The hard part is over. The stupid crazy ridiculous pathetic disgusting House of Representatives passed the debt ceiling hike by a 269-161 margin (Dems 95-95, GOP 174-66). The highlight was the mid-vote return of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords to the House floor where she cast her vote in favor of the compromise. It was a moving gesture, although I’ve never felt quite so ambivalent about a vote before. I’m actually surprised that the vote was so lop-sided. The Dems held their votes back to force as many Republicans to buck their nutty base as possible. But once Giffords arrived, they joined her in support and the numbers shot way past the 216 or 217 they needed to assure passage of the bill.
It moves now to the Senate where Majority Leader Reid has announced they will hold the vote at noon tomorrow. So, technically, we will have blown past the deadline. Hopefully, the strong House vote will prevent any panic or downgrading of our credit rating. Reid will need 60 votes, but he’ll have no problem getting that number. The debt ceiling crisis has been averted.
At what cost, you ask? We’ll find out, won’t we?
Mitch McConnell Vows To Hold Debt Ceiling Hostage In The Future: `We’ll Be Doing It All Over’
They know they can roll over Obama any time they want.
Why do you guys pee your pants every time a Repub talks? The only reason we are here is because we have a Repub House. And if we don’t take back the House and lose the Senate OF COURSE he’s going to do it again because Repubs will still control 1 or 2 Chambers plain and simple.
Repubs also continue to act this way because voters keep sending them back to Washington, the MSM keeps coddling them and the left keeps letting them off the hook by putting the blame on Dems and never organizing to fight the right people.
If you accept Mitch’s word as fact then you are the one rolling over.
Wow. He isn’t peeing in his pants, you … person. He is merely making an observation of truth and experience.
Where are the cuts Obama “put on the table?”
Why are Social Security, Medicaid, and Medicare benefits exempt from the trigger?
I’ve yet to see a single outraged progressive who could answer this question.
calm down, Joe. EdJ isn’t a progressive, he’s the resident anti-Obama commenter. best to ignore him.
bona fides in my little finger than you have in your whole sorry self.
Well then. The Republicans will have their fingerprints on everything that happens between January 2011 and November 2012. Why? Because they will be driving the agenda. And it won’t take long for the consequences of going back to supply-sidism to become apparent. The economy is that fragile.
You might not have noticed that Nancy Pelosi smoked out 171 Republicans to walk the plank on this POS bill. Only 69 Republicans will be able to say they did not vote for raising the debt. But 95 Democrats will be able to say they voted against both raising the debt and saving Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid. There are a lot of interesting House campaign commercials buried in the 2 hour debate.
And the Democrats who voted for were a lot of the same people who voted against the health care bill because it was “too socialist” or “promoted abortion”.
This is rule by minority. And certainly, The TP’rs share the tactics of terrorists, while the fight brought to bear upon them has the outdated hallmark of fighting the old Conservative establishment.
Adapt damn it!
…this is really a dog-whistle to continue bird-dogging that uppity ###### (Yeah, I have considered the imagery). They got ‘im on the run, and will keep the yapping hounds (the teabaggers) on his heels. So far, given the way the President’s performance has been described in the press and editorialized in the Blogosphere, the general image is of a man who gives away the game as (or before) he takes the field–not a person who inspires one to take a stance with him….because nobody knows if he has your back.
I think I’d laugh if I knew I wouldn’t puke at watching the undisguised bigotry and racism from Conservative leaders, or the apparent absence of principles from the Executive… Where is his ‘line in the sand’? Where will he finally put his foot down, and say “This is enough…no more!”??
So McConnell just announced to the world, don’t invest in U.S. treasury bonds, because we’ll be pulling this stunt again and again. And he’s one of the “responsible” Republicans. Great.
I think they probably could have gotten more out of the Democrats by having the fight over the 2012 budget, and burned a lot less political good will to boot.
In North Carolina, only Heath Shuler voted For it. Walter Jones voted against it on the GOP side.
Heath Shuler and all of the Repubicans, including Foxx, Myrick, and McHenry, voted Yes.
That is pretty much as I expected the vote to turn out. The only surprise was Mike McIntyre voting against it.
Help me out here, Booman. What’s the deal with the Bush tax cuts? They can’t be addressed by this stupid super commission. But there’s zero reason to expect that they will all be allowed to sunset right? The President has boxed himself in on that one, and the Republicans may try to get that last 2%, but if they don’t take back both chambers and/or the White House in 2012, they won’t let them all sunset, right?
