My old friend, Larry Johnson, knows about manipulating elections from his training with the Central Intelligence Agency. He doesn’t want Obama to win the nomination for whatever reason, and he’s in full propaganda mode to do everything he can to frighten the superdelegates. He claims to have a shocking tape of Michelle Obama ranting in some anti-white diatribe. He promises to produce this tape tomorrow at 9am.
From what I understand, it is a tape of Michelle Obama criticizing the Bush administration.
How you’d write it:
Why did Bush cut folks off medicaid?
Why did Bush let New Orleans drown?
Why did Bush do nothing about Jena?
Why did Bush put us in Iraq for no reason?
How you’d say it:
Why’d he cut folks off medicaid?
Why’d he let New Orleans drown?
Why’d he do nothing about Jena?
Why’d he put us in Iraq for no reason?
How Larry Johnson wants you to hear it:
Whitie cut folks off medicaid?
Whitie let New Orleans drown?
Whitie do nothing about Jena?
Whitie put us in Iraq for no reason?
I’m going to be honest with you. Both SusanHu and Larry Johnson have been friends of mine. They have both done a lot for me and I am grateful and indebted to them. Any issues I’ve had with their activities in this election I have kept private. I haven’t visited their site in four months because I found it too personally painful to read what they were writing and I did not want to be tempted to respond. I thought I owed them that. But loyalty can only go so far. If they publish this allegation tomorrow, I will no longer speak with them. And I say that with great sorrow.
This election has ruined a lot of friendships. I have tried hard not to let it ruin mine. But smears of this type are unforgivable. I have been forebearing. Perhaps, in retrospect, I have been too forebearing. That’s all I say. This is too painful to me.
Dear Booman,
I share your feelings. Because I was a contributor to Larry Johnson’s blog and considered him and SusanHu friends as well. They were good to me also. And it was really painful to watch what became of his blog and to have to resign as a result.
I don’t understand their animosity to Obama. Or why they would want to destroy the Democratic parties chances in November against McCain. It’s painful and sad.
You don’t understand their animosity? You can’t understand why supposed democrats would prefer McCain over a democrat?
Perhaps it is easier to see if you DON’T ‘know’ them.
nalbar
Why are you angry with me?
Larry Johnson started his blog in support of Valerie Plame and against the Bush administration. He’s been very outspoken against the Bushies. He and Susan said they’d support the Democratic candidate before the race came down to Clinton and Obama. So, no I don’t understand their animosity. It’s senseless.
Since you were posting there, can you tell me why Uppity has the same email than Susan Hu. Does she use several Id’s?
Actually I think it was Uppity Woman
You know soon after I left, the entire readership changed at No Quarter. They got a whole new slew of contributors too, all of them anti-Obama.
I visited NQ after the RBC decision, to see if they were finally giving up the constant “hate Obama” barrage. But no, Larry Johnson had posted something about reporting Obama death threats to the Secret Service. While both Susan and Larry were continuing their outrageous verbal assaults on Obama.
the reason I asked, was because i have been going there to raise some hell, and I guess I got under their skin. Someone started posting under my name, and made it seem that I was out of my mind (actually it was pretty funny, if you have a sense of humor)until I threaten to go to the FBI’s section for internet fraud. And I still suspect it was Susan.
That’s kinda funny. Good for you raising hell!
Since someone did that to her once and nearly ruined her life, it would be pretty awful if she turned around and did that to you.
I didn’t know that. And yes it wouldbe, although nothing she does doesn’t surprise me anymore.
.
By Larry Johnson on May 30, 2008 at 2:45 PM in Current Affairs
This does NOT apply to 99% of you, however, a couple of lost souls have posted threats against Barack Obama on this blog. Be forewarned, I will turn all threats over to the Secret Service (they are investigating two at this moment). While I don’t believe Barack is qualified to be President, nothing justifies or warrants a death threat. Please play nice.
"But I will not let myself be reduced to silence."kinda reminds me of the warning label on a pack of cigarettes—-cancer sticks..about as effective
Does he not realize his language incites that sort of hatred?
Of course he does. He’s just trying to protect his own liability.
Larry is scum of the earth.
Exactly, the language on his blog is inciting hatred, which could lead to violence.
Don’t know. I quit there months ago and haven’t gone back to read the comments. So no idea who Uppity is, if Uppity has a shared email with Susan or what that means?
Uppity is a new contributor who told me that I was no longer welcomed there.
She’s a bitter woman who holds Obama responsible for every rejection suffered by women in the history of the US.
Maybe it is Susan. Pitiful.
Hi Cee!
Hi Cee and Leslie. This is Shirin, in case you have not figured it out already.
Hi Shirin,
Yes, I figured that out. Your writing style gave you away–excellent as always.
Cee and Shirin,
I have bad news. Remember PrchrLady? She died Saturday, May 31st.
No way, Leslie! That is awful. She was such a kind and thoughtful person. I hope she will rest in peace now.
Yeah, thanks Hurria. She and I were becoming good friends. She had 4 kids and innumerable “adopted” kids. She was very kind. I’m really sad right now.
Her family will be holding a funeral service June 5 at 11 a.m. at:
Gendernalik Funeral Home, Inc.
35259 Twenty-Three Mile Road
New Baltimore, Michigan
48047
In lieu of flowers, she would’ve wished that friends donate to the Michigan Human Society.
Oh, you’d need her name if you want to send flowers…email me, OK. I’ll keep an eye out.
Best,
Leslie
Leslie, I would love to send my regards and condolences, but would prefer to make a contribution, and just send a card to the family. I will e-mail you tonight.
The last I heard she was battling several rounds of pneumonia that simply would not clear up. I am really surprised too. She will be sadly missed. If I remember correctly she also had a son in the military from duty in Iraq with PTSD. She sure was a well rounded person to know. Marlene was her first name. I am missing you all over there. and now look here you all are. Thanks for coming over here to share this Lilly pad with me. hugs to each of you three.
Hi to Leslie, Cee, and Shirin (or Hurria). This is Delia from the late lamented No Quarter when it was actually worth something. I wanted to post to all of you earlier today but I didn’t have an account here and the site was jammed until now. I’m very sorry to hear about Prcherldy.
I always enjoyed all of your posts.
Some people mistakenly feel “the enemy of my enemy is my friend.”
I think Larry and Susan have clearly proven that the enemy of my enemy may still be very much an enemy in their own right.
I NEVER trusted Larry. I DID trust SusanHu because I had met her through the Dean campaign. But I saw what she did with that anti-Muslim cartoon here and was disgusted.
I had been on a private email list of Susan’s that was increasingly nasty, unfairly, to Obama. People I used to have respect for were defending Susan’s absolutely false, Rovian smears against Obama at No Quarter.
When I realized I was essentially consorting with the enemy, I quit the group, broke all ties, and never looked back.
I don’t have loyalties to people. I have loyalties to principles – truth, justice, compassion. Those who live their lives honoring those principles will be my lifelong friends. Those who don’t, will not. It’s that simple.
It’s no fun finding out the people you thought you knew have this ugly side. But it’s happened to me so many times over the years I’m usually only surprised and pleased at the few who really don’t seem to have that.
I don’t have loyalties to people. I have loyalties to principles – truth, justice, compassion. Those who live their lives honoring those principles will be my lifelong friends. Those who don’t, will not. It’s that simple.
Yeah, but it gets complicated when friends seem to diverge from those principles–if they’ve been friends for a long time, it can take a while to perceive, a while to accept that they have changed, and a while to realize that the friendship must end. It can be like the denial stage in a grieving process. Anger, bargaining, and depression can all occur too.
True. But when they diverge that dramatically, it gets a heck of a lot easier.
Thanks Real History Lisa,
What you describe is pretty much my story at NQ too. And why it was so painful to see what was happening. I tried to talk to them about it, well Susan at least, but to no avail.
You know Susan told me she’d probably campaign for Obama if he won the nomination. Huh???
Let’s hope not. That kind of help we REALLY don’t need!!!
She just can’t stand to be out of the limelight. But she dug the hole by herself.
“I don’t understand their animosity to Obama.”
I’m think it’s racism. I’ve seen them post a black panther video with the speaker saying we have to kill all the white people, and trying to link it to Obama. Now they’re saying Michelle is on camera saying kill whitey. I’ve seen some disturbing caricatures of Obama there. I don’t think they’d be treating Edwards like this if he had edged out Clinton. It’s because Obama’s black. Racism is ugly.
