There’s a lot of talk about reconciliation and how long it is going to take to put things back together so that we have a united party. I could write a really long piece about the subject, but I’m tired. So I just want to focus on two points. First, we have the ravings of Taylor Marsh, which is really representative of a subset of the Democratic Party coalition.
Could you be more out of touch? Seriously. Have you not talked to any Hillary Clinton supporters, read their emails in your inbox?
For 4 lousy delegates? How small are you people? Could you not understand what was swirling enough to allow Clinton her due in Michigan? Four lousy delegates?
You have no idea what you’ve done. The fury you have unleashed. Your arrogance is topped only by your ignorance and the sheer stupidity of this “compromise,” which sends a message that you just don’t get it. Oh, and by the way, you’ve also likely just thrown the 2008 election.
Taking myself out of the equation, as well as my support for Clinton which is unending, and to encapsulte the carnage wrought by Saturday’s idiocy, you have simply given Hillary’s supporters the reason they were craving. Outraged already, many of Hillary’s supporters were waiting for a reason to raise a ruckus, and you just gave them one. A righteous one. They were already screaming for Clinton to go to Denver. Now the decibel level is ear shattering.
“McCain will be the next president…”
…”Two winners in 40 years.”Over 4 delegates?
Look, let’s call this what it is: insanity.
I don’t really know if Ms. Marsh believes what she’s writing or not. But if she doesn’t, and she’s willing to feed other’s insanity with this tripe, and she actually cares about her reproductive rights, then that qualifies as its own form of insanity.
Encouraging this kind of grudge-holding with this measly set of lies is dangerous and, in this case, it’s self-destructive. We all know that the rules committee just handed Clinton five net delegates from Michigan after promising Obama that the contest would not count. Even taking his name off the ballot wasn’t enough to protect him from this injustice. And he had the votes on the committee to get an even split of the delegates and turned it down. Why did he turn it down? Well…one interpretation is that he turned it down as an act of magnanimity, so that there would be a larger margin in favor of the decision, and as a gesture of good will. The other interpretation is that if he went along with calling the primary valid in any way, the Clintons would insist on counting the popular vote. But they’re doing that anyway. Taylor has inverted the entire meaning of the decision on Michigan. Why are the Clintons throwing a tantrum over 4 lousy delegates? Why did Obama have to suffer any disadvantage at all after the Rules Committee promised him that the primary would not count?
So…this is raving insanity on Taylor’s part that just fans the flames of resentment in a mean and dishonest way. Yet, I’m not all that concerned. First, I really believe that we are in a realigning election. And a realigning election is, by definition, an election where the coalitions flip or change around. Older white women have been a solid Democratic constituency in most of the country for a long time. If this election finds them voting for McCain it will also find tons of economic and foreign policy Republicans, independents, young voters, and Hispanics voting for Obama. Black turnout will be historic.
But, second, it is a long, long time until November. And when we get to late October, people are going to be thinking a lot more about the pain and frustration of the last eight years than they will be about the pain and frustration of the last six months. People will want a totally clean break with the Bush administration and McCain doesn’t provide that. Most Democrats will come home.
Now I don’t want to make it seem like I’m welcoming older white women to vote for McCain or that I don’t care about their concerns. There are a few racists that I’d like to show the door, but they’re a special case. For most of Clinton’s staunchest supporters, they just like their candidate and/or have a strong emotional investment in seeing a female president in their lifetime. They need someone that has been on their side in this campaign…someone like Taylor Marsh…to talk them down and help them realize that Obama won this nomination fair and square. Yes, he had a few lucky breaks. Yes, he mastered the procedure and got more delegates per vote and per dollar spent. Yes, he had certain advantages because he’s a man. Yes, the press was at times unfair to Clinton. But Obama didn’t cheat, he didn’t suppress any votes, and he was actually unfairly penalized when Florida and Michigan’s delegates were seated after Obama was promised that they wouldn’t count. That he wasn’t penalized enough to sway the election, that he couldn’t be penalized enough to lose the election, is not a mark against the legitimacy of his victory.
Obama played rough at times in this election and he got away with it. But politics ain’t beanbag and no one plays tougher than the Clintons. That is part of what their supporters like about them and makes them believe they can win the general election. So it shouldn’t be a big concern that Obama knows how to play rough, too. That he does it with no fingerprints just points up his high skill level. People like Taylor Marsh should be telling her readers these things, but she’s telling them the opposite. And it isn’t going to serve any good purpose. No one is going to listen to me. But they’ll listen to Hillary and they’ll listen to Hillary’s supporters that have been fighting for her tooth and nail.
I hope they do so because I want these voters in the Democratic coalition where they belong. Most of them, anyway.
Heh, is the link to Taylor Marsh purposefully broken so as to shield our virgin eyes?
Must have been a Freudian thing.
The flip side of her rant is that she’s throwing a temper tantrum over, in her words, “[f]our lousy delegates”.
That’s what I said.
