Deep Thought (Single Payer ed.)

The “Greatest Canadian” in history, according to a recent Canadian Broadcasting Company viewer vote, was not Wayne Gretsky or Alexander Graham Bell. It was Tommy Douglas, the politician who most responsible for Canada’s current system of universal, single payer health care.

You know, the single payer, government operated health care program that Canadians supposedly hate so much because it’s so awful? Yeah, that health care system. Just one of those tidbits of information that should make you go “Hmmmm . . . ” next time you hear the current propaganda from the right about much Canadians hate their government run health care system, and how horrible it would be if the United States opted for a similar system. By the way, did you know the following facts?

(cont.)

First, let’s look at per capita health care spending in [Canada, the UK and New Zealand], and in the United States:

United States: $5,274
Canada: $2,931
United Kingdom: $2,160
New Zealand: $1,857

Let’s look at the figures from a slightly different standpoint, total health care spending as a percent of GDP:

United States: 15.4%
Canada: 9.8%
New Zealand: 8.4%
United Kingdom: 8.1%

The United States also has a higher infant mortality rate than each of those three countries which have government run single payer health care systems, and total life expectancy is greater in each of those three countries when compared to the United States.

The results speak for themselves. We pay significantly more in the US of A for worse health care services than do other developed English speaking countries with government operated health care systems. If you included France or Sweden (two other socialized medicine countries) in these statistics the results would look even worse.

So, tell me again? What’s so horrible about “socialized medicine?” Why should we pay so much more for a system that benefits millions fewer people, and bankrupts millions of others even if they have health insurance, than a single payer, government operated, universal coverage for every American citizen system would?

I mean other than the fact that insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies and their lobbyists pay big bucks for the votes of our elected officials to keep things the way they are?

16 Comments

ask on June 17, 2009 at 8:48 am

You leave no room for discussion, Steven…

I mean other than the fact that insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies and their lobbyists pay big bucks for the votes of our elected officials to keep things the way they are?

Remove the profit motivation on the insurance end of the health system and we’d have a great solution. One that the insurance companies and their lackeys in congress will fight tooth and nail to avoid.

billjpa on June 17, 2009 at 8:54 am

OK- I totally support the single-payer concept.
I know that the ads are lies and distortions being presented by the industries and opponents.
BUT- besides the purported costs, is there any compilation of the “delays of services”, “lack of quality”, and the rest of the “negatives” that are flooding the media?
And, where the hell are the supporters counter ads?

Teacher Toni on June 17, 2009 at 9:35 am

Excellent point about counter ads. I am an American living in Canada and I really appreciate the health care system.
DaveW on June 17, 2009 at 10:45 am

Any non-Senator non-CEO who’s dealt with the so-called health care system knows first hand about the delays, waste, defensive medicine, and fraud that define the US “magic of the market” regime. But denial is a powerful thing. It’s impossible that mere foreigners could do anything better than the US, so it’s not so hard for advertising and other propaganda to trump even personal experience. And of course there’s always the dread scenario of dark and alien beings getting the same kind of treatment as MeMeMeMe. In short, any compilations of such things would be total bullshit, depending on whose master they serve.

As to advertising, there are a few outfits like MoveOn and some unions trying to counter the propaganda assault, but when one side just charges its customers for the cost of ads that are a cost of doing business, and the other side has to ask for personal cash from supporters, it’s like me playing no-limits poker with Warren Buffet. Even if I were better I’d lose. Given the state of American democracy it’s kind of a wonder that there are other voices ever heard at all.

Errol on June 17, 2009 at 9:44 am

would like to delete 2 comments from yesterday where I stupidly linked to Iranian twitter. can’t email booman from here (contact goes to outlook express which I can’t set up on this computer). I’d appreciate suggestions or email address!
thanks

DaveW on June 17, 2009 at 10:50 am

The Contact link is a mailto: link, which can be used with any email program or online email site. Just paste it in if clicking it doesn’t automatically open a program.
- Errol on June 17, 2009 at 11:08 am
  
  sorry, don’t understand. when I click on “email booman” i get a wizard for setting up outlook express. can’t get an address out of it (if i set up outlook express here it messes up my system)
  - CabinGirl on June 17, 2009 at 11:23 am
    
    try: admin@boomantribune.com
    - Errol on June 17, 2009 at 11:34 am
      
      trying it, thanks much!
  - DaveW on June 17, 2009 at 11:48 am
    
    Friends don’t let friends use Windows.
- Errol on June 17, 2009 at 11:17 am
  
  think I’m pasting in the wrong thing – using a groupwise system (sucks, I know, not my choice) and it just said it couldn’t send and deleted text from my message.

