If you’ve been reading these pages, you know that I’ve been generally supportive of what the president has been trying to do about the fact that the Republicans are threatening to blow the global economy up on purpose. They obviously have the power to do that if they want to, and they’re unruly enough to pull it off even if their leaders don’t want them to. So, the president has the responsibility to prevent it from happening and he’s succeeded, at last, in getting an agreement that will save the global economy from sudden, epic, collapse.
Obviously, it would be a shame if the deal collapsed now. But, having said that, I would have no objection to the progressives in the House withholding their support and forcing Speaker Boehner to sweeten the deal. Now is the time to do that. They can’t be unreasonable and they have to be realistic about what can pass the Senate. But they ought to be able to take the gun away from the Republicans and hold it to Boehner’s head for a little while. What to ask for? Perhaps an extension of the payroll tax holiday. I think that’s gettable. An extension of unemployment insurance might he unattainable, but they should at least ask for it.
This deal is okay considering the circumstances, but it’s going to make it harder to get people back to work. Fighting for a little stimulus is definitely in order because Boehner can’t even come close to passing this bill without substantial Democratic support.
Heh, I posted something similar.
Also:
Should House Dems Support Debt Limit Deal?
The least they can do is withhold their votes, and make Boehner pass it with only republican votes.
The republicans got what they wanted. Let them take political ownership of it.
It won’t pass if they do that. I’d rather sweeten it and then pass it than blow up the global economy and take the blame for it, too.
I completely agree.
if there is a payroll tax and unemployment benefits, it would really make it balanced regarding the short term impact. I think it would help the “weak” meme to go away, it will offset any short-term economic negative effect (which in any case it turns out it will be small) of this nonsense.
we will only have to live with the effects of dealing with terrorists… well and austerity: unfortunately I think Obama believes the nonsense about austerity by 2014.
Problem is, I do not think any stimulus would be there, they need it to extend the tax cuts. So, I think this will be a failure of epic proportions.
A pleasure
Why? Seriously why? My biggest complaint with the President is that he allowed this to drag out too long. As you wrote a couple of days ago, we were always going to end up here. There were always only three options: Believe Republican threats that they would allow the country to default and cut an early deal; call their bluff and wait for them to concede at the last moment; or find out their crazy asses weren’t bluffing and allow the country to default.
The last two options are still available: If liberals truly believe this deal will do irrevocable harm to the country as they contend–eventhough they all fuckin’ embraced the same damn NO REVENUE plan when it was the Reid-McConnell plan only a day prior–and that they can strong-arm Republicans into concessions that the President couldn’t or wouldn’t, isnt’ it their moral duty to blow the deal up?
If they truly believe the President can save the country from default by simply invoking the 14th amendment, as everyone who got their law degree from the law school of Daily Kos knows is fact, then force him to do it by blowing up the deal.
They can prove once and for all they are willing to take the risks upon themselves and the country they are pushing the President to take–for the greater good of the country in the end.
If they are so certain this will work, then why not take the risk? Whose the public going to blame? I say let’s find out.
Boehner can’t pass it with only Republican votes. Everyone know it. I doubt it will even get any Blue Dog votes when all is said and done – the only Democratic votes it’s going to get are from folks in the “Responsibility Party” who are having their consciences shredded between signing off on a lousy deal vs. letting the economy collapse.
I’d like to see the Dems push for something to sweeten the deal but I’m betting it won’t happen. Pelosi is liberal, but she’s also part of the “Responsibility Party” and Boehner knows that if it comes down to it and her votes are needed to sign off on something that will prevent an economic collapse, she’ll end up doing it. She’s too responsible to not do it. And it isn’t like Boehner will be bluffing to take a hard line – if he says any sweeteners for the Dems will kill the deal among the GOP and make it something they won’t vote for, he’s probably telling the truth. And then it will be up to Pelosi to blink and sign off or decide that the government shutdown won’t be worse than signing off – and Pelosi is too responsible to do that.
that’s why I think the only thing that is gettable is probably the payroll tax holiday, because, you know, it’s a tax break.
Generally supportive of what the president… What a hoot!!1!!1 You’ve done everything but give this lying piece of crap a Dirty Sanchez on live TV.
You nasty, dirty, common mutha fucka!