Oh, rest assured, they’d have gone after Edwards. Edwards wouldn’t have offered the easy point –race — to begin, but Edwards would’ve allowed them to hijack black folks and treat it as “The white male is stomping on all of us!” You would’ve heard vicious stories about Edwards being gay, elitist, a serial adulterer, etc. Basically all the same things you’ve heard about Obama, just without the racial dynamic playing the same way, and with the emphasis on other issues.
Edwards is rich, and as you know, rich people can’t possibly care about poor people.
Unless they’re Republicans.
Or something.
While I was an NQ contributor, Larry Johnson repeatedly disowned racist remarks and banned anyone who made them. His blog is a nightmare now.
I agree in that I really don’t see Larry’s (or Susan’s) motivation being racism in any way, shape, or form. That does not mean they would not use racist allegations, though. I will never again underestimate, though, how low they are willing to dive in the cesspool they have created in order to achieve their ends, and would put nothing past them.
I don’t think it’s racism so much as it’s:
I think many of these women would have voted Republican if the Republicans were running a woman for President.
My read on the sitation, I readily admit I could be wrong or overgeneralizing.
More than anything, I think it’s just anger over the fact that many of them believed it was Hillary’s turn, and that Obama thus stole it from her. Even saying that it’s about electing a woman for them is, I think, too broad a description. I think they perceived Hillary as being the woman destined to hold the office first among women. Racism has a lot to do with the reaction for some of them, but I sense many just want to make racist comments in order to say something they believe will be hurtful to Obama and his supporters.
But what is the difference between a racist and those that enable them?
I don’t ask to get an answer. I ask because, in my opinion, that question will be THE question of the next few months. People like Marsh will hide behind clever phrasing and selective posting. But it’s all code. Code that can be easily dismissed, up to a certain point. But eventually they will be boxed in, and their rhetoric will take them places they don’t want to be.
nalbar
As Father Pfleger said “OH DAMN”
you don’t read that quote cited as racist?
I don’t know. I think there’s a difference between being a racist and letting yourself stoop to using coded racist rhetoric to court racists or borderline racists. Hillary’s done some of that, and I don’t believe she is racist. Both ugly. Questionable which is worst.
Hi Leslie,
Ditto from me, although I was only a commenter. It is too sad to see what has happened over there.
They seem as deranged as the people protesting at the DNC yesterday.
At this point, alea jacta est. Obama is the nominee, and as far as I’m concerned, any vote that isn’t cast for Obama, any action that tries to take him down as the nominee, anything related to this election that doesn’t get him elected is a step toward electing McCain, no matter how noble the intention might be.
there’s a main-belt asteroid named Rubicon, so i decided to check political astrology using Sabian Symbols (sometimes they tell an interesting story):
{Ascendant} Aquarius 7° In a fantasy presented by the children of an exclusive school a huge egg cracks to reveal a cherubic miss + {#22996 De Boo} Aquarius 27° In the quiet of the afternoon in the cool of an art connoisseur’s library is an old pottery bowl with fresh violets + {#6615 Plutarchos} Pisces 30° Nathaniel Hawthorne’s conception of the Great Stone Face has been brought to fruition in a huge mountain carving + {#334 Chicago} Aries 21° A pugilist flushed with life and strength is entering the ring + {#3130 Hillary} Aries 23° A woman clothed in the delicate tints of early summer is seen carrying a heavy and valuable yet veiled burden + {#18458 Caesar} Gemini 28° A man is leaving a courtroom with mixed feelings of relief & determination; he has just passed through bankruptcy + {#11302 Rubicon} Scorpio 12° A brilliant assembly of dignitaries is seen on a highly polished dance floor; it is an important embassy ball + {#8603 Senator} Scorpio 28° A pageant of fairyland is made visible to mortal eyes; the king of the little people is welcomed to his domain.
Time: 11:57:57 PM ET, Location: Philadelphia, PA
{#1376 Michelle} Pisces 16° In the sacred quiet and afternoon half-lights of the museum a young art student drinks in pure inspiration + {#37452 Spirit} Taurus 8° A sleigh with all the suggestive warmth of the winter season speeds over ground on which the snow is yet to fall + {#39382 Opportunity} Gemini 3° An etching or rare beauty displays a charming court life at the garden of the Tuileries under Louis XIV.
This is it?
This is what they’ve got??
THIS is the big bombshell that’s supposed to blow the doors off of Obama’s candidacy?
You know of course that there are going to be people who will fall for it. And that of course is not the saddest part — the saddest part is that people who are purportedly Democrats would do this in the first place.
Not only will they do it, they’re timing it to be the last story to hit the wires before the final primaries.
My sister used to be a receptionist at a TV station in Montana. She told me once that some woman came in demanding to see the news director, saying she had evidence of some kind of secret government conspiracy that needed to go out on the air.
My sister asked to see her evidence. It was a Publishers Clearing House mailing or something similar.
This is ridiculous. I hope Johnson is prepared to be laughed out of polite society from here on out.
I dunno. You do have some of the survivalist segment out there in Montana, so it might have been worth it for the ratings. 🙂
Heh. Funny, although the survivalists tend to live in the western half of the state (in and west of the mountains) and she lives out in the Yellowstone Valley.
Yes, western Montana can be a little frightening. Nice people, but, erm, isolated. I have some family up there. Gorgeous state, but not my cup of tea on the whole. I could probably get used to Yellowstone Valley.
could have been grassroots Clearing House of Environmental Wastes? created in response to the poisoning of the Love Canal community? or later…?
My sentiments too Omir. If this is the best they can do, let them do it. I mean if this is supposed to somehow help Clinton, shouldn’t they have used this ammunition before now?
Well, Leslie, haven’t you seen all the crap showing that, based on four or five degrees of separation, that Obama has a close and important relationship with Saddam (hint: on that basis my relationship with Saddam is MUCH closer, though I will not go into the details in public!), and Obama is also apparently also a good friend to terrorism based on his knowing someone who was part of the Weather Underground when Obama was a pre-adolescent. It was to a significant degree over fantasies like this that they lost me completely.
What a loss for the blogosphere to see those to self-destruct and destroy their site in this way.
It’s a murder suicide. She can’t win, but they want to assure he can’t either.
I was interested to see what this type of insanity has done for the traffic levels of No Quarter, Taylor Marsh, TalkLeft, etc. Their traffic has soared through the last couple of months but they still all have very low readership. The increases won’t last long though.
See what I mean at this Alexa comparison page. Put any A-list site in the next comparison URL box and see how much overall influence they have out there in the grand scheme of the blogosphere. Not so much, but their increases over the last few months are noticeable.
Perhaps there is a method to their madness at each of the loony-bin-magnet sites. But it won’t last.
In anecdotal terms, it would seem to me that the rabidly pro-Hillary sites are dwindling in number as well as influence in general, which increasingly stands to reason. And for Clinton’s loyal supporters, fewer friendly sites mean higher traffic for the ones that are left. The page views would suggest they’re not very engaged, though, as you say.
What’s interesting is that No Quarter, the most vituperative of the three you ran, is showing a growing dominance, with Talk Left previously the unrivaled leader, tanking. NQ’s tactics are putting them on par with Talk Left at this point, the data show. The most virulently anti-Obama crowd is taking their rancid bait, and rewarding them for their efforts.
Nice job, although I’d rather not have to worry about what those guys are up to, but this is just a reminder it’s not over until November. How Johnson doesn’t come out full-bore for McCain after all this, I don’t know, unless they can get Clinton in somehow.
Whether Larry comes out full bore for McCain or not would depend on his reasons for thinking Obama is unelectable–if it’s because he thinks others won’t vote for him (e.g. due to racism, inexperience, or whatever), he might not. If HE personally believes those reasons, then he probably will. I haven’t read his stuff since he left the frog pond, so I don’t know.
People do read The National Enquirer and look at train wrecks.
And what a bunch of dust bunnies he was chasing. Revisit that soothing little 451 now…
I’m sure Larry is out selling ads, before the high-flow of traffic to his site. When, he’s proven a fake and a lose…what’s left. If he had a truly news-worthy tape he would’ve already posted-it. Otherwise its a stunt at the last minute.
The number of comments there has gone through the roof, but most of the prominent commenters from before have fled, and it is an entirely new crowd.
I doubt the site will ever return to the valuable, quality site it was – sad.
Ugh. I just visited Johnson’s blog and this alleged tape was released to Faux News. Geraldo interviewed Roger Stone about the video, without airing it. You can watch the Geraldo interview Stone at Johnson’s blog here.
You won’t believe the NQ comments below Susan’s post about the video. I’m ashamed to have ever been affiliated with NQ. I thought we were working together to stop the Bushies and to stop a repeat through McCain. Oh, it’s horrible.
