It’s kind of amusing to see that the political coverage of the campaign is proceeding as if the FISA bill capitulation never began and is not ongoing. RealClearPolitics’ only mention is a Moonie Times editorial on how great the FISA bill is. Mark Halperin’s The Page has no mention of it at all, although he does note the unusual circumstance that both John McCain and Barack Obama are left-handed. Matt Drudge has no mention of FISA on his homepage. This is one of the subtle ways that the corporate media is able to do the bidding of corporate interests. If they don’t cover something, it doesn’t exist. Yet, it should be a news story in and of itself, that the same blogosphere and the same activists that were lined up so strongly for Barack Obama in the primaries are now criticizing him loudly.
A pundit might want to at least try his or her hand at pondering the potential significance of such a development. Just last week, Obama endorsed Rep. John Barrow of Georgia and cut a television advertisement for him. Yet, that same representative is now the target of a Netroots’ campaign to elect his primary challenger Regina Thomas. ActBlue shows that over 1,000 activists have donated a combined $28,000 to Thomas’ campaign, and that is just through their site and doesn’t include the over $300,000 that has been raised by Blue America to oppose proponents of retroactive immunity and the expanded police-state domestic surveillance powers. Much of that money will be targeted at Rep. Barrow as well.
It’s easy to dismiss opponents of the FISA bill as just some fringe leftists and libertarians. But it won’t be easy to dismiss a primary loss for Rep. Barrow. And that is a real possibility.
John Barrow’s voting record in Congress “is the worst of all the Democrats,” state Sen. Regina Thomas said Saturday.
Thomas, challenging fellow Savannah Democrat Barrow in the July 15 primary election, talked with reporters following a candidates forum.
“Did we send a Democrat to Congress four years ago, or did we send a Republican?” she said after the Georgia Association of Black Elected Officials event. “When we send people to Congress, if people tell us they are a Democrat or a Republican, we expect them to act that way.”
How are Democrats in Barrow’s district going to feel about this argument?
Thomas also challenged Barrow on another issue – the House’s vote Friday for a compromise eavesdropping bill. It would provide a shield from lawsuits for telecommunication companies that participated in the Bush administration’s warrantless wiretapping program.
“My opponent voted in favor of that act with Bush and the Republicans,” Thomas said.
The vote ended a partisan standoff over rules for domestic wiretapping in the aftermath of the Sept. 11 attacks.
Barrow said the bill “strikes the right balance” between providing tools needed to fight terrorism and protecting “the freedoms we stand for.”
He said more than 100 House Democrats, including House Majority Leader Stony Hoyer, D-Md., voted for the measure.
News reports indicate that 105 Democrats joined 188 Republicans in supporting the bill, which passed, 293-129.
In any case, Thomas remains opposed.
“The government can spy on people. It can wiretap them without them knowing it,” she said. Government officials “are violating the Fourth Amendment’s (constitutional) right to privacy. They are using terrorism as an excuse so they can find out what people are … saying.”
The Savannah Morning News can discuss it, but the corporate news aggregators apparently cannot.
Amusing is one word for it.
For this crazy liberal, the events this last week have been the most important events of the entire primary season. I now know where the Democratic party is heading and it isn’t heading for “change”. I guess it’s just icing on the cake for me to see how out of touch the media and mainstream politics is from my concerns.
For me the mot juste is “depressing”. The issues I care the most about gets a collective yawn from the media.
Meanwhile the country will be debating preachers and flag pins and other inanities. My only criticism is that the liberal blogosphere is largely to blame for this. Instead of focusing on core liberal positions the liberal blogosphere took sides early and got suckered into a personality passion play between two center-right candidates. It gave away its loyalty for a cheap price. I can’t think of any positive concessions liberals got this year. After being right all these years we didn’t even get a bone but the right-wing is already getting bones thrown at it by Obama.
I guess it’s off to the wildenrness for me. It’s a relief really. I don’t have to care about this election season anymore. It’s a huge time suck and a huge letdown anyway. After all that hope its still the same Democratic party that is headed for oblivion.
What gives you the right not to care?
Another easily defeated activist?
You’ll take your ball and go home the moment you face disappointment?
And then you’ll blame others for the political situation.
Buck up. We’re trying to get this country off it’s roadmap off a cliff.