Taylor Marsh is an invention. Find out who paid for publishing her book, paid for her column in the LA Times, paid for her radio show, hell, who pays her damned rent, and you’ll know more about the political process than you could ever imagine.
I give up. Who is paying for Taylor Marsh?
Ah, so you did. Sorry, read the diary too fast.
At least according to what you quoted in the first words of the second paragraph.
Oh, hell. We and our anti-Clinton hubris have done it now.
A plain-old “ruckus” would be enough to deal with, but the freakin’ DNC’s gone and made sure we’ll face a righteous ruckus! Taylor said so!
I think we’d better grab our butts with both hands (each to his or her own, of course) and kiss ’em goodbye, because once they unleash Harriet Christian on you, you’ll wish you’d had the chance to vote for John Sidney Magoo!
Or, I could be overreacting.
Taylor Marsh is as big a loon as Ickles, McAuliff and Begala. Ahe is rabting cause she knows her blogging career is on the way out as fast as Hillary’s campaign. She knows all she has to look forward to is cribbage and cocktails with the drunk from DNC yesterday.
For the Hillaryites, it’s all about THEIR FEELINGS. I’ve checked out the commentary enough to know that they aren’t inclined to discuss policy or process or issues. They want most of all to express rage. I don’t think that many of them actually support Hillary– they have just chosen her to be the symbol, the spokesperson for whatever they are pissed off about.
Your comment matches well the observations I’ve made (and commented on at times). The rage of the hardcore supporters is awesome! It’s as though a lifetime of perceived second best status, disenfranchisement, mistreatment by men, missed chances, betrayal, failure to succeed have all been wrapped up in a neat package exemplified by Clinton. She’s been their last, best hope to get even — and if she doesn’t win? Seems it’s about much more than a candidate or an election.
I guess I am just a cynic. I go to the Marsh site almost every day, just to get the ‘other view’. I don’t really even consider her a democrat, let alone a progressive. Her site is not very much different than a republican site. Everything HER candidate does is great, everything ‘the other guy’ does is a disaster. All reality is twisted.
I am struck by this;
Her whole deal is the ‘electability’ issue. Just like a republican, she paints Obama as an ‘elite’, who is out of touch with ‘normal’ people. But what makes Obama ‘un-normal’? What EXACTLY makes him, in her opinion, ‘unelectable’? There is no great distance between the candidates policy-wise, at least not openly stated. So what EXACTLY is it that she can’t support about Obama? Why EXACTLY is his church (now ex-church) such a liability to her? She dodges exactly why, simply relying on republican talking points, but I will tell you why he is unacceptable to her.
Because he is black. He is unacceptable to her because he is the wrong color. He is a ‘upstart’ black man who won’t wait his turn. His church is unacceptable because it is predominately a black church, filled with angry black folk. Marsh does not believe a black man can be elected in this country, THAT is her bottom line.
She has repeatedly stated she will NOT actively campaign for Obama, she says that would make her a hypocrite. But she WILL campaign against McCain. Why could that be?
There is only one reason for a supposed democrat to make such a statement.
nalbar
I’m no expert on Marsh (and that fact alone helps me sleep better at night), but I think it’s probably more that Obama isn’t Hillary. I don’t think she’s flaming racist, I just think she thinks Obama had the nerve to step in front of Hillary and deny her the nomination, which to her is inexcusable — and you touched on that point. The racial stuff for them is the elephant in the room, so it’s going to get referenced as long as he stands in Clinton’s way (or as long as she remains in the race and/or it takes them to get over her loss). But as tensions rise and reality sets in, race will come to the surface. They’ve got a lot of blame to spread around: it’s democrats, it’s black democrats, black journalists, loud black preachers, latte-slurping red staters, liberals, intellectuals, rich white people, sexist, boutique-frequenting non-hispanics, blabbityblahblabblab… Anybody will do except Sen. ‘Iron Lady’ herself and her piss-poor campaign. And let’s not forget her cynical, calculating Iraq vote, too. And Kyl-Lieberman, and everything else. Just reseaching and looking at a list of all her screw-ups would give my eyeballs hemorrhoids.
The electability thing is just an angle, I think. Clinton likely has certain strengths there that Obama does not, but he has his electability strengths many of which are weaknesses for Clinton. So that’s just something for them to argue, red herring-like.
I’m fairly sure Marsh at least gets that many of the policy positions common to both Obama and Clinton are more important than one’s support for any particular candidate; she also gets that McCain is on the opposite side of many of those positions (unlike some of Clinton’s ‘Count Every Vote’ supporters — Harriet Christian being one), but for her, I guess it’s really about Hillary. I’m not even sure how much the ‘woman president’ mentality plays into it for her. Then again, I could be ass-backwards about all of this.
BooMan or somebody else here probably knows a lot more about Marsh than I ever will. Personally speaking, there’s just something vaguely unsettling about her, so I even avoided her stuff at HuffPo.
