It depends on how you look at it. Admittedly, I was a bit over-stimulated by being in the media room during this weeks presidential forum (even though I was immediately reminded that I was not media, “new media” status notwithstanding). And I had just written that homophobia probably wouldn’t be addressed, even though the forum kicked off with a kind of circle-jerk discussion about racism and racial discrimination. So I was stunned when Barrack Obama actually spoke the word “homophobia” while answering a question about the AIDS epidemic.
Tavis Smiley: Senator Obama?
Barack Obama: I think John’s prescriptions are right. I would add the issue of prevention involves education and one of the things that we’ve got to overcome is a stigma that still exists in our communities. We don’t talk about this. We don’t talk about in the schools. Sometimes we don’t talk about it in the churches. It has been as aspect of sometimes a homophobia, that we don’t address this issue as clearly as it needs to be. I also think there’s a broader issue here. This is going to be true on all the issues we talk about.
The problems of poverty, like of health care, like of educational opportunity, are all interconnected. To some degree, the African American community is weakened. It has a disease to its immune system. When we are impoverished, when people don’t have jobs, they are more likely to be afflicted not just with AIDS, but with substance abuse problems, with guns in the streets.
So it is important for us to look at the whole body here and make absolutely certain that we are providing the kinds of economic development opportunities and jobs that will create healthy communities, that we’ve got universal health care that ensures the people can get regular treatments. Those are the kinds of strategies that, over the long term, are going to make a difference in our communities.
And while I was somewhat disappointed with how quickly he danced away from the issue, and failed to include it in his list of “social diseases” affecting African American communities (after all, homophobia is likely involved to some degree in substance abuse and violence), I was so stunned to hear the word even used at a forum focused on issues facing African Americans that I missed the significance of his next comment, in his exchange with Sen. Biden on the same question.
Joe Biden: …I got tested for AIDS. I know Barack got tested for AIDS. There’s no shame in being tested for AIDS. It’s an important thing because the fact of the matter is, in the communities engaged in denial, no one wants to talk about it in the community and we do not have enough leaders in the community and outside the community demanding we face the reality, confront the men in the community as well as the women, letting them know there are alternatives.
Tavis Smiley: Thank you.
Barack Obama: Tavis, I just got to make clear that I got tested with Michelle when we were in Kenya in Africa, so I don’t want any confusion here about what’s going on.
Joe Biden: Well, I got tested to save my life because I had a blood transfusion.
Barack Obama: I was tested with my wife.
Tavis Smiley: And I’m sure Michelle appreciates you clarifying that.
Barack Obama: In public.
It wasn’t until I read the transcript the next morning that I caught the significance of that exchange, especially in light of Obama’s previous remarks about homophobia. Initially, I was more impressed with his remark about homophobia, which was undeniably significant in that setting, as Pam points out.
This was long overdue — a presidential candidate calling out the silence that is killing people — black women are 25 times as likely to be infected with HIV than white women, as Hillary Clinton noted. If the situations were reversed it would be a national health and education emergency commanding the attention of the MSM and government. But that is not the case — there is a pitiful silence on too many levels — but not last night.
Obama’s short, but powerful statement on black homophobia is one that none of the other candidates mentioned. Is this a surprise? No — addressing the responsibility of the black community to open its eyes regarding its reticence to take on an internal bias that has allowed HIV/AIDS to ravage it touches the third rail of race. The candidates fear perceptions of a paternalistic white finger being waved at the community will result in blowback from black voters.
I’m grateful that there was a black man up on that stage to broach the subject of homophobia in this community, but the fear of the other pols needs to be overcome, all bridges need to be crossed when the statistics are this stark and horrifying.
I, too, was grateful. So much in fact that I was willing to soften (though not take back) some of my earlier criticisms of Obama. But the second comment didn’t come across as lighthearted to me as it did to some people.
Speaking of nice moments, Obama showed his ease in the debate a few minutes ago. After Sen. Joe Biden (Del.) said that both he and Obama had been tested for AIDS, Obama jumped in to note that he had been tested with his wife, Michelle — jokingly adding that he didn’t want anyone to think anything “funny” was going on. The crowd laughed as PBS showed Michelle on screen. The moment showed how Obama has grown in the first three debates; he appears relaxed and comfortable tonight.
