We keep getting stories, with a varying lack of detail, that say Congress is ‘close’ to a deal on a Big Shitpile bailout bill. I am not skeptical about the lawmakers’ nearness to an agreement on the language of the bill, but I can’t avoid wondering how in the hell they are going to get anyone one to vote for it.
Senator Barbara Boxer, Democrat of California, has received nearly 17,000 e-mail messages, nearly all opposed to the bailout, her office said. More than 2,000 constituents called Ms. Boxer’s California office on Tuesday alone; just 40 favored the bailout. Her Washington office received 918 calls. Just one supported the rescue plan.
Senator Sherrod Brown, Democrat of Ohio, said he had been getting 2,000 e-mail messages and telephone calls a day, roughly 95 percent opposed. When Senator Bernard Sanders, the Vermont independent who votes with Democrats, posted a petition on his Web site asking Mr. Paulson to require that taxpayers receive an equity stake in the bailed-out companies, more than 20,000 people signed.
“We certainly have never brought in 20,000 names in a day and a half,” Mr. Sanders said, sounding astonished. “For us, that’s off the wall.”
…Representative Ray LaHood, Republican of Illinois, said he had not seen such an outpouring since President Bill Clinton’s impeachment trial in 1999.
Now, one way to get support for the bill is to address some of the concerns that people are expressing in these contacts to lawmakers. Making sure the bailout doesn’t pay for excessive executive compensation is one piece. Granting an equity share (public ownership) of the rescued firms, as Bernie Sanders suggested, is another. But, with a spontaneous outpouring like this, it’s doubtful that people will be overly appeased by the details. They want Wall Street punished, not rescued, even if that would ultimately hurt the overall economy.
Skepticism about the efficacy and necessity of this bill is not limited to the raving horde. Even the experts on the financial services sector are doubtful that the plan is well structured and absolutely necessary. The main problem is that the bailout is trying to do two things simultaneously, using a tool that is not well-positioned to take care of either of them. If the object is to restore liquidity to the credit markets, then this plan is a very expensive and inefficient way of doing it. We will wind up overpaying for assets. If the object is to rescue firms at risk of bankruptcy, an huge infusion of cash makes sense, but the mechanism contemplated in the bill is horribly inefficient because we will infuse cash into sick and healthy firms alike.
Under the plan, Treasury will buy up assets, and they will try to get a fair price for them. Insofar as they get a fair price for them, it will cost the taxpayers nothing. If you spend $100 for a share of stock, you have merely swapped cash for something of equal value. In this case, putting cash into the credit system can free up lenders to make new loans. That’s good. But, if you haven’t expended any value (because you obtained a fair price), then the lender hasn’t gathered any value. From the standpoint of financial health, the lender is still broke. To improve the lender’s books you have to overpay for their assets. The real cost of the bailout will be a measure of the degree to which the Federal Government overpays.
This is a very indirect way of bailing out a failing financial institution, and it involves doing things at cross-purposes. You are setting up systems (like reverse auctions) to try to assure you get a fair price, but part of the point is to overpay. That seems like a recipe for an ethical catastrophe. But, even worse, the use of reverse auctions (and the like) assures that you will wind up buying assets from the lowest bidder, not necessarily from the firm with the greatest need of a bailout. It’s a very inefficient way of doing a rescue.
This isn’t to say that the plan will not accomplish what it sets out to do. It’s number one goal is to restore trust in the books of lending firms so that they will be more willing to lend each other money. Along with that, the goal is to avoid panic in the markets. The plan may succeed in this. But it will certainly cost more than is necessary.
Giving the taxpayer an equity stake in the rescued firms will help. But we will have to see the details of the plan to know how well insulated the taxpayer will be against massive losses.
If I were designing this plan, it would look nothing like this. And I remain unsure just how the bill’s crafters are going to convince members of Congress to ignore the ratio of voter contacts against the bailout.
Getting agreement on the language in the bill will be significantly easier than passing it.
Why is everyone letting the Bush administration lead them around by the nose on this?
What changed in one week (!) that we now have to give over a trillion dollars to the financial services industry? For a year Bush, McCain, Paulson, and gang have been saying everything’s fine. Then they reverse course and hold a gun to our heads, play politics, and you guys treat this seriously.
