I guess we are all about 7% poorer than we were this morning. That’s no big deal, right?
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BooMan
Martin Longman a contributing editor at the Washington Monthly. He is also the founder of Booman Tribune and Progress Pond. He has a degree in philosophy from Western Michigan University.
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More than that if you were invested in S&P 500 index funds or in Nasdaq. Closer to 10%.
But a lot of left-wing bloggers are happy for some reason. Amazing. I guess those rich people’s 10% loss was just too satisfying to pass up.
Well, I have money in a 401K and a lot of folks have similar plans where they work. We all lost a big part of our net worth today.
FYI, here’s a few NYSE rules that might come into play tomorrow: LINK
I celebrate your loss of net wealth, Steven. May you lose much more in the coming days.
BTW- Here are the Progressive Caucus corporatist pigs that voted for the bailout.
Isn’t that amazing how many liberals turned out to be in the tank for George W. Bush?
Today I lost 3x what my family’s liablity would have been under the bailout. Guess I’m a sucker.
According to this link Americans held an estimated 17.6 million in retirement plans, pensions or IRAs as of 2007. I would guess a big chunk of that is in the stock market through mutual funds or direct accounts with brokers.
Of course, the real risk is if the money market funds start to go under. Most plans don’t have an insured FDIC bank deposit option so if you want to hold some part of your retirement money in cash you have to do it with a money market fund. Indeed, they have replaced most traditional savings accounts, even at Banks. So even if you have gotten out of the market and have your savings in “cash or cash equivalents” they might not be safe.
trillion, not million.
Do you really believe that it’s the government’s job to try to prop up the stock market?
Look, people that predicted doom and gloom were right. Of course there will be some schaudenfraude. Especially from those of us that put our money where our mouth was and invested appropriately. But that doesn’t mean we were rooting for bad things. We recognized bad things were happening and tried to warn you. Now you are displacing your anger and blaming the very people who were correct.
And it goes both ways. You would have gladly mocked the doomsayers if you were right and the stock market stayed at irrational levels in perpetuity. You would have called them conspiracy theory crazies. Ron Paul loonies.
You’re just angry because the people on the left were right again (as well as some libertarians). You got suckered by Bush into thinking the economy was swell and now that he’s put a gun to your head you are willing to hand him the keys to the treasury to him so he can “fix” the economy and make the stock market go up again.
We will get what we deserve. Invest in safe havens. Expect the government to do the wrong thing. Expect Obama to fail. Expect “other wars”.
What the fuck are you talking about?
Booman–you’re using a Bush tactic. That Joe EveryMan has money in the markets and therefore what’s good for Wall Street is actually good for him.
That’s what your post is about. And you’re trying to make liberals feel guilty as well. As if they need to support Bush’s policies or else they’re just playing with fake populism and will make all these bad things happen to the average Joe because the stock market will go down.
Clear as day to me.
Except Joe EveryMan ain’t buying that we need to prop up the markets to prop him up.
How about you provide us with a concise statement on your understanding of the cause of the Depression. Not the plunge in stock prices in 1929, but the failure to recover and the causes for the deterioration throughout 1931-32.
Instead how about I tell you what I think you think the answer is? Let me quess? A lack of liquidity?
Let’s all prepare for another hot beef injection of liquidity. Love it baby!
Already got it. The Fed pumped another 600+ Billion into the global economy even before the vote. Isn’t that enough liquidity? At least the Fed just printed it. The Treasury would have had to borrow it.
No, it was because kangaroos leaped out of Herbert Hoover’s ass.
You really think the global economy and the geopolitical realities of 2008 are comparable to 1929? You think that any act of Congress is enough? You think the European Central Bank, the sovereign wealth funds, the Chinese etc. are somehow peripheral to the American economy and that an American solution to a 1929 crisis (theoretically) is the answer today?
Some things are comparable and other things are not.
Confident you know which is which? I’m not.
well, I’m sure that we don’t want to try to balance the budget right now. I’m sure that we can’t afford to let short-term credit lines dry up.
I’m pretty sure we CAN’T balance the budget right now or in the foreseeable future. I suspect we’re looking at trillion dollar deficits–at least until the world gets sick of lending us the money at real negative interest rates. What happens then I don’t even want to contemplate.