DaveW on June 17, 2009 at 10:55 am

Well put, Steven. Too bad Congress, Obama, the “news” media, and the rest of the power elite think the health of Blue Cross, Humana, etc, is more important than ours.

I suppose senators keep their insurance for life, don’t they? Makes my revenge fantasies harder to construct.

dada on June 17, 2009 at 11:56 am

there was an good oped in the sunday denver post by an expat canadian that brings up a number of additional points, Debunking Canadian health care myths:

Myth: Taxes in Canada are extremely high, mostly because of national health care.

In actuality, taxes are nearly equal on both sides of the border. Overall, Canada’s taxes are slightly higher than those in the U.S. However, Canadians are afforded many benefits for their tax dollars, even beyond health care (e.g., tax credits, family allowance, cheaper higher education), so the end result is a wash. At the end of the day, the average after-tax income of Canadian workers is equal to about 82 percent of their gross pay. In the U.S., that average is 81.9 percent.

Myth: Canada’s health care system is a cumbersome bureaucracy.

The U.S. has the most bureaucratic health care system in the world. More than 31 percent of every dollar spent on health care in the U.S. goes to paperwork, overhead, CEO salaries, profits, etc. The provincial single-payer system in Canada operates with just a 1 percent overhead. Think about it. It is not necessary to spend a huge amount of money to decide who gets care and who doesn’t when everybody is covered.

…

Myth: Canada’s government decides who gets health care and when they get it.

While HMOs and other private medical insurers in the U.S. do indeed make such decisions, the only people in Canada to do so are physicians. In Canada, the government has absolutely no say in who gets care or how they get it. Medical decisions are left entirely up to doctors, as they should be.

There are no requirements for pre-authorization whatsoever. If your family doctor says you need an MRI, you get one. In the U.S., if an insurance administrator says you are not getting an MRI, you don’t get one no matter what your doctor thinks — unless, of course, you have the money to cover the cost…

there’s more

sounds good to me.

olivia on June 17, 2009 at 1:57 pm

Steven, it’s interesting that you mention Tommy Douglas. Last w/e I was visiting his burial site at the cemetery. The epitaph is inspiring, and reads:

Courage my friends, ’tis not too late to make a better world.

billjpa on June 17, 2009 at 2:41 pm

Is it time for the people to march? Is it time for the people let the congress and the “media” see just what the “people” can do? Is it time to show the powers that regardless of what they claim to believe, they are petrified of the true potential power inherent in us?
I think so. Who else thinks so?

AliceDem on June 17, 2009 at 3:06 pm

There will be a major demonstration in Wash DC next week sponsored by HCAN. If you can’t make it, you might visit the district office of your Sen or Rep. on June 25 and tell them you want single payer. If enough people do this it will make a difference.

ask on June 17, 2009 at 8:48 am

You leave no room for discussion, Steven…

I mean other than the fact that insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies and their lobbyists pay big bucks for the votes of our elected officials to keep things the way they are?

Remove the profit motivation on the insurance end of the health system and we’d have a great solution. One that the insurance companies and their lackeys in congress will fight tooth and nail to avoid.
billjpa on June 17, 2009 at 8:54 am

OK- I totally support the single-payer concept.
I know that the ads are lies and distortions being presented by the industries and opponents.
BUT- besides the purported costs, is there any compilation of the “delays of services”, “lack of quality”, and the rest of the “negatives” that are flooding the media?
And, where the hell are the supporters counter ads?
- Teacher Toni on June 17, 2009 at 9:35 am
  
  Excellent point about counter ads. I am an American living in Canada and I really appreciate the health care system.
- DaveW on June 17, 2009 at 10:45 am
  
  Any non-Senator non-CEO who’s dealt with the so-called health care system knows first hand about the delays, waste, defensive medicine, and fraud that define the US “magic of the market” regime. But denial is a powerful thing. It’s impossible that mere foreigners could do anything better than the US, so it’s not so hard for advertising and other propaganda to trump even personal experience. And of course there’s always the dread scenario of dark and alien beings getting the same kind of treatment as MeMeMeMe. In short, any compilations of such things would be total bullshit, depending on whose master they serve.
  