Now you guys are willing to sign a huge deal under pressure because Mr. 18% says he needs it? How big of suckers are you?
And now the range of debate is set. Simply not succumbing to this financial terrorism is “lefty populist” economics. As if it’s entirely normal, or even helpful, to give the keys to the treasury to criminals who endangered the U.S. economy.
This is INSANE.
Let’s take this money from Wall Street and put it into a Social Security lockbox. That is a far better use of a couple trillion dollars istead of letting Wall Street devour it only to have the problem rear it’s ugly head even worse in a couple of months.
It’s useless to treat this as if we don’t have a huge problem.
If you haven’t noticed, the five biggest financial services corporations have been wiped out. Bear Stearns was bought up. Lehman Bros. went broke. Merrill Lynch was bought up. And Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley converted to banks.
AIG is now publicly owned.
There is a credit crunch. It’s not a myth.
The problem with the bailout is not that it addresses a problem that doesn’t exist or that can be safely ignored.
The problem is the inefficiency and possible insufficiency of the solution being proffered here.
I, more than most, have been very aware of the problems facing the economy. I have been worried about this problem for almost a year now and have followed it closely. I advised everyone I could of the impending doom. It’s you Johnny-come-latelies that are being led around by the nose by Bush that need an education on the problems of the economy.
Look. The five biggest financial services firms are in trouble because they took huge risks in an unregulated Wild-West market. They played by the rules–there were none. Under capitalism, players that take big risks can earn big rewards. And these firms did. They earned trillions in earnings and paid out nice dividends to shareholders (as well as rising stock prices) and compensation to the workers and executives. It now turns out these profits were false, paper profits, and our whole economy was endangered so these guys could suck out huge profits. So, even though the rules were known, that risk takers (stockholders, bondholders, purchasers of CDOs, etc) could win or could lose, they want to change the rules mid game now that there are no more profits but only huge debts. They want all of the profits on the upside, and none of the losses on the downside.
There could be 10 trillion in bad debt that these gamblers amassed. We DON’T KNOW. It seems almost certain to me that this couple of trillion we will throw at the guilty crminals that got us into this mess will be devoured tout suite. So there will be pain no matter what. This won’t fix it. Our economy is over leveraged. Average Americans are overleveraged. We can’t keep adding to our debt. Debt WILL be destroyed in the coming years. The question is who bears the pain. We all have to bear some pain because we all allowed our economy to be hijacked by Bush Republican supply sider fools. But who bears most of the costs. Under capitalism, it used to be the fools that took the chances and were even rewarded hansomely for these risks. Now Bush and Obama want to pass that pain on to the taxpayer.
But it’s time to worry about the taxpayer balance sheet and not Wall Street’s balance sheets. We need to protect our assets and keep our liabilities down. Pain is coming regardless. Why blow the little money we can afford to spend on buying bad debt? Let’s put it to productive use for the po folk. Let’s shore up social security for instance.
Let’s have this conversation in a year. If you’re still a Democrat then . . . we are really screwed. I thought you would be one of the first to realize how screwed we really are but you seem to be hanging on to the false hope of 3rd way, Clintonian-style Republican-lite politics. It’s doomed to fail. You will get your Hoover.
to parrot a phrase –
“There could be 10 trillion in bad debt that these gamblers amassed. We DON’T KNOW. It seems almost certain to me that this couple of trillion we will throw at the guilty crminals that got us into this mess will be devoured tout suite.”
Yes we do but we won’t tell ya.
“It’s the derivatives, stupid,” listed and OTC derivatives.
BIS sourced: last reported June 2008, it’s a quadrillion, in fact, one thousand trillion, 140 billion. OTC derivatives last reported stood at $596 trillion (notional value that becomes full face value if counterparty defaults )and list Credit derivatives $548 trillion.
Take just one segment CDS – credit default swaps – in 2001 stood at $919 billion. At November 2007 a whopping $45.1 trillion and today the figure is $62 trillion.
Yea that’s a shitpile.
I’m taking bets that $700 billion is a pinky band aid.