Sorry, I misspoke. The Johnson’s alleged video has not been released to Fox News as far as I know. Roger Stone said that an unnamed news organization had the video, however.
Geraldo had on a Democratic strategist Brown who countered Roger Stone pretty well. Brown said [I’m paraphrasing], this is a GOP strategy. This is what the GOP does. When they can’t debate the issues, they launch personal attacks.
Roger Stone? LOLOLOL!
OMG. I just looked at the blog and found this comment:
And SusanUnPC, as a fellow Clinton supporter, I would implore you to remember that this Roger Stone is the same asshole who formed the anti-Hillary 527, C.U.N.T.- Citizens United, Not Timid.
OMG. They are using HIM?
Profiled in the New Yorker? Pumped Roger? Ha. Gosh, and Jerry, too. Wow.
It must be painful; my condolences.
However, a long time back, I thought he had pertinent stuff to say from a spook’s perspective. In the last few months, he reminds me of the guy who thinks he’s a cop because he does unarmed security patrols of 7-11s.
Like Taylor Marsh, his cred’s gone through the basement floor.
What does the tape actually say? Or do we not know yet?
Only two of those things might relate to race. Jena obviously does.
As far as New Orleans goes, let’s be honest: Whether the administration’s failure to react was race-related or not — and I tend to think it was to at least a small degree — it’s very easy for me to understand why so many suspect a racial dynamic.
As far as Johnson’s psychotic behavior goes, well, what can you say?
No no. They want you to think she said “Whitey” not “Why’d he”.
You’ve got to be fucking kidding me.
Nope.
Are you serious? If there were such a tape, Obama Campaign would know about it. Just as they have viewed ALL THE TAPES from TUCC.
This man is going down as a laughing stock, and better yet, he better have a good attorney in tow, if that video was altered in any way.
That’s my reaction: “You got to be fucking kidding me,” as in, “HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA!”
A very good attorney even if the alleged tape isn’t altered but is portrayed as something it’s not.
But they’re fucking morons. Last time I checked, Michelle Obama wasn’t running for president.
Yeah, but look at the uproar that Wright caused, and he was only Obama’s pastor, not his spouse. Guilt by association is alive and well in American politics. It’s a shame, but Michelle probably needs to be really careful about what she says between now and November (and beyond) lest she give the right more material with which to demonize her. They’ve already gotten a decent start on that, more so than they have with Obama, I think.
but the real news is this:
like they always say….as Puerto Rico goes, so goes the nation.
Larry Johnson is nothing more than someone who is still representing the corporatocracy.
The CIA’s function is to protect the wealth of the very rich through its “irregular” nature as a spy organization. If that requires an assassination, that what the CIA has done. Coups, supporting the vilest regimes around the world. But the dividing line between over there and over here has long ago been crossed. Larry Johnson was given a few “anti-CIA” scraps and sent to live amongst the Left. Now he’s revealed himself, supporting the candidate in the Democratic Party that best represents the interests of the corporatocracy. Racism is a tool. The bizarre uber-gender identification is a ploy. And when H. Clinton couldn’t win, and when her bag of “oppo research” wasn’t enough to sink Obama, it was necessary for Clinton to push her campaign past all reasonability in order to bloody Obama, just like Rush. If Johnson, or Marsh, were really good Democrats they would be pulling together behind the nominee. They aren’t Democrats at all.
Well Johnson is a Republican. Or he was. He may be an Independent now.
I generally have a mixed view of the spooks. It’d be silly to pretend as though they’re all a bunch of Nazis or all a bunch of do-gooders. Most are, I suspect, generally in the latter category, but I’ve known spooks/law-enforcement folks who were a little too close to the former. They have deep authoritarian tendencies. They’re paranoid, sometimes racist, etc. Johnson seems to be one of them.
I don’t know the man personally, of course, and I take Boo at his word that Johnson has (or at least had) redeeming qualities, but the smut he’s been peddling at that site for the last several months shows him, in my view, to be little better than other hate sites of the variety monitored by the SPLC and others.
Yeah, mixed views from me, partly from living not too far from Langley (CIA HQ) for a while and knowing some apparently very decent folks who worked there.
Like others above, I started reading NQ because of the good insights he offered into the Plame case (a case which rightly shocked people all over the political spectrum). Stopped reading bc I got a general sense that “he didn’t like my kind” (Jewish in this case), but that’s not unheard-of in the ol’ progressive blogosphere, and there are lots of other sites to read… (BTW I’m not saying it’s a crisis, just saying what vibe I got.)
Then, what, two years later, I read such a bunch of spite and racist bilge about Michelle Obama on what I’d still figured was a worthwhile site, — I was pretty stunned. Yes, SPLC level. Like, huh[1]????
Sad, and unnecessary, and dangerous. I’ll hope for a great and generous-spirited turnaround. Odd things happen when people get carried away. (And I won’t assume LJ represents all his coworkers, anymore than I would assume that all former Illinoians (?) who live in Westchester County NY are liars! Yes that’s an HRC ref.)
[1] I was disappointed when Joe Wilson endorsed HRC, but it’s understandable that someone who’s worked in so many administrations would go for the whole “insider/ experience” line. And Obama’s original health plan might not be as good as other candidates’, what do I know?? But to say the things that SusanHu did about a candidate’s spouse… stuff that makes no sense at all except if she were recruiting for a white-supremacist organization…
BooMan, good thoughts to you. Like Sen. Obama has suggested, we’ve all got a crazy uncle or friend or grandmother that holds views we find objectionable, and looking at what actions people take does seem like the best rule.
A lot of them are decent people with a militaristic streak. They want to go and get the bad guys, despite the lack of universal agreement in many areas on what, exactly, constitutes a bad guy. It just kind of goes with the territory of intelligence and law enforcement, or at least that’s been my impression from getting to know people in those areas. Some of them are terribly prejudiced, I think, because of what they’re dealing with on a daily basis. It can be a bubble mentality.
Lyre,
We don’t need to make things up to be critical of him.
Larry does not dislike Jews. He doesn’t support the things that Israel does.
Neither do I.
I have noticed that he’s now quite willing to use radical right Jews to attack Obama. They’re foolish.
Larry was rather an American supremacist when it came to international matters – in other words, his point of view always came from an America’s interests first, everyone else stand in line after that – but other than that he seemed an OK sort – until this latest madness hit. I used to take him on, and pretty strongly at times, and he took it more gracefully than some of this more obsequious readers, but in the last several months he seems to have lost his mind.
Just so happens that he had been in Colombia before they illegally crossed the border into Ecaudor to kill sleeping FARC members.
The same job he did on THIS website.
Following orders.
bet on it.
He’s probably a very nice sorta company cop.
If of course you like the type.
I don’t, myself.
The only “good” Germans during Hitler’s years?
They were the ones who opposed him.
Booman’s first mistake was to give this guy a forum for his propaganda.
Propaganda changes, but its aim remains the same.
Bet on it.
AG
There are those who place a high importance on maintaining the American Empire. The neocons and PNAC types are generally have rather extreme views about this, but all of them have the general aim of expanding U.S. influence in the world. Some of the more moderate empirialists recognize that Iraq was a debacle, and they were looking for an alternative that will do a better job of advancing their agenda.
To a degree Clinton is also an empirialist, and that made people like Larry Johnson comfortable with her as an alternative to the Republicans.
Obama is a wild card in their eyes, but in all of his speeches he doesn’t talk like one who has any interest in imposing our influence on the remainder of the world.
McCain talks in public like he just wants to push the Bush doctorine for another 4 years. What he would actually do is an unknown at this point, and I suspect that many empirialists are nervous about this.
Now he’s revealed himself,
Bob,
Who didn’t know that Larry was doing what he was trained to do? This is why I don’t dislike him.
He’s just lost my trust and respect for doing such a bad job on the domestic front.
Yes, Cee,
A few months ago I started getting suspicious about the Plame case. Specifically, both Larissa Alexandrovna and Sibel Edmonds reported that Valerie Plame’s cover, Brewster Jennings, had its cover blown in 2001 by people within the government who were dealing with the shadow ring of arms traders (if you don’t know the Sibel Edmonds story, catch up). This pokes a couple of holes in the general narrative.
First off, the whole story of Plame being outed can’t be true if Brewster Jennings had already been exposed. The White House would have known B-J was kaput (their allies within had done the kaputting; see: Safari Club et al). Second, how long does it take for a CIA operation to notice that it’s been outed? Two years? And how long does it take a CIA agent who’s part of an entire operation that’s been blown to notice that the arms dealers who want uranium just don’t talk with her anymore? And is the CIA so independent of the executive branch that it really goes after prosecuting the executive branch over one of its agents? And is the Justice Department so free of influence from the President that it prosecutes people leading directly to the Prez?