Relaxed? Comfortable? Maybe I’m drawing too much on my experience as a black gay man, but Obama’s reaction came across to me as much like the reaction of so many “bruthas” when the topic of homosexuality comes up. Even the most seemingly non-homophic will follow up a seemingly progressive statement about homosexuality by saying or otherwise affirming that “I ain’t no punk.”
However, moments later, he reverted back to schoolyard ways and had a complete frat boy moment wherein he felt it necessary to reaffirm his heterosexuality. Senator Biden had just encouraged people to be tested for HIV by giving himself and Senator Obama as examples of public officials who had done so publicly.
… With one comment, he erased the possibility that he would start a meaningful conversation in the Black community about this serious issue. This seems to reveal not only some level of homophobia, but also a level of immaturity which causes me to question Obama’s ability to go all the way in this campaign.
Clearly, his comfort with the issue only goes so far. In the light of morning, far from the flashbulbs and the headiness of being in close proximity to political celebrity, Obama’s second response seemed to me a superfluous affirmation of his heterosexuality (given the presence of his wife in the audience, at least) and one that would only be necessary to a mind that read Biden’s remark as an implication that he and Obama got tested together and thus had some reason to get tested together. A “comfortable” candidate wouldn’t have felt it necessary to respond affirm his heterosexuality by responding to Biden’s comment, but would have laughed it off instead, without further comment.
And speaking of laughter, given the response of the audience to Obama’s second remark — raucus laughter that seemed to me to be in stark contrast to the subdued response to his earlier remark about homophobia — indicates that, contrary to Lane Hudson’s assessment in his HuffPo piece, any “level of immaturity” indicated in Obama’s second remark may actually enhance his ability to “go all the way” in this campaign rather than hobble him in any way.
I’ve written about black homophobia and its origins before, and I will again, but it occurs to me that it was briefly on display Thursday night, both on the stage and in the audience. In his first line, Obama was “keeping it non-homophobic” for just a minute and the audience response was polite at best. In his second line, Obama was “keeping it real” and they loved him for it.
So, did Obama blow it? That depends on how you look at it.
Meant to write this after the debate, but got busy with other stuff. I’ve got another post on black homophobia coming at some point.
Do you feel Biden was trying to suggest that Obama is gay? I got that feeling when he said it (before Obama responded). Then I thought to myself ‘Nah, Biden just has a way of running his mouth without thinking about the implications of what he is saying.’
But, when Obama responded that way I also thought he was panicking and revealed himself to be horrified at the thought anyone might consider he was gay. It didn’t sit well with me.
Interesting that we both wondered what ol’ Joe was up to with his comments but came to different conclusions (see down thread).
Here’s the thing: if you wanted to appeal to voters’ latent fears in this country of a possible Black candidate, you wouldn’t insinuate he’s gay–that doesn’t cut deeply enough. You’d play to the sexual inferiority/promiscuous sexual appetite/fears of bedding white women thing. It’s still a, potent fear, as evidenced by the Harold Ford example.
By Obama’s saying that he publicly had an AIDS test with his Black wife, he’s announcing that 1) he’s not the sexual appetite stereotype and 2) that he’s not at all into white women.
And point two plays to settle both white and black fears. With whites, it’s obvious. With Blacks, esp. Black women, it is Well, he didn’t metaphorically kick us to the curb when he became successful. I’ve heard several Black woman say that she’s glad he has a Black wife. And it’s not because whew, he’s not gay but whew, he actually married a Black woman as talented and intelligent as he. Or more.
The dynamics in play have nothing to do with homophobia but everything to do with Obama not being a decidedly straight stereotype for whites or blacks–ESPECIALLY given the long history with it. That’s why I think the TNR columnist is reaching.
And Terrance: I can’t know what it’s like for you as a Black gay man. I know that whole fear of I can’t have them think I’m gay exists. It just doesn’t make sense in this particular case, given the other more powerful stereotypes that work “better.”