Don’t let your guard down. This little caper gives us some more time to prepare our affairs. It’ll be brutal as we hyper-inflate away this debt.
BTW, let’s see if McCain votes against the bailout.
I’m looking out for myself, that’s for sure.
I mostly got out of the stock market last year around this time (and actually the little I left in was net short). I’ve attacked my debt and have substantially simplified my expenses.
It’s time to invest like my depression-era grandparents did.
Seek safe harbor. We certainly can’t count on the government to fairly and justly manage (or “fix” as Bush says) the unwinding of our debt economy. It’s very clear that Bush and the Dems will give as much to the corporate elite as they can before this all comes crashing down. It’s maddening. But one has to look after himself first.
And I totally agree with you on McCain punking the Democrats—again!
If here were smart he would pretend to vote for the bill so Obama does and then not vote for it. We’ll see. He may just be perfectly content to have the current situation play out–Obama signing on and taking responsibility for the failed economy. Like I noted elsewhere, this will reverberate for generations. Rightly so. This is the Day the Democrats finally did the dirty deed and stabbed Joe American in the back.
BushCheney and Paulson were keeping fingers crossed this would blow up after the elections – sometime in February. Good thing it happened now. It blew on their watch.
Btw,
Retirement, pensions, savings and dreams up in smoke. A world of angry people will be on the streets.
I don’t know why I even bother trying to root for the Democrats. They are such political retards. It’s so obvious what will happen. Obama is preening about winning a silly debate while he gets punked on the biggest legislative boondoggle in a generation. And I’m talking a bigger blunder than AUMF, the patriot act, or FISA.
Obama totally would have got punked on the AUMF as well–Hillary was right. His instincts are horrible. He ALWAYS supports the worst enabling Democratic tendencies. One would have to be a complete sucker to have hope that Obama can do anything productive. But then again we appear to be a nation of suckers.
It’s time for the real American patriots to band together. Time for the Ron Pauls and Noam Chomskies to join forces. The Democrats are going down the road of the Whigs (or the Republicans are and the Democrats will simply take the place of the right-wing corporatist party).
The writing is on the wall folks. Our standard of living is changing for generations. Now all of a sudden the extraconstitutional crimes of Bush and the Dems might seem more important to average Americans.
It’s quite clear the Democrats are guilty as charged. They might have been the feeble co-conspirator of the even more culpable Republicans but they are guilty nevertheless. Time to wake up and punish the evildoers. Bush and his enabling Democratic traitor cowards.
Your diary really helped make things clearer, Boo — nice job.
But now they’re getting muddier again. Why, exactly, do “we” have a problem because “Bear Stearns was bought up. Lehman Bros. went broke. Merrill Lynch was bought up. And Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley converted to banks. AIG is now publicly owned.”? Looks to me like it’s THEIR problem. Until their CEOs are sleeping in doorways and their shareholders and bondholders are all in the “rescue” pot, why are the citizens the resource of first resort?
I’m not ideologically opposed to government meddling in the economy. If the GM loan/subsidy goes to developing plugin hybrids and buyers get a break because of that investment, fine. But as Kevin Phillips points out, what we are suffering from now is a switch of the reigns of power from the military/industrial class to the military/financial class. No government money should be used to keep them out of the pit. If their ascendancy is the root of our economic decline, then preventing their descent only exacerbates our problem.
You know what really solidified my attitude on this? Paulson worrying that CEOs might not accept the bailout if it included anything about the lucre they “earned” for their stewardship. Well, if you see somebody struggling in the water and you throw them a life preserver, if they start arguing about what it might cost them, they don’t need the life preserver. So why the hell are we even talking about throwing them one?
The failure of the financial services sector isn’t a bad thing in itself. My point is that it’s pointless to act like there isn’t a problem. A lot of lefties are asking, “why don’t we just let the market sort this out?” as if they were righties.
No one is going to take that critique seriously regardless of what side it comes from.
A lot of lefties are also overstating their case against the bailout by using misleading statistics or strawman arguments.
