After a few conversations with my conservative friends and relatives, I realize we have a long way to go before anyone starts making nice, or listening to us when we say Obama isn’t a terrorist loving socialist out to destroy small businesses and hand out barrels of tax dollars solely for the benefit of black people. And Global warming is still a hoax.
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I tried having a conversation with an R at my office, after he started carrying on about socialism, and marriage being destroyed, I gave up, and said finally.
Yes, your right I can’t wait for my marriage to be de-sanctified, as well as seeing piles of dead babies out front of Dr’s offices around the country.
Basically I totally lost my shit with this idiot. There is just no pleasing some people, and I have given up trying.
I told my Mother-in-law just today that I really hoped the first thing that an Obama admin would do, was to remove the tax exempt status for the Catholic Corporation (I mean church), as she is a catholic.
I have no patience for people that refuse to inform themselves, and just listen to Rush, or Hannity.
Had my first post-election conversation today with the most right-wing person I know. Turns out he didn’t vote at all. He kinda likes Obama, but he hates Biden. He hates McCain almost as much as he hates Biden, but he loves Palin. He said he’d have voted for Obama/Palin but couldn’t, so he didn’t vote at all.
No, he’s never made sense to me.
WTF? Hopefully he never votes.
He always votes. Except this time.
Yep, it will definitely take time. I don’t discuss politics where I work because it’s just not productive. I had to nearly bite my tongue in two when some Conservative women were bemoaning the “terrible” treatment Sarah Palin got, and how they hoped she was going to become Senator and run for President in 2012. “She was going to give those clothes back! She is gutsy and she loves her family!” It was maddening to listen to that crap.
Blech. I desperately wanted to point out all the myriad gaffes that Sarah the Lamebrain showed, but I just sighed and walked away.
I won’t let the pissing and moaning of the Republicans spoil my joy, however. They brought this misery on themselves. Let them deal with it.
At my work it is very difficult to find anyone who supported McCain, and dissing Palin has been a favourite group activity.
In fact, at our annual Halloween breakfast and costume contest the theme appeared to be McCain/Palin RIP. One of the partners was the MC dressed as Joe the Plumber, his secretary was Sarah Palin, there was a lifesize cardboard cutout of McCain, and all around were gravestones with RIP on them. And there were plenty of Joe the Plumber and Sarah Palin jokes.
I don’t even want to imagine what it would have been like in a different environment.
I’ve heard this from liberal, democratic women as well. I think it’s mostly based on thinking of Palin not so much a politician, but rather as an ordinary “Mom”.
Of course, she was a politician. And out of her depth. She should never have been put in that position (who did that?), and most of the “terrible treatment” now is really is coming from her erstwhile GOP allies.
Sympathy only goes so far…
“She should never have been put in that position…“
Who forced her to say yes? According to some journalists in Alaska she has been saying for years that she is headed for the White House. Apparently the idea that she is in no way prepared to – you know – actually do the job has not occurred to her. Textbook narcissistic grandiosity.
McCain got what he asked for, when it was apparent McCain wasn’t going to win, those from the Romney camp sabotaged Palin. The best phrase I heard was “even Taco Bell interviews you twice before they give you a job.”
No one sabotaged Palin. No one had to sabotage her. She was a disastrous choice, and she did not have the political savvy, let alone the humility, to realize that she was guaranteed to crash and burn simply because she did not have what it takes to pull it off.
oh I agree. But secrets of a campaign are usually not told to reporters unless to serve your own purpose.
True. Although the series of Newsweek articles that began last week were not based on leaks. The reporters were embedded with the campaigns for one year on the condition that they would not reveal anything until after the election.
Gingrich’s GOPAC recruited her a few years ago, and the RNC basically forced her on McCain.
I sent the latest Get Your War On to an exec at my company who kept sending goofy Hannity-inspired emails to everyone. He also sent a confederate flag on a white background the morning after the election. Wow.
Anyway, perhaps some loony coworkers would enjoy this:
::
Heh – duly forwarded.