I ask this because it seems the talking point du jour is that if the Bush tax cuts all expire (which is want the President totally secretly wants for reals, even though he’s stuck to his 98% position like a rock since he first started campaigning), then the cuts/revenue ratio makes the Republicans look ridiculous. But seeing the sunset of all the tax cuts is just a liberal fantasy, right? Look at December.
http://bobcesca.com/blog-archives/2011/08/upon-further-examination.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/democrats-will-lose-now-but-they-can-win-later/2
011/07/11/gIQARfWOlI_blog.html#pagebreak
they can definitely be addressed by the supercongress. That’s the idea, in fact. On the one hand, you have cuts in discretionary spending. On the other you have “tax reform” which is basically what Bill Bradley did for Ronald Reagan. You cut out all the loopholes for three-martini lunches and soy beans, and you can actually lower rates for everyone, while actually collecting more revenue. Throw in some tweaks to entitlements, especially Medicare, and you’re done.
That’s what this committee is supposed to do. If it works, it should make the debate over the Bush tax cuts irrelevant.
But suppose the committee can’t manage to agree on tax reform. In that case, regardless of what the House does, Harry Reid will not act on the Bush tax cuts until after the election. The Republicans will argue that Obama is going raise taxes on everyone. Obama will argue that he’s going to raise taxes only on those making a quarter of a million or more a year.
If Obama loses reelection, he’ll probably let all the Bush taxes expire. If he wins, he’ll probably try to keep his promise and on;t raise rates on top earners.
There’s a loophole for soy beans? Pass the edamame!
Yumm.
Why is it that when Liberals bring up the Tax Deal they NEVER EVER bring what the other 98% got from that deal?
Hey, speaking of 98%:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/08/01/eveningnews/main20086598.shtml
Um, they got to keep their tax breaks, including the ones designed in the stimulus and like the patched AMT and stuff.
…That’s why the administration had no choice but to let all of them survive. Yes? They had no leverage. Not even counting unemployment insurance and DADT, etc.
I don’t have any issue with the December deal. I thought the President made some good lemonade there. I would’ve liked to see Democratic congressmen take issues like taxes and debt limits on before elections when possible, but then if they did that, they wouldn’t be the Dems we know and love.
Though I don’t suppose I speak for “Liberals,” whoever they are.
Yes, I agree. If they actually found a principle that they could stand on, and actually stood on it, they wouldn’t be Democrats.
They’d be Republicans.
Democrats fold, Republicans stick to their guns.
Well, it sure is a relief to see it all explained clearly like that.
Where are the cuts Obama “put on the table?”
Why are Social Security, Medicaid, and Medicare benefits exempt from the trigger?
I’ve yet to see a single outraged progressive who could answer this question.
I wish you guys would stop spamming each other.
Okay,
So, I commented before reading your links. My mistake.
I understand what you’re talking about now. The CBO baseline number assumes the Bush tax cuts will expire so you can’t get credit for eliminating them under the language of the bill.
And, in fact, if you do anything short of eliminating them entirely, you’re actually losing money under the formula.
That’s interesting.
I think Bob is being a little too cute with his assessment. But it does constrain what the committee can do. I’ll have to think about it for a while and consider possible angles the parties will use to attack.
It is funny that the baseline has more in tax hikes than they’re being asked to cut. But that is no guarantee we’ll finish out that way.
I don’t suppose the committee could plausibly pass something that doesn’t lower the deficit. Though that would be an entertaining capper to all this.
So that means that unless congress takes up an additional parallel initiative beyond the committee to deal with taxes before the election (which I can’t imagine they will), it’s pretty much guaranteed to come up in December.
And while I understand why people are quick to latch onto conspiracies that all the cuts will expire by a passive veto or whatever, I just can’t see how the President inaugurates his reelection by raising taxes on every American. He’s been pretty hardcore on promising a specific raise on a very small group of people. I think that’s likely a mistake, because he hasn’t been one for breaking his promises, so it would cost him a lot even if it’s good policy. So I don’t know where that leaves him.
You’d have to figure he’s gonna make his pledge not to raise taxes on 98% of Americans a central part of his campaign? I don’t see how he can stand by and let that promise evaporate a month after reelection and not expect that to negatively impact what he’ll be able to get out of the next congress, whoever controls it.
You don’t know where that leaves him?
I sure do.
He’s gonna concede on the Bush tax cuts, and there will be another delay in the ending of them. The Repukes will threaten, and Barack “Mr. Fold-here” will fold.
All that is unknown about the next round of craven, cowardly, gutless concessions is WHEN he will do it?
Will he concede BEFORE he has to, or AFTER?
Your anger is considerably less impressive than you think it is.
Gosh, thanks. Nothing like an appreciative audience.
Where are the cuts Obama “put on the table?”
Why are Social Security, Medicaid, and Medicare benefits exempt from the trigger?
I’ve yet to see a single outraged progressive who could answer this question.
Well, I can answer this one. The past is the future. Obama talked tough about the Bush tax cuts last time, and ended up trading away considerable leverage for 2 packs of gum and a large Coke.
In 2012, with the election coming, what will the Repukeliscum do? Really a trick question, actually. They will say that the lapsing of the tax cut is a tax increase. This will spook Obama, and he will cave.