  As to advertising, there are a few outfits like MoveOn and some unions trying to counter the propaganda assault, but when one side just charges its customers for the cost of ads that are a cost of doing business, and the other side has to ask for personal cash from supporters, it’s like me playing no-limits poker with Warren Buffet. Even if I were better I’d lose. Given the state of American democracy it’s kind of a wonder that there are other voices ever heard at all.
Errol on June 17, 2009 at 9:44 am

would like to delete 2 comments from yesterday where I stupidly linked to Iranian twitter. can’t email booman from here (contact goes to outlook express which I can’t set up on this computer). I’d appreciate suggestions or email address!
thanks
- DaveW on June 17, 2009 at 10:50 am
  
  The Contact link is a mailto: link, which can be used with any email program or online email site. Just paste it in if clicking it doesn’t automatically open a program.
  - Errol on June 17, 2009 at 11:08 am
    
    sorry, don’t understand. when I click on “email booman” i get a wizard for setting up outlook express. can’t get an address out of it (if i set up outlook express here it messes up my system)
    - CabinGirl on June 17, 2009 at 11:23 am
      
      try: admin@boomantribune.com
      - Errol on June 17, 2009 at 11:34 am
        
        trying it, thanks much!
    - DaveW on June 17, 2009 at 11:48 am
      
      Friends don’t let friends use Windows.
  - Errol on June 17, 2009 at 11:17 am
    
    think I’m pasting in the wrong thing – using a groupwise system (sucks, I know, not my choice) and it just said it couldn’t send and deleted text from my message.
DaveW on June 17, 2009 at 10:55 am

Well put, Steven. Too bad Congress, Obama, the “news” media, and the rest of the power elite think the health of Blue Cross, Humana, etc, is more important than ours.

I suppose senators keep their insurance for life, don’t they? Makes my revenge fantasies harder to construct.
dada on June 17, 2009 at 11:56 am

there was an good oped in the sunday denver post by an expat canadian that brings up a number of additional points, Debunking Canadian health care myths:

Myth: Taxes in Canada are extremely high, mostly because of national health care.

In actuality, taxes are nearly equal on both sides of the border. Overall, Canada’s taxes are slightly higher than those in the U.S. However, Canadians are afforded many benefits for their tax dollars, even beyond health care (e.g., tax credits, family allowance, cheaper higher education), so the end result is a wash. At the end of the day, the average after-tax income of Canadian workers is equal to about 82 percent of their gross pay. In the U.S., that average is 81.9 percent.

Myth: Canada’s health care system is a cumbersome bureaucracy.

The U.S. has the most bureaucratic health care system in the world. More than 31 percent of every dollar spent on health care in the U.S. goes to paperwork, overhead, CEO salaries, profits, etc. The provincial single-payer system in Canada operates with just a 1 percent overhead. Think about it. It is not necessary to spend a huge amount of money to decide who gets care and who doesn’t when everybody is covered.

…

Myth: Canada’s government decides who gets health care and when they get it.

While HMOs and other private medical insurers in the U.S. do indeed make such decisions, the only people in Canada to do so are physicians. In Canada, the government has absolutely no say in who gets care or how they get it. Medical decisions are left entirely up to doctors, as they should be.

There are no requirements for pre-authorization whatsoever. If your family doctor says you need an MRI, you get one. In the U.S., if an insurance administrator says you are not getting an MRI, you don’t get one no matter what your doctor thinks — unless, of course, you have the money to cover the cost…

there’s more

sounds good to me.
olivia on June 17, 2009 at 1:57 pm

Steven, it’s interesting that you mention Tommy Douglas. Last w/e I was visiting his burial site at the cemetery. The epitaph is inspiring, and reads:

Courage my friends, ’tis not too late to make a better world.
billjpa on June 17, 2009 at 2:41 pm

Is it time for the people to march? Is it time for the people let the congress and the “media” see just what the “people” can do? Is it time to show the powers that regardless of what they claim to believe, they are petrified of the true potential power inherent in us?
I think so. Who else thinks so?
- AliceDem on June 17, 2009 at 3:06 pm
  
  There will be a major demonstration in Wash DC next week sponsored by HCAN. If you can’t make it, you might visit the district office of your Sen or Rep. on June 25 and tell them you want single payer. If enough people do this it will make a difference.

Deep Thought (Single Payer ed.)

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