You need to quit and get a job where Hurria works. Or at least figure out how to sue him. Or at least complain to Personnel.
Yes, it is difficult to reason with people of the republican persuasion. You have to realize that their condition is pathological, their vision clouded and their powers of ratiocination just about non existent. They seem to feel their way to conclusions; that’s why Hannity, Savage, Limbaugh, O’Reilly et al emphasize the fear motive, the racism motive, the hatred motive so frequently. It’s not thought that counts but emotion. With maturity many people learn to balance both of these qualities but republicans are still, for the most part, in a state of arrested development.
There was a science paper out within the last month that theorized that there was an egalitarian revolution in human behavior during the Pleistocene, when hominids frontal lobes began growing. I’ll briefly explain it, with some additions of my own.
If you go back to when we were in common with great apes, our apelike societies were hierarchical. There was the alpha male and the rest of the relationships in a group were based on the big guy.
But if you look at pre-civilized hunter-gatherer groups people are quite egalitarian. In fact, leaders in such groups are mostly only nominally leaders. Groups make consensus decisions. (Compare this to the “Tarzan super male” fantasies of primitive societies.)
The theory says that as the human brain evolved it allowed hominids to develop empathy towards others, and to create alliances within the group. This quickly negated the power of the alpha male. Even the biggest alpha male is no match for two or three others. And, of course, female hominids were even more inclined to egalitarian behavior.
It was only when more complicated societies began developing that there was a swing towards the hierarchical again, buttressed with religio-civil impositions on the individual. And so people had to obey their leaders because they were gods, or they were serving as God’s representative on Earth, or God was on their side, or whatever. As the heavens controlled the fertility of the soil, so the state began to control the fertility of its people, with the bonus that sexual repression made the populace additionally angry, fearful, etc., and that unspent energy could be directed by the state.
So today’s humans walk around with both the reptilian and more intelligent brain.
This is way too broad a generality but Republicans, like most hierarchical animals, rule by fear, anger and a demand for order. They tend to use sexual repression as a means to accrue power and to hold sway over individuals.
Democrats at their best tend to rule by offering solutions to problems and recognizing benefits for society generally. Dems are also more likely to avoid the us versus them divisions and look for consensus.
That’s why Republicans tend to fall for fear tactics. They are stuck back in their amygdalas. They can be trained to use their frontal lobes, but it’s not easy.
Nice application of triune brain theory to modern day politics. Good job, Bob. Plus, I like the concept of Sarah Palin as number one alpha female. Unfortunately for her, whether its a beauty contest or one for the vice-presidency, she doesn’t quite measure up. Maybe, she has to work harder on her frontal lobes.
It’s not surprising that most killers on death row who’ve been examined have frontal lobe damage, either through actual physical abuse, by accident, by birth defects or a combination. They tend to react without control of their anger or fear, without empathy and without a sense of consequence.
It’s also interesting that the development of the frontal lobes is the last thing completed in human body, and that this growth continues into the early twenties. There is speculation that the reason why young men make the best soldiers and pilots is because of this. Also, this would explain why young soldiers are more likely to suffer PTSD. They suffer trauma while their glia are still forming.
In short, Republicans and other reactionary political thought is much like child abuse.
As long as talk radio and Faux news is out there, they will never let go of this crap.
At least as long as it brings in revenue.
Well, that’s true.
The moderate Republicans have had their fill of this nonsense however. My guess is that there will be a fight of some sort for the Republican label. We may even have a split.