I thought about the infidelity thing too. But I’m reconstructing what raced through my mind in the few seconds between Biden saying it and Obama responding. My thoughts were there but barely formed.
I guess my first association with an AIDS test is that it relates to being gay and my second association is with being promiscuous. Probably my third, which I didn’t have time to get to, is being a junkie.
I didn’t have time to think too much. I just thought, ‘Is Biden insinuating he’s Obama’s gay lover? Why did he just say that? Is he saying Obama cheats on…’
Then, like you, I just chalked it up to Biden’s diarrhea mouth.
I forgot to even comment on it when I reviewed the debate. The very fact that Biden would reveal a personal detail like that about Obama was almost incredible to me. Follow this with Obama’s feverish denials of any implication that he might be gay – just wow. Wow, wow, wow. That was possibly the ugliest exchange I’ve ever seen in a debate.
And it took away all the positive points Obama got from me for being one of the few public figures willing to talk about homophobia in the black community.
God, I almost wish you hadn’t reminded me. It was an awful moment. Good discussion, though.
I thought Obama was clarifying that he got tested with his wife rather than with another women. The way Biden said, “I know Barack got tested for aids,” created an awkward moment–why does Biden know Obama got tested? Obama diffused the situation with his comments.
That doesn’t make any sense for Obama’s comments to be defending his masculinity. People know he’s not gay. He was just clarifying that his testing wasn’t due to infidelity.
You BET it depends.
I do not know how many times I am going to have to say this.
They are professional politicians. As well as they can, they do the math. What cannot be pinned by polling is guessed at.
YOU do the math.
The percentage of people who are truly pro-acceptance of homosexuals as equal to heteros in this society among the people who are likely to vote in the upcoming primaries and/or will control who is nominated at the DemRat convention?
What? 10%? I doubt it. Go into almost any Dem clubhouse in the US outside of a few heavily gay neighborhoods and in some sort of way aggressively indicate your homosexuality. And watch. You may get some lip service (C’MON! You know what I mean.), but that will be about it. And approach people in a sexual manner? Even gently? You gonna get clocked, I’ll give you 80 to 1. At the very LEAST rebuffed in a quite panicked manner.
For every vote gained by affirming homosexuals’ right to equality, probably more like 10 votes will be lost.
It’s a fact.
They know it, and you should know it too.
However…the pro-homosexual vote COULD be a deal maker. So they glide and elide around that point. The clever ones do, anyway. The oines who are going to come out somewhere near the top of the pile.
And the dummies?
Hell, they are either Republicans or Bidens in the FIRST place.
Biden is just in there for comic relief.
YOU know…like that character actor in a film? The one who appears to be serious but just doesn’t quite get what the heroes and heroines are really all about?
Yup.
THAT one.
Hair plugs and all.
Meanwhile the likely winners continue their victory dances.
using the classic glide step.
JUST like Obama did with this hot potato.
Glide forward, then side-glide and backstep.
The result?
Overall?
Just like you said, Terrance.
Yup.
Meanwhile, the 90%?
THEY hear the only the backstep.
Bet on it.
Talent is as talent does.
And NOTHING that they say is “true”.
Situational ethics.
INVENTED by politicians.
Bet on it.
AG
Unwelcome sexual advances are, well, unwelcome.
That’s not an indication of acceptance of equality.
Men that get slapped by girls don’t assume anything about their equality and neither should men that get clocked by men.
Otherwise, your point about what people ‘hear’ is probably too true.
When was the last time that YOU saw an avowedly heterosexual man smack down a mainstream desirable woman for “flirting” with him? Metaphorically or otherwise. THAT is considered a compliment. Not an insult.
And there you have it.
My point, I mean.
AG
It’s not much of a point. When was the last time you saw a woman smack down a woman for making an unwelcome sexual advance?
Women smack men, not women. Men generally are not offended by sexual advances from women, whether they are interested or not. Women are the same.
disturbingly machiavellian, I think, but it also doesn’t seem to relate to Obama, since Obama certainly didn’t “glide” around ANYTHING during that exchange. I would say that the opposite is true. I would say that he made an uncomfortable situation a lot more uncomfortable.
on who is feeling the discomfort.