If you buy a defaulted mortgage, you still get the property. If you buy a bundle of at-risk mortgages, you get a lot of good mortgages in the deal. This thing is not going to cost the taxpayers the full amount. If we invest $700 billion or $1.2 trillion, we are going to own assets amounting to 25% of that in a worst-case scenario. The news that taxpayers will get an equity stake in this bill could mean dramatically less cost.
The problem with the bailout is not that it is unnecessary, but that it appears to be poorly structured and inefficient. It’s not helpful to portray it is throwing money at CEO’s, or rewarding people that don’t deserve or need the help. Even if you could care less about the jobs of thousands of people that work at banks and other lending and financial institutions, you should care about the damage a credit crunch will do to ordinary people, the loss of jobs, the loss of 401(k) and other retirement value, etc.
I don’t like the way this bill is structured and don’t think I’ll be supporting it. But it’s the inefficiency of the solution that really troubles me, not the bailout itself.
i feel similarly. I’m not opposed to a bailout if it’s necessary, but this?
Meh. No thank you.
Well, you seemed to present the part I quoted as evidence that this is a real crisis. Your argument above seems mostly specious: I’m supposed to care so much about the jobs of thousands of people who work at banks that I’m willing to further bankrupt the country to keep their incompetent businesses solvent? I can’t believe you really mean that. We’ve lost around 600,000 jobs so far this year. Why would we cherry pick the ones in this sector to “save”?
It may not be “helpful” to say, but the Paulson proposal IS throwing money at executives who would have at least had the grace to leap out of high windows in 1929.
I have no problem with rational government intervention to avert a credit crunch — ie, protecting good banks, etc., from an undeserved panic caused by the bad banks. There seems to be nothing in the Paulson proposal that distinguishes between the two.
Maybe it’s the term “structured” that’s throwing me off. To me, the Paulson proposal looks much worse than just a structural matter. Any action needs to be based from the ground up, and that can’t get done by tomorrow. So I’m not sure which bill it is that you won’t be supporting. About all I’ll be supporting is a vague statement of intent to intervene after intense investigation. Otherwise this is just AUMF and Patriot and the rest of the Bush bully game all over again. It has to stop, and now is the time.
The “problem” with the bail-out is precisely the rationale of the bail-out. The question to ask is: what is this bail-out supposed to accomplish primarily? Answer: to keep the banks lending and prevent a Hyman Minsky type debt deflation and all the needless economic suffering it entails. Paradoxically, this objective can only be achieved if the banks don’t do “the virtuous thing” which would be tightening their belts, slowly cleaning up their balance sheets by de-leveraging and lending less. If one, or a few banks, did that, it would be fine, but the banking sector doing that in the aggregate spells disaster — for the very banks doing the belt tightening and of course the rest of us. It’s a case of suicide by way of virtue. Therefore paradoxically the optimum bail-out is one that will make the banks want to shed their mortgage-backed securities. That means at least marginally overpaying for them yes. However, the government can marginally overpay without automatically incurring a loss, because of its drastically lower financing costs. Aside from the hard-core sackcloth and ashes crowd, everybody benefits, even if many don’t realize it now. Bush, as usual, did an absolutely horrendous job explaining this bail-out last night.
Today my E-Mail contained an alternative solution to the AIG bailout. This person just divided the $85 million by the approximate number of taxpayers and declared a dividend of $425,000.00 for us all. Less taxes of course..
I wonder how far 700 Billion will go if we use the same formula?
I called up mr. casey’s office (arlen’s office told me they’re not pleased with the bailout) and asked the young woman answering the phone if she was from PA. When she said she was, I askedher if she remembered what happened in the aftermath of Harrisburg’s pay raise, or if she knew that people were STILL losing elections over it:
I asked her if anyone had called in in favor of the bailout. No, no one she’d spoken to. Did Senator casey REALLY want to go down that route, knowing how angry everyone from left to right is?
She said she’d pass the message along.
Casey is lucky … he’s not up again till 2012 .. but it will be interesting if he decides to run for Gov. .. when Easy Ed’s time is up .. Snarlin’ Arlen is up in 2010 … and I intend to help send the bastard packing .. whether he retires .. or has to be voted out
I’m pleased that they’ve announced “A Deal has been reached” before going to the White House for photo ops.