I still care about the country. I have just come to accept the fact that the Democratic party stands in the way of progress. It cannot be fixed from within (the “better Democrats” schtick). So yes, I’ve realized that playing ball in a rigged game is pointless. I’m not done playing ball. I’m just picking up my ball and playing a new game in a new field. I’m sorry you have yet to realize the game is rigged. You will continue to lose these games until you realize the game rules need to be changed.
So in a way it’s relieving to not have to try to fix the Democratic party anymore. You, and others, convinced me last fall to give the party one more shot (this was after the first FISA capitulation and the Military Commissions Act–among other Dem failures). I gave the party one last shot. I have always been a Democrat and I too wanted to fix the party from within. But the party failed to live up to my very minimal requirements.
I have a few bright lines for a political party and the Democrats have managed to cross almost all of them. They have attempted to repeal habeas corpus, a centuries old founding principle of this country. They have accepted torture. They have accepted war crimes. They have allowed a massive illegal spying campaign against Americans. They have failed to stop an unjust war. The list is much bigger than these few things but these are the core issues the Democratic party has given up on. Some other issues, like failing to stop the wingnut supreme court justices, or not stopping the bankruptcy law of 2005 or Bush’s tax cuts for the rich are close calls as well. But the constitutional issues are bright line issues for me. In sum: I simply have irreconcilable differences with the Democratic party. I agree with them more often than the Republicans but those areas of agreement don’t make up for my core differences with them.
I’ve figured out that playing in a rigged game is foolish. So yes, I’ve taken my ball and gone to play in the field next to the one we’re currently playing in. You can join me or not. I suspect you will be late in figuring out the current game is broken.
The Democratic party is broken beyond repair and I have moved on. I still care. That’s why I am moving on. I’m the fighter. You are the one that is easily defeated. You sold out to Obama for NOTHING except hope. Hope is for suckers. The Democratic party is for suckers. I’m done being a sucker.
I have irreconcilable differences with many Democrats, not the Democratic Party.
Your mistake is in thinking that the Democrats would act like innocents when several of them stand guilty before the court.
It our country that’s broken, including what the people too often tell the politicians to do.
But when it comes to political action, the rubber meats the road when elections happen. And who gets elected and why they feel they got elected is what really changes things.
I didn’t make a mistake in thinking Democrats were innocent. I never thought such nonsense. I never fell for Obama’s schtick. I was convinced to vote for him in the primary because people like you told me we could work to influence Obama and the Democrats and put pressure on them to be more liberal. I foolishly thought Obama and the Democrats would respect us liberals because we have proved to be the most prescient and politically astute members of the party the last few years and it was time to wield our power. But that’s how the Democrats keep playing you for a sucker Booman. You helped get Obama elected and how does the party repay you? The second Obama gets the nomination he shits all over a core liberal issue and tacks to the right. They take you for granted. As they should. All they have to do is let you raise money for a few of the people that pretend like they’re more liberal and then the party and these so-called liberals screw you when it matters.
Look what happened when the rubber met the road on the 4th Amendment. This is were power gets wielded. And the powers-that-be totally ignored you.
You keep getting run over when the rubber hits the road and you say I fail to make practical political calculations? So what have you gotten in exchange for your loyalty? Aside from the tire marks all over your back? Is Obama secretly going to tack to the left once he gets in power? You’re not going to fall for that whopper again, are you?
Unfortunately, I think it’s going to take you a bit longer than it’s taken me to get to the point of giving up on Democrats. They will probably get their huge majorities this fall (and the presidency) and then when even then they don’t throw you any bones maybe you will realize the liberal base is betting on the wrong horse. Or getting nothing in exchange for your troubles. Liberals are losing with their current allies. It’s time to start throwing your weight around elsewhere and to find other allies. Doing so within the Democratic party is a suckers game.
you fundamentally misunderstand the battlefield. I don’t have the option of ‘giving up on the Democrats’ because that is the equivalent of giving up on my country. I’ve written about this endless times, but we do not have proportional representation in this country and we are never going to have it in federal elections. Ever.
There is only one way to right the ship of state, and that is incrementally through the two major parties. Disengagement is its own form of capitulation. Walking off the battlefield will not protect you. You don’t have to believe that one of the two major parties will start acting like a third party to engage within that party’s context. What you can’t do is just accept whatever that party does. If they do bad things the process is to make them pay a price for it and nudge them to do good things.
