Personally, I think some kind of compulsory national service obligation would make our foreign policy less militaristic. When you have to convince Mr. and Mrs. Joe Smith that the country needs their son or daughter for cannon fodder you best have a compelling reason…and uppity Marxists in Grenada ain’t gonna cut it. On the other hand, reinstating a draft for the purpose of maintaining a failed policy in Iraq and Afghanistan is not a splendid idea. I hope that is what Hillary Clinton is getting at in this press release.
Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton today called on President George Bush and Defense Secretary Robert Gates to clarify the Administration’s position on re-instituting the military draft, in light of White House Deputy National Security Adviser Lt. Gen. Douglas Lute saying yesterday that the draft “has always been an option on the table” – which contradicts previously stated Administration policy.
“Our volunteer military is the best in the world and has been performing heroically under difficult circumstances,” Clinton said. “While our force is under strain, a draft is not the answer. I call upon President Bush and Secretary Gates to clarify Gen. Lute’s remarks and affirm their commitment to the all-volunteer force. Rather than raising the specter of a draft, the Administration should be focusing on providing our current service members with the equipment and benefits they need and deserve.”
I know I wouldn’t serve in our armed services under our current leadership and I don’t believe anyone should be compelled to serve under them. That doesn’t mean that a national service program is necessarily a bad idea. But now is not the time to contemplate one.
A draft is exactly what we need to get our youngsters off their asses and out on the streets to end this war. The future is about them and they are just too busy with their materialistic existences to even bother with stuff like voting or protesting. Harsh comment, I know… but once enough young Republicans get called up for service, there will be a REAL sea-change in this country. I say we give the President authorization to start a draft all by himself in the Defense Authorization bill that will be worked on in September. Make it a part of the troop-readiness amendment that calls for equal time out-of-combat as in-combat. That way he can start that draft without any debate in Congress. It would be wise to also specify that there will be NO exceptions or deferments of any kind if a draft is called for by the President.
You know, there may be ways to get the foreign policy-social benefits of a draft without creating one now. How about tying a mandatory draft with no exemptions to any war powers resolution. No war without a draft and no draft without a war!
I believe that would get us all the benefits of a draft without having to go there!
A pro-war opinion piece gets you a visit from a recruiter asking for your support.
just to play devil’s advocate, perhaps now is
the time to contemplate one.
it certainly would focus public attention on the mishandling of the war by this administration, and their lies and obfuscations. lt’s also likely to make the prospect of hostilities with iran, or others, considerably less acceptable to the sheeple when they figure out that biff and buffy are going to have to go put their ass on the line to cover their chickenhawk bs…assuming of course, that deferments would not exist…1A or 4F…everybody goes in the hopper.
as to a less militaristic foreign policy as a result….l have serious doubts about that. just because BushCo™ has screwed everything they’ve touched 5 ways to sunday, isn’t going to be changed by being able to mobilize massive numbers of cannon fodder.
and just for the record, l strongly oppose conscription of any kind, and spent way to much time and energy many years ago, working to see it end, to wish for a new version.
lTMF’sA
Three options:
1. The draft
From The Guardian/Observer, UK
I think it’ll be more red bull and terra bullshit.
well, you know…
“… that one can’t make a big democracy omelette without breaking a few hundred thousand eggs…
lots of cannon fodder, and massive quantities of redbull(shit)…the war on terra’s hard work.
lTMF’sA
In these circumstances conscription will prolong the war. What we currently have is a case of “what if they gave a war and nobody came.” They literally do not have the troops.
In the end we will leave Iraq for the same reason the French left Vietnam, we will be forced by the Iraqis. All the discussion of this war leaves out the Iraqis. They have something to say about this.
I just read that the Army alone spent a billion fucking dollars on propaganda I mean recruiting ads and bonuses for signing up. Another billion dollars down the drain.
Bush’s “War Czar” wouldn’t have said it if the draft wasn’t part and parcel of the plan. The good general could have simply said “Our all-volunteer force can handle the job” and left it at that. He didn’t. In fact the Bushies have always been dead careful to ensure the Draft wasn’t in play.
But how else are we going to keep up Bush’s war? Recruitment standards continue to be lowered. Pretty soon we’re going to see more arguments made for the draft. You’re seeing it being talked about now because it’s being strongly considered later.
It always was the plan. It’s just now being admitted to.
