Not that it is ever good to lose a vote for the Speaker of the House, but that was lost already when Parker Griffith announced this summer that he would not be supporting Pelosi in the next Congress. So, Griffith’s party switch really means very little in terms of the relative power ratio in Congress. However, it’s not good to see how toxic the Democrats have become in Alabama. We’ve also seen a couple of retirements in Tennessee recently. On the one hand, we don’t have to spend a bunch of money defending these seats. On the other hand, these seats are probably lost for the foreseeable future. I’m a little bit surprised and disappointed by this development. I knew that Obama had done particularly poorly in Appalachia, but I hoped that the people there would see that all the Palinite’s crazy talk about the Kenyan socialist looking out only for black folks would lose its saliency once Obama got into office and did a credible job. It appears that the crazy just keeps building, and now it is eroding the Dem majority. I don’t cry for lost Blue Dogs, but I am concerned about what this tells us about the modern South, especially in the interior of the country.
About The Author
BooMan
Martin Longman a contributing editor at the Washington Monthly. He is also the founder of Booman Tribune and Progress Pond. He has a degree in philosophy from Western Michigan University.
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The Democrats are as toxic in most parts of the south as the Republicans are in the northeast. These are two distinct, even hostile, cultures we’re dealing with, and maybe it’s not realistic to hope they can be unified under the banner of any particular party. You can only make a tent so big before it collapses on itself.
FDR seemed to be able to unify the “two cultures”.
Well, that’s going back some.
The past is another country. They do things different there.
Only by sweeping issues with minorities under the rug about 20x more often than could be done today. Also the country was in an even worse crisis.
It’s not terribly shocking to me, honestly. Having spent a lot of time in that interior area, it was readily apparent to me that isolation and the lack of serious choice in news sources makes it nearly impossible to get through to them. There’s also an incredible amount of pressure put upon them to fit with the right wing.
It’s one of the reasons I’m not a fan of the Jim Webb-Appalachia strategy. These people don’t really agree with us on anything. We’re not going to convince them, because we’re playing defense the whole time. You can’t convince them that we don’t want to take their guns or that the FEMA concentration camps don’t exist or that Obama isn’t a Muslim.
And we have enough votes in the sane parts of the country to get the job done. Seriously, we ought to just let it go.
As for Alabama, let me just say that I recently attended a wedding. The groom’s family and friends were all from Alabama. When they found out where I worked, their first question was, “Do you work for ACORN?” And they were dead-serious, completely certain that I had to be an Obama Agent of some kind.
Keep in mind, these were all people with bachelors or masters degrees from either UA-Tuscaloosa or Auburn. This was the educated middle class of Alabama. Universally white collar. Completely insane.
There’s nothing to really do but govern and campaign, try to make life better for them in the process, and hope it gets through eventually, in my opinion.
That’s so depressing.
It got to be a little frightening, truth be told. I sort of spent half the weekend wondering when one of them was going to pull a shotgun on me and demand I renounce my imaginary communist ties or something.
Fortunately, the groom, while very conservative, isn’t a total nutter and is actually a really nice guy. But, still, a bit of an eye-opener.
How many were originally from outside Alabama (say, Ohio) and have gone “native”?
None. All born and raised in Alabama, mostly from Birmingham.
Ohio has some wingnutty places, but Ohio’s not Alabama.
Oh, Birmingham. Those folks have a 40-year-old chip on their shoulder for being one of the two major battlegrounds of the Civil Rights movement. Northern Alabama is the wingnuttier part of Alabama.
The reason I asked is that I have seen folks move from nominally liberal areas outside the South, and after about three years their attitudes almost mirror their Southern neighbors. Most of these tend to be country club Republican types.
One of the really strange phenomena about the cultural situation. Those areas that are the wingnutty areas today never were plantation areas, were hotbeds of sundown towns during the 1920s, and some were Republican Unionist communities (mostly northeastern Tennessee through West Virginia) at the time of the Civil War. And those south of there tended toward some degree of Democratic Unionism (think Andrew Johnson).