Is the reason why Plame was back working at Langley because the operation had already been blown? And if that was the case, how much of the rest of it, the “yellowcake-Republican diplomat writing in the NYTimes (which was Judith Millering the war at the time)-wife’s exposure” narrative was real and how much of it was professional wrestling for our benefit?
And even if the narrative survives scrutiny, who’s to say that Larry Johnson’s initial cheerleading for Plame was anything more than an attempt to give him legitimacy within the Left prior to this election cycle?
Johnson, an anti-terror expert (which often means “our man with the plyers, or our man standing behind the man with the plyers”), very quickly moved from defending a CIA agent (who’s backing Hillary for what reason again?) to becoming an agit-propagandist for Hillary. It wasn’t a terribly smooth transition. We also have the old warhorse CIA propagandist Gloria Steinem doing some agit-prop for Hillary. Johnson seems to be targeting and generating racist hatred, and Steinem’s strategy is divisive gender memes with a little racism tossed in. We have H. Clinton’s “oppo research” as reported by Robert Parry which includes Reverend Wright (religious/racist divisiveness) and William Ayers (ancient historical political divisiveness from another era of government activism).
And then there’s Taylor Marsh, the woman who’s history has been created and paid for by someone or something.
In summation, there are a lot of toilers in Hillary’s fields who either are spooks or who act like spooks. If they were trying to overthrow a regime in Latin America or Africa or Southeast Asia I doubt most people here would have a problem identifying them or their work.
We’re not in Bogota anymore. But we might as well be. How much is Bill Clinton paid for those Colombia free trade speeches?
Bob,
Amen. I’m well aware of Sibel Edmonds and posted about it at NQ. He never addressed it.
Perception Management is the game and all that you mentioned are playing their roles.
Bill made 800 grand…that we know of.
Cee, in all fairness to Larry, I DO recall him (or perhaps it was Susan, or possibly Leslie – don’t recall) putting up posts regarding Sibel Edmonds.
Ding, ding, ding, ding! — I think you’ve got it, Bob.
BTW, thanks for that Nazis Go Underground link. Have you read Uki Goni’s The Real Odessa?
Exactly.
Look. The CIA has put enormous sums of money into controlling the media. You don’t think they’d spread some of that around the blogosphere too?
I was going to write something scathing about them but I thought better of it.
I’m sorry this election has cost you friends.
Sorry about all of it, Booman.
But like some of the others, I’m just not seeing that much of a there there. At first blush, this doesn’t sound even as revelatory or damning as the Wright stuff to me (and it wasn’t revelatory, but long known). I’ll freely admit my relative naïveté on these kinds of things, though.
Clinton will try to pounce on it, but I don’t see it shaking many superdelegates loose. If what you presented to us is the extent of it — it seems managable, though fairly troublesome.
Of course, how the Obama campaign handles this doesn’t have any bearing on your relationships with the No Quarter people, so that may be the more painful part.
Why would it be a problem at all? Unless she said “whitey” I mean.
I still don’t see “whitey” doing the trick. And then on top of that, the media is obligated to say, at the very least, that she could’ve said “Why’d he”, or whatever. It just honestly strikes me as rather amateurish and kind of like the Onion came up with it. Unless she actually said “WHITEY” — irrefutably — just pretty damned feeble. If there’s any room for doubt at all, it’s just fatally flawed. But maybe I’m just giving the media and the public too much credit. Wouldn’t be the first time.
Actually, I must say I’ve given the public far too little credit this year. I really expected Jeremiah Wright to do lasting damage to Obama, perhaps even end his candidacy. Then we got some actual polling after “the speech,” and it turned out nobody really cared much. Then we won that seat in Mississippi-01. Again, nobody cared about Wright.
The public was much more mature than I feared. People don’t seem to be morons in this election so far, unlike 2004 and 2000, despite the press’s best efforts.
Good point. And I know personally how significant it was for those people up in Tupelo to have Wright waved in their faces and still not take the bait. Let’s hope.
The gas tax was another one. Seeing the plurality of voters reject Hillary and McCain’s position on it was very encouraging. It also seems to have marked a bit of a turning point for McCain among some reporters.
Thankfully, economists — everyone from Greg Mankiw (on the right) to Brad DeLong (on the left) did their jobs, and the press did its job on that issue by not caving to the he-said/she-said nonsense.
Even better point. That one was rightfully stomped to death by logic-loving Americans everywhere!
Yes, re the gas tax. More people are paying closer attention, digging a little deeper. Not all, but there’s cause for some optimism about voters thinking twice before reacting like Pavlov’s dogs.
Watch.
AG
Yeah, right, Michelle Obama goes around and talks about “whitie”.
You’d sooner hear that from Laura Bush or Cindy McCain.
The image of Laura Bush running around bashing “whitey” is now stuck in my head, and I’m having a very difficult time keeping my coffee in my mouth.
Not believing “whitey” obviously, but I’d sure like to hear “Bush” by name in the lead-in to this snippet.
What’s the Jena reference? Jena Bush? Why would “Whitey” care about Jena Bush? Why’s Michelle upset about Jena?
Jena Six.
I’m not feeling very smart right now….
Jena = the town in Louisiana where the noose-over-the-tree-at-the-school story happened.
the Mickey Cantor video and the supposedly disrespectful comments from the video. It ended up changed, the director put the full clip out, and was thoroughly debunked. Daily Kos has that diary up at the top of the rec list and removed it when it was found to be altered.
So, Larry Johnson and the rest better be careful here. If they alter or try to insinuate something SAID that was not, they can end up in court. Faux News, too.
Yes, and if that’s what happens here, I say Michelle should take both to court and sue them into oblivion.
Yes, seriously. It would be a huge circus of a diversion from the campaign, but that could be managed, and this is out of bounds — just so craven and repulsive, I don’t know how she’d not. I do see the potential for a somewhat less painful settlement, though.
It might be a circus, but it’s a chance to shine a huge spotlight on conservative media bias. It would fully inoculate Michelle Obama from this nonsense, and it would allow Barack to slam the wingnuts for attacking his wife this way.
Long story short:
You trusted a CIA guy because you thought the whole Plame thing was wrong and he seemed to agree with you.
And I told you over and over again that there was more to it than that, that there was a left wing of the right wing and that its “CIA” used the same tools as did the right wing of the same community.
The entire Plame thing was suspect. From BOTH sides. i knew it the moment I saw the CIA pro-Plame put-up job on Nightline, copmplete with the requisite “ex”-CIA guys and a female agent in a disguise speaking through voice alteration technology.
Whadda load of bullshit!!!
NEVER trust a spook.
Even a so-called Democratic spook.
Now you don’t trust Mr. Johnson anymore…and indeed it even appears that your feelings have been hurt (!!!)…because he supports Clinton over Obama. Is it any coincidence that the Clintons were in Plame’s corner from the gitgo? Of course not. They are part of the same segment of the establishment.
That segment apparently thinks that Obama will either lose to McCain or at best earn a weak victory, and furthermore Obama has not yet sufficiently proved his fealty to the overlords of that group whereas Hillary Clinton most certainly has done so. Therefore they prefer Clinton.
Duh.
Business as usual.
They do not trust Obama, Booman.
That’s the long and short of it.
JKF doublecrossed them, and they don’t want to take any chances with someone having the same sort of broad popular appeal. That there chickens-roosting thiing kin git MESSY!!!
They make good sense, too. Obama probably will have a lot more trouble winning the general election than he has had against Clinton in the primaries, and the primaries have been nothing less than a squeaker if you tally the popular vote.
From Real Clear Politics:
Squeaky squeak squeak.
Add in the general election polls and the pro-Clinton skew can be plainly seen:
Mind you, Booman…this is from Real Clear Politics, which is the site you referenced earlier when you were trying to argue against my take on the matter.
Clinton vs. McCain + 1.1% over Obama vs. McCain in national polls
Clinton vs. McCain + 5.9% over Obama vs. McCain in PA.
Clinton vs. McCain + 7% over Obama vs. McCain in OH.
Oama wins over McCain in WI, Clinton loses. Skewed 5.4%
McCain beats them both in VA. He beats Obama 9.1% less badly than he does Clinton.
In Florida, Obama loses to McCain and Clinton wins. Skew? 11.3%
Clinton vs. McCain + .2% over Obama vs. McCain in CA. Both beat McCain handily there.
And what were the two swing states that allowed Bush to win…stolen election or not? In both 2000 + 2004?
Why Florida and Ohio, of course. Clinton has an +11.3 skew over Obama in Florida, where Obama actually loses to McCain (!!!), and a +7% skew in Ohio.
