I guess Dick Durbin gets to play the bad guy. I am not optimistic that the Gang of Six will be able to produce anything that can pass Congress. I understand the premise of their argument. Democrats don’t want to touch Social Security and Republicans don’t want any tax increases, but they can basically trade one for the other. If both sides give a little on one of their sacred principles, then we can get a compromise. The problem comes in convincing either side to actually violate one of their sacred principles, regardless of what they get in return. In any case, it falls to Durbin, among the Gang of Six, to try to sell us on cuts to Social Security. It falls to Durbin because neither Sen. Mark Warner (D-VA) nor Sen. Kent Conrad (D-ND) has much credibility with progressives.
Now, there is an argument that can be made in favor of trading Social Security cuts for tax increases. At the root of the argument are two things. First, the premise that it is better to tackle the debt now than later, and better to tackle it with a Democrat in the White House than with a Republican. Second, the premise that, without touching Social Security, the Republicans will never agree to increase revenue. They have effective veto power over any deal, so even if Social Security isn’t contributing to the deficit in any direct way, it has to be on the table or everything collapses. I think the key is to examine the validity of those two premises.
It is probably better to tackle the debt now than later, and to do it with a Democrat in the White House. I think that’s a sound premise. It’s also true that the Republicans will make cuts to Social Security a condition of any deal that raises revenue. The problem, as I see it, is that the two sides still won’t be able to come to an agreement. In other words, giving in on Social Security will alienate too many Democrats, while raising taxes will alienate too many Republicans.
In this case, the premise is that a deal is not possible, which is what I believe to be true. And operating under that premise changes the political calculus. Both sides want to appear reasonable and willing to make concessions. Both sides want to be able to accuse the other side of intransigence. So, it’s actually in both sides’ interest to signal that they’re willing to make compromises that they are not actually willing to make.
I guess my biggest critique of this process is that we’re demanding too little. I mean, it’s nice to get Tom Coburn and Mike Crapo and Saxby Chambliss on the record saying that we’re going to have to raise revenues. It serves the same purpose for us as getting Durbin on the record saying we need to cut Social Security does for the Republicans. So, that’s kind of a wash on the surface. But dig deeper and you realize that raising revenues is directly related to the budget shortfalls while Social Security is only indirectly related, and through no fault of its own. If we had put the Social Security surplus in Al Gore’s lockbox where it belonged, then we would have had to raise revenues long before now.
I guess I just fantasize that at some not-too-distant point in the future we can win the argument sufficiently that we can craft a better solution than punishing seniors for the sins of a federal government that is too afraid to tax rich people. It’s probably not true that we can do that, but as long as the hope exists, I don’t see any grand bargain actually coming to fruition.
The whole thing is such a cynical waste of time. Neither side has any plans to accomplish anything this Congress, and yet they have to be seen doing something “big” or people will lose their shit over inaction in a time like this economically, so they’re just all going to play a big game. Then, even if nothing comes together, they can just continue to blame partisan gridlock and polarization in the upcoming election. It’s perfect electioneering, but as I said, look at the condition the country is in.
And this is all assuming that no deal is made. If one actually is given the current makeup of Congress, it will be a huge mistake. A better deal is surely waiting after Obama’s reelection, once Republicans finally make their peace that he’s the President. But I guess everyone is trying to copy the 1996 welfare reform plan instead…
The problem is that soaking the rich is very popular, and messing with Social Security isn’t. And just watch. If this deal ever was passed, the next election Republican would say that Democrats were trying to kill Granny. It’s what they do. They don’t care about facts. As Atrios said, it’s better to do nothing at all(except raise the debt limit and pass continuing resolutions) till the 2012 elections.
Actually, it seems to me that no matter who’s proposing to cut social security, the end result is that Granny gets less. And if Granny’s poor enough, then yes she may well die.
So while the GOP would be hypocrites for levying such an attack, they would be dealing in facts.
Someone tell Durbin if he keeps it up, voters will give him something to really cry about.
I posted this on DK but I wanted other’s thoughts on it.
Here is the current pay-out formula for someone retiring at 62 this year
Now that may not be a traditional means test in that it isn’t saying if you make above a certain amount you don’t get a benefit but it also isn’t a one dollar in/one dollar out program either. Anything over $749 is one dollar in 32 cents back and anything over $4517 is one dollar in 15 cents back up until $2366
I said this below but I will say again it does us no good to not acknowledge the existing progressivity in the pay-out formula.
So what is the proposal?
What is the proposal?
The proposal is “all of the above”.
what a crock of shit.
First of all social security doesn’t add the the deficit.
Second, if anyone was serious about closing the deficit, they would let the bush tax cuts expire. And stop starting pointless wars. And make cuts in Pentagon spending. And in vest in jobs/infrastructure that will pay off later.
But instead it’s “let’s starve granny.” DICK durbin can go fuck himself.
a federal government that is too afraid to tax rich people.
It’s our federal elected politicians that are afraid. The IRS operates on rules set by the politicians whims, not on its own.
There is kind of an odd post at DKOS right now. It attacks Durbin for saying there is a 22% shortfall in Social Security in 2037. But it then notes that there is a 25% shortfall in 2037.
Something doesn’t add up there.
In general, a social security fix would probably address some of the angst that is floating around with respect to the deficit. I do think there is a growing sense that out debt is getting out of control. Even though I know this isn’t really true, I do think there is good to come from having everyone agree that the issue has been addressed for the long term.
where did this get us in healthcare?
oh yeah..nowhere.
fuck this shyt and Durbin needs to be slapped for even being involved in this shyt.
how many votes did Baucus’ bullshyt get us on the GOP side during healthcare?
NOT A FUCKING ONE.
This is what Bill Clinton thought, and what Al Gore ran on in 2000.
It ignores the fact that the political issue isn’t debt; it’s government period. Cut spending to reduce the debt; pass more tax cuts to run up the deficit and the debt. Then get all worried about the debt again and force cuts in spending and additional tax cuts to run up the debt again. Rinse and repeat until only Republican interests are being funded out of government budgets.
You want to get rid of the debt. Pass one huge, highly progressive tax increase and close loopholes. The wealthy pay higher marginal taxes; non-tax-shelter investments (like jobs) are attractive again; workers prosper and they pay taxes; unemployment benefit outlays drop. And the debt disappears completely.
So what happens when government debt disappears completely. (1) You no longer have government T-bills to serve as a benchmark for other investments. (2) You eliminate the dooH niboR tax structure in which ordinary taxpayers (especially those with limited but still taxable incomes) pay for interest on the national debt that winds up in the accounts of the wealthy (yes, some of those wealthy are Chinese and Saudis). Now you know why Al Gore’s fiscal prudence was not rewarded. Indeed he scared the pants off Alan Greenspan.