The most trusted name in news, or as the freepers like to call it the Communist News Network, has finally asked the burning question we’ve all been to scared out of our wits to bring up in polite conversation: Is Obama the Anti-Christ? No really, they did on the air:
That such a subject is even speculated about in any but the most backwards, unreconstructed segments of American society — let alone on a 24-hour cable network — is a testament (no pun intended) to the depths to which political debate has fallen. But there was the caption on CNN Friday in big bold letters: “OBAMA THE ANTICHRIST?”
Apparently a not-insignificant number of Americans, after viewing John McCain’s Web ad The One, with its Messianic overtones — come away thinking that Barack Obama has been sent from Hell to Earth to turn its citizens against God. For inspiration, some of these people seem to be drawing from the fictional Left Behind series, which posits a dystopian future where the Anti-Christ comes to Earth as a charismatic politician.
Yeah, liberal media my ass. McCain puts up an ad with the express purpose of raising this question sotto voce so all the fundamentalist Christians won’t stay home this November but will come out to vote for our Johnny Mac, and what does CNN do? They make his point for him in the most obvious fashion by devoting actual air time to a discussion of this tripe.
Then again they are the network of Lou Dobbs and Glenn Beck, so I suppose I shouldn’t be surprised. Still, can you believe this crap? I think Obama should sue CNN for an illegal in kind political contribution.
there you go again steven, wishing in one hand while obama shits in the other…guess which one’s filling up.
far from suing cnn, or even taking offense, he’s participating in a faux “debate” tonight with the pastor of the 4th largest “mega-church” in the country. [starts in about half an hour, btw].
it could be argued that his participation is smart “politics”, or maybe something more base. for all l know at this juncture, this whole thing could be nothing more than a cruel hoax that’s being perpetrated on us. suffice it to say, l really don’t like the direction this campaign, and country is headed…not that l have for the past 9 years…and l’ve got a bad feeling that this isn’t going to turn out anything like the expectations.
we shall see. as Boo, and others, have said, the coming 3 weeks are going to be real interesting.
I hate to break it to you, but the definition of “liberal” does not include antireligious, much to some people’s chagrin.
I was raised Catholic and liberal both. In fact, Pope John XXIII was quite a liberal, supporting liberation theology and helping to modernize the church with Vatican II.
There are large numbers of liberal Christians, liberal Jews, liberal Muslims, liberal Buddhists, etc.
Don’t assume that someone talking about religion is simply pandering.
l don’t need you to educate me on the definition of liberal lisa. where did l espouse anything that would be considered anti-religious?
l don’t give a two penny damn about obamas’ religion, mccains’, yours, or anyone elses. l was responding to stevens’ call for obama to take a stand against cnn, etal who have chosen to make it an issue.
what l want is the separation of church and state, but that doesn’t appear to be attainable, does it?
they, the media, candidates, whomever, can talk about religion till they turn blue for all l care, just not within the context of a political campaign and a criteria for office.
knee jerk reactions/comments like yours are not productive, and frankly, annoy me.
g’day.
I have some mixed thoughts on expressing myself on this topic. I was just reading some agricultural Eastern philosophy which made an excellent and simple point. The very short version — there is no good without bad, and therefore taking sides in a debate to some extent separates one from mere existence and propels one into an artificially created human construct. So, liking this thought, I suppose I should adopt it an just avoid engaging in this issue.
But on the other hand, I sense a general hegemony that props up religious thought in America, and allows it to seep into the debates on all issues now. And I am so strongly partisan in my own understanding on this topic — and I also believe that too few of us from this perspective stand up and say this in open public on a regular basis — that I’ll jump in and say it. As I did recently in another comment.
It is simple. And I know many here agree (and equally many probably think it is awful for an atheist to say it out loud). But there is no evidence for any god. No evidence for unicorns. And precious little evidence for the Montauk Monster. Or, sadly, the Flying Spaghetti Monster. As rational beings, we should reject the irrational, especially when it starts to get in the way of policy, elections, etc. For those religiously oriented liberals, soft agnostics, etc., who are unwilling to confront this reality — I’m afraid that your own willingness to participate in this mass suspension of disbelief with the other religious fundamentalist in this country (with so many truly ridiculous variations on how their particular imaginary sky god takes an active interest in our lives) only encourages this silly debate about religious topics over important issues.