Hmmmm…
Mebbe them CIA guys ain’t so dumb about some things, eh Booman?
Oh.
But I forgot.
You don’t like Ms. Clnton OR the big bad CIA men.
Although of course you USED to like the CIA fella a lot when he agreed with you.
But now you don’t.
These numbers don’t agree with your pre-conclusions either.
So you won’t like them much, either. Or their messenger.
Hmmmmmm…you know what you are going to like even less, Booman?
President John McCain.
Me too, of course.
I got yer big boohoohoohoohoo right here, Booman.
If this nightmare happens, it will be you and the rest of the kneejerk left who are responsible.
Joe Bageant’s “soft, moody, self-absorbed American lefties. “
You think with your hearts and wonder why hardasses like the Republicans consistently kick your asses.
And now you appear to have done it again.
Dream on.
I fear that the Fitzmas to end ALL Fitzmasses is headed this way as we speak.
Congrats.
Sorry your feeling have been hurt.
Get real.
AG
You know, if you’re going to whine constantly about the “kneejerk left,” then why participate? I’m assuming, by “kneejerk left,” you’re referring to those of us who haven’t lapped up all of the crazy shit over the last eight years, and who aren’t willing to bend over for Her Majesty.
Entertaining though your McCarthy-As-Six-Year-Old-Writer routine is, I don’t understand your problem.
You don’t understand my problem?
My “problem” is that I think the left has succeeded in demonizing Hillary Clinton to such a degree that the unthinkable is about to happen.
After 8 years of total failure on every level, the Republicans are going to have a good chance to continue their stellar record for another 4 or 8 years.
Why do I continue to participate?
On the increasingly slimmer hope that some people will wise up and that the absolutely unbeatable Obama/Clinton ticket will be run in Election ’08.
But not if you shmoon can help it.
Good work, guys.
Demonize me as well.
I’m a REAL McCarthyite.
THIS McCarthy.
Kevin McCarthy in The Invasipn Of The Body Snatchers
As y’all self-satisfiedly pat yourselves on the back for “winning”.
Whadda buncha maroons.
AG
Why in God’s name would we want Clinton on the ticket? You’re constantly pushing this idea, yet I see nothing in your case to support the idea. Why put a crazy person, who made it quite clear that she believed McCain was more qualified than Obama, on the ticket? You seem determined to provide the Republicans with a five-month series of field days.
No ticket is unbeatable. Plenty would make for better tickets than Obama-Clinton.
Well, there are three reasons, none of them good.
4) He’s got a mental disorder and should be seeking professional help rather than posting on blogs.
Oh, come on. That’s not necessary!
I totally disagree with my good friend AG on this issue, but no need for ad-hominem.
I’m not attacking him. I’m raising a legitimate possibility. Psychological illness is not a character problem or a flaw, it’s a medical condition and it or the possibility of it should be treated as such – with an appropriately clinical attitude.
What are your qualifications for making online diagnoses?
to be mostly on the other side, Egarwaen.
A true mental disorder…the inablility to count…that is driven by an emotional disorder. The unreasoning hartred of Hillary Clinton. Which has ITSELF been driven largely by a right wing-dominated media that does not ever want to have to deal with her as President.
So it goes.
Obama has the nomination, short of a cataclysmic occurrence of some sort.
But does he have the Presidency?
We shall soon see.
I believe that he could solidify his chances of winning by including Hillary Clinton on the ticket, and I further believe that she would take the position and fight just as hard in the general election as she did in the primaries.
Does that make me insane?
Please.
Wake the fuck up.
AG
Why do you assume it’s unreasoning hatred, or even hatred at all? Hatred implies a level of personal that’s simply not been present in the writings of Obama’s supporters. And then there’s the fact that you say that they’re mostly on the other side – implying that good old Larry Johnson and Susan Hu and Taylor Marsh haven’t been spewing unreasoning hatred, while Booman and Kos and friends have?
Nothing personal?
I guess you just have not been looking underneath the right rocks.
Here.
Dig in.
Or…just go to dKos and browse around a little.
Unreasoning hatred of this woman ABOUNDS!!!
It abounds for Obama as well.
But…he’s winning, so on the evidence it hasn’t been as effective.
So far.
Wait.
You ain’t seen NUTHIN’ yet.
AG
Also, “fight just as hard”? She hasn’t fought. She’s used more force, sure, but don’t confuse that with fighting. Clinton’s like a pro wrestler going up against a master of judo – she goes roaring and rushing forward, then winds up on the ground after five confused seconds, trying to catch her breath and wondering what happened. And then gets up and does it again. And again. And again. Pandagon‘s got an excellent run-down of her mistakes.
Obama doesn’t need a fighter for a VP pick. I’m convinced he’ll get farther by aggressively taking the high road and encouraging the Republicans to hit themselves in the face. Beyond that, I don’t know what he does need, but a fighter’s one thing he damn well doesn’t.
First you say that there is no unreasoning hatred of Hillary Clinton.
Then…AND MIND YOU, THERE IS NOT ONE SITE ON THE INTERNET THAT HAS HER BEHIND IN THE POPULAR VOTE BY MUCH MORE THAN 1 PERCENTAGE POINT AND MANY COUNTS PUT HER AHEAD…then you compare her to a WWF faker going up[ against a master judo fighter.
Has she made errors?
Is she as talented in the rhetorical department as is Obama?
Has her age and the age of her staff finally become something of a burden in terms of style and understanding?
Yes.
But she is still getting about 49% of the popular vote.
And she has fought her ASS off.
You think Obama will be able to tread the so-called “high road” when the Rats start lathering him with buckets of shit?
Even a judo fighter sometimes has to close his fists, set his feet and take his opponent down the old-fashioned way.
Bet on it.
And the addition of a proven vote-getter in the very demographics where Obama is weak and McCain is strong wouldn’t exactly be chopped liver, either.
But…NOOOOOOO!!!!
You close your eyes and expect to clomp clomp clomp clomp clomp on through.
Let’s hope Obama is smarter than that.
Let us pray.
AG
fuck you
I understand that his RHETORIC does this, Lisa.
His voting record simply does not back this idea up very well.
Nor does his list of owners…errrrr…contributors.
I have seen too many politicians say “horrible” things about other politicians and then turn around and embrace them for tactical political reasons. Witness the Bush/McCain reconciliation for all you need to know on that subject.
I can see it coming, Lisa.
They are as thick as thieves.
In fact…they ARE thieves.
A politician by any other name smells as sour.
Do not allow yourself to be rhetoric-ed, Lisa.
You are too smart for that.
C’mon…
You know better.
Or at least you should know better.
Too many days dealing with the two-faced, Lisa.
Wise up.
We are not ALL spooks.
AG
Plus, from Clinton’s perspective, why would she want to give up her powerful position in the Senate to become a relatively powerless VP?
Before all this started I would have thought that she’d make a great Majority Leader to help get the initiatives she really cares about through the Senate.
Now I’m not so sure she hasn’t burned all her political capital trying to clobber Obama.
Ohhhh…I don’t know.
In order to win the election against the vast right wing conspiracy that so injured her, her goals and her family?
In order to serve the party that she has so well served for 40 years?
In order to save the United States from almost certain collapse?
In order to avert a nuclear war?
Or…maybe not.
Maybe she IS just as shallow as her critics, almost all of whom operate on the assumption that the only driving forces in her life are ego and personal ambition.
Grow up.
AG
Her goals? Artie, unless the VRWC forced her to vote for the Iraq War, she was plenty capable of injuring her own goals. And she did.
By losing both houses of Congress and most state governments, to say nothing of her husband’s major role in Al Gore losing? Or perhaps by decimating the state parties outside of blue states and a few swing states? Or by turning the DNC into a corporate-owned committee of, by and for the Clintons and their backers?
Or perhaps you refer to her days as a Goldwater Girl back in the ’60s, when Goldwater was opposing civil rights and looking to nuke Vietnam? Which leads me to…
Which would explain her comment threatening nuclear war with Iran, right?
The collapse that she and her idiot husband helped to bring about by castrating the left and getting in bed with the right in this country?
I do get a kick out of your mindless rants.
Only one other blog entity has ever called me “Artie” with any regularity.
A real sleazeball, he is.
For him…and for all of his sockpuppets..I have only only five words.
That’s MISTER Artie, to you.
AG
I’m not around here much any more, and was always a big AG fan, but I think you’re way off base here.
The simple fact is that Clinton (both of them) are horrible Democrats in that they may as well be moderate Republicans. I’ll vote Green or Libertarian before I vote for that again.
