Good news from Venezuela as the New York Times reports that Hugo Chavez narrowly lost his attempt to change the Constitution through referendum and strip term limits away (among other amendments). This removes the number one talking point for the Monroe Doctrine neo-con exceptionalists that would like to topple/interfere in Venezuela’s internal affairs. It also means that Chavez will have to step down at the end of his term.
This is how things should be. I have no problem with Venezuela staking out its independence from America. But they should keep their Constitution and the balance of powers. When Chavez fulfills his term it will be time for someone else.
The amusing thing is that all the prominent Americans (like Donald Rumsfeld) that were decrying this effort to seize dictatorial powers will now have to shut the fuck up. There was a referendum, the people spoke, the people won. What’s the problem?
All that hysteria about Chavez as dictator — for what? Now we don’t even get to topple him or kill him in a ‘plane crash’.
Also, note how little was said about Putin’s overwhelming victory at the polls. Maybe the Bushies and the village have learned to pick their battles.
Guess that’s what happens when you are an impotent, rotting empire…
i generally love chavez but he went too far with some of the proposals.
they should have concentrated on the social security and communal property issues etc etc and less on the consolidating political power and trying to say he could be prez for several more terms if elected.
but this battle isn’t over, regardless of the one time vote outcome. venezuela is going to the left along with the rest of latin america, and good thing too.
Rumsfeld shut up? I have a bridge for you.
Since when has it mattered to the nattering classes whether any South American country is democratic? Did it matter in Chile?
Well, we DO need them to be democratic and all…
The problem is that they keep electing the wrong people.
So it’s their fault, really, you see? If they’d only be more responsible with their elections we wouldn’t have to keep overthrowing them.
I think you answered your own question there!
Yeah I’m so incredibly “thankful” this thing didn’t pass.
First of all, the only thing ANY non-Venezuelan among us (including myself) should be thankful for is that the voting was free and fair and reflected the DEMOCRATIC will of the people. PERIOD.
Frankly I don’t care if they were voting to make the Cat in the Hat hat required dress on Sundays. It’s their country.
Secondly, the vote was incredibly close, as close as Bush and Gore in 2000. Instead of what Bush did, Chavez conceded the loss immediately.
Third, let’s all “celebrate” some of the proposed amendments, including those that:
Sounds like Miller Time down in old Caracas.
As for the abolition of presidential term limits, I always find it particularly hilarious that the United States managed to do just fine for 160 years with no term limits but screams bloody murder if Venezuela wants to democratically change their system after less than 50 years.
And let’s not even forget the U.S. backed a dictator, a military GENERAL for over 17 years in this century in Venezuela. Guess term limits wasn’t such a BIG DEAL in those days, eh?
And I’d really like to know when Donald Rumsfeld became a “prominent” American.
p.s. Hugo Chavez didn’t lose. A policy supported by 49.3% of those who voted lost to the 50.7% who voted against it. Todo ya es tuanis.
Pax
First of all, the only thing ANY non-Venezuelan among us (including myself) should be thankful for is that the voting was free and fair and reflected the DEMOCRATIC will of the people. PERIOD.
I agree that we should be thankful for this, but not ONLY for this. I think it’s actually great that Chavez’s proposals got beaten in a referendum – because it puts the lie to the idea that Venezuela has become some kind of rogue state with an unfettered dictatorship.
We have a state where the president wants to enact some pretty massive changes and he feels the need to place them before the people to get them to ratify them – and he loses. He loses in a razor thin loss that, given the margin of error of elections, would be fertile ground to “fix” the results to make it turn out how he wanted the results to turn out. Or he could have contested the results and demanded recounts until he got a total that he liked. He didn’t do any of those things – instead he conceded his loss and will be moving on for now (though I suspect that some of these things may appear again before his term runs out in 2013).
But now Chavez has a level of legitimacy in the world that he didn’t have before this election. Sure the US is still going to treat him like public enemy #4, but the rest of the world is now much more likely to roll their eyes when the US starts screaming about “dictatorship” in Venezuela. And that’s a big, big net plus for Chavez. And a net plus for those of us who don’t like to see our governments interfering with the sovreignity of other people’s governments.
But not only that, it gives me some solace that democracy is finally really taking root in South America. Despite decades of US interference in South America and us propping up one fascist dictator after another as long as they supported our our interests, it really is looking like democracy is working in South America now. And THAT is something we can all be thankful for – as long as the US can keep its fingers out.
Agreed 100%.
Yet look at the DELICIOUS irony, that it takes a trash-talking uncouth bumpkin who openly flirts with Fidel and Raul to bring TRUE democracy to Venezuela. Add whipped cream and I could feast on it for years, it’s THAT delicious 😉
In other news, I’m about to burst a heart vessel listening to the punditocracy bleat on about Russia. But you take the victories where you can get ’em 🙂
Pax
I guess is time to impose electoral changes in those Latinamerican countries who don’t have a two term limit. How many countries can re-elect a president for a third term after sitting one out?
Where was the outcry when Fujimori was elected for a third term? Where was the outcry when former President Menem ran for a third term?
The interesting thing is that the posibility of more than one re-election does not assure it will happen. It all depends on the will of the people.
All of these either considered or implemented more than two terms. Plenty of our alies are in this list
Bill Clinton
Roosvelt
Nigeria
Uribe
Uganda
Chirac
Uzbek
Musharraf
Namibia
Putin
Fujimori
I sense some criticism of me that I am happy that this thing didn’t pass down in Venezuela.
So let me be clear.
Booman, This in no way is a criticism of you. I guess by now youknow me a little better than that: I would have said so directly :0)
It is only intended to point out that there are many countries that have more than two term limits, and the strong criticisms that have been said about Chavez (dictator, tyrant, etc)
I do not think that more than two terms are intrinsically bad. If it is the will of the people, so be it. I do think, that because it is the US system, it will be pushed as an universal value. Different countries have different perspectives, and those perspectives should be respected.
However it should be noted that because it was Chavez, a leftist, it was magnified. that is the point of this comment.
People like Roger Cohen at NYTimes do not realize that the movement that Chavez headed up is now millions strong.He has enfranchised the blacks, mulattoes,Indians and Mestizos of Venezuela who were dispossessed by the white Spanish aristocracy for a long time.Those days are never going to return.
So long as the people of Venezuela minus the white oligarchy have power at the ballot box, the US and its fellow travelers will have to face many thousands of Chavezes in the coming years.
Chavez has won and won big.
To me, the significance of all this is that the referendum lost and Chavez gracefully accepted the will of the voters. There was no discussion of overriding the rule of law. If Chavez is such a “dictator”, maybe what the US needs is more dictatorship. Maybe then we, too, could remember what rule of law feels like.
excellent point.
The crazyness that surrounds our administration regarding Chavez is almost funny-almost because after all they are crazy and still could do something really stupid regarding Venezuela(not likely but)…still it’s nice to see that there is someone who is giving them fits because they couldn’t buy him off and not only that he’s actually doing good things for his people-regular people. I’m sure that is truly what galls bushco-regular people finally getting a break. Maybe we need to send Chavez to New Orleans.
I’m just happy as an interested observer that people there are finally getting a fair shake and are able to express themselves democratically with their voting process.
Does our government always pick the wrong leaders to worry about?
Pretty much, yeah, it seems. Though I admit the Korean nutcases with nukes DO worry me a bit…