It should also be clear to you that the battle during the nomination was not some bet that Barack Obama would govern like we would like him to, but the rock bottom certainty that the Clintonistas would not. Not only that, but the Clintonistas are and have been active opponents of the whole reform movement.
What we bought with Obama was oxygen.
We haven’t bought it yet.
Currently I am rather disgusted with the man, but he is our only decent bet for survival right now. Just keep repeating “climate change” over and over.
I’m just curious what your bright lines are. Is there any thing the Democrats could do that would imperil your support?
Where we disagree is that you think there is only one way to change your country and that’s by playing by the rules that have been set up only in the last 25 years or so. American political parties have died or have changed or have sprung up out of nowhere. I don’t want to go into detail here (we need to leave something to talk about later) but I think there is another better way of moving the country to the left.
My main point is that we liberals need to reach the acceptance stage. The acceptance that loyalty to the Democratic party hurts our cause and does not make it better. That’s where I am. I understand you’re not there yet. But don’t mistake my acceptance as giving up. I feel like I am being more productive than you because I’m doing the hard work of preparing for the next battle. You’re still fighting an old battle you’re guruanteed to lose.
You don’t see the death spiral you’re in. You (and Dem liberals in general) have demonstrated zero ability to influence Democrats this year, a dream year for political lefties. You will never have such a perfect political storm that is ripe for the Democratic party to move to the left. This is your chance to influence the party and it was a dud. A big dud. I still haven’t seen one bone that was thrown to lefties during this long contested primary season. Not one. I’m seeing the usual bones being thrown to the right-wing.
When the next terrorist attack occurs or in 4 years after the media and the GOP has again joined forces to attack the sitting Democratic administration the Democrats will be moving yet again to the right and you will yet again claim that we need to support the gentler kinder fascists (Democrats) or the truly evil ones will take over.
It will be painful in the short term but the ONLY long term hope we have is to start fighting for liberalism and stop fighting for Democrats. The Democratic party is dead. It’s not funny. I”m not happy about it. But that’s the reality. Obama is a sweet elixer that you are drinking to give you hope. But you will wake up hungover and in worse shape than if you decide to do the hard work now. It’s sad and all that. But it was pretty simple. I had very few bright lines that could not be crossed . . . . and I pleaded with them not to cross these lines . . . but the Democrats listen to some right-wing rube in Appalachia more than they listen to me. So we’re getting divorced.
The Clintons crossed my bright line in South Carolina (what is it with that state anyway?)
Remember?
Since you didn’t provide any description of the ‘work’ you plan on doing outside of the ‘rules’, it is impossible to judge your prospects.
However, you are not doing a particularly good job of describing what I am doing.
Even you would have to recognize that the only people that really agree with you on your bright line issues and that are currently holding office or running for office with any prospect of success, are Democrats.
The FISA capitulation can be explained in two basic ways. Number one, Nancy Pelosi and Jay Rockefeller (among a few others) were briefed on these crimes and they did nothing publicly about them at the time. They are effectively engaged in a cover-up. However, that cover-up would not be possible without the Blue Dog coalition aligning themselves with the Republicans to force this bill to the floor. Pelosi and Rockefeller needed that excuse to be able to sell this to the rest of the caucus.
I can bitch and moan about Pelosi and Rockefeller and the Blue Dogs all I want, but I know that the solution is to stregthen the 128 Democrats that opposed this and weaken the 105 that supported it.
It’s a tall order. It starts with this:
You see? If nothing else, this is harassment. We’re ruining this guys summer. And he really could lose this race as a direct result of the sizable infusion of cash to Regina Thomas that this FISA bill has wrought.
That’s how things change. Slowly.
I’m not saying I would never vote for a Democrat or support a Democrat. I’m a pragmatist and will work with Democrats when necessary. I will just not be loyal or help the Democratic party as an institution. In fact, I will go outside the party whenever I can. The Democratic party is irrevocably broken but in the interim we have to use some of the broken pieces. Just like the Republican party that replaced the Whig party there will be a lot of overlap. But when a party ceases to serve its core function, a party of people that share core values, it either reinvents itself or dies.