I can’t say that it was always the plan. However, it’s obvious that is has to be considered now if for no other reason as to keep us all talking and fearfully contemplating a draft and it’s implications while they get to coast through their last 15 months. After that, it’s someone else’s problem.
…as to the ages of the commenters above, mainly because I see five people that are all too eager to sign youthful lives away to the machinations of the state.
I see five people that are all too eager to sign youthful lives away to the machinations of the state.
Not at all. If none of you young people that were drafted showed up, that would be the end of most imperial projects right there and then. This wouldn’t be the signing away of youthful lives, since I doubt that people would be shot for resisting the draft.
Personally, I think that unless the very existence of the nation is threatened, the state has no right to draft people. Therefore, a draft under the current circumstances would be completely illegitimate, so that it would be the duty of everyone to resist the draft.
And yes, I belong to that generation that never so much had to register for the draft, could drink and vote at 18, and could openly use drugs in college without the campus police getting excited about it.
I am one of the five that our friend is complaining about. My comment was not that I would like to see a draft, but to see us authorize one with no exceptions allowed.
The motive behind this is to get our youngsters to wake up and give a damn about what’s happening in their name because it now affects them. There has been no sacrifice in this country except by the military-family-class. Until people feel a threat of even potentially having to sacrifice anything for BushCo’s corporate interests, they’ll continue to allow it because it’s far more interesting to follow celebrity gossip, watch American Idol and leave “politics” to the old folks.
Another idea is to make all war funding have to be revenue-neutral, without affecting other discretionary spending – a massive war tax. That might make some of our “patriots” who feel their only sacrifice should be the cost of that yellow-ribbon magnet on their SUV actually think twice about their support for this illegal war.
I don’t think anyone misunderstood your remark. We understood that you would like a draft with no exceptions allowed to be authorized, but I think our friend would not like to see a draft of any kind, whether instituted or simply authorized.
As for a war tax, that of course is a non-starter. In any case, the idea that the occupation of Iraq requires us to cut down our non-military spending is bogus, since what is financing the occupation isn’t tax revenues, but the current account deficit. In other words, the US can pay for this war only because as the US prints dollars to pay for the war, foreigners hold those dollars, because the dollar serves as an international reserve currency. If it didn’t serve that privileged role, printing all those dollars would create a great deal of inflation.
Thus, it is not Americans who are paying for the war, but foreigners, largely the Chinese: a true sign of empire.
l see no one here arguably supporting a return to the draft as a positive thing. and l specifically noted my opposition to such a move:
l do, in fact. see people who think that something needs to happen to wake up the nation to the incredible blundering, and plundering of their and their children’s birthrights, constitutionally, fiscally, and economically; and if discussing the very real prospects of a draft is part of that awakening, so be it.
you may or may not be like alexander, and not had to face the very real prospect of conscription that was the case during the viet nam war. which, much like the situation today, should one be re-instigated, either by decree or enabling legislation, if you were unlucky enough to have your number come up, it was a one way ticket to the tip of the spear, return passage booked 12 mos later, assuming you lasted that long.
it was people, like me and many others l know, who were out in the streets, from chicago to selma, dc to watts, that laid the groundwork and paid the price for your emancipation from the odious sss. but don’t be lulled into a false sense of security, because the draft may be gone, but it’s not forgotten. the draft boards are still out there, and they’ve been busy for a number of years now. when the new war tzar, in his first major interview brings it to the table, it seems rather myopic to ignore it. [see Return of the “Long War” zandar1]
the only way to be pro-active in seeing that such a thing does not come to pass is to end this misadventure, and prevent the next one from erupting in the next 16 months. you can’t do that following paris hilton’s latest adventure/ephipany, voting for your favorite american idol, or adding new ‘friends’ on face book.
as AG says: WAKE THE FUCK UP!
lTMF’sA
How about retaining a volunteer military, but mandating that any group or faction of society openly advocating war must agree to donate their children to the effort in equal proportion to others if they are under-represented at the time the war is proposed? In the same spirit of honesty behind the “Healthy Forest Initiative”, “No Child Left Behind Initiative”, and “Clear Skies Initiative”, we could call it the “Neo-Con Fairness Initiative”.
How about a draft that assign priority in this order:
3.Those who mock veterans who have lost their limbs.
I will add more to this list.