And until the revivals of the 1910s-1940s, these areas weren’t terribly religious. (The other side of the culture is honky tonk music). A lot of fundamentalist evangelists put a lot of effort into this area. And Ralph Reed leveraged that effort for the Republican Party.
It is not a culture that can never change. They just tell themselves the story that they are.
Uh…. Alabama? This is just the republican party becoming completely nothing more than a regional party.
Yah…. Don’t care.
I worry about their breeding actually. Yes the south is one region, but it is really populous.
I think a huge part of the teabagger movment has been the obvious backlash at having a black president. This will become clear in the 2010 election IMO when in the south and Appalachia democrats will have a tough road to hoe.
It makes exciting the AA, Latino, and youth base very important. It’d be nice if folks would think on how to create turnout among these voters.
As in crops.
Hint: Republicans control those areas in which you think Democrats have a tough row to hoe.
Incumbent Republicans are subject to challenges from teabaggers. Wonder if there are some hard feelings that might permit a Democrat to win? Could be interesting to watch.
This is not a big surprise. One wonders why he remained a Blue Dog so long. I guess that the Republican Party wasn’t interested in him as long as some long time Republicans were available to run. But being the incumbent has its advantages.
And the Republicans gain a Board-certified oncologist, adding another doctor to their bizarre menagerie that includes Coburn, Broun, Barasso and others.
And the Republicans gain a Board-certified oncologist
Not for very long. The Republicans in the district will primary him. To them he’s a traitor and we know they won’t stand for that.
Man, I think you need to bone up a little on just how things are and have been for a very, very long time in Appalachia. Why in the world would you think this? I have spent a lifetime surrounded by much of that swill. You need to get out of Philly a little more to truly appreciate what we are facing in the interior South and much of the upper midwest. What possible things, from an Appalachian perspective, has Obama done that would make anyone down South suddenly think he has done a “credible job” for them? They have still not gotten past the fact that there is a black guy at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue who, according to all their accessible and reputable news sources, is likely not even a U.S. citizen.
Jesus Christ, BooMan! Do you think that Appalachia views Palin as an aberration? Hell No! She is one of the Real Americans who is standing up to the true aberration in their world, Barack Obama-the illegitimate ACORN President who is coming to take their guns and lead a black revolution against white people.
You’re damn right that the crazy keeps building. Spend a little time in the rural parts of the south and upper midwest. You’re a regular looking white guy. They’d take you right in, assuming you to be a brother-of-like-mind and tell you exactly how they feel. I guarantee it would scare the living shit out of you. Hell, all I’ve got to do is pick up the phone and call any number of my relatives and they would spew their shit about Obama without even a suggestion from me.
“Concerned about what this us about the modern South” ? I can tell you this. Much of the modern South ain’t much different than my Great Grandpa’s South; at least when it comes to the views that are held by a large segment of the population. That’s just a fact. It runs long and deep. Very, very deep.
I went to college in Kalamazoo. I know a bit about racial and religious bigotry in the Upper Midwest. But I hoped the conspiracy theories would subside a bit once people had an opportunity to match them against real events.
Real events?
Have you seen the latest PPP numbers on the KY Senate race here, where Rand Paul is about to run away with the GOP primary there for Jim Bunning’s seat?
You don’t get it, man. Barack Obama’s a black man in the White House. There are legions of people here who will never forgive the Democrats for this. Never. They not only blame the Democrats, but they blame the Republicans for not being Wingnut enough to go full birther on the guy.
31% of Republican voters in Kentucky think the GOP is too liberal. Let that sink in for a moment.
America has terribly underestimated the backlash against Obama from the South. It’s going to be a bloodbath out here at the polls. The Teabaggers want anybody who’s not as crazy as they are out, Dems or Republicans.