Excellent post Sprocket. I also find something ‘vaguely unsettling’ about her. I will cut her some slack and NOT call her a ‘flaming racist’, but the difference between a ‘flaming racist’ and a person who feeds them is slim indeed.
We will see more and more of this as Nov. comes. That is expected from the Republican side. It’s what they do. But from supposed Demos is beyond the pale.
nalbar
A handful of blog owners and posters? The “200” that stormed the meeting and acted like jackasses on Saturday?
They make crazy claims with NO evidence of millions of disaffected Democrats ready to desert. In fact polling would indicate the opposite.
I believe Atrios said “it’s not about you”.
Oh, man, I just knew if Hillary got into this race it was going to be a disaster. And it is!
But I still don’t see why Obama didn’t just call for all the MI and FL delegates to be seated when it wouldn’t matter anyway. (Especially since the MI uncommitted delegates would probably have gone for Obama anyway.) With so many FL and MI Dems seething about being told their votes don’t count, it would have seemed a magnanimous gesture and made them all feel better.
And I think that’s what the Clintonistas are so pissed off at – it feels to them like a smack in the face. If it had actually mattered, they’d probably find it easier to understand, but since it didn’t, it feels like spite. And people just find it really hard to forgive people who do stuff that they seem to have done just to spite you.
I just desperately want this whole strength-sapping exercise to be over so we can all spend our energy attacking Republicans again.
My limited understanding is that according to DNC rules neither MI or FL could be given all delegates. They HAD to be split in half.
Obama agreed to give FL everything, with no conditions, so in essence he DID agree (or at least did not disagree) with a full seating in FL even though it would never happen.
Obama probably would not do the same with MI because if the MI results were sanctioned Clinton could claim the popular vote, and use it as a weapon. He was stuck. Clinton (and the media) would claim the votes anyway, and he would look weak if he capitulated on both states. So it was lose/lose on MI.
So he took the best result; he gave up FL and then put his foot down on MI, showing EVERYONE who really controlled the party. It’s all pretty passive-aggressive.
nalbar
IMHO, it wouldn’t have made a damn bit of difference unless it gave Clinton the nomination. They won’t be pleased with anything short of that. If they got all the delegates and still didn’t win, they’d just have moved on to another argument (like the “popular vote”) or something else they made up. Glad Obama drew a line in the sand. It’s time.
that’s no answer at all though since many people didn’t even go to the polls in MI & FL because they already knew that the vote wouldn’t be counted… them’s the rules, and many voters realized it was a waste of time. so how do we even know who won, or would win, those two states?
Hillary has turned her campaign into a feminist cause so she can manipulate people’s emotions. It’s what the right-wingers have successfully done for years and it’s working for her. If she was truly worried about women’s issues, she wouldn’t risk destroying the party that champions women’s causes.
This is all about her, one individual woman’s ambitions, and not a cause for all women. She just keeps fanning the emotions so people won’t recognize the difference.
BO supporters keep coming back, over and over, to a “promise” that was made to BO, after MI and FL voted, that their votes didn’t count. And they keep coming back, over and over, to the comment that HRC made–to the effect that the vote didn’t count.
However, there is no basis in the rules/bylaws for the RB Committee [or whoever] to have even made that “promise.” And for BO [or any candidate] to pressure the RB Committee to make such a promise implies that he knew there were potentially other possibilities related to the final outcome.
The fact remains, someone with power in the DNC [not sure which committe or body…] decided that a refusal to seat any delegates for MI and FL would be too politically perilous for the dem party. The DNC decided that MI and FL should be allowed to seat some delegates. The DNC has the power within its rules to make such a decision. The DNC has the power within its rules to provide for different levels of punishment.
Once the decision to seat delegates was reached, all the past issues, such as comments made by HRC, the apparently nonbinding “promises” made to BO, and the pact that some candidates signed pre-Iowa/NH, became irrelevant to further action. The only remaining decision was to determine how many delegates to seat and what type of vote they would have.
It is not within the RB committee power to assign uncommitted delegates to a candidate, regardless of how the uncommitted delegates came to be. There is no divining provided for in the rules.
BO should have simply allowed the delegates to go to the convention undecided, and allowed them to vote how they wished.
At this point, apparently, BO and his supporters thought it was far more important that he declare victory once he met the new delegate threshhold than to respect the rules and risk the party’s image in voting matters.
I’m not even an HRC supporter [I merely prefer her over BO], and IMO, what the RB com did amounts to nothing less than vote theft.
Furthermore, this decision may badly taint the party. We’re supposed to be the fair party, the party that believes in voting rights, the party that wants accurate vote counts.
I can only hope that this is inside baseball; I don’t want vote theft associated with dems.
Furthermore, aren’t you BO supporters getting tired flinging words like “raving insanity” at HRC supporters. TM is not insane, and you know that.
BO should have simply allowed the delegates to go to the convention undecided, and allowed them to vote how they wished.
That wasn’t Obama’s decision. That decision was made by the Michigan Democratic Party.