But I will support some Democrats. I will probably only support Democrats in situations like the one you just cited–in a primary to replace a bad Dem with a good Dem. So good for you and I hope we take Barrow out.
How about we take Pelosi out as well? Let’s get Golub or Sheehan in there instead. Do you have the guts to support a third party instead of a Democrat if that is viable? No better place to start that than in San Francisco.
And I will be donating to the ACLU and other similar issue groups. I am especially pleased that Greenwald has set up the PAC he has set up. That’s where liberals should be throwing their weight around. Screw this working on the inside of a failed Democratic party crap.
First, get your diagnosis correct.
However you or I feel about the Democratic Party the facts remain:
Barack Obama is a heavy favorite to win the presidency.
The Democrats are going to win somewhere between one and four dozen house seats in November, giving them the biggest caucus (from either party) in the last 30 years.
The Democrats are going to win 4-11 Senate seats, possibly giving them a filibuster proof majority.
Yes, it’s possible that Obama can lose, and we might get only the low end on the congressional pick-ups. But it’s not likely.
A party that is poised to absolutely dominate is not on it’s way out or about to get replaced by a Whig Party. It isn’t happening.
So, whatever you do, keep in mind that the Democratic Party is almost definitely going to be the governing, dominant party for the foreseeable future. And if any party is going to disintegrate and get reborn as a new party, it’s the Republican Party.
And they ought to be a LOT more concerned about their privacy rights than they are.
I’m sure the Whig party would have swept to at least one landslide victory in the 1850s if it had decided to silence the anti-slavery rabble in its party and gone with a pro-slavery candidate. By tacking to the “right” the Whig party would have been able to temporarily co-opt the middle and would have remained relevant for a while longer. The anti-slavery folks would have had no viable alternative and it would have appeared that the Whigs were on the verge of great things. Instead, the liberal base in the Whig party insisted that the party stand up for its core beliefs, in that case, an anti-slavery platform, and nominated a firebrand crazy liberal anti-slavery candidate for president.
Of course, the modern Democratic party just kicked the analogous anti-slavery people in its party in the teeth and said, screw you. It’s like a Whig party that just decided to act like the Democratic party so they can say, “sure” we want to end slavery but we can’t and what are you going to do, vote for the guys that will expand slavery? You’re stuck with the Whigs and remember the Whigs aren’t as bad as the Democrats. Sure, the Whigs may have just passed some slavery bills favorable to the Democrats but we they had to do it just before such an important election.
I usually trust your political judgment Booman but I think you’re hoping and not observing when you say the Democratic party is on the verge of great things. More Dems does not mean better Dems or political victory. We just got more Dems in the Congress in 2006 and I actually think we’re worse off for it.
And you’re ignoring the massive rightward shift in issues the party has undergone. A party can’t change it platform so quickly and expect long term success.
I don’t know what you mean by ‘great things’.
I’m not really predicting ‘great things’. I am predicting huge victories.
And here’s the thing about big victories and large defeats. Someone gets credit and someone gets blame. And those narratives wind up having more influence over the shape of politics than anything else.
So, McGovernites have taken the blame for Democratic electoral losses for thirty-five years despite having been right on basically every issue they discussed. That’s the power of political narratives.
When the Republicans get beaten really badly in November there will be a narrative written about why that took place. And depending on both who gets blamed and who gets credit, it will define the parameters of politics for potentially the next 35 years (or the next realignment).
One advantage of John McCain running on Bush’s foreign policy is that the foreign policy will get blame. One advantage of Obama’s 50-state strategy is that it will get credit. You can see where I am going with this.
Realigning elections change the nature of the game. They change the assumptions. They change what people fear and what they think works.
So, I don’t necessarily see great things. I see a different political landscape where the people that formed Obama’s base (progressives, blacks, intellectuals) are no longer pariahs. We won’t be pariahs because we’ll get some of the credit for winning, while the people most responsible for demonizing us will get the lion’s share of the blame.
It’s not going to create any miracles, but it will create a much friendlier habitat.
And what has Barack Obama’s position on the Blue Dogs and Hoyer and Pelosi been? I don’t see many signs of a new poitical landscape when he wins. I see a lot of the same bosses around. The only difference is we now have a young hip black guy as the titular head.
