As Atrios notes, today is the five year anniversary of Tom Friedman’s appearance on the Charlie Rose show, where he justified the invasion of Iraq as an opportunity for American soldiers to burst the bubble of Arabs’ delusional thinking by busting down their doors and committing forcible rape:
Here’s Atrios’ commemoration:
You would think that advocating indiscriminate killing of people in some Middle Eastern country – any country will do! – just “because we could” would be the kind of thing which would cause people to respond with disgust and revlusion, and perhaps revoke your NYT columnist card. But, as we’ve learned so many times over the years, there’s really nothing you can say or write about the awesomeness of killing Arabs for random reasons which will stop your cocktail party invitations from coming. Friedman, I suppose, was at least not quite as narcissistic as Richard Cohen, who thought killing people in Iraq was a good idea because it would be “therapeutic” for our country. Dead innocent people so Cohen could save a bit on his shrink bill.
But the problem with Tom Friedman is that he’s very serious and taken very seriously. Unlike Maureen Dowd whose gibberish has lost its influence over the years, Tommy “Suck On This” Friedman is still The Most Serious Foreign Affairs Man In America. When Tom Friedman speaks, people listen, even as his metaphors become as bad as his advice.
So on Suck On This Day we should do our part to convince as many people as we can that Tom Friedman is a blithering idiot and a moral monster. Suck On This Tommy!
Getting people to understand that Tom Friedman is a ‘moral monster’, as Atrios calls him, is one of hardest things to accomplish. Unlike with the Bush administration, which has run through half a dozen justifications for the war, we are certain why Friedman supported the invasion. He supported it for the simple reason that he wanted U.S. soldiers and marines to go into some Arab country (not really important which Arab country) and knock down some doors and force the inhabitants to perform fellatio on them. This was actually done in at least one famous case.
Investigators believe American soldiers spent nearly a week plotting an attack in which they raped an Iraqi woman, then killed her and her family in an insurgent-ridden area south of Baghdad, a U.S. military official said Saturday.
According to the official, the Sunni Arab family had just moved into a new home in the religiously mixed area about 20 miles south of Baghdad. The Americans entered the home, separated three family members from the woman, then raped her and set fire to her body, the official said. The three others were also slain…
One of the officials familiar with details of the investigation told The Associated Press that a flammable liquid was used to burn the woman’s body in a cover-up attempt. It was unclear if it was gasoline or lighter fluid.
These soldiers showed slightly too much enthusiasm in carrying out Tom Friedman’s fantasy for Iraq, but they got the basics right. And, in fairness to George W. Bush, he has never advocated the use of such tactics or suggested that inflicting forcible rape on Arabs is a key part of the rationale for his decision to invade Iraq. Nonetheless, Bush gets much less respect from decent people than Tom Friedman. People even assume that Friedman has a more informed and nuanced view of foreign policy than our president. And that is one contest that it may be hard to arbitrate. What’s worse? This:
“F___ Saddam. we’re taking him out.” Those were the words of President George W. Bush, who had poked his head into the office of National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice. It was March 2002, and Rice was meeting with three U.S. Senators, discussing how to deal with Iraq through the United Nations, or perhaps in a coalition with America’s Middle East allies. Bush wasn’t interested. He waved his hand dismissively, recalls a participant, and neatly summed up his Iraq policy in that short phrase. The Senators laughed uncomfortably; Rice flashed a knowing smile. The President left the room.
Or this:
“We needed to go over there, basically, um, and um, uh, take out a very big stick right in the heart of that world and burst that bubble, and there was only one way to do it…
What they needed to see was American boys and girls going house to house, from Basra to Baghdad, um and basically saying, “Which part of this sentence don’t you understand?” You don’t think, you know, we care about our open society, you think this bubble fantasy, we’re just gonna to let it grow? Well, Suck. On. This.”
As I said earlier, advocating war for these reasons (or lack of reasons) is indicative of a moral monstrosity. But too many Americans felt this way at the time and now…well, now people can’t admit that Tom Friedman is a monster without admitting much the same about themselves.