If everyone just started laughing hysterically every time someone mentioned their imaginary friend and his/her/its impact on world events — then perhaps we could all encourage people to keep their imaginary deities to themselves — and perhaps CNN would stop assisting in publishing such tripe.
I’m saying that by failing to openly question unsupported, silly religious viewpoints when they are bandied about in public debates, those of us who are full atheists are allowing it to happen.
It is fucking sad that our leader goes to China, and on a worldwide broadcast talks about how China is ready to accept Christianity. Someday, if that tape survives long enough, and if this planet survives long enough, his words will be studied by future homo sapiens and mused at in the same way we would find it quaint and ridiculous that a Viking thanked Odin after he was successfully raided a village. It is ridiculous.
Seriously. Examine your deity — for those “believers” — and understand, for crying out loud, that you are nearly as much of an atheist as BostonJoe (and others here) with respect to all other fictional gods that have come before. As is very popular to say nowadays. We are just atheists about one more god.
I’m one atheist who is just completely fed up with having to respect the views of believers, and being questioned or challenged when we happen to point out that the idea of all gods is kind of stupid. It is kind of stupid to base any life decision based on a fairy tale. And I seriously believe the environment of giving open respect to fairy tale worshipers leads to CNNs injecting this junk into a national election.
There. I feel a lot less zen now.
Enjoy the way you express yourself Boston Joe.
I suppose if I had to pick an anti-christ, it would be the corporate structure that has been given human rights. An intelligent and amoral structure in which individual humans are subsumed.
The whole religious angle is being brought to us by those who focus on the bottom line – measured in financial quarters. More “circus” than anything, imo. Rejecting the current “circus,” without commenting on the structure that is presenting the circus just touches the surface.
You want to touch the third rail? Challenge the corporate structure and capitalism (corporatism) – whooeee – now that is challenging the culture’s real religion!
“As rational beings…” – this often strikes me as funny cause I don’t see a whole lot of evidence that humans are “rational beings,” individually or in groups. Even in those without an imaginary friend š
Consider money. It is nothing yet it becomes something because all who come into contact with it agree it has value. An illusion. How rational is that?
I don’t see a whole lot of evidence that humans are “rational beings”…
That strikes me as funny since the essence of a rational being is to demand evidence before believing (and acting).
So what are you, anyway? The Flying Soba Monster?
Maybe it is the word “evidence” that is confusing.
Humans work to make sense of the world. It has fascinated me to watch little children work to understand words, concepts… Think about trying to explain the difference between a cat and a dog. Yet 3 year olds are able to do this if they are in environments with cats and dogs and older humans saying things like, “See the cat!” Or, “No, that’s a dog.”
The whole process follows the “scientific method” of hypothesizing (guessing or predicting) then confirming or correcting. We do this with many things. So “evidence” doesn’t need to be attached only to “rational.”
What is “The Flying Soba Monster?”
“Evidence” = “reason to believe”. (Not necessarily conclusive reason; conclusive evidence = conclusive reason to believe.)
“Rational” = “guided by reason”.
These equations are not my invention.
The process you describe, involving the three-year-olds, is what I would call part of the cultivation of rationality (as well as the acquisition, both from the adults and from sensory perception, of reasons to believe this or that).
I suspect their may be some confusion between us that results from your regarding “rational” as meaning something other than (and perhaps more grandiose than) “guided by reason”. What do you take the word to mean?
“I suspect there,” not “I suspect their,” obviously.
I associate “rational” with “logical.” And “logical” leads to: “systematic, orderly, coherent.” So when someone suggests humans are “rational” I interpret it as, “Humans are systematic, orderly, coherent.” Then I consider behaviors of most humans I know, including myself, and it makes me laugh.
Now I know it is possible to learn to think “rationally” and “logically,” to be able to “reason.” But so often we have “wants” and “needs” that drive us, then we work to cover them or justify them with “reasons,” so we can do what we want to do.