The Bush tax cuts will never be repealed, because Obama is a huge pussy.
DADT repeal, START, UI extension and an overhaul of the food safety system is “two packs of gum and a warm Coke.”
Of course, if Obama had failed to pass those things, they would be the subject of your constant, tedious whining.
The Bush tax cuts are counted in the baseline scenario for the commission, meaning that their expiration, and the additional revenue, is assumed. If they are extended, that will be counted as an increase to the deficit, and it will be even harder for the commission to accomplish its work.
is really outstanding. Here’s a black and white situation (ahem) where once the far right maniacs took power in the House, the only question was how to minimize the damage. On this issue, it was obvious that the GOP wacknuts were hoping for an Allende style “ungovernability” result. Anyone who listened to McConnell and Hatch speak knew that the so-called moderates of the GOP were on board. They are itching for a total collapse they can ride to a win in 2012 if not to a putsch before. And yet the progressives run around yelling that the President needs to “demand” and “insist” on things he has no power to enforce and walk into exactly the crisis that the GOP asks for. People who claim to have read Naomi Klein and Naomi Wolf, seem to have zero grasp of what’s at stake here.
The progressives that are running around yelling are tremendously naive about what we’re up against. that’s why they keep demanding ponies and a counter-productively confrontational Obama and Obama walking into the crisis the GOP is trying to trigger. It’s great to have a haven of realism here at the frog pond, including the excellent, many-sided discussion. I’m curious about the Villager reactions today (e.g. Maureen Dowd). Do really want one of the GOP candidates? are they just reflexively anti-Obama?
I would say persistently and self-consciously naive. I remember a haiku from the 1980s.
Naivete is the invisibility cloak that provides safety from the moral responsibility of failure through inaction or through running around like a chicken with your head cut off. It is when discourse descends to mantras. Same old. Same old. Over and over again. To takes away the pain of personal responsibility for inaction and failure.
It was Obama’s fault that we lost the 2010 elections. In part it was. In part it was Tim Kaine’s fault. In part it was the unequal playing field created by Citizens United that came unexpectedly. (What do the Supremes have planned for 2012?) In part it was the media promoting the Tea Party as the next new thing. But it was also the progressive movement’s failure to field candidates to run against weak Republicans. The failure to build on gains from 2008. And the sitting waiting for OFA to tell local progressives what they needed to be doing that lost prescious movement-building time.
But Obama has become the scapegoat. Or conversely, the “professional left” has become the scapegoat. It was a failure of grassroots progressives to be self-starters, to figure out at the grassroots how to carry on the fight. That happened in a few places; I know there are some commenters on various blogs who have reported the battle scars they got from trying to participate locally in Democratic Party structures. And folks who succeeded with some local progressive victories. And there were some near-misses, such as the re-election of Tom Perriello.
One hostage crisis after another. That’s the Obama style. They threaten, he concedes. It’s like the sun rising in the morning. Obama has NEVER NOT A SINGLE FUCKING TIME found a single Democratic principle that he would take a fucking stand on. The Repukes know a fucking pussy candyass when they see one, and this one’s name is Barack Obama.
The past is the future with Barack. They will threaten, and he will fold. That’s the Obama presidency. It came with the perforations already built in. They are called “bipartisonshit” folds. He loves him some bipartisanshit, and the Repukes play that card all the way to the win.
He’s a loser. He’s much worse than Carter.
So when Obama faced down GOP demands that EPA carbon regulation and Planned Parenthood funding be banned in the 2011 budget, where were the worthless chickenshit “progressives”? Under their beds pissing themselves OH NOES A CAVE.
The fact that the RNC does not have to pay you people is a testimony to suckerness beyond imagination.
Don’t forget your “Obama, forgive me, for I have not kissed your picture tonight”.
Obamabots are not just a river in egypt.
Where are the cuts Obama “put on the table?”
Why are Social Security, Medicaid, and Medicare benefits exempt from the trigger?
I’ve yet to see a single outraged progressive who could answer this question.
Where are the entitlement cuts Obama “put on the table?”
Two days ago, those oh-so-serious proposals were your constant talking point to explain why Obama was being rolled.
Why aren’t there any of those cuts in the deal?
Why are Social Security, Medicaid, and Medicare benefits explicitly ruled out of the trigger?
I’m pleased we did not default. Of course, this hostage crisis is merely the foreshadowing of the next hostage crisis. Because the debt ceiling will need to be raised again.
And once a bunch of corrupt losing turds has won by blackmail, the next blackmail attempt is so much easier to do. In January 2013, we do this whole thing again.
Except it will be worse. On that round, if the Repukes have the Senate, they will kill Social Security and Medicare.
“Because the debt ceiling will need to be raised again.”
If you were a little more familiar with the topic you’re discussing, you’d know that the deal extends the debt ceiling past the 2012 elections.
And if you could look at a calendar, you would know that January 2013 is actually past the next election.