Maybe you think I am being unfair to Mr. Friedman. After all, his advocacy of forced entry forcible rape as a foreign policy was just an unfortunate turn of phrase, meant in a strictly metaphorical way. Well, okay, here’s how Friedman put it in another setting.
“This [terrorism] bubble had to be burst, and the only way to do it was to go right into the heart of the Arab world and smash something—to let everyone know that we, too, are ready to fight and die to preserve our open society. Yes, I know, it’s not very diplomatic—it’s not in the rule book—but everyone in the neighborhood got the message: Henceforth, you will be held accountable. Why Iraq, not Saudi Arabia or Pakistan? Because we could—period. Sorry to be so blunt, but, as I also wrote before the war: Some things are true even if George Bush believes them.”
There’s nothing in this about raping people, just killing them and smashing their infrastructure ‘because we could-period’. That’s the level of thinking and casualness with which our elites led us into war. Happy Suck.On.This Day everybody. Nothing to see here…move along.
But Tom Friedman is married to a multi-billionaire heiress and has a house on Martha’s Vineyard so what he says and thinks and writes is really really important.
when a bunch of uniformed Arabs invade Martha’s Vineyard, bust down Tom Friedman’s door, and force his wife to suck.on.this, I’ll be interested to see if it bursts Mr. Friedman’s bubble or just makes him angrier than hell.
Interestingly, his sister used to come see my old band play in Manayunk.
She was such a nice woman. I wonder if she’s ashamed of her troglodyte brother (at least five of our songs were explicitly anti-war, and we did a version of the Louvin Brothers’ “Satan Is Real” in which the sermon usually called out Dick Cheney et al).
In any even, I’d like to see Tom Friedman eaten alive.
I’d just like to see him unemployed at the New York Times. And I’d like to his replacement be someone that had the common sense to oppose the invasion of Iraq before it began.
for capturing this moment and publicizing it. He does this sort of thing better than anyone else.
Notice no one says the next six months any more?
Somehow, I think the publicity of this day will find its way be to Friedman.
Yup. Duncan does it better than anyone, and more succinctly.
I certainly hope Tommy hears about it.
the guy needs to realize that real, actual-factual smart people know he’s a clown and that we hold him in withering contempt.
Personally, I’m hoping that his next column is really whiney and defensive, the way Richard Cohen got after Steven Colbert’s skewering at the WH Corresepondents’ Dinner.
Friedman’s worse: the only time anyone listens to Cohen is when he’s asking for someone to pass the cocktail franks. No one actually takes him seriously.
Tommy Friedman on the other hand has a reputation, and it is one that has remained relatively repectful, given his utter moral depravity.
Even his “reputation” such as it is ,is not merited,IMO.His profound insights into technology are banal at best and simply based on concocting slogans.
Consider “Lexus and the Olive Tree” or The Earth is Flat”.They add nothing to our discourse either on the technology or its impact on the people experiencing it.
All his travelogues in India or China are simply an excuse for Tommy to spend time at Five Star Hotels in Mumbai or Shanghai instead of his own palatial estates at home.
He never ever mingles with real people experiencing day-to-day living or its pains or pleasures.Those he talks to are people like cab drivers (with whom his encounters are short lived and cursory) or people who are the nabobs of politics or business in the host countries.All of them talk like they have read Friedman’s latest assaults on our intelligence.In short, they do not sound authentic and may well have been made up from a template.
All of these observations point to only one thing.People like Friedman do not really experience the life ordinary people, either in this country or abroad experience.In effect, what we see and hear from Friedman is a Potemkin version of reality.
One more thing.When he says “Suck.On.This” to a people who have been invaded by a power from across the ocean with no recourse to anything other than abject surrender,he has placed himself squarely among the oppressors of the weak, the black and brown skinned.Their cries for help or mercy probably will go unheard by the Friedmans of the world who are engaged in much more earth transforming phenomena.This is precisely what one of Friedman’s predecessors at the NYT used to peddle.C.L.Sulzberger was his name.He used to speak of things like “the arc of crisis”,the crescent of democracy” and other incomprehensible notions.That he would spout such esoteric nonsense while cozying up to dictators and tyrants is beside the point.For these men, the travel may be a ten thousand mile trip but they have never journeyed past their own ego bloated selves for it to be of any value either to themselves or to the people who read them.