I consider “beliefs” much more powerful than “reasons.” And we acquire those beliefs, form them from birth onward. Beliefs about self, others, good, bad, right, wrong… well before the frontal lobe of the brain has developed. I’m really talking more about psychology than religion.
Thanks for engaging.
Remember “A family that prays together is brainwashing the kids.” We have all been touched by this brainwashing in some way. Its tough to overcome.
i think cnn just handed obama the fundie vote. they can’t get raptured without it!
CNN didn’t do their homework. That issue was settled No? LaHaye of the Left Behind group already debunked that Obama is not the anti-Christ.
Who gives LaHaye the authority to decide? LOL!!
Good point… “Go Rapture! God, you’re either with him or against him…”
I’ve already posted my thoughts on this…
I don’t reckon too many of those folks were going to vote for Obama anyway.
Besides, it’s much more likely that George Bush is the Antichrist.
http://www.amazon.com/George-Bush-Antichrist-Stephen-Hanchett/dp/1411609832
Look at who owns CNN now, and you can define its perspective.
This is a scary time for those who can’t control the media; what comes out of CNN is outrageously biased.
Progressives find it very funny that people might consider Obama the “antiChrist.” But this is very, very serious. There are “dog whistles” in all of McCain’s messages.
Wow it sailed right by me. Chris Hitchens wrote about the effects of the Left Behind series in “The God Delusion”. Many in the religious right are reading those books and have their thinking influenced by them. The AntiChrist eh? McCain needs to be institutionalized what kind of a freaking campaign is he running? What the fuck is wrong with my country? We are like Spain 400 years ago. That didn’t turn out well for them.
Make that Hitchens book “God is not Great.” Dawkins wrote “The God Delusion.”
I like this book better
http://www.whitehorsemedia.com/products/details.cfm?prod=13
Streaming
Rapture Delusions
Antichrist Delusions
Israel Delusions
Will Christians vanish in a rapture? Will seven years of apocalyptic terror overtake those left behind? Will earth’s nations attack Israel at Armageddon? Best selling books like “Left Behind” and popular apocalyptic movies predict such things. Are they correct? Steve Wohlberg’s most comprehensive book on Bible prophecy separates facts from speculative fiction and reveals what the Bible really teaches about Earth’s last days.
but I’ll tolerate it for a few features. Columnist Colbert King is an example.
His latest column, Memo From a Poison Penn, is a must-read. He takes on Mark Penn, and asking some of the same questions I’ve had, too. You should read the whole thing, but it ends this way (emphasis mine):
Why, indeed.
For the same reason that many candidates resort to all forms of negative campaigning – it too often works.
Oh, of course. But I think King wanted to shine a bright light on who Penn is, and also afflict the comfortable.
If they wouldn’t have dealings with an avowed supremacist–and the memos show there’s not a lot of day light between the two–then why is getting business, and holding court among the Georgetown salon set?
IOW, why is he still seen as “respectable”?
Good question. Why is he?
That’s a good question in terms of respectability. He’s like our own little Turd Blossom, without the blossom…
This charade at Rick Warren’s uber white, Orange County mega church is precisely the bullshit that our founders were against and therefore wrote in our Constitution that there shall be no religious test for any office in the United States.
Bear with me on this next stuff. The question to ask about Hitler’s regime in Germany during the last century is not about Hitler but about the German people. What was wrong with the German people and society that allowed them to be hoodwinked by Hitler? We can ask the same question about America. What is wrong with American society and the American people that allowed and continues to allow them to be hoodwinked by our contemporary Nazis the Republican Party? The answer in both cases is the spiritual disease of ignorance about the very nature of reality. The existence of this spiritual disease is demonstrated by anyone who believes that there is such a thing as an anti-Christ, rapture, or any other millennialist, apocalyptic escape from the reality of good and evil in this world. Right wing Christianity is a spiritual disease with an existential ignorance at its core. The solution to this disease is not political, but spiritual. Unfortunately, the Rick Warrens and CNNs of this world are carriers.