It shuts down McCain being able to claim “I rescued”
The former head of the Resolution Trust Corp (the enitity set up for the S&L bailouts decades ago) was interviewed by BBC radio last night.
Hmmm. When asked if the $700 billion would cover the problem he opined, “No, it’s in the trillions” and then bit his tongue, duck taped his lips.
Hey, it’s like I need $10,000 billion and you offer to pitch in seven cents.
What do they do next?
The rest of the world isn’t fooled
FT:(reg.req.)
US `will lose financial superpower status’
yeah because it’s their money.
Thanks for the interesting link. But there’s this:
I’m surprised Steinbrück likes the giveaway: either he hasn’t payed attention to the details, or he’s glad that Paulson said that the US would also buy toxic securities from foreigners.
This is probably the most balanced post I have read on the bailout. Since I don’t know anything about economics and really can’t judge the issue on my own, I tend to put a lot of trust in professional economists who do have the knowledge to make an informed judgment. So far, it seems that economist bloggers like Brad DeLong and Paul Krugman think the Dodd plan (which includes equity and other measures) is workable.
Last week, I was afraid that Washington Mutual, where I have most of my money, would fail and although it has not been in the news as much this week, I have not heard anything to indicate WaMu is not still in bad shape. I had also heard that Wachovia was in trouble. If there are other banks out there on the verge of collapse as well, then it does seem like it is better to do something now to prevent them from failing than wait until they do. Even when a bank is bought out, and deposits are protected, people can still lose their jobs who worked for the bank so it is not something I take lightly.
I understand the impulse to punish Wall Street, but if that course of action would mean more hurt for ordinary people in the long run then in my view we need to resist that temptation and do the right thing.
WaMu is in trouble. I bet you tomorrow is the day. You should familiarize yourself with Sheila Bair and the FDIC procedures for extracting your money. You’ll get your money back–there just might be a bit of a delay and we taxpayers may have to recapitalize the FDIC. And that’s what the government should be spending it’s money on–individuals with funds under 100K in the bank. But I digress . . .
If you don’t know much about economics surely you know enough not to trust George Bush and his merry band of supply side market fundamentalists in “fixing” the economy.
Surely we have learned that lesson? Shirley?
Calculated Risk, WaMu is cliffdiving
Part of the race is getting this signed off before Wash Mutual opens what’s left of the flood gates.
Yep. This deal has to be done before the next Sunday night game of Deal or No Deal has to be played.
If WaMu crashes before the bailout is on Bush’s desk, it’s DOW LOSES TWELVE HUNDRED POINTS in 72-point type across America.
WaMu closed down another 25% to 1.69 a share, downgraded to junk bond status. It will not survive the weekend.
My point was that people who are not right-wingers or Bush supporters are also saying there is an issue. Unless you think DeLong and Krugman are right-wing Bush supporters? It is to laugh.
I bet you tomorrow is the day.
Make that tonight:
Government Seizes WaMu and Sells Some Assets
I can’t quite figure out from this article how the Feds engineered this so that the FDIC does not need to get involved. So, it was “seized by federal regulators”, but “a takeover by the F.D.I.C.” did not take place. Sounds pretty innovative to me.
I’m pretty sure wachovia is in MASSIVE trouble (although IANA stockbroker or analyst).
I work in the human services field, and read the Chronicle of Philanthropy weekly. It seems almost every issue talks about wachovia’s problems, and the ramification for non-profits.
If i had money there I would take it out immediately and put it anywhere else, including under the mattress.
Marc Ambinder is looking for a McCain surprise
Country first McCain.
Good Post Boo. I agree that something has to be done probably by our government but NOT this nor this quickly either. If tax payers get equity and safeguards from getting screwed, then I would begrudingly support this deal. I was talked into the AIG buy out because of those tow factors. Unfortunately, the only people looking out for the people are the politicians who get angry calls from citizens but sit in meetings with bank lobbyists.
They always will win out and no doubt will happen here again. So many Congressmen will just repeat Lobbyist thoughts as their own and the tax payer will get screwed.
I would like to see all Americans credit card debt get wiped out. How much would that cost?