“His profound insights into technology are banal at best and simply based on concocting slogans.“
Good observation. His allegedly profound alleged insights into the Middle East are based on a profound ignorance disguised as expertise.
does anyone have personal email info for Tommy?
http://topics.nytimes.com/top/opinion/editorialsandoped/oped/columnists/thomaslfriedman/index.html
OK, I know this will not be real popular around here but here goes…
First of all, how instructive is it to see something like that from five years ago. Very cool and informative.
That aside, I followed (as a lot of people did) what TF was saying at the time, and I recall him being very thoughtful, conflicted and informative on the issue. I recall his discussions about running his ideas past all sorts of people before publishing because of how important he know this was and that he know people would give this weight. He did not take this position lightly and he could not know W would f it up so royally.
And he is no lightweight when it come to the middle east. Few know/knew it better. But this was a game changing point in history. First in the 9/11 attacks in terms of scale and terror. Second in even contemplating invading Iraq. The point is, the rules were changed because the old game was seen as intolerable.
So, OK, here the key deal. If you make the choice (and it was a choice) to go kick some serious shit to say there is a new game, then that better be what you do.
I said then and I say now, regardless of whether military intervention was the best way to change the game (and that’s a legit argument), once you make that decision (and Bush forced that with the Axis of Evil speech) you bloody well better make sure you kick ass.
THAT is the greatest moral, tactical, and strategic blunder of this. Having made an arguably dubious decision with great risk, Bush did not do whatever was necessary to ensure is succeeded as best it could in its own flawed way.
he is sick in his mind, Andrew. He knows the middle east very well, but not well enough to know what 50 million dirty fucking hippies without access to intelligence reports knew.
when you give yourself and your country license to go around offering up your dicks at gunpoint to every person that makes you uncomfortable, you’ve truly drank your own hype.
Friedman helped get a lot of people killed. His mindset is a murderous one.
I prefer to make my critique of him less personal.
I know he did not make his analysis lightly. I recall him publicly back and forth trying to come to a position, openly debating the issues.
His suck it comments where unfortunate, but intended for deliberate effect. And it was meant figuratively, not literally as instructions to troops on the ground.
I think his position, even in this clip, that it just wasn’t OK anymore to suicide bomb and fund terror groups and the like to be spot on. It wasn’t and it isn’t.
But deciding that it just isn’t OK anymore and deciding what to do about it are two very different things and that’s where this administration got it terribly wrong.
There was and is a whole school of thought that in the Middle East, stark, brute and total force is the only thing the populous understand and respect. There is evidence to support that but there should always be ample consideration to the nuanced, enlightened, diplomatic, long view approach.
Today, five years out, it is hard to say that the “punch in the nose” approach would not have worked if they had thought beyond what we would do after shock and awe.
One thing is certain. If you are going the “suck this” route, make sure you back it up. This administration didn’t come close.
Please don’t see that as a Hawkish “we should have hit em hard” line. I’m just saying that if you commit to a plan of action commit to making it successful.
If there is a critique of TF here’s what I think it is. If he’s is such an expert on the middle east, he should have set the bar high and appropriate caution for the amount of command and control it might need to secure the peace and the consequences for failing to take total control.
H emissed on that by a mile and THAT has cost thousands of lives.
And with five years hindsight, he clearly could have made a case for other approaches to “pop the bubble” to end the acceptance of continue suicide/terrorist attacks in the Middle East.
If he is so smart, he could have gotten it differently.
But he chose, not reactively, and got it wrong.
There are lots of devils in this. I’d put others higher on the most wanted list.
well, I don’t know, Andy, he is the New York Times’ Foreign Correspondent. Maybe they should have someone slightly less enthusiastic for taking human life to make a point about how big our dicks are.