You, sir, are a buffoon. Your ignorance is topped only by your glib denial of reality.
Oh please. And you say that I employ obscure vocabulary. You, sir, are a pot. Meet kettle.
And how have I glibly denied reality? I’m the biggest realist around here.
You’re grasping at straws my man.
The glib denial of reality comes from all corners. Hell, I don’t even know where it’s hiding anymore. Is it reality that people are going to hurt? Of course–and they’re going to hurt whether this bailout had been passed or not. Is it reality that the entire fraking system is on life support? I think so. Is it reality that the average household income can’t support the purchase price of the average home? You betcha. Is it reality that no one knows how much debt is really out there? Yes, but that’s the fundamental reality about the global economy and nobody can find it or quantify it. That 700Billion was just a guess and a prayer.
BTW: Idiotic use of obscure vocabulary to score– what– self-satisfaction points?
Right now I am hoping very hard that everything I have been reading lately about LIBOR, TED spread, and credit freezes was completely alarmist. Because otherwise we are screwed.
I wonder if opposition to the bailout plan will still be so great as people learn about the stock market crash. It is really surreal to me to look at Daily Kos and see so many cheering and so many politicans running for office proudly saying they would have voted against it. They would be proud to have led to the stock market losing 770 points?
My return on my 401k this year? -22%!!!
My 401(k) would look even worse if not for the money I put into it from each paycheck… I am not thinking about that right now. Fortunately, I have 30 years to retirement so it is bound to get better by then, but older works are up shit creek without a paddle.
Exactly. My current job’s 401k plan remains flat – because for all that I lose, I’m putting more in each month. But that sucks too. On the other hand, I’m getting some bargain basement prices on my latest contributions. Or so I hope!
Nope, no big deal 7%. If Ford MoCo. hits 3.50 dollars a share I might go buy a few shares.
Is that snark? I can’t tell.
no, really this big drop will bring some people into the market. My Ford is just as good as any Toyota and at $3.50 a share, I will buy.
by the way, do you know where most of the money went today? Into no yield t-bonds. People are buying bonds with no yield rather than keeping their money in a bank or other securities. And we’re printing money. Isn’t that great!!
well because anything 100K is your loss. As i see it, I haven’t bought a damn thing on Credit Since oil was at 80.00 dollars a barrel or April 2007. Credit Cards screw you if your a .15 seconds late anyway.
I’ll buy a car when obama is president.
If they don’t trust the FDIC, why in the world would they trust Paulson? Paulson and Bernanke are not even promising that buying all the mortgage bonds would work. They don’t even know if the right number is $700 billion or $7 trillion?
What I do know is that no matter who owns those bonds, if the foreclosures don’t stop, house prices will continue to spiral downward. We need a temporary stay on foreclosures, like Roosevelt’s bank holiday. Foreclose only if the loan is totally non-performing. Let people know that if they are paying at least 28% of their income, they will not be foreclosed. Some speculators will default anyway, but people caught between two houses (I would apply the 28% to both mortgages) or stuck in an ARM would have an incentive to hang on until the real estate market recovers.
Maybe someone has a better idea, but it has to address the root problem which is a snowballing bear market in houses due to foreclosed houses being thrown on an already down market.
I’m all for taking steps, even radical steps, to slow foreclosures.
But I think it’s instructive that the people just took 1.2 trillion dollars out of the market and gave it to the government with no expectation that they’ll get any interest. That’s not a good deal when the government is simultaneously printing money that devalues the dollar.
The money didn’t go to the government. It just disappeared. In fact, it was never there. Prices are volatile. I “lost” $15,0000 yesterday. In reality, yesterday strangers were willing to give me $15,000 more than they will today for certain pieces of paper that I own. It has no effect on the papers ability to generate money.
Don’t sell into a panic. It may take years to come back, but if you sell now, it will never come back for you. The time to sell was last June, but we (I) can only see it in hindsight.