I’m curious…how long did you think it would take?
Pres. Obama has really only been in office for 11 months at this point. Most of his legacy is far from written, and right now economic times (particularly in southern rural areas) are still pretty darn hard. I’m not excusing the irrational hatred some of the south has towards the President, but I would never have guessed that the realization to them that it is unfounded would take longer than 11 months. I don’t know if they will realize it until he’s out of office, actually.
I mean, there are still tons of people that think Pres. Obama is going to come steal their guns, despite not having a single shred of evidence that he even has that intention, much less actually moving forward at making it a reality.
How long was Jackie Robinson in MLB before his legacy really started to take root, and truly open up the game for African Americans?
Booman, why do you keep on using the term “conspiracy theory”? One man’s conspiracy theory is another man’s business plan. Or at least may be.
There is a difference between death panels and reality, between truth and lies. Why suggest that anything thrown up by Republicans is a conspiracy theory? Don’t you believe that there is such a thing as a real conspiracy? There are conspiracies (that’s why there are laws against criminal conspiracies) and pretending (or worse, believing) that powerful people don’t ever join together to do things improper, immoral or sometimes even illegal is just stupid.
By the way, Alabama is in the Deep South. That’s not a theory.
I’m talking about birth certificates and ACORN and death panels.
Then use the actual offending beliefs (Kenyan birth certificate,etc.).
Word is they are going to cave and vote for the Senate bill.
If that proves true, what does that say about their previous ultimatum about the public option?
If they don’t make a stand now, don’t they live down to the stereotype that progressive politicians don’t need to be taken seriously because they are a bunch of (forgive the sexism) “girlie-men”?
You had a high opinion of the House Progressives prior to this? It’s the most dysfunctional caucus in Washington.
But I don’t know that they are caving completely. Have you heard word on a ping-pong?
The TPM story.
is an oxymoron.
Been here lately?
Golden State is another oxymoron.
Some defections reveal a defect in the body while others are nothing more than the body’s defecation. This would be the latter…
Booman – I think you overestimate the intelligence of our fellow citizens. It’s going to get a whole lot crazier for a time, probably with disastrous effect. And I’d LOVE to be wrong re this!!!
I grew up in Louisiana. Last month I went back for Thanksgiving and drove around a bit.
When I was growing up, there were 4 radio stations I could listen to – standard, mainstream top 40, light rock and classic rock stations. Now they are gone, with the exception of one top-40 type station, some country music and PBS. The rest of the dial is now filled with Christian stations and Christian rock.
The Christian stations all have “news” that is generally conservative commentary. Between songs, anti-Obama jokes are snide and frequent. The commentary about health care was about how your tax dollars will be funding abortions.
Basically, most of the radio dial was conservative propaganda. And that was the FM dial – I didn’t venture into AM. Add in Fox news as a primary news source for most people and a moribund local paper that few people read.
Obama could be the greatest president in generations, and the people getting their news from these sources will never, ever know he is even passingly competent. They are isolated from the political conversation of the rest of the US.
I’m from New Orleans and I’m now living in Dallas (soon to be back to NOLA in a little over a year though), and when i describe NOLA to people here, I describe it as a spot of blue in a sea of red. Louisiana is a RED state. The area of blue are in the large pockets of African-American voters in Louisiana.
When I do drive home ur right, it’s a long ’bout 7 hours of rock, christian, talk etc (none of which I listen to, I’m an R&B type of gal), til I get to about 1 hour out of Baton Rouge, then I can pick up more urban stations.
BT
I’m so glad that I have an XM radio and can listen to Air America all through the long drive from Chicago to Oklahoma City.
Once there, the ONLY news is Fox Noise (except for my priceless XM radio).
We’ve got plenty of stupid here in upstate New York as well. I went out to buy a snow shovel last week and got into a casual conversation with the clerk at the cash register. He figures that Al Gore is responsible for most of the world’s problems. I was at a loss, I have no idea how to engage a person like that.