With people like Friedman, the starting point is that the United States is 100% guiltless and to suggest otherwise is to Hate America. Friedman sets out to understand 9/11 from the point of view both that the United States was at zero on the had-it-coming scale and that nothing we did in response could be possibly be unjustified.
Once you start of with assumptions like those, it’s short trip to knocking down doors and whipping out dicks in a country that didn’t attack you, that you can’t control, and that you know nothing about.
And this actually passes for seriousness. Even you buy into it rather than admitting that 9/11 gave you a slight and temporary case of brain damage. Just admit it. I have.
We went crazy as a nation. And we were raised on all this America-can-do-no-wrong bullshit, and it just warped our minds.
When Hannah Arendt talked about the banality of evil she was talking about people like Tom Friedman. It is a banal kind of evil, wrapped up in a twisted and unquestioning belief in our own moral superiority. It’s the exact same kind of dangerous thinking that convinced Mohamed Atta and his 18 buddies that they were in the right to take a legitimate gripe over American support for the Mubarak and Saudi regimes and escalate into the murder of 3000 innocent Americans. Hey, if I lived in Egypt I would be opposed to Mubarak and pissed at America, too. But I wouldn’t murder anyone over it. I certainly wouldn’t murder totally innocent people over it. But I’m not an asshole like Tom Friedman.
America DID lose its mind after 911. I knew it then and I don’t argue it now.
But an Islamic (sub)culture that thinks its OK to fly planes into buildings is mentally ill. And that culture seemed clearly to be getting more and more sick.
Going wacko in response with Homeland security silliness, wiretaps, torture, and unbound moral license is not just inexcusable, but also just dumb.
But saying, “This won’t stand” is another matter. And deciding how that translates to action is yet another matter.
Taking Iraq to show we can, isn’t in itself a bad idea. I wouldn’t have done it, but sadly we’ll never no for certain what the other options would have brought.
Trying to, and showing we actually can’t take Iraq, and doing it in a way the betrays our values is folly of the highest order.
Sorry, but I choked on that sentence. And not just because it turned out we couldn’t.
I think you need to really examine whatever assumptions you are using to make that statement. Trust me, whatever they are, they’re deeply fucked up.
In truth, I think once you start examining those assumptions you’ll discover two things.
First, you are far from thinking it wouldn’t be a bad idea ‘just because we could’, and you actually have real reasons.
Second, those real reasons have, in retrospect, turned out not to be real reasons but the result of a lot of propaganda you were fed both in the 1990’s about Iraq and since you were a baby about America’s unique morally superior and indispensable role in the world.
“an Islamic (sub)culture that thinks its OK to fly planes into buildings is mentally ill. And that culture seemed clearly to be getting more and more sick.“
And Iraq as a country, and Iraqis as human beings had exactly what to do with that alleged (sub)culture? To put it another way, how does the alleged existence of such a (sub)culture in any way warrant smashing up Iraq?
“He knows the middle east very well“
No he doesn’t. He doesn’t know it at all, and the only reason he is able to create the illusion that he DOES know it is because the overwhelming majority of Americans know even less than he does about it and will buy whatever anyone says about it as long as they use an authoritative tone and drop a few big, recognizable names.
Has anyone EVER bothered to ask anyone with any real credentials about Friedman’s reputation among, say, academics in the field? As a Middle East expert he is a laughing stock.
viewed through the lens of the msm, and the cw that was widely, and blindly accepted by the majority of this country, that could be construed as a reasonable statement.
for anyone familiar with, and opposed to dim sons ascension to the
thronepresidency, it is an insult.there were a lot of people out here who saw through all the hype: the faux compassionate conservatism, drinking buddy crap long before 9.11 and the debacle we’re now faced with…who were familiar with his history and track record, and who tried to warn people about this incompetent boob back in 1999, well before any of this hyper nationalism and the pnac garbage surfaced.
we got called a lot of names then, by friedman and others.
freidman, etal, got it wrong, for all the wrong reasons, and too damned many people have died and suffered irreparable harm because he and his ilk, and 70% of this country had neither the brains nor the spine to oppose it. the rules didn’t change, they just ignored them…created their own reality, as it were. [see suskind]
he deserves no more slack than scottie, wofie, rummy, powell, rice, tenet, cheney, etal…they carried the water for 6 years and they all have a share of the complicity for the results.
frankly,l have no need for apologists, or the bs rationales of people who were on the wrong side of the issue, and now seek to justify their stupidity via the avenue of hind sight…too goddamned bad!
how hard is it to understand that war is a last resort, when the threat is imminent and there is no other way.
