to take a more in depth look at issues related to women, and in particular violence against women, online and off. I am just as guilty as any other male blogger in neglecting that subject, and other issues that concern women. I’ve posted a few diaries on the abortion issue, but it hasn’t been a major concern of mine, either. But it should be.
I will also look for more diaries posted on those subjects to promote to the front page here. I’m incredibly fortunate and blessed to have been given this position at Booman Tribune, and I need to do a better job of exploring issues that are outside my areas of personal experience and knowledge, or promoting those who do write about them.
I heard that Mexico has or is about to allow abortions, and the central issue is that it is a woman’s choice.
I have a suggestion about what, to me, would be a helpful discussion. I wonder about the human development of empathy – the ability to see something from someone else’s point of view – especially in situations you have not experienced yourself. I think this is a tie that binds alot of the reactions we tend to have when called on our racist or sexist thinking.
As an example, up until I was about 30 years old, I pretty much dismissed the idea of racial profiling by law enforcement. That is because it never happened to ME, so it never rose to the level of an important issue. I’m sure I was dismissive of those who may have tried to talk to me about it. Then I had a friend while I lived in Southern California who was Hawaiian, but looked Mexican. When I heard he and his wife explain his experience with being stopped regularly for walking across the courtyard of his apartment complex – it became real to me. AHA, how I get it!! I’m sorry that’s what it took for me and I don’t know that its possible to wait until we have all had exposure to someone who has experienced every form of marginalization – so are there other ways for us to learn this?
Can we call Kos defenders “Defenders of the Kos” instead? It’s funny (at least in my head) and it plays to the notion of personality cult.
Kos is an authority, in the sense of being in a powerful leadership position. People are springing to his defense who would, as you say, regard his actions as an offense if he were not in this position.
I am reminded of Bob Altemeyer in The Authoritarians:
The “[they]” in the quote is “authoritarian followers”, a population that is relatively rare in the left blogosphere. Presumably, this whiff of authoritarian followership is weak and situation-dependent, but it does fall into an all-to-common human pattern of relaxing standards for leaders.
Whups. The “you” above should have been “Steven D”.
I think that “you” above can apply to a lot of people, whether they made such a comment themselves or agree with the premise of it.
Anyone who looks to Kos (or any other Blogger for that matter) as an “authority” has obviously missed the entire advantage of “thinking for themselves” that the Blogosphere provides.
heh
Keep up the fantastic work. He needs to come out with a genuine apology. There are no ifs ands or buts about it. His comments were incredible insensitive.
I am starting to look at him as a handicap, in the same way that Imus is/was to any liberal cause.
I had looked to Kos as an ally, even if he was a self-admitted “Reagan republican” moderate/conservative/libertarian…
But there comes a time when you have to stop giving the guy ladders and take away his shovel. Imus found the bottom of his hole… For Kos, the hole is getting awfully deep now.
even when he’s been proven to be completely, and idiotically, wrong.
I don’t know if it’s his personality, or if he subscribes to the “Swimming with Sharks” type of philosophy (that to apologize is a sign of weakness), but it’s just never gonna happen.
In this instance I think he was right about what he said. If you can’t take the heat, get out of the kitchen. If you’re THAT worried about death threats and the like, maybe you just shouldn’t blog in a public forum. Because that is the inevitable result of it.
I’ve had death threats and I’ve even had people show up outside my house that I’ve chased off. Yes, it’s disturbing. Could it ever turn into something really heinous? Yes, there’s always that potential. But it’s an extremely small chance.
It’s like living in a city. If you think living in a city is “too dangerous” maybe you should move.
Really.
Honest.
“Truth In Advertising” is MY motto
Let ’em eat pie.
However dismissive Markos Moulitsos is of the legitimate concerns of others…and babies, he is ALL of that and more on levels that I cannot possibly adequately enumerate on the evidence of his own repeated statements and actions over the past several years…
However dismissive he may be of those legitimate concerns, let it be known far and wide.
Let ALL see where he is really coming from.
Even if he himself does not. (Which is why as his megalomania progresses he cannot keep his babyfat mouth shut. He is raising self-incrimination to new lows, and promises to mature into something akin to our very own Bill O’Reilly if the so-called “left” ever becomes a dominant enough force in this ongoing farce to even be able to HAVE an O’Reilly.
I am actually hoping for MORE Kos-isms.
Gee.
Maybe he’ll speak up on…on…oh, I don’t know.
How money talked and he didn’t walk.
I’d love to hear that one.
Armando…you still out there lurking?
WHADDA BUNCH MAROONS!!!
Later…
DSGUSTEDinNY
I think you are right that this should be the last post on this, barring new developments. There just isn’t much else to say.
Speaking only for myself, I am going to be reading different blogs and linking to different blogs.
Well, not from me, but do read Terrance’s new front page post.
Kos can say the stupidest, most offensive thing he wants without consequence.
Sure, people bitch and moan for a few days…then go back to reading DailyKos and posting diaries there (if they ever stopped).
Kos’ pageviews don’t go down, his advertising revenues don’t drop off, and everybody shrugs and “moves on”.
Kos, lives in a consequence-free environment. Kos will not mend his ways and permit progressive voices to speak alongside others on his blog so long as his current business model (running a Republican lite blog that has a Democratic label slapped on it for convenience) works for him.
And any of us who can enumerate Kos’ many transgressions, and his continuing disempowerment of progressive voices on his “Democratic” website, are accused of carrying an obsessive grudge.
Know what? I’m not ready to “get over it”, “not ready to make nice”, not “ready to move on”.
But Kos always depends on a lot of people doing just that. That’s how Don Imus got away with his BS for 15 years; that’s how Kos will get away with it for years more.
Yup. Apparently, I’m led to believe, thousands to hundreds of thousands of Democratic activists and progressives will all simply fade away (or turn republican or fascist or some such unspecified fate too horrid to contemplate) if they lose their Reagan Republican spokesman and his clubhouse full of bullies and bullshit, or if there’s a genuine progressive speaking for the progressive wing.
If the people who tell me this are correct, they’re also correct that it’s all over, the Enlightenment and everything from it failed, and it’s time to go back to our nice quiet little slave hovels.
Personally, I have more faith in progressives and democracy than that. I don’t think the folks spinning that story are correct.
I do think they’re probably Right.
Hmmm. I never went back to reading it. I’m sure I’m not the only one.
I suspect that the site is like many other things – a few years of growth, then it will reach some maximum size. After that, the problems on the site will cause more and more people to leave, while the crazies stay.
Honestly, at this point, I don’t see that site as being much different from those idiotic “dittoheads” in the 90s. It’s just a bunch of people shouting to themselves, trying to make themselves feel big.
Steven, the tubes, they are a-shakin’. Rock on.