Read the article on Levittown in today’s NYT and take heart
NYT
i think as long as their beliefs about what an obama administration represents remains purely an abstraction, they will hang tightly onto them until they’re ready to let them go, if ever. i’ve made a habit of reading sites like free republic, mainly for the entertainment value, and many people there sincerely believe that jack-booted liberals are today hopping into black vans, on their way to confiscate their homes, guns, bibles and daughters. they won’t stop believing this simply because no jackboots actually show up on their doorstep. these liberal nightmares complete some vital part of the picture of the strange universe they’ve bought into, and they wouldn’t have voted against obama if they didn’t firmly believe them.
the looniness is not confined to the right. i’ve spend the last few years trying to bat down the worst excesses of left-wing nightmare fantasies about the bush administration, like “false-flag” attacks, cancelled elections and the impending round-up of “subversives” into fema camps. i must admit, the current administration’s undeniably clear fascistic overtures made it difficult to be heard amidst the fear-mongering. but for 99% of america, arguments about civil rights, economics and ideology are carried only on an abstract level, and only until the day homes are lost and 401ks plummet in value do these issues become concrete enough to change anyone’s minds. and that’s why voters fled the republican party last week.
maybe after eight years of an obama administration, some will realize that they still have their homes, guns, bibles and daughters and realize it wasn’t so bad after all.
It would be worth recording all your friends, colleagues and relatives comments about Obama in a diary now – under code names for anonymity, and then present them with their own views in 3 years time, because many who complain now will soon be claiming they supported Obama all along.
We are in an era were the frames of reality are shifting, where paradigms shift, and old narratives simply won’t work any more. Many of your friends will be embarrassed in 3 years rime if you present them of your record of what they said now.
You will be able to present facts like that under Obama:
Teh Stupid yet lives:
If I didn’t live near a university where at least half the people in the community aren’t absolutely bat shit, tin-foil hat lunatics like these, I’d be seriously considering relocation.
Have you ever tried to strike up a conversation with a mosquito? It would be about as effective as the conversations that you are attempting. You don’t converse with these people, you defeat them. Let them spout off, look them in the eye, and tell them that they are stupid. When they object and/or get offended then explain the nature of their stupidity – in pointed detail – but never, ever try to achieve mutual understanding – it can not and will not happen. All that you can do is demonstrate their stupidity to them and crush their self-confidence, but you’ll never, ever get them to agree with you.
It’s your time to waste conversing with those folks, but my advice is to ignore them or destroy them – you’ll never assimilate them.
“…ignore them or destroy them”
Good advice, Oscar. They might as well be evil aliens from some alternate universe.
Well, in a sense, they are indeed aliens from an alternate universe. People with different base epistemologies can not have substantive discussions about issues – the conversation will always devolve into an argument over the nature of truth – and people do not change their base epistemology, since that would require a complete examination of everything that they know to be true. It’s easier to drop an f-bomb and raise the deuces than to reexamine everything that you have previously understood to be true, so it is rare that a liberal becomes a conservative or a conservative becomes a liberal in their thinking. It does happen, I’m sure, but rarely.
They are trapped in their amygdalas. See my post above.
I’m predicting that there is going to be a lot of positive energy and momentum generated by Obama. The majority of the country is going to get behind his movement, leaving the dead-enders with a choice to either get with the program or resign themselves to being a pissy, whining minority that isn’t having any fun.
those people need to take anti-psychotics before they can discuss politics rationally.
I had a conversation with my daughters new boyfriend, 28, whom I love very much except for his political views..he really does believe that Obama will take away guns, I said maybe it will be right to own assult weapons and he replied, well why should they be taken away, we will need them to defend ourselves against the army when they take over.
He was mostly for Ron Paul, is very educated, frequently checks out DK, but still believes a lot of the crap that has been thrown in addition he thinks Reps and Dems are pretty much the same.
I am beginning to think that for people like me and a lot of folks here have watched a lot of history pass by and pretty much have seen it about as bad as it can get without collapsing, i.e. the past 8 years to name but one thing. Anyway I think we have a better perspective having lived long.
Also reading comments on NYT and WP show me that a lot of people were influenced by the negative campaigning. That worries me more than anything. I hope that those folks can be brought around.
Got off the phone with my 83 year-old mother, Republican, and she was moaning to me that “they’re” gonna take all her money.
I said who.
“Obama,” and then she clarified that it was the economy.
I said that it’s George Bush’s economy.
Then she said people are always blaming everything on the President.
from blue to red… this is worth sharing!
Like really, really awesome. Nothing like being a hundred percent-er — for each other and for America.