(is that a personal attack of Hillary? I don’t think so, but if it is then she deserves every bit of it.)
A crazy person.
Right.
There it is.
Fool.
Hillary Clinton would cut you in a sanity test in a NY minute. She has stood up under 30+ years of the worst kind of political pressure without collapsing, and I admire her for it. Do I disagree with some of her positions? Without having walked a mile in similar shoes…? Yes, I do. Is she “crazy”? HELL, no.
Yes, Virginia.
There is a Sanity Clause.
And you obviously haven’t read it.
A “crazy” person.
Right.
Weak, brother.
REALLY weak.
AG
P.S. She has NOT “made it quite clear” that she believes McCain is more qualified than Obama.
She HAS made it quite clear that she believes that her experience makes her a more qualified candidate than is Obama. Almost exactly 1/2 of the people who have voted in the primaries apparently agree with her.
I would be very happy to see Obama in the White House. He has other qualities and qualifications than does Hillary Clinton that recommend him for the office in these (hopefully) changing times. They are mostly mythic in nature, and I do not mean that in a derogatory sense. I mean it in terms of his race, his relative youth and most of all his undeniable charisma. Plus…he is highly intelligent and quite gifted in both an organizational sense and in a political sense, witness the brilliant campaign that he has headed so far.
But AMONG those qualiifications one thing stands out to me. Put Obama’s positions and Clinton’s positions side by side? Point by point? Thee are so close as to be almost identical.
So where’s your beef, Drew? Besides of course the blahblahblah at blahblahblah.com that you have so obviously been ingesting on a daily maintenance basis that you include in in your snarky little sig.
Why in God’s name would we want Clinton on the ticket?
So that Obama can WIN, goddamnit!!!
Win big!!!
YOU know…like with big coattails that provide a dominant majority in Congress so that he can fucking do something instead of 4 years and out like Carter?
Duh.
There is a heavily larded ass hanging off of the body politic of this country today…the ass of the past, the remnants of same ass that elected Nixon, Reagan and the Bushes…and it is going to vote McCain, McCain, McCain, McCain, and then fucking McCain again.
Bet on it.
Plus the Ratpublicans will wage their usual effective campaign of lies. If the inclusion of Hillary Clinton on the ticket brought about even a 5% swing in that lardassed demographic towards the Democratic ticket…and please look at the numbers of women, working class whites and hispanic people who are Clinton backers for all you need to know on THAT account…then that would be 5% less for McCain and 5% more for Obama.
That’s a 10% difference in the vote, which in these times is sometimes referred to as a fucking landlside!!! And I personally believe the skew would be even greater than 5%. On what evidnece? On my travels through all of the classes of this country on a regular basis.
I have made this point and made this point here. Over and over and over again.
And yet you can still write:
And you still refer to Hillary Clinton as “crazy”.
DUH!!!
You done been HYPNOTIZLED, boyo.
Wake the fuck up.
Turn off Keith Olbermann and smell the coffee.
Wake the fuck up.
The left’s hypno-news is no better than the right’s hypno-news .
Wake the fuck up and take a look around.
Duh.
Over and out.
NEWSTRIKE!!!
And try some HYPESTRIKE!!! while you’re at it.
You be bettah off.
Duh.
AG
Let’s journey back with the help of the Google, shall we? From Hillzilla herself:
So what are we to infer from that, sweetheart?
As to the “crazy” bit — well, people who threaten genocide against countries, whether seriously or simply in an effort to look tough, are crazy.
Now on to this little nugget that people have been pushing for the last year and three months:
No, they’re not. The difference lies in the degree to which each candidate can be trusted. Her Majesty has revealed herself to be untrustworthy and utterly incompetent, as evidenced by her vote on Kyl-Lieberman, her powerfully stupid campaign, her failure to achieve universal health care, her truly Bushian bullshitting on the gas tax, and so on. Now contrast those with Obama, and tell me what you get out of it.
Lastly,
I’m not even sure what that means.
The rest of your rant is simply the usual drivel. No evidence. No logic. No nothin’. But you used many exclamation marks, so it must all be true.
Or something.
(“Bet on it.”)
Hillary demonized herself. We just comment on it.
I don’t even comment anymore. I just sit back and laugh at the most effective and determined flushing of a formerly positive Presidential legacy since… Uh… Since…
Come to think of it, have any other ex-Presidents ever gone batshit insane like this? Seriously, any minute now I’m expecting the Clintons to put on some absurd spandex costumes, break out a doomsday device, and demand one billion dollars from the Democratic Party.
It’s just like Will Rogers. We don’t have to make anything up, we just sit back and report the facts.
Imagine Clinton stepping forward on the dias before the convention to accept the nomination as Obama’s VP. And she says…
You know, all those times I said McCain would be a better president than Obama, that was just me fighting for first place, you know. I didn’t really mean it. But, you can believe me now when I say Obama is going to the bestest president ever!
And all those times I said Obama was unelectable, well, that was true. But, now that I’m going to be standing beside him, WE are unbeatable!
He’ll get the black vote and I’ll get the ignorant white vote. He’ll get the intellectuals and I’ll get the stupids. He’ll get the men and I’ll get the women. Together we’ve got it covered!
Finally, let me reassure all of you that if anything should happen to Obama, I will be ready to step into his place on day one!
(Off-stage, loud whisper from Bill) “Whadaya mean I don’t get to speak next?”
so following your theory AG, how do we know your not CIA???
I’m too original.
My prose SMELLS better, too.
If of course your literary olfactory nerves are not too stopped up from overindulgence in the smoke and mirrors of the mainstream media.
Which I doubt.
CIA guys jes’ cain’t swing, americanforliberty.
But of course, if you cain’t swing either.,..well then there you jolly well are, aren’t you.
Up the creek without a reader.
Yup.
You done been mediaswoggled, americanforliberty.
Too bad.
Clomp on…
AG
sounds like an infiltrator to me..to hip be a snitch..
don’t take it too seriously…
Polling in May is meaningless. Just wanted to point that out.
Arthur Gilroy, do you belong to a cult that doesn’t allow its adherents’ to use paragraphs? Just asking. I’m getting repetitive stress scrolling down through your comments. Thank god the internet is paperless.
No.
I belong to a cult of fast readers.
Spacing slows ’em down a bit.
Applies and enforces a certain rhythm to their reading.
That’s a GOOD thing, on the evidence.
Because most ‘a you don’t appear to understand ANYTHING that you read.
Skimmers all.
AG
I hope the new tape is better than the doctored tape being distributed on the internet in which her “really proud” comment lost its “really.” The awkward superlative construction of her comment garnered plenty of attention already, but it had the unfortunate problem being quite understandable to anyone with a grade school level understanding of English grammar.
That small obstacle was overcome with some sloppy tape editing, which still allows one to hear the beginning and end of the word ‘really.’ There have been previous attempts by Patrick Buchanan and Tucker Carlson to verbally edit Michelle’s comment by deliberately omitting the “really” modifier to “proud” so the strategy is hardly new.
Booman,
On what basis do you believe this to be the transcript — misheard or otherwise — of the alleged tape?
Well, BooMan, Larry’s site used to be one of my favourites, even though I used to get quite annoyed at times with the “American first” point of view (and did not hesitate to say so), and it was there that I got introduced to yours. I came to consider Susan a friend, and had some private communication with Larry that was positive, though we never spoke on a personal level. I watched with huge disappointment as the site deteriorated from one that offered unique and valuable information and points of view to a virtually bottomless pit of hysterical anti-Obama fantasy and Hillary hagiography. I feel as if I have seen Larry and Susan lose their minds. So, like you, I have rarely looked at the site for some time because it is simply to painful, disappointing, and quite frankly the content is beyond boring. I guess the madness of the season overtook both of them, and I have lost a lot of my respect for them.
And I am NOT, repeat NOT an Obama supporter (nor am I a supporter of Hillary – I do not see sufficient difference between them in the areas that are important to me that I can differentiate between the two). Not that I am such a big deal in the blogosphere, although I have managed to achieve some small-time respect (and also to be reviled by some) on issues involving Iraq, Palestine/Israel and the Middle East and Muslim world in general, but though I have not lost my affection for Susan, I do not want to be associated with No Quarter anymore (where I post under a different name than here, by the way).
Make that posted under a different name.
Hi Hurria,
I recognize your writing style. 🙂
Yes, remember the times Susan was sick and all we did to help her?
Hi Leslie,
Yes, I remember those times well, and I do not regret any of it. I would have done more if I had been able to. I wish Susan well, and am bewildered and sad to see what has happened with her especially, and also with Larry, and what they have done to such a very valuable website, turning it into a sewer.
