A pie fight between Gleen Greenwald and Joe Klein? That’s probably not a good idea on Klein’s part.
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BooMan
Martin Longman a contributing editor at the Washington Monthly. He is also the founder of Booman Tribune and Progress Pond. He has a degree in philosophy from Western Michigan University.
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wonderful understatement!
love it.
greenwald 1.
even his loyal commenters took him apart. what an ass.
What’s with Klein? It’s starting to seem like he’s going genuinely over the edge.
Am I the only one who is not a big fan of Greenwald?
I don’t particularly like Joe Klein, and am not interested enough in their intramural squabble to read on (though I assume that Klen is acting immature).
But I do think that Greenwald has a tendency to be overly self-righteous and be far to quick to dismiss opposing points of view.
No I agree. I assume his posts are cathartic because to feel like that every moment of the day for the past 6 years has got to be insane.
Gideon,
My take on Greenwald is different. If he comes across as arrogant and not sufficiently respectful of the opinions of others, it’s because he has the facts in hand and is right on the money. He doesn’t blow smoke– he documents and verifies everything he says. I have yet to see him caught off-base on an issue, and I’m still waiting for someone to offer a strong rebuttal of Glenn’s work. IMHO, the guy is just what we need in these time of amorality.
Fair enough.
I can’t even say that I recall disagreeing with Greenwald on anything in particular. It’s just that I have a visceral reaction against people who tend to speak in absolutist terms, as I think he does.
Or to put it differently, I’d prefer that he acknowledge the possibility that reasonable people can differ with him sometimes, without necessarily being corrupt or stupid.
Klein will lose for sure. He’s a celebrity and gets offended very easily. He made a mistake in going up against Glen.
Glen is smart and he knows how to reason. He’s confident and not arrogant. He just comes out and says what he thinks.
When I first got online, I emailed Glen a couple of times. He answered within a day and his responses weren’t dismissive.
Not that it means anything, but Glen stuck his neck out with what he wrote when Bush was pres. Klein has always taken a safer path and is probably jealous if Glen.
See, I find that interesting. As I just wrote above, I think that Greenwald often comes across as arrogant and dismissive of others. If he was more courteous to you in a personal exchange, that suggests to me that he may be adopting a more confrontational tone on his blog for the purpose of advocacy (though I personally do not believe that is an effective tactic).
I’m sure you’re right that Klein will end up looking foolish against Greenwald. Klein is out-classed here.
I do think that Glen does the confrontational bit for a living. It has to get hits or he’s out of a job.
He is long winded, but I give him credit for not backing down.
He is also well versed on the US Constitution.
A debate between Greenwald and Klein is a bad idea, a complete losing proposition from Klein’s point of view.
But a pie fight? That’s much, much better for Klein. Changing the focus from facts to “Yo’ Mama!” levels the playing field, and gives Klein a chance. Klein gets published by Time magazine, which is like having a hundred-foot tall trebuchet to throw your pies with. And that’s precisely why Klein has responded to Greenwald’s attempts to lure him into a debate ambush with his idiotic barrage of pies.
“…Greenwald’s attempts to lure him into a debate ambush…”
Do you really think that’s what Greenwald was doing when he reported on Klein’s inconsistencies over the years? Does pointing at the hypocrisy of the pundit class mean that you want to debate them? No, I think it means you want to expose them and perform a public service in doing so.
Now, fortunately for Klein, his hissy fits weren’t published in Time magazine. Swampland is hardly a hundred-foot tall advantage. It probably got more hits today than it usually gathers in a week.
The whole sequence of events has been an all-round win-win-win for Greenwald. He pointed out Klein’s little weenie. Klein responded by whipping it out and waving it around. And we all get to point and laugh at him along with Greenwald.
I turned my back on Joe Klein a long time ago.
Funny, I respect him more now. He has improved so much since he started blogging. He’s not perfect or anything but he is usually worth reading.
Tom Ridge is on Rachel’s show backpedalling so hard he’s about to give himself whiplash. Rachel is reading direct quotes from his book and he’s tying himself in knots trying to explain why they don’t mean what she thinks it means. Who knew plain language could be so misleading.
And Rachel is showing where she really excels: calmly, politely and persistently asking the challenging questions.