OOOOOOOOBBBBBAAMAMAMA
OOOOHHHHHHHHMMMMMMMMM
You need to chant harder, and it will clear up the fog around the calendar for you.
This really is as good as it gets for you, kid. Hope you’re enjoying the attention, because when all this blows over, life for you will be irrelevant again.
Why, exactly, do you imagine that repeating my point back to me is some sort of awesome rebuttal?
“January 2013 is actually past the next election.”
Yes, the Republicans WILL not be in control of the House.
And…?
“And once a bunch of corrupt losing turds has won by blackmail, the next blackmail attempt is so much easier to do.”
That’s the received wisdom, and it may be right. But I’ve been thinking about it. The fact is, there’s not one TP that is remotely happy about the way this thing worked out for them. They expected WAY more. And I don’t think most of them have the slightest idea how much ill will they stirred up — against themselves. They’ll find out soon enough. So I’m not entirely sure they will be so eager to try this again any time real soon.
As for Boner, I don’t know what to say. The fact is that in the end he (with a lot of help) forced the TP, or some of them anyway, to heel. So I’m not sure it matters how much the TP hates him.
It’s unfortunate, though, that Cantor is going to be in the Supercongress. I don’t see that working out too well.
We can only hope! Think about the backlash. They’d lose 190 seats in the House.
In fact, it may be better to let them have the White House and Congress and then we can take the debt ceiling hostage using the filibuster and demand single payer.
The trick is we have to be willing to kill the economy if they don’t meet our demands. Either way, we win. We either get single payer or we create a great depression that gets hung on the party in power and they get swept out.
25% unemployment and bread line won’t be fun, but the pain will only be short term, 4 to 6 years tops. I realize no one likes pain, but as the saying goes, no pain, no gain. And sadly, it’s true. There would be no New Deal without the Great Depression. There would no Medicare without JFK’s assassination. Slavery would have lasted into the 20th century without the Civil War.
So, you are willing to actually allow the Repukes to kill Medicare and Medicaid, to get the House back?
Is that what you are saying?
Because that is insane. Once a program is dead, it is often quite hard or actually politically impossible to reestablish it.
SK is fucking with you. It’s snark. Jesus.
Let them to kill Medicare. Let them dance on the 3rd rail. That will create an enormous backlash that in turn leads to overwhelming, crushing Congressional majorities that will lead to the passage of single payer.
If you study politics, great accomplishments originate from backlashes and chaos.
Does the Civil Rights Act get passed in 1964 without Kennedy’s death? No. It would have taken another 15 to 20 years without a catalyzing event. But the shock and horror of his murder galvanized the country to rally behind his successor and his agenda.
So in order to accomplish great programs, we first need a big backlash.
Sure seniors will die in the time it takes to establish single payer, but you can’t make an omelette without breaking a few eggs.
Agree, SK, that Dallas helped Kennedy’s successor get JFK’s remaining bills passed more quickly, but disagree on whether Medicare and the CR bill would have passed had he not been killed.
Kennedy, had there not been a Dallas, would have gone on to get Goldwater as a hapless opponent, and won by a wide margin, bringing in a liberal working majority (finally) in Congress after 1964. His CR bill would have passed after that — or following the next major public outrage over Southern segregationist violence against peaceful c.r. demonstrators, as happened with the 1963 Birmingham incident. The tide was increasingly in favor of the CR bill after 1963, but Kennedy himself thought that his entire package of bills (CR, Medicare, Tax Reform, etc) would need about 18 months to pass.
As for Medicare, it missed passing by only one vote (effectively) in 1962 w/that more conservative Congress, but with a solid Kennedy victory at the 1964 elections and new liberal Congress, along with favorable public opinion, it would have stood a good to very good chance of passing in ’65 as JFK would have been working with the clever and crafty Maj Leader Mike Mansfield to ensure no anti-Medicare committee chairmen blocked its path.
Now the question is are YOU personally willing to go through that “pain for gain”? Are you willing to let a friend or loved one go through that “pain for gain”?
I’m willing to sacrifice for the greater good.
Besides, I could stand to lose a few pounds.
Yes! So could I, Miss Kitty! May I call you “Sex”?
Go ahead. Take your best shot.
Too soon?
The only way you support a bill like this is if you have a hole in your head.
That’s it! I’m never voting, volunteering, or donating to her, again!
She’s as good as dead to me.
I believe you’ve you’ve got a wicked case of snark, Miss Kitty.
To every Negro that visits here–on their best behavior of course–or lurks here, keep telling yourself white liberals are any less evil than white conservatives. An evil mutha fucka like this bastard here doesn’t even have the decency to fake decency. And if you think this is bad, go to Firedoglake and read the vile shit they are saying about Gabby Giffords, and Daily Kos barely made mention of her return. Oh they loved her when her shooting could be used as a weapon against the right, but now that she’s voted for this bill they are treating her like an unarmed Black kid shot in the head by white police, which means she ain’t shit to them now. I expect by the end of the week they’ll have a fund-raising drive for her shooter’s legal defense fund.