I was born and raised in New Orleans, and now I live in Dallas. As an African-American whenever me and my family & friends drive home there are still pockets of the state where we won’t even stop for gas. If we have to we just fill up at the major city gas stations (Alexandria, Shreveport, Lafayette). One of my sisters nickmaned the smaller places “Shawshack”. Our motto when travelling is “we don’t stop in Shawshack”!
I have a friend who was born and raised in Evangeline Parish. I’m guessing that’s one of those places you don’t stop in. 🙂
One half of my family comes from Hogchain, Mississippi. Don’t try to find it on a map, but it’s south of Bogue Chitto.
The last time I was down there “dago” was not a term of derision but descriptive to separate an Italian from truly white people.
My Cajun friend says that when he goes home every year he thinks it’s cool the way all of the old (white)guys call each other “Nig”, as a term of endearment. I asked him twice to make sure I heard it right.
I can see the “Club for Growth” crowd primarying this guy, and the Dems mounting a real centrist Democrat against a far-right challenger.
The Democrats need a great deal of creativity here. Painting him as an opportunist is a very good move. Griffith is a snake.
It’s not who likes you in the mid-terms, it’s who turns out. Right now all the predictions are based on a low turnout by Democrats.
It’s time to think about WHY it was so hard to get a better health care bill, and move &(%^& to get more real Democrats. New Balance makes the best walking shoes.
We would have gotten a better HC bill if it hadn’t been for the “Rule of 60” in the Senate. It’s as simple as that.
Or if we had five more progressive Democratic Senators.
Yes, but the Rule of 60 exists now and the five more progressive Senators exists only in our dreams.
These personal anecdotes about the South are depressing. I thought this racist thing was largely generational everywhere in the U.S. But not at all in the South?
For the most part even in the South it is generational, but there is a subculture that works very hard at keeping racism alive. They’re photogenic because they play to people’s stereotypes. And then there are a lot of folks who talk like they agree with them out of fear as much as anything else.
I think of the dramatic difference in the mood in the South in the 1970s when every little place was proud to have ditch bigotry (except for some holdouts) and now when in some areas the assumption is that you agree with bigotry.
The South is a diverse and confusing place, moreso now because of all the non-southerners who have migrated to work in the factories of the “New South” – the Michelin, BMW, Merecedes, Toyota and other factories.
And remember that Alabama is the “Heart of Dixie”, and the state that had the most outright organized battles during the Civil Rights movement period. Mississippi had its terrorists in Philadelphia, but Alabama had Bull Connor and the Birmingham Fire Department. (And also the terrorists who bombed the 16th Street Baptist Church on a Sunday).
In Georgia Atlanta was “The city too busy to hate” and now Atlanta is “The city too busy to give a shit.”
The businessmen of the Carolinas made sure that desegregation went quickly and smoothly (after the 1961 sit-in in Greensboro). The same was true of Virginia, Tennessee, Arkansas, Louisiana, and Texas – the legacy of a few politicians who had New Deal roots and Southern progressive roots.
I’ve only been in the deep south once, and that was last Spring Break (2009) when I traveled to Pass Christian, Mississippi for Katrina relief.
Man, that place is a freaking disaster. Schools there were still in trailers.
Anyway, I didn’t experience or witness much racism in my week there, but in Alabama on the way there (16 hour drive), I saw some sign that basically said, “Anyone Who Isn’t a Christian is a Devil Worshiper.”
I wish I took a picture of it, and/or remembered exactly what it said. It made me chuckle.
Schools here in the “affluent” Chicago suburbs have trailers for classrooms too. And the sign doesn’t make me chuckle, it makes my blood run cold.