The New Democrats should help Boehner whip his vote. They should pair their vote with a member of Boehner’s caucus. For example David Price should offer a Yes vote only if Virginia Foxx votes Yes. Mike McIntyre should pair with Sue Myrick. Jason Altimire should pair with Steve King. And so on.
Don’t give the hostage takers a free ride. Make them walk the plank for what they wanted.
Excellent idea. Not the first time I’ve wished the WH and Dems would listen to you. Unfortunately “a free ride” seems like the outcome devoutly to be wished for way too many Dems. A plank-walk would be so partisan, doncha know.
If it’s truly bipartisan, all hold hands while you jump off the cliff. Is that part of the Congressional club’s culture?
Don’t fire until you see the whites of their eyes, and I see the whites. We need to get our act together and form an army devoted to wiping these people off of the political map. I love TarHeel Dem’s idea about squeezing Boehner one vote for one vote. There is a lot of untapped political savvy on our side–it’s time to put it to good use.
There is indeed a lot of political savvy on our side. Too bad “untapped” is the way the Dems want to keep it.
Budget. I hope their analyis is accurate because if so that is a big win in my opinion. The Republicans can’t do some form of this again in 2 months. Also according to swamplan on $7B being cut from the FY2012 budget.
http://swampland.time.com/2011/08/01/five-things-for-liberals-to-like-in-the-debt-ceiling-deal/#ixzz
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Yep, looking at that article there are a couple of big wins for Dems – no budget fight and only $10bn in cuts in 2012 and 2013 and 1/2 of that is from Defense Dept.
Cutting $7bn from the economy in 2012 is not going to do serious damage to it. It won’t help, but with that little being cut, it won’t hurt either.
80-100 GOP House Reps voting no. It’s time to make extractions.
What I don’t get is why ANY democrat in either chamber is even considering voting for this. I wouldn’t give the rethgs one single vote. This isn’t just painful for us now, it has the potential for huge pain for years with the so-called trigger, the new gang of 12 literally running the country. Why don’t the dems stand toe to toe and insist on sweetening the deal? If not, Obama should invoke the 14th and be done with it. I really can’t believe the progressive and black caucuses would vote for this. Maybe some moderate dems could have their arms twisted and maybe some new folks could be whipped into voting for it but not the true progressives.
Because –
Now it may be the case that the Democrats in the House are willing to say that if the Republicans can’t muster up the votes to cover the bill with a majority of Republican votes then screw ’em and they walk away. But if it comes down to needing 60 or so votes the Democrats won’t be able to walk. That’s not who they are – if you want a group that’s the liberal mirror of the Tea Party politicians you’re going to need to look elsewhere. And probably spend half a century building it like the Birchers have done.
Besides 60 votes lets the Blue Dogs and the progressive caucuses both vote No without stopping the bill. Not to mention a few New Democrats as well.
Been wondering if there isn’t an element of this in the late hour that Pelosi has called for Progressive Caucus to meet.
Amazing.. according to Time the total number of spending cuts in 2012 in the first round is less than 4 billion. This is peanuts in the short term.
If you add unemployment benefit o payroll tax, this is a short-term draw (no stimulus but no cut) and a long-term disaster (40 R will block any bill to prevent the destruction of the safety net with the fillibustering of the debt ceiling and the “weak” Obama Destroyer of Medicare meme).
A pleasure
Markets are yawning. 1%-2% range.
what did I tell you?
You were right.
A pleasure
If I were a House Dem I would simply say “You won’t get my vote without new revenues.” Since the President and his allies have conceded on raising taxes, they wouldn’t get my vote. At this point, all Obama can do is say “I won’t cave next time.” But of course he will for various reasons which are or are not justifiable.
So I’d probably walk out of the video message.
It doesn’t look that bad on the surface, especially if Pelosi can wring some sweets out of the Reps, which should be possible. OTOH, the most evil stupid person in America, Grover Norquist, has endorsed the deal according to TPM. Anything he doesn’t whine about pretty much my definition has to be crawling with IEDs from Hell.
I suppose politically it could be a plus for Dems, in that a return to Dem rule could theoretically short circuit most of the damage, so even Obama-hater Dems should have the sense to work and turnout anyway next year. Unless we shoot ourselves again with lazy and undeveloped “3rd party” operations.