I think you need to turn on your snark radar.
Tomorrow’s Senate vote will be held by suspending the Senate procedural rules. This can only happen if every Senator consents (all 100 of them).
Bernie can kill the bill by declining to suspend the rules.
At this late hour, that would force the Senate and House to either vote for a clean bill or a bill that Bernie prefers. If the Senate declines to act, then the lack of congressional action would force the President to invoke the 14th amendment to raise the debt ceiling.
Do it, Bernie! Do it!
You’re in a solid safe seat, Bernie. Do it!
Take hostages and put the debt ceiling gun to McConnell’s head.
Do it, Bernie!
You have nothing to lose and everything to gain.
I saw you on tee vee complaining about the deal Bernie, if you really mean it, then pull the gun and take them hostage.
Do it, Bernie!
Dataguy, a key part of the plan, Rovian to the core, has been to penetrate the left blogosphere and foment and focus the anger that should rightfully be directed elsewhere. Drop a few crumbs or a screaming headline on KOS and you have an endless Obama bitch session in minutes. You seem to have a lot of misplaced anger–Rove is smiling tonight.
That would be 10 Dimensional chess. But since Obama is the master of 11 dimensional chess, he already thought of that, and has conceded it already.
Speaking of things that Obama has conceded already, where are the entitlement cuts that he “put on the table?”
Why are Social Security, Medicaid, and Medicare benefits explicitly excluded from the trigger?
.
Obama warned, “Eric, don’t call my bluff. I’m going to the American people with this.” [Raw audio]
Cross-posted from my diary – Fair Taxation?
"But I will not let myself be reduced to silence."Obama is a blue dog, which is to say a moderate Republican. He believes a combination of hippy punching and blunting the Repukes will win him a majority of voters.
As a resident of SD, I saw a blue dog lose by that very recipe. Steph Herseth-Sandlin took a moderately strong position in 2008 and just blew it away by blue doggy votes. I worked the election for her, went door to door, and saw NO enthusiasm for her, but huge enthusiasm for the other side.
Blue dogs think they win points by hippy punching, but actually what happens is punched hippies close their wallets and don’t help.
That’s what Obama is doing. All this hippy punching he loves so much is just pissing off the base, who won’t pay up and won’t work.
Kiss his ass goodbye.
Sorry, kid. You’re not that powerful. Otherwise you wouldn’t be trolling a blog message board, now would you?
Precisely. Punch hippies and we punch back. We might be (mostly) nice about it, but punch back it is. Way I look at it, our “leaders” need us to give them legitimacy far more than we need them – way they’ve performed, I’d say they’re looking less and less useful every day. Keep punching. Just don’t expect us to lend a hand when you’re drowning come you next campaign, don’t expect us to donate to your affiliated organizations, and do expect us to look for and advocate alternatives to the stupidity that reigns in DC.
I have 100 resumes to review before 1 AM. So, no more comments.
I am annoyed and more than annoyed with Obama. It is not just this situation, where he took a winning hand and just conceded to Republicans. This is … I’ve lost track of how frequent … over and over. The pattern is the same. They push the limit, he does not. He concedes sometimes before the actual discussion begins.
He’s Bush with a health care law.
But Obama is no democrat. That’s for sure.
I’ll vote for him. I’ll work for the local dem against Noem. But beyond that i dunno. I’ll vote for a blue dog, but I just don’t work for one.
And there are a lot of people like me who do not feel like working hard to elect someone who pushes policies they oppose. Call me a traitor, call me a dirty hippy, but I am NOT the only one.
No doubt Obama is a disappointment. A weak president. A poor tactician and strategist. Not even a good communicator as he was touted during the campaign. Clinton was WAY better. Especially off the cuff and thinking on his feet.
And the worst thing…he seems to have no strong convictions.
And what’s worse yet. We have a Congress full of Democrats just like him.
“…..And the worst thing…he seems to have no strong convictions….”
If you’re going to use Anthony Weiner’s talking points make sure you have cell phone clips to go with them
Something to think about:
Link
That letter made me so wet.
Nothing hits the spot like validation.
I’m gonna defeat Obambi if it’s the last thing I do.
Are you sure every single blogger that said “bad Obama” has had their pieces quoted verbatim here? I’d hate to think we missed even one.
First, it’s not a blogger, it’s a reader. Second, look at AG’s comment below. This is about a media narrative that is there, whether you want to admit it or not. You can either look at what people are thinking and see where a corporate media narrative is going, or ignore it. Your choice.
So you linked to a readers letter, rather than a blog. Wow. Ok, I apologies. That’s even more convincing.