AG
P.S. And if machiavellianism disturbs you…you had better look away from the political process on every level where it has real risks and rewards (even the size of say the mayoralty of a small town) because ol’ Niccolò PINNED that one.
That’s why it’s called “machiavellianism” instead of…oh…pollyannaism.
And as far as whether he was gliding…he took a strong first step and then IMMEDIATELY reemphasized his heterosexuality by bringing his wife into the discussion.
Is the dance working?
You be the judge.
07-01-2007, 19h37
WASHINGTON (AFP)
Democratic White House hopeful Barack Obama, seen here on 30 June 2007, obliterated party fundraising records by raking in at least 32.5 million dollars in the last three months, outpacing his top rival Hillary Clinton.
Democratic White House hopeful Barack Obama obliterated party fundraising records by raking in at least 32.5 million dollars in the last three months, outpacing his top rival Hillary Clinton.
Obama said Sunday the staggering figure, the latest huge fundraising windfall in the 2008 race, which is on pace to be the most expensive in history, was “just the beginning” of a movement to transform America.
It looks to me like he’s got eyes to be on a US coin someday.
Yup.
The black Lincoln.
Watch.
AG
I read an interview with Obama at least a month or so ago(and can’t remember where right now)where one remark of his jumped out at me about AIDS…he said one of the reasons for AIDs is that men and women lost the ability to talk to each other and we need to get back to that..and I’m going ‘huh?’…what the hell is he getting at here…how does men and women not talking to each other promote aids? I know the way I read it I thought it was an incredibly stupid and clueless remark..didn’t set well with me at all. I’ll have to see if I can find that article to see if I’m remembering right his statement.
My guess is that what he was saying, somewhat clumsily perhaps, is that people don’t communicate about sex; that part of the problem is that they spend more time doing it than communicating about it. So there are a host of things that don’t get discussed, like using protection, etc.
I remember years ago I participated in a pilot HIV prevention program for gay men here in DC, called “Score in Four.” The idea was to encourage gay men to put off sex until at least the fourth date. The hope was that during that time they might communicate about issues like HIV status or condom use, but also that they might be more inclined to discover compatibility or incompatibility before getting involved sexually.
When it comes to men and women, my guess is that perhaps communication would serve some of the same purposes, and maybe empower women to speak up about condom use, etc. I don’t know. That’s just my guess.
I thought this was about fidelity. If some guy said he and my husband got tested together, the FIRST thing I’m thinking is So you’re both whoring around on your partners? I’m not thinking, Ohmygod, you’re on the DL!! So two men getting an AIDS test automatically means “gay”? Really? Why wouldn’t you think “infidelity” first?
Second. Why is any talk about HIV/AIDS automatically mean “gay”? Isn’t THAT a stereotype? Given how friggin clueless Edwards and Cheney were to Gwen Ifill’s question during the last VP debate, it would seem that a pres. hopeful would be prepared to answer a question and/or propose solutions.
Third. Immediately after watching the debate, I started wondering why Biden would mention that Obama got an AIDS test. Wasn’t it enough that he had one? Why mention Obama at all? Was he trying to insinuate he was a whore? Tapping into the stereotypes of Black men and sexual appetite? Shades of Harold Ford (not the white woman aspect but the promiscuous aspect of it)? I dismissed it and chalked it up to Joe Biden being Joe Biden.
Finally–and this is just me speaking here–wouldn’t you be grossed out at the thought of being with Joe, too? Hair plugs and “so fresh and so clean” jokes and a mouth that runs on and on…yeah, yummy. It’s like insisting that Fred Thompson is sexy. And if the gossip is to be believed, Obama doesn’t care too much for him, so I’d think he’d be disgusted at the mere thought of walking across the street with him, not to mention doing anything together outside of what he has to do with him. And I would think that would include things like dinner, working out, buying a present for your kids or getting an AIDS test.
I just feel like this is a hatchet job on him. I really do.