Here’s a better assignment list:
hey Boo- are you serious? Of course its time for a Draft. Without a doubt. If the goopers want to play war then let the whole country participate. No excuses whatsoever. Not a one. Ya gets a number and when your number comes up– YOU GO!!!!!.
How long do you think the war will last?? 1 hour?
For crying out loud, there will be a march on washington, the canadian border and the mexican border- all at the same time. Puleeeeze- “Take our boys and girls and throw them into that horrible place.
Just thinking about it gets me wet! A draft is the answer. Do you know what these bastards would have to do if they announced a draft? Remember how quietly the bin ladens were gotten out of the country? Well I would bet the house that the bushies wouldn’t even be in the country when the announcement is made.
Stop wasting time Boo. I pray every nite for that announcement. It aint happening.Remember- all the lying scum have to do is get to Jan 9 09. They will dump the frigging mess in the next admins lap and laugh all the way to their new homes in Dubai!
Then there will be a draft.
Lute’s trial balloon has to be seen in the context of a possible war with Iran. If Cheney gets his wish and starts one, all hell will break loose in the Persian Gulf region.
$100/bbl oil and $5/gallon gasoline will become certainties. The already shaky economy will tank. And there just be enough hysteria churned up in the country for Bushco to get away with reintroducing the draft.
Of course, democracy in the US might be another casualty, but hey, we have to learn to take the bitter with the sweet.
You think that this generation is going to take the possibility of living over being forced to do their ‘patriotic’ duty in a foreign country?
Oil is already close to $75.00 a barrel. I predict over $100 a barrel and $10 gas.
Don’t get me wrong: I think that we need national service that will not entail simply going to war. I think that this should be their choice if they are drafted.
We need something like the old alphabet New Deal agencies to recover our infrastructure.
Just the mention of the draft is going to get a log of eyeballs gyrating. You can only wonder how anyone could think of maintaining any sizeable force in Iraq beyond next spring without drafting recruits. Nowhere have I seen that the U.S. is withdrawing in significant numbers any time soon. But even if mandatory conscription is introduced tomorrow how much time would it take to organize the system and have the first soldiers in Iraq? Does any one know what their talking about, including the Democratic presidential contenders? By the way, I dodged the draft in 1967 and I’m not wishing this shit on anyone. On the other hand it is disgusting how people stay so complacent while the repugnants send the whole world down the drawn.
Withdraw completely and unconditionally from Iraq today. Begin negotiating U.S. war reparations tomorrow.
Withdraw completely and unconditionally from Iraq today. Begin negotiating U.S. war reparations tomorrow.
Correction for sake of reality:
Announce draft today. Within a week or a month, the public will demand that we withdraw completely and unconditionally from Iraq. Begin negotiating U.S. war reparations the day after that.
And don’t forget this time round women will be conscripted along with men. I wonder how that will play out? Not to mention all those pusillanimous Young Republicans, fervently pounding their chests and sounding their war cries in support of a war that they have no intention of risking their precious lives on. But then again, as the proud mother of six homosexuals, my children will not be fighting or dieing in this god-damned immoral Republican 100 year war either.
I have mixed feelings about this. On the one hand, a draft would eliminate all of those recruiting problems and enable our leaders to use the military – much like buying a bottle of rum for an alcoholic.
On the other hand, the general public will be less supportive of military adventures around the world.
In the end though, as long as the U.S. thinks of itself as an empire (even though our leaders don’t state this explicitly, a lot of the talk from both parties essentially derives from the notion of an American empire and the need to maintain and protect it), there will always be the temptation to try and use force to get our way.
Ultimately we need to think of how to get the American populace to let go of the notion of empire. In the old days, American workers benefited in that American jobs were created when we sold stuff to our proxies around the world, but with globalization there really isn’t much that the average person gets out of the deal, so our leaders are reduced to talking about “bringing democracy” or some such.
Yes it is. A narrowly constructed draft.
It is time for a draft of supporters of the war who are between the ages of 18 and 42. And the most identifiable vocal should be first in line, Jonah Goldberg.
I’m sure it would focus their minds most wonderfully.
Right now they are having the best of both worlds. Acting like they have balls when they actually are cowards. Hello Ann and Michelle, how was that transplant?
Oh, lest we forget the events of the pre-recess weekend, Good Morning Mr. Gonzales and Director McConnell, I hope you are having a pleasant summer Sunday.