The difference between you and me is that you want to breathlessly relay every complaint about this shit deal and how its all Obamas fault, and i am trying to look at how we go forward and prevent this stupid situation in congress happening again. We all get it, you and other people blame Obama for all our ills and see him as personally responsible for everything. But constantly carping on and on and on about it is a titanic waste of energy and is massively counterproductive.
There ARE some advantages to this shit deal going forward, ya know. For example, Social Sec and Medicare is ring fenced, the debt ceiling has been pushed to 2013 and the Budget will be passed without a vote, all of which has the effect of minimizing the damage the Tea party can do and lessens the opportunities for the kind of crazy crises politics we have seen. Those are important things going forward into the election. You can wallow in your misery and how its all the presidents fault, and good luck with that, but I’m going to focus on what little I can do to get these morons out of power, and what strategies can be used to frustrate them in the mean time.
Oh yeah, the deal with the auto makers President Obama secured last week in the middle of all this stupidity is good too.
Just browsing through the numerous comments here, (I didn’t read every one.) I am stunned at how politically immature all of us here seem to be. And I thought this was a politically smart bunch.
You all disgust me. You’re all so upset about something that you, or your elected officials, couldn’t do anything about.
We was hijacked!
We was Robbed!
YES, we were! You are absolutely right about that. But could anyone have really done anything substantially different to avoid this? We were held hostage in a terrorist situation.
It seems to me that if you can not support Democrats after this because they “screwed you over,” the least you could do is organize to defeat the Terrorists that did this to us all. Let’s align with anyone who can not stand this type of political terrorism against the people, even if they are not of our political stripe.
I was just replying to a couple of obnoxious comments about Orrin Hatch in another thread and I tell you, these political terrorists are just as much out to destroy the very honorable conservative (who I don’t agree with politically) Orrin Hatch in order to replace him with an insane Teabagger. This is the type we need to ally ourselves with to defeat these terrorist extremists.
We have a bunch of battles ahead. If we are to get these awful people out of the political system, we need to stick together and hang tight with our friends (even from different parties) to drive them out. We may not agree on alot of things but we need to be tolerant of each other in order to clean house of these terrorists.
See this parable. This is where we are. We need to work together, not separate.
Okay fire away at me now. You’re all really pissed off and need to take it out on someone. Believe me, I am upset too. But if it makes you feel better, I’ll take all your hate. Just scream at me. It’s okay.
You are right, but on top of that I am appalled by the narrow, craven perspective exhibited by so many on this thread and similar ones. People need to find out more and think more, get more perspective. The other day, Booman linked to two interesting pieces that had more very different interpretations.
http://swampland.time.com/2011/08/01/five-things-for-liberals-to-like-in-the-debt-ceiling-deal/#ixzz
1TnKSgfEi
http://www.thepeoplesview.net/2011/08/paul-krugman-is-political-rookie-or-how.html
Here are some others:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-08-02/debt-battle-revealed-tea-party-s-many-divisions-ramesh-ponn
uru.html
http://madwombat.wordpress.com/2011/08/01/why-the-debt-ceiling-bill-isnt-all-that-bad/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/barackobama/8675403/US-debt-crisis-Barack-Obama-looks-like
-a-winner.html
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/djsaunders/detail?entry_id=94237
http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/82444,news-comment,news-politics,us-debt-deal-tea-party-may-regret-thi
s-victory
Thank you, RandyH, you’re saving me a lot of typing lately. I scroll down these long comment threads, composing a comment in my head and there you are–pretty much saying what I feel needs saying. But, I’ll add…
To the Blame-Obama-is-a-Pussy/Wimp crowd, I’m gonna be blunt: GROW THE FUCK UP! Do you really think using the 14th followed by IMPEACHMENT proceedings in the House and Obama being called down to testify to insulting questions from Teabagger nuts was the BETTER OPTION over this deal? Put your bodies where your mouths are, man the barricades and go start a bloody revolution! Demanding that Obama be a “magical negro” and being all disappointed when he’s not is really pissing me off. GROW THE FUCK UP!
Once you get out of this narrow ghetto (and this blog is one of the very best!) you realize that opinions on who won and who lost are all over the map. That’s because no one really knows. It’s also because the political players are spinning like mad. Yet everybody assumes the answer is A FACT.But it’s sure easy to spin “progressives”, who are already convinced that Obama is an empty suit, has no idea what he’s doing, caves every time, and everything is his fault. Period.
Anyway, here’s some more food for thought:
http://www.nationaljournal.com/politics/family-feud-gop-rifts-on-display-in-debt-ceiling-debate-2011
0730
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/craig-crawford/why-obama-won-debt-deal_b_914481.html
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/08/02/us-usa-debt-teaparty-idUSTRE7710R820110802
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"But I will not let myself be reduced to silence."“Given how little actually takes immediate and full effect in this legislation and how much is kicked down the road, Congress could have just passed a clean debt ceiling increase months ago, avoiding this prolonged and pitiful distraction.”
