I don’t want to see the pictures of Usama bin-Laden. But I wish others could see them if they wanted to. The administration has made several decisions that guarantee that a lot people are not going to believe that they killed bin-Laden. First, they tossed him in the sea without letting independent observers take a look at him. Second, they gave conflicting stories about how the operation went down. Third, they had a debate with themselves about whether to release the photos and then decided against it. I think all three decisions are completely defensible. But they add up to a murky, unconvincing picture.
What matters more than the truth here is that the narrative of bin-Laden is over. From the very beginning, any investigation of 9/11 that was carried out by a lawyer for al-Qaeda wasn’t going to be all that convincing. That’s what Bush did when he put Michael Chertoff in charge of the FBI’s investigation. The 9/11 Commission report was almost useless and even its co-chairs have heavily critical of their own product. The result is a cottage industry of conspiracy theorists. That’s not going to change, but they’ve just been given a lot more ammunition.
We’ll never get the real scoop on everything that went down and everyone who was responsible. Relations with the Saudis and Pakistanis had to be protected. Incompetence had to be covered-up.
I think it would be nice if the government could offer some better proof that they killed bin-Laden. But, ultimately, the thing that really matters is that they’ve killed his usefulness as a bogeyman. He won’t be releasing any more tapes, doctored or authentic.
Between our godawful corporate media and the wingnuts on the right, our political culture is so screwed up that in IMHO it doesn’t make much difference if Obama releases the photos or not. We left the reality-based world a long time ago…
A big part of the problem is that the internet has given nutjobs of every stripe the ability to congregate and amplify their crazy talk. Some of the winger sites are real fever swamps.
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The Pakistani military and intelligence community are interrogating the witnesses to the firefight at the compound. It’s more interesting what the US will find on the HD’s, CD roms and USB sticks. Apparently the assault lasted just minutes, most time was used to collect data. In Pakistan there are no IF questions, OBL is dead.
"But I will not let myself be reduced to silence."That Chertoff info is weird.
I believe that he’s dead and I don’t need the gore-soaked photos as proof. Those who are screaming for proof wouldn’t believe anything they saw anyway. We should be better than that.
These same people believe without question that Jesus lived and was crucified without any proof. They need to apply the same willingness to believe that Osama is dead. And he won’t be coming back. [sarc]
First they demanded the Birth Certificate, now the same people are demanding the Death Certificate, metaphorically speaking.
Not issue any more tapes?
It depends on how many he had in the can scheduled to be distributed but not yet distributed at the time of the raid. The recent one have been only of his voice behind older pictures of him.
There will be at least one. It will be instructive as to whether it is a memorial tape for the “martyr” or something pretending that bin Laden is still alive.
If the National Archives and others are allowed to preserve enough of the material, those of you who are alive 30-50 years from now will find out what happened. No doubt, there are a lot captured documents that will function as a rudimentary “al Quaeda archive”.
If al-Qaeda or some other terrorist group needs bin Laden to release a tape, a tape will be released.
It doesn’t matter that he’s dead – anyone can release a fake tape, our media idiots will spread it around and have chyrons up that say things like “Did bin Laden Escape Obama?” so that they can take the question “seriously”, the CIA or military intelligence will debunk it as a fake – and perhaps intelligence groups among our allies will do their own independent analysis and will do so as well, and anyone who wants to believe in the conspiracy theory that the US faked bin Laden’s death will have more proof in that debunking.
Hell it doesn’t even have to be a group like al-Qaeda releasing the tape – someone like James O’Keefe could hire a guy to do a bin Laden tape, release it to the media, and have them all treat it “seriously”. If he gets caught the story would just become how gullible and stupid the press is. (Of course the Justice Department and the CIA might have a few words with whoever pulled a stunt like that, but that doesn’t stop me from thinking that one of them will try it…)
BooMan your first paragraph in this story is the most sensible thing you’ve said so far about this whole affair. 🙂
Given that the mission was evidently some time in the planning, it is very strange that the Administration appears not to have thought through carefully how it would play the immediate aftermath. I guess for the domestic US audience the only thing that matters is that OBL is dead, and personally I do not begrudge Barack Obama the lift in approval this has brought him. He needs a break.
The lack of any autopsy or independent witnesses to the dead body is just the start of a string of mistakes which are bound to cause doubts about what really happened. There have been not just a couple of different stories about what happened during the raid, but multiple. OBL resisted apprehension. OBL used a woman, possibly his wife, as a human shield. OBL was unarmed. The woman was standing between US forces and OBL. There were two weapons in the room. Etc etc.
Then the debate conducted in public about whether to release photos. You’d think there would be some talking points and that the White House would be in charge. But Leon Panetta goes out and says the photos will be released. And he goes on the record saying that OBL’s whereabouts were revealed by intelligence gained from waterboarding, which the President has labelled torture and banned. (Oh, I forgot Panetta has form on that subject and wasn’t uncoordinated, merely malevolent. Why would you make him Secretary of Defense?)
This must be going down really well in the Muslim world. It’s certainly made it clear to me that we will never be sure of the truth about last Monday morning in Abbottabad.
There seems to be an inordinate number in the crowd who want to see the pictures that also wanted to cheer on harsh torture. Who are these people?
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Cross-posted from my diary – Order to Kill Was Legitimate According to U.S. Law
"But I will not let myself be reduced to silence."very interesting
This whole photo thing strikes me as yet more of the Obama administration tin ear for the consequences of their communication. By deciding against releasing photos they lost control of the issue and assured ongoing conspiracy theories in the US, and more importantly, abroad. They make it too easy for even impartial observers to wonder if they are indeed covering something up.
Their reasons seem extremely weak. Americans can’t take seeing the result of their country’s actions? That’s pretty sad. I guess I’m of the “naked lunch” persuasion: if you’re going to dine, be ready to really look at what’s on the end of your fork. As to reaction to such photos abroad, it seems obvious that leaving doubt will foment more distrust and hostility than getting the evidence out in the open.
I don’t want to see the photos, but we claim to be reality-based. If we’re to live up to that standard, we have to be ready to see exactly what’s been done in our name, no matter how painful, disgusting, or horrifying it might be. If we can’t, we never should have done it.
I’m glad they’re not showing photos. The admin has a balance between taking him out and respecting the fact that a human being is dead. Burial at sea if Saudi Arabia refused to take him for burial, means proper rites and burial within the 24 hour mandate period, but no location for pilgrimage. Good idea. Avoiding exploitation of the photos of the remains is good.