If Ford falls that low, I’m not sure how my parents (dad is a Ford retiree w/stocks) will continue to pay off their portion of his by-pass surgery.
well isn’t under-funded company pension plans the other 800 pound gorilla in the room waiting to fail??
http://www.financialweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080407/REG/818031279/1036
I ‘spect we’ll find out by the end of the week whether or not American politics and government has become too dysfunctional to continue. My bet is that they’ll put in a nip-and-a-tuck here and there so that at least twelve members can save face and pass some sort of plan. I am of the belief that it will be a short-term “fix” and a long-term disaster, but that’s just me.
I’m not happy.
I work IT for a regional bank…one whose stock got shithammered today.
But I am convinced that the bailout bill if passed would have all our stocks and 401k’s in a much, much worse situation in a few months.
.
WALL St’s record stock plunge saw approximately $US1.2 trillion one-day loss, according to the Dow Jones Wilshire 5000, the broadest measure of market activity.
The biggest-ever loss is almost double the size of the rescue package rejected by the US House of Representatives earlier Monday.
Markets around the world panicked after lawmakers voted down the $US700 billion bailout for the financial system, raising the prospect of deeper financial turmoil.
The Dow Jones Industrial Average sank 777.68 points (6.98 per cent) to close at 10,365.45, in its biggest single-day point decline ever.
The second largest point drop came on September 17, 2001, in the wake of the terrorist attacks on New York and Washington.
On “Black Monday” October 19, 1987 the Dow Jones index dropped by a 22.61 percentage loss.
"But I will not let myself be reduced to silence."Today’s seven percent, yesterdays two percent, the other days three percent, if this keeps up, pretty soon we are talking some serious coin.
Being an oldie, it does hurt to see your life saving dissolving in front of your eyes. My “stuff” is deemed a conservative portfolio by my planner. That means I’ve only lost fourteen percent so far this year. Of course a good chunk of that has been since 2:15 this afternoon.
To those who celebrate my generations demise, I can merely ask why?
Before this is over, I’m afraid they will be a whole lot of celebrating going on. Save your cardboard boxes.
High Ranking CIA Employee, accused of steering contracts to friends
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080929/ts_nm/us_cia_contracts
I’m just going to stop commenting over here for a while.
Things have been really ugly with our “liberal” folks lately (for the last several months.)
Even though we are like GUARANTEED to win the presidency AND a HUGE majority in the House AND a filibuster-proof majority in the senate, we are absolutely DETERMINED to fuck it up.
I guess that’s life. I guess it’s time to start searching for a new country to live in. Chalmers Johnson says I can move to Spain and still keep my two cats. Msybe that’s where I should be looking. Y’all are making me sick…
Interestingly enough, I received a dividend check today from Encana, a Canadian company.
Don’t know how you can say that. I’m poor, don’t have any stocks or investments, don’t have a 401K, don’t even have any savings. 7% of nothin’ is nothin.’ I don’t think I’m the only one. So whatcha talkin’ about “we,” Kemo Sabe.
Well, you are in the strange position of having little skin in the game. Today, that was a good thing. On most days, that’s not a good thing. It would be better for you if you had some savings and you had some investments. You will feel this in other ways, and in the longer-term. The job market will be tighter. If you own property, it will lose value. Your groceries will cost more. Credit will be harder to obtain.
No one is immune. Here’s a sense of the tragedy from the New York Times financial advice column:
“I guess we are all about 7% poorer than we were this morning.”
Sorry, but that statement is simply not accurate. There’s this idea that ALL of us made the mistake of investing in the markets, when in reality it was less than half of us. Those who want us to bail them out are trying to give the impression that we’re all hurting, but it’s not true at all. I’m very definitely not any poorer than I was this morning. Not one penny. But I certainly would have been if this bill had gone through. I’m sorry some people are losing money because of their bad planning, but it’s not my concern or affair. I’m just worried about people trying to use my money to bail out others. They didn’t share the profits and they shouldn’t expect us to share the losses. Maybe now they’ll learn not to trust the corporates and to invest their money more intelligently, as many of us have already done.
I’m an artist. The arts aren’t hurting. On the contrary, they’re increasing in value as people look for things of lasting value in which to stash their money. I invested in myself rather than in buildings and companies, and I’m doing great. Others should live and learn.