Exactly. And whose idea was it to hold the country hostage at the brink of default? And for what purpose?
So for this legislation to amount to very little is a major victory for Democrats. The TP thought it was doing to be Armaggedon.
Aside from the “he said-she said” journalism, there is the closely related technique of referring to everything that happens in Washington as simply “Washington”. Just as “he said-she said” gives the impression that both sides always have a valid argument, the “Washington is broken” meme gives the idea that both parties are equally to blame for not doing anything for the people.
It looks like the verdict is in.
Who won?
I dunno for sure, but Obama lost.
In the mainstream media…where it counts…not in the leftiness blogs where it doesn’t count.
The population of the U.S…the know-nothing section of it, the forever “undecideds”, the swing vote, the only vote that matters…has been informed that Barack Obama is a weak man. And we don’t like weak men, us Americans, right?
True, false or somewhere in between, that is his new public face. The “undecideds” are being decided…by the media. Just as it’s always been.
Obama is through, I think.
Next?
A DemRat primary?
Possibly, because the Ratpub candidates don’t look so hot either.
AHHHHHH ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!
AG
Watch.
If she resigns as Sec. State before October or so…watch.
Betcha.
AG
Well Carville’s been setting up on CNN for Obama’s exit.
Others will join Carville. the Klinton Khorus is just tuning up. Watch.
I suspected that Obama wouldn’t last when he publicly said “One Term As President Would ‘Be Fine’ With My Family”.
C’mon…that’s not something that a committed Preznit would say. The look on his face while watching the bin Laden murder in progress says it all.
He looks like he’s watching a particularly nasty horror film.
All of the other pros in the room…with the exception of Ms. Clinton, who looks like she’s about to upchuck…either look congenitally stupid (Biden) or simply involved with another day at the (killing) office.
Obama looks like he wants out. And what fairly sensitive human being could blame him? Those of you who have kids…how hard do you think it wold be be tuck them in at night while you have the blood of thousands dripping off of your hands? He’s living a fucking nightmare.
Now true, born-to-the-job Preznits are borderline (or beyond) sociopaths, really.
Fucked up in New Orleans?
Let’s paaaaartay!!!
Millons held in economic imerialist slavery while Americans scoff up the goodies?
What…me worry?
Bad day at the office? Cop a little nookie and fuggedaboudit!!!
To tell you the truth, I do not think that Barack Obama is enjoying his present post very much. Not because he is having a hard time…I just don’t think that he truly enjoys the fray in the way that real political junkies like Hillary and Bill Clinton or Richard Nixon enjoy(ed) it.
At heart, he’s a university professor. His speeches are like lectures; he is dismayed and apparently a little out of his element when he is opposed and I personally think that he ought to get himself and his family outta town while the getting is good.
One term would be “fine” w/his family?
You bet it would. You know how it is said of some convicted criminals that the several years they spend in prison will be adequately recompensed by their stolen millions that were never recovered? Well, the Obama family will now neve, ever have to worry about how to make a good income.
Bet on it.
I think that I would probably like the guy if I knew him under different circumstances. He’s smart; he paid some serious dues to get where he is now and I wish him all the best.
But he’s not built for the presidency.
Some people here seem to think that I have some sort of “Hillary fixation.” Lissen up, folks. If there was someone else who I thought had the position, talents and desire to cut the legs out from underneath the “vast right-wing conspiracy” that is bringing his country to the brink of collapse and rebirth as a militarily-enforced oligarchy, I would support that person as well.
But here’s the thing.
There is not one.
End of story.
Not Obama, for sure.
And if not him…who’s left?
Lay it on me. I’d be glad to hear that there’s another choice.
Anybody?
AG
It ain’t happening, AG. Hillary’s got to finish the Arab Spring first; otherwise, she’s got no foreign policy victories to crow about. And with the ACA Obama got done what she couldn’t do because of Daniel Patrick Monyihan. And the good parts of the bill occur first; the bad parts are deferred to 2014.
However, the more we say the Republicans won, the more the media says the Republicans won, the quicker Obama’s fingerprints disappear from this deal. And forcing the majority of the House GOP caucus to vote for it only helps that narrative. Think about Virginia Foxx, Sue Myrick, Patrick McHenry, and other nutcakes voting For this bill that President Obama will sign. A total of 171 of them both raised the debt and threatened Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid. And you have a bunch of CEOs scratching their heads about Republican priorities. And about the complicity of the US Chamber of Commerce.
I don’t think it is likely that the Democratic Party will destroy what little power it still has left once again with a bitter primary.
Also, stuff is shifting around. November 2012 is a long time from now. Even the political environment in December is a big unknown. McConnell says that his next act is to threaten the extension of the gas tax; that cuts off state and local road-building at the knees. And will not do anything about gas prices or gas consumption; it’s a pure giveaway to oil companies. Then there is the 2012 budget. And then what? The more they hound Obama, the more they own the policies that emerge.