Imagine if FDR had attacked Mexico because the Japanese attacked Perl Harbor. That is what we did.
It was a military version of a lynch mob and Friedman was at the head of that lynching. He is a moral monster and if we don’t expose him as such more people will die.
“And he is no lightweight when it come to the middle east.“
Say WHAT?! This guy doesn’t even qualify as a lightweight. He is a complete phony when it comes to the Middle East. He doesn’t know his ass from his elbow, and even if he KNEW something about it, he will never get it. He is too much of a western supremacist ever to understand the Middle East even IF he knew anything about it.
“Few know/knew it better.“
LOOOOOOL! Man, I will say this. Friedman sure does an effective snow job on an awful lot of people.
As for the rest of what you wrote, you would do well to think about the fact that you are not talking here about some kind of exotic animal that needs to be subdued. What you are really talking about is real, actual human beings who are far more like you in the most fundamentally human ways than they are different from you, who are at least as deserving of respect and consideration as you are, and who do not need you blasting your way into their lives to “fix” things. Your problem is that you have too much in common with Tom Friedman in your way of thinking.
And finally, you seem to think the real problem with all this is not that the whole thing was wrong in every single aspect from the moment of conception, but that Bush just didn’t do it right. You could not be more incorrect. The very idea was wrong to begin with, and no matter how they did it it would have been a disaster, because there is simply no right way to do something that is fundamentally wrong.
“Bush did not do whatever was necessary to ensure is succeeded“
There is absolutely nothing Bush or anyone else could do that would make this criminal enterprise succeed in any respect or to any degree.
My final word – for now:
Thomas Friedman is not just a moral monster, he is also an ignoramus dressed up as an expert.
منتديات–شات–دردشة–دردشه–شات
كتابي–دردشة كتابية–شات
صوتي–دردشة صوتية–شات
سعودي–دردشة سعودية–شات
الغلا–منتديات الغلا–تحميل
العاب–برامج كمبيوتر–كتب
مجانية–برامج جوال–مقاطع
بلوتوث–مسجات–نغمات–ثيمات–العاب
جوال موبايل–تصاميم–هكر–صور–صور
انمي–اخبار الفن–صور
فنانين–افلام–افلام
اجنبية–اناشيد–صور
سيارات–كاس امم اوروبا–تحميل
اهداف–محمد–سياحة
وسفر–منتدى النقاش–منتديات
عامة–منتديات اسلامية–صور
كاريكاتير–منتدى تعارف–نكت–الغاز–خواطر–قصائد–شعر–قصص–اساطير–روايات–حكم
وامثال–ازياء–منتديات
عروس–المطبخ–اطفال–طب–علم
النفس–منال العالم–مركز
تحميل–دليل مواقع–1–2–3–4–5–6–7–8–9–برق–19–p1–p2–p3–p4–78–71–20–21–59–60–58–61–67–53–56–9–a9–a1–a8–a12—a15–a16–a18–ماسنجر–صور
بنات–51–26–a–b–c–d–e–e–f–g–h–j–l–29–43–47–13–6–dd–p18–f8–12–62–65–49l–f11–f86–مسجات
حب–مسجات عتاب–مسجات
شوق–مسجات مقالب–مسجات
نكت–مسجات حلوة–صور
حب–صور بنات–شات
بنات–دردشة بنات–شات
الحب–دردشة الحب–دردشة
كويت 25–اغاني هيفاء وهبي–دردشة
بنت السعودية–عمرو خالد–ناصر
الفراعنة–صور نانسي عجرم–ياسر
القحطاني–شات بنات عوانس–نغمات
نوكيا–قصص–هشام
الراشد–تامر حسني–العاب–