I know you like to think we threw the Clintonistas out of the party so its a win, but is the new guy really that different? If he doesn’t have enough power to stop Pelosi and Hoyer and Rockefeller from covering up their crimes what do we expect to happen when there are more Dems but still have the same leadership? And the newly elected Dems don’t seem to be as good as billed.
And just this week Obama goes to the mat for a Georgia Blue Dog that likes taking dumps on the constitution and voting Republican on everything.
That’s slow change indeed. Lose the 4th Amendment but gain the “hope” that Obama will slowly work to get . . . . something done. Sorry Booman, I don’t see it. Maybe I’m not doing your argument justice but I don’t see how Obama changes things other than he is slightly less reprehensible than the odious Clintons.
He seems to have no problem leaving a corrupt and compromised Dem leadership in place.
We have much different bright lines. Yours has to do with a campaigning style and mine has to do with policy.
Both are valid.
But I think the Democrats as a whole crossed the line on style when they let their fear of being called “weak” rule their world. I thought Obama was slightly different and would finally look tough by standing up to the bullies. But no. He’s now denounced his church and pastor and is otherwise backtracking on everything that gave me initial hope. Now that it’s the GE Obama is starting to do what Democrats always do, they tack to the right to prove they are tough and to counteract the anticipated right-wing attacks. They don’t realize that this very act is what kills them every time.
But my bigger problem is they always are so willing to tack to the right on policy. The Republicans have owned them for decades now.
The only argument I have with your comment, SFHawkguy is that where you write “failed”, you should have written “refused”. “Failed” makes it seem like the tried: “refused” indicates the willfulness of their shortcomings.
It’s not “failure” when Reid brings the FISA bill that includes immunity to the floor or doesn’t honor Dodd’s hold (while honoring GOP holds): that was done on purpose with malice aforethought.
Right on. They have not failed, they have not even tried (see my comment below regarding the occupation and attempted takeover of Iraq, aka “war”).
“They have failed to stop an unjust war.“
Not quite accurate. They have failed to even TRY to stop it.
And Obama has no intention of trying to stop it either. At best he will try to lower its profile somewhat. That, of course, will likely have the effect of making it less intolerable, and thereby reduce the already insipid opposition to it.
It IS a funny thing. And what’s also funnier is how it’s going to look if Barrow has his ass handed to him.
I don’t know what’s going to happen in Philly (not much news about how our reps voted on FISA in our paper of record either, but I sure wish our local Blue Dogs and sellouts were facing progressive challengers. I’d hate to see a GOOPer replace either, but when you fuck with my rights you’re running down my country, and you’re walking on the fighting side of me.
I think it might depend on who runs the voting in that area of Georgia… real people & paper ballots? Or Diebold machines?
I happened to watch This Week this week (not sure why), and they didn’t mention FISA. But they did talk about Obama’s huge flip-flop on public financing…without mentioning his huge number of donors, refusal to take special interest money, and McCain’s own FEC shenanigans.
(The best summary of the new FISA bill I’ve found is here.)
Ever think maybe Barrow is a friend that helped Obama when he needed it.
Maybe he co-sponsored a bill or changed his position to pass something.
Booman Tribune is one of the best up and coming sites, I will never leave. At least till I’m banned.
But the guy is a Democrat. Not every Democrat is in a district that is full of liberals.
I worked on a race in Indiana. Yeah, I would have loved it if the guy was like my congressman Jesse Jackson Jr. But he wasn’t. And he was running against an incubmnet Republican and beat him. But it still is a rural Indiana district and for them to go Dem was huge. I knew the minute I heard he won, Dems had picked up the House.
It’s a long hard battle. There will be many times you may be disappointed. But if the blogs are going to keep up this shit that Obama is the same as McCain because of one issue.
Then you will get McCain. I would think the Nader love would have taught a little lesson.
Remember. Gore is the same as Bush. A lot of the left said that. Well, were they right?
Then why do it again. When Obama wins he will be everything you hope for. Roosevelt ran as a centrist, BTW. So I guess back then they should have voted for Hoover.
“When Obama wins he will be everything you hope for.“
On what fantasy to you base THAT interesting statement?
Do the Gallup or other pollsters ever include (“e) None of the above” in their polls? Because I’d like to hope that Nader would get even lower poll ratings than our reliable pal, MR. None of the Above.
In such a case, even Naderite nonsense might finally be diffused.