I was born and raised in Southern Ohio, in a place i call Dwindle City. Somewhat like Lake Wobegon, but without all the glitz and glamour. I broke out as soon as I graduated High School, but didn’t really cut the Ohio root until I graduated Ohio State, when I fled to the Left Coast, and have never looked back much, but I sent some money to the Obama headquarters in Dwindle City He lost there, but not badly. It was never Alabama, as described here, but it is borderline Appalachia.
Of course there are scary people back there, I remember them, I went to school with them, but I don’t think the insanity is that general.
Of course I am disappointed with Obama, but I knew I would be disappointed. I knew he was not elected to overthrow the government. I knew he could not be as progressive as I wished. I understand that there are real limitations on the office, but I think he has a much better sense of the real limitations of the presidency than most of the blogosphere. Maybe he is not as brave as you would like, or as i would like, but he can only deal with just so many enemies, many of whom are armed as well as dangerous.
And we can’t have peace, because the Generals would revolt and the war profiters would go broke; we cannot have justice because there are too many criminals in high places; the pirates are the only ones who know how to sail the ship; and the health industry makes too much money to risk tinkering with it.
Of course it’s an Oligarchy, always has been, the Founding Fathers were Oligarchs and wanted to build a system which would protect the status quo. The Repubs see this clearly, and sometimes even they, like Eisenhower, speak against the “Military-Industrial Complex”.
But I think it can be, and will be changed from within, not via some outside movement.
Remember how high the Repubs were riding under Gingrich ? All talking about how America had been changed forever, conservatism triumphant. Bush did not crash it alone.
Nor will Obama rebuild Progressivism alone. He is, I think, clearly overwhelmed right now, and his community organizer style seems ineffective, but he has more potential than anyone else in sight. I think he wants to do the right thing, but does not see his way clear to do it, and is not willing to fail trying when a more modest success is possible. If the left does not give him the same level of support that the right gave Bush, then we are part of the problem.
The same level of support? Unthinking, uncritical cheering and endless demonization of opponents?
There are parts of Alabama that I refuse to drive through. Hell, I refuse to drive through Florida – will only fly there.
The South is the South. I don’t want, because of the large Black population, to dismiss the South, because I want their votes to count, but I don’t delude myself…there’s no way that I, as a single, Black woman, is stopping anywhere in Alabama that’s not a major city, and even then, it’s questionable. I’ve pretty much been all over the South, because my parents are from Mississippi and Tennessee. I loathe the region for the most part. It’s a century back, and don’t let anyone say different. Kentucky, Oklahoma, Alabama, South Carolina has a plantation mentality all its own, and outside of the main cities in Florida, I don’t believe Black folk should be driving anywhere in that state.
Atlanta is a breath of fresh air.
This little defection by Griffith is a great opportunity for all to see the volatile frontier between the parties. The mainstream liberal media experts put this story out as the standard ‘Republicans gaining momentum going into 2010’ story, but it’s no such thing. The Republican Party is a mess and Griffith has given up a lot in making what he sees as the best of a bad choice. He gives up all power he has being in the majority right now, and gives the Democrats lots of time to come up with a candidate for the seat.
It didn’t take five minutes for the Club for Growth to say they would Scozzafava Rep. Griffith in his GOP primary. And if he wins, the NRCC probably won’t have much money to throw his way. If you have followed Griffith, he may not like Pelosi, but he doesn’t like the GOP reactionaries in Congress much more. He is caught between a rock and a very hard place. This is a genuine problem for Republicans and would-be Republicans who are not insane. Griffith represents Huntsville, a conservative but well-educated area surrounded by… well, surrounded by northern Alabama.
There are no happy choices for these people. W and Turd Blossom have trapped actual traditional conservatives inside a small party stuffed to the rafters with lunatics. This may work in the South, but it will cause electoral problems for the Republicans elsewhere as NY23 showed. The result will be that some more Teabaggers will be seated in the next Congress, a lot more conservatives with half a brain will spend their political lives in constant dread, and that Democrats will hold onto seats they have no business holding onto. But I wouldn’t expect expert observers in the media to notice this.