Here’s thought experiment for you. Assume against evidence that President Obama wanted, deeply wanted, to govern like FDR and do the bold things required to transform the country the way progressives thought he was promising in 2008. Recognize that the corruption, economic philosophy, and learned helplessness of the Democrats in Congress is much like that that existed in the Hoover administration. So that the President, whoever he was, was in the position of implementing Hoover-like policies regardless. That’s a huge leap of imagination I know.
Now here’s the thought experiment. What would it take for a President caught in that sort of dysfunctional political system to pivot from the policies of Hoover to the policies of FDR? Saying it can’t be done is not an option in a thought experiment. If you were in the President’s position under these circumstances, how would you approach this problem?
Sorry.
I cannot “assume” that…as you say, the evidence does not support it…so the rest of the idea is useless.
Perhaps if he were another sort of negotiator…???
A Churchill-like ass kicker?
Maybe.
But he plainly is not.
So it goes.
Next?
AG
You put it so much better than I ever could, AG. I know we disagree and get mad at each other alot, but I have no hard feelings. It’s all politics.
Obama is lucky that all of this is happening now and not alot closer to elections because he looks like the ultimate loser pussy-boy right now.
Let’s hope for his sake that he Delivers the “Final Blow” to al Qaeda or something huge between now and election day. Because he really does look like a weak pushover pathetic girly-man right now. Worse than the fake legend of Jimmy Carter.
Perception is everything in politics and right now it’s not good for our boy Obama.
Barack, pull a rabbit out of that hat, please.
Maybe it’s more like this. (From Matt Taibbi at Rolling Stone)
This is closer to the truth of the matter than all of the blah-blah-blahing on all of the leftiness websites combined.
Obama made promises to the corporate world during 2007/2008. Obeisances, actually. Obamanances. Better ones than did Hillary Clinton. Bush II had so fucked up that electing another Ratpub was out of the question, and the corporatists chose Obama.
His biggest, most serious promise?
“I will not let anything happen that will be bad for business.”
Like say…ohhh, let’s say a debt default.
And there it is.
And there it is.
Watch.
He did his job, and he will be rewarded.
Watch.
AG
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Not discussing substance when the economy is in shambles …
"But I will not let myself be reduced to silence."Of course they don’t represent voters, AG. How could they? The only way that they know what the voters really want, as opposed to a For/Against spreadsheet, is through opinion polls. It’s not a political process, it’s a marketing process.
And in governing, just look how one-way the conversation is. You use their contact form;; your reply is a form letter totally unrelated to what you said. You call in about an issue; your reply is the same form letter. Your write snailmail; after the two months it takes to get through security and the 30 seconds it takes to generate one. Yep, another form letter. You go to a Town Hall, and the astro-turfers for every interest are out. You say your non-standard opinion and you are looked at as being off-script. Or shouted down.
How could they represent voters. The only voters they talk to at length are the ones with big checks in their hands. Even the ones who want to represent the voters are trapped in this broken system. And over time, they give up and just give in.
This being the Pond and all I’m gonna try to say this the nicest way I can think of: Dude, your Queen Hillary Fixation might be a sign of early dementia onset. Get a psych eval soon.
Actually believing that dividing the Dim-O-Rat party with a primary challenge to a sitting president could be somehow beneficial in the on-going war against Christianist/Corporate Fascism is quite simply insane.
Emotionally satisfying… well, hell yeah, I guess… maybe. But politically, rationally, reasonably, and tactically, ideas like this are part of THE problem.
Hey, you’re the guy who’s always screaming: NEWS STRIKE! And here ya are, buying the MSM headlines (“where it counts”) like they’re the truth. You can’t be saying, on the one hand, that there’s a reality out here AFK and then saying media perceptions/propaganda are what really matter. That’s mental dissonance, that’s a sour note in your song.
Knowing you, you’re going to flame away and accuse me–someone who hasn’t turned on my TV set more than a couple of times in the last few months–of being hypnotized. Or (horrors) I’m an Obamabot or an idiot or something. I’m not even going to look at your response to this comment so save yourself the effort.
As expected, not a single one of the people who spent the last week discussing how “Obama wants to shred the safety net” can answer.
Where the cuts Obama “put on the table?”
Why are those entitlements specifically protected from the trigger?
my 2cents from a fairly-long term commenter: one way we have kept discussion constructive around here is by just letting go of things like that. I can’t tell you how many comments, like yours I’m responding to (to which I am responding) I’ve deleted at the last minute, and I think the threads are the better for for my having deleted them. Not always easy to show restraint though, but better to focus on regaining the House in 2012 and Obama’s campaign. I just signed up to attend an Obama birthday party tomorrow.
Obama has been preparing to cut Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid ever since the State of the Union address, apparently. Just wait for it. He’ll cut them any minute now!
I guess I’m getting carried away here, we must focus on the Senate!