That site used to be one of my favourite places to go and to comment and debate because it touched interesting and important issues in an out-of-the-ordinary way, and had a collection of mostly intelligent, thoughtful, and experienced people who saw things from a perspective that was different from what I am normally exposed to, and helped me to expand the way I thought about certain things. Now I cannot bear to look at it, and don’t much even like to think about it.
Actually, I am glad BooMan brought this up because it gives an opportunity to express one’s feelings about it.
.
"But I will not let myself be reduced to silence.".
Pastor Pfleger’s apology …
“It is painful that as a result of this video over 3,000 email of hate, threats, and name calling, who go so far as to ask you to kill yourself or take your life, greet you in less than 24 hours, and you are bombarded by mean hateful and racial name calling, yes, it is very painful.
It is also grieving to me when a 1.5 minute “Youtube” video becomes the headlines across the world of papers and news stations, while the tragedy and death of earthquakes, cyclones, and tornadoes that have taken lives of people around this world, while the killing of our children across the country and here in Chicago, and the easy access to guns have become stories on page 18 and 19, and while people are at my front door, looking for food to eat or gas to get to work, indeed that grieves me.
Brothers and sisters, racism is an explosive and sensitive sin in our world and it is against the command to love, and against the God of love.
I said on Thursday, I apologize for words that I chose. I apologize for my dramatization that was for many who do not know me, simply typical dramatics I often use in sermons.”
Pfleger puts Obama in unwelcome spot again
Barack Obama: Putting faith out front
"But I will not let myself be reduced to silence."This site and DailyKos have been anti-Clinton sites for many months. But when one little blog doesn’t like Obama, it’s a crime. If you guys don’t thicken up your skins, McCain will win in a walk.
And that will be a real crime.
They “don’t like” Obama? It’s a bit more than that.
If it were merely a matter of “not liking Obama” it would hardly be a big deal.
Booman, as I was saying…
Why don’t you give voice to your paranoid maunderings?
Ain’t it.
Too bad it’s so fucking dangerous as well.
AG
Steve at No More Mister Nice Blog reminds us of who No Quarter has hopped into bed with: the odious Roger Stone (somebody over there is pushing Stone’s legitimacy by pointing out that he trained at the feet-things of Lee Atwater). Steve also points out that they apparently aren’t remembering the wonderful acronym of Stone’s anti-Clinton 527.
Follow Stone’s career. Interesting who he’s touched. Expect eruptions from some of his clients between now and the fall. You get what you pay for.
Booman – People are strange. They are what they are and it has nothing to do with what you are. Try not to take it personal.
This is the dying of the age of bullshit.
self-righteousness if you did not have the Vanity Fair hit piece relying on Monica Lewinsky’s intuition about Bill Clinton’s affair with Walter Mondale’s daughter (yes, you read that right) on the front page. BooMan, stay above it or wallow, but don’t wag you finger at others from the slime.
Actually, that piece does not rely on Monica. It relies on a conversation with Mike McCurry, who was then the press secretary. Either you believe the reporter that this conversation happened or you don’t. But it doesn’t rely on Monica. It is a first-hand report.
A hit piece is a hit piece. You ask us to rely on Mike McCurry, but on the same page DEMAND that we accept what you THINK the audio says, rather than listen to it.
I do not support the alleged “Whitey” audio by Larry Johnson. In fact, I find it despicable. But I find the entire team gang-up mindset that says any bit of filth anybody wants to write about a Clinton is acceptable equally despicable. The bottom line is pretty simple – if you are going to peddle garbage, you don’t get to complain that somebody else’s garbage stinks.
What audio?
I didn’t ask you to rely on Mike McCurry. I reported that it was an allegation, not that I believed it had to be true.
We will see if McCurry denies this conversation took place. The Clinton campaign, pointedly, did not deny it.
They also did not deny any of the other salacious points in the article, but those are not sourced and they are not concrete.
I don’t deny that the Vanity Fair peace is exceedingly nasty and not balanced at all by talking about the good things Bill Clinton has been doing. But my sole point in referring to the article is that the Clinton’s are not vetted, their history is not settled, there are skeletons that may emerge that could cripple Clinton’s electability. It’s push-back against the argument that Obama isn’t electable because of his alleged skeletons.
This allegation is not sourced to anonymous staffers and it isn’t mere surmise or innuendo. It is a reported fact from a source that was there and heard what he heard. If he denies it then I’ll have to judge his credibility at that time. The Clintons did not deny it in a 2,300 word response to the article.
Oh BS! You front-paged a salacious bit of innuendo. The Vanity Fair article basically said ‘Clinton hangs out with rich men who screw younger women, and stayed out late once with Mondale’s daughter AND BARBARA STREISAND, making Monica Lewinsky jealous.’
The article is crap. Your front-paging of it is disgusting. It is not QUITE as disgusting as what Larry Johnson is doing, mostly because he is probably making the whole thing up himself, while you are simply passing along what somebody else made up. Beyond that, though, you have both (and ain’t that the tragedy of this whole primary, what has happened to good people?) become filth-mongers.
Oh BS yourself. Booman’s point is exactly right. We have no idea how many other skeletons are in that salacious closet. And see my other note. It’s over anyway – so this can’t hurt her.
By contrast, anything negative about Obama and his wife can still hurt him, since he’s now facing the general election.
More importantly, Lisa, it can hurt both the people of this country and do great damage worldwide. I am no fan of Obama’s at all, but if McCain becomes President, the world is in for another four years, at least, of the kinds of troubles it has seen over the last seven-plus.
I came back a few weeks ago from spending a month in the Middle East, most of which was in Syria. I really fear that Syria will meet a fate similar to that of Iraq if McCain is elected, despite the fact that its government is relatively moderate and ready to deal openly with the U.S. and Israel (and the very idea that the site Israel bombed last year was a nuclear site – yeah, right! A nuclear site out in the middle of the desert with exactly zero security! Sure!)
about a lot more concerning that alleged nuclear site:
based on what little real information has been available to date, l don’t anticipate a finding that will be positive to the interests of the administration, nor of israel.
we shall see.
“you have both…become filth-mongers.“
Give me a break! There is no reasonable comparison. Larry’s blog has become nothing but an endless stream of filth intended to try to sink Obama by any means possible, including absurd allegations that he had connections with Saddam (because he knows someone who knew someone who knew someone who knew Saddam – as I have said, based in that, by comparison I was practically joined to Saddam at the hip!), and is closely allied with terrorists (based on the fact that he knows someone who, at the time Obama was a child, was part of the Weather Underground).
How about the Clintons close relation with drug cartel? (all the way at the bottom). Also here
websites? You are a regular assassin. I heard you caused damage to MLW with all your self-righteous anti-semitic, nazi-hunter screeches. You’re on the hunt for more blood again?
Here’s my question: Who wanted the hit piece out? If the reporter got this, say, a month or two back, why was it witheld until now? Why wasn’t the swill poured out earlier?
There’s a reason why the main course is served before dessert. Why was the Mondale girl served up now?
Oh, and the Obama campaign? We haven’t even gotten past the breadsticks. Roger, pass the butter.
The odious Roger Stone, breadsticks and butter.
Roger and wifey…who used to be so-called “swingers” themselves. You could look it up.
And breadsticks and butter.
EWWWW!!!!
The images!!!
The horror! The horror!
Too much info.
Give us a break, Bob.
Please!!!
Please!!!
AG
Wow – I totally disagree.
A hit piece is not a hit piece if a) it’s true and b) it’s about someone already out of office who will be unaffected by its revelation. The point of a “hit piece” is to take someone out of the running.
If you’d been watching the news this weekend, you’d know the Rules committee already effectively took Hillary out of the running, so the piece on her husband does no further harm.
There’s just no comparison to a video about Michelle that people want you to mishear. None.
Plus, Hillary has lost the nomination by every measure: states, delegates and voters. The DNC’s rules committee and Florida and Michigan just sealed it when they didn’t give Hillary everything she wanted.
We’re being reminded that Bill and Hillary aren’t done being vetted.
The GOP is just waiting while Clinton surrogates are doing their dirty work for them
I don’t want to live with more Clinton scandal. Do you?
Reporting on a controversial essay in a well-respected liberal publication and speculating on its validity
DOES NOT EQUAL
Feeling regret over former friends making up crazy-ass shit.
out front and you will not have this problem.
Word.
AG
To Kazahkstan and Colombia, you mean?
Cha-ching! Both Larry and Bill stand to make more money.
Another comment – there are many in the Democratic party (not that I would say Larry is a Democrat – this is more of a general comment) who believe that the only way to beat Republicans is to play their own game. Fight a hard, aggressive and dirty campaign. They are frustrated by the difficulties that the Democratic party has had in past decades in winning the Presidency, and to them Obama is just another Dukakis or Kerry because of his unwillingness to play dirty politics.
And if Obama had a different personality and were weak and uninspiring, this could be a concern. Many of the Clinton supporters have demonized Obama to a degree that they are currently blind to the possibilities.
Booman,
I understand mourning the loss of friends, but perhaps it’s because I am quite familiar with the self-centered nature of humanity that I am not surprised that “good guys” go off on “tangents” and do something crazy from my perspective. There are no “good guys”, there are simply people who look after their own interests, however they define their interests. Many of the people who we call friends are our friends because our interests generally align, but in too many instances we develop deep friendships with people whose true interests only seem to align, when upon closer inspection our interests have entirely different bases, and those differences certainly will be exposed when they are put under pressure.
For example, I support civil unions, but I’m willing to bet that virtually nobody who posts here regularly would make my argument for civil unions. If you only considered my support for civil unions instead of the basis for that support then you might be taken aback when some other issue arose and you found me on the other side of the argument.
You have to take a deeper look at the people that you call your friends, not for the purpose of passing judgment on them, but for the purpose of truly knowing them and understanding what they truly believe. When you truly know them then you won’t be surprised by what they do – you’ll actually be able to anticipate their actions and act accordingly.
I do feel sorry for your loss – you have my condolences.
Oscar, politics is all about coalitions. I don’t agree with you that homosexuality is a sin or an abomination, but if you support equal rights for all people, then I think we can agree to disagree on the sin angle.
Maybe one day you you’ll write a diary about all the subtelties concerning friendship, support for an issue and the basis for that support. You can let loose a firestorm.
My brother has been all over this for some time. Sometime last week, he received an ALL-CAPS FREAKOUT from Larry calling him a moron.
Somehow, I don’t think it’s Ray that’s the moron.
Hey, good morning, man. Didn’t even see you there but thanks for the plug, nonetheless. How’d the gardening work out?
On the topic, I commented slightly downthread about the screenshot of the comment I saw early yesterday alleging the exact same phrases and potential misinterpretatinos so this just backs that up.
drop by brendancalling: lots of pictures of the crops and beds.
Boo,
When you respect someone you always give them the benefit of the doubt.
Now neither are deserving of that respect or trust.
They wouldn’t listen to people who tried to tell them that their strategy was harmful and what they were spreading was nonsense so just move on.
over at the No Sense blog:
Hearing you backing this up solidifies my belief this is a smear.
Thanks, Booman.
So there should be something like a video going up, right?
Hmmmm….
Okay, so now he is lying and just trying to smear which I always suspected. I thought that no one had the tape and a billionaire was going to pay someone for the tape? So did someone get paid the $1 million? Didn’t Larry say that it had her railing against “whitey” but now I hear that she is tied to The Nation of Islam. Which is it Larry?
And if it really is that explosive, how come the Clintons don’t use it right now and end the whole thing? I mean, clearly one of their biggest boosters has access to the tape or he wouldn’t know what’s on it. There can hardly only be one copy; this is, after all, the Internet age. If it exists at all, it exists everywhere. Are we expected to suddenly believe that we’ve found some kind of political smear tactic the Republicans will use but the Clintons won’t? That’d be a first!
I don’t care what GOOD Larry Johnson was up to in the past, he has completely lost his moral compass and now lives in the gutter. He has become nothing more than a gutter troll.
If anything, this campaign has shown who is made of real moral fibre and has real integrity and who doesn’t.
Hillary’s bid for the nomination has become a pathetic display of decadence in the making.
Thank God she is loosing, because she is creating too many loons in the process. This is a true leader? Someone who inspires this kind of behaviour?
Thank God the true leader, who inspires all that is good about this nation is winning! There is hope after all.
acting like there is 1 tape and it’s been secreted away. This isn’t a movie. If there was a damning tape it’d have been found by multiple oppo researchers and Clinton would have used it visa Drudge in a last ditch effort to save her dead campaign.
I believe that IS what is happening, Jay.
Duh.
Only it’s not necessarily “Clinton”, and it’s not necessarily a bad thing.
What is there is a tape…or worse…that absolutely, positively finishes Obama’s candidacy?
What if?
Do you want to hear about it now or in November?
Hmmmm….
AG
What if? What if aliens have inhabited the body of Hillary Clinton and are plotting a take over of the United States!
They’ve already done that with Bush.
AG
I don’t care how much “good” Larry Johnson did in the past! That will never excuse what he has done! He has scoured the depths of immorality to get what he wants and so has his High Priestess.
These people have betrayed themselves for who they really are. Bottom feeders.
They tried to sully the reputation of a good and honest man and in the process they have lost their own forever!
I think the blog was worth reading for a while. You didn’t have to wonder what the Clinton campaign would do next.
They dumped it on NQ before that shit oozed out to the press.
So what’s the deal? Does Shithead have a tape or not?
Which shithead?
AH
Just a question, Who the hell says “Whitie” anymore? Certainly nobody in my (Michelle’s) generation.
A lot of friendships have been damaged beyond repair this primary season, both online and IRL.
There are lots of bloggers I will never take seriously again as well.
“I have not seen it but I have heard from five separate sources who have spoken directly with people who have seen the tape.”
Disgraceful, Larry.
Put up or shut up. After promising his lunatic readers a “tape” for weeks, we now learn he has no such tape. The whole point of this exercise was to plant the Michelle/whitie” meme and let the crazy people fertilize and nourish it.
You can take the boy out of the CIA, but you can’t take the CIA out of the boy.
One of Michele’s college roommates described her as lady like and well mannered ,even as a freshman .
So with that as a foundation , we are suppose to entertain the notion of foul language from her after years of additional maturity and having been part of the most language conscious profession on earth ?
Sounds to me , like the person who thought that up the tape notion ,is in way to deep on looping Flava Flav reruns .
“This election has ruined a lot of friendships.”
No.
It’s the behavior of people like Larry and Susan is what has ruined whatever friendships existed or whatever sense of respect one could have for them.
They chose to do these things on their own.
The behavior of Clinton and her surrogates has been beneath contempt since the beginning. I was an ardent admirer of Bill and Hillary, but these last 5 months have permanently destroyed any respect I will ever have for them.
I tried for weeks to forgive and forget the worst that came our of the Clinton campaign; to this date, Hillary has refused to distance herself from the worst of it. She should actively be denouncing these disgusting attacks, but she remains almost totally silent.
Well, I pretty much set my bridge on fire with gasoline and sticks of dynamite in February of 2006 due to my, and other’s, interpretation that there was some shitty, xenophobic behavior being exhibited by one of your former front pagers. I haven’t been surprised to see it rear its ugly head again during this campaign.
That was what it took for me to realize that the frontpager in question was little more than a poseur rather than anything even remotely like a genuine lefty (or even the faux American version for that matter).
Whitey?
Why’d he?
Kind of reminds me of that scene in Annie Hall, where Woody Allen gets a bit obsessional about whether the guy they were just playing tennis with was an antisemite.
“Did you hear what that guy we were playing against said to me?”
“No, what?”
“I asked him if he ate yet and he said: `No. Jew? Did Jew eat? Jew?’ How could he say that?”
Woody Allen’s Jewish. What’s Larry’s excuse?
Does anyone have a youtube of Whitey on the Moon to contribute to No Quarter?
.
Whitey On the Moon
"But I will not let myself be reduced to silence."I emailed Larry once yesterday, asking him why he’s perpetuating this lie, and trying to usurp the will of the voters from his party.
He has now emailed me three times, each time giving me a stern “warning” about going to my local law enforcement agency with my email, and saying that my email was “threatening”. Although, I couldn’t imagine why anyone would actually threaten an ex-CIA officer.
This guy has gone off his rocker, and to think that I would threaten him, from my personal email address with my name, phone number and address in my sig file, is so ridiculous it makes me laugh.
This guy is a total nutcase!
Fuck Whitey. He sucks. I’m White. I know Whitey sucks.
When Whitey gets up and goes to work as ‘The Man’ – he only gets worse.
Whitey sucks because he is a powerful coward, jealously gaurding his ill-gained diabetes-encrusted hoard from everyone he’s F’d with in the past. Whitey bowls for Columbine, Whitey keeps the prisons full of young black men for the Prison-Induatrial complex to pay 47 cents a day. Whitey promises peace and delivers eternal war. Whitey demands your taxes and pays them to his friends. Whitey makes it hard for you